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Posted by u/sidcool 3 years ago
Ask HN: Again: The “I want to do everything but end up doing nothing” dilemma
This thread is from 2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9049208

I have bookmarked it and read it sometimes. Is there a 2022 version of the thread we want to create? Things surely have changed a lot since 2015.

DustinBrett · 3 years ago
One brick at a time has been my philosophy for a while and it's worked well. Making a bucket list of life, then turning that into to do lists, then doing the things 1 by 1.

- Travel around the world solo for years

- Find a wife, get married & have kids

- Build my dream website (https://dustinbrett.com/)

- Get a job in Big Tech as a self taught developer

It's been 10 years since I started living this way and it's worked out so far. Before living this way I had no real plans, just hopes.

keiferski · 3 years ago
Your commment reminded me of a quote from The Score, a 2001 film with Robert De Niro.

”You want my advice? Make a list of everything you want now and spend the next twenty five years getting it, slowly, piece by piece.”

AnIdiotOnTheNet · 3 years ago
Works great until what you want changes.
djkorchi · 3 years ago
Wow! It's amazing that I can run python in my browser using an IDE that feels like my daily driver. Even the little keyboard shortcuts, ctrl+} to indent a line of code worked as expected. I became so immersed I accidentally used alt+f4 to close a terminal window, and instead closed my browser!
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Thanks! That's great to hear it was able to trick you a bit. In fullscreen I use keyboard lock to bind the Windows/Meta key, I'll add ALT+F4 also so at least people in fullscreen can continue the illusion a little longer.
kilroy123 · 3 years ago
Are you me? We have the same goals and philosophy. I love it.

I'm on step 2. I did the solo travel thing for the past 8 years. Trying to find the wife.

I want a website exactly like that.

Congrats on your success!

DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Very cool! 8 years is pretty wild, I could see still being at it had I not found my wife in Santiago. I ended up in 50 countries over 4+ years before taking my Chilean wife back with me to Canada in 2015.

We need more desktop environment / "OS" websites out there. I feel like one day they could be something more as technology is moving fast in the worlds of WebAssembly/AR/VR, so who knows what my site might be in 20-30 years. If you want to check out the source code it's open source, https://github.com/DustinBrett/daedalOS.

Thanks!

joenot443 · 3 years ago
Okay I'll be the first to say it - having a working virtualized DOM and Dev Tools on your virtualized desktop themed site is pretty slick. Well done man!
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Thanks glad you liked it! Credit for Dev Tools goes to https://eruda.liriliri.io/
DontchaKnowit · 3 years ago
That website is wild. Thats cool as hell.
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Thanks glad you liked it! There other "desktop environments" in the browser (https://github.com/syxanash/awesome-web-desktops), but I tried my best to be one of the more accurate/functional ones.
alex_suzuki · 3 years ago
Umm, yeah… I think you got the website ticked off. Seriously awesome shit. Did you have it in mind more or less like this, or were there a couple of evolutions along the way?
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Haha thanks, much appreciated! The original idea came out of laziness and thinking it would be easier to just give users RDP access to my computer than actually design a cool site for my blog/pics/etc. I also give credit to Windows 10's UI for being so simplistic that I got inspired to thinking I could recreate it with CSS/HTML/JS. The code itself did have a bit of an evolution as my career in software development evolved and I moved from working with Angular to working in React. Over the last 4 years I've re-made the project 3 times, my latest iteration being named daedalOS and taking almost 2 years. I streamed most of it on my YouTube channel as I was making it and it's open source (https://github.com/DustinBrett/daedalOS) if you're interested.
newswasboring · 3 years ago
I tried doing this, but the sheer length of the list completely scared me shitless. It contributed to my endless feeling of not having enough time.
s1artibartfast · 3 years ago
Me too, but I think that it an important realization to internalize. My list would take many lifetimes to complete. This is an important part of being a self-aware person or some people call it "adulting". For me at least, it is easy to get scared and run away from it. The more productive solution is to:

Realize these are things that you get to try, not have to do

Prioritize a few items, ideally some short term and some long term.

Set aside the master list and work on your immediate tasks until they are complete you realize you dont want to complete them.

occasionally revisit the master list and update it.

DustinBrett · 3 years ago
It can indeed be dauting. I think once I had the list I tried to make a plan that allowed me to hit multiple goals in the long term. For example building my website in high detail was so that I could learn enough to get a Big Tech type of job. Traveling around the world at least partly was to find a wife and start a family. For me, I took all the items on my list and tried to turn that into a direction. I also prune/add to the list when I am feeling down and trying to think of what to look forward to.
eternalban · 3 years ago
Have a reasonable window of focus:

    [done chunk][done chunk]...[itemized list of expanded chunk]...[todo chunk]...
                                ^ now

RheingoldRiver · 3 years ago
I looked at your blog posts, and fyi they are alphabetized, not sorted by date - maybe you want to change the default sorting on that?
csours · 3 years ago
Am I still on the parody thread?
Kiro · 3 years ago
Right click -> Sort by -> Date modified.

And no, he should definitely not ruin the immersion and put some random default sorting in the blog folder. Bad suggestion.

DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Ya you are right. It's actually something I wanted to do and planned to, but ran into a bug that I basically have been putting off cause nobody ever mentioned this except you.

Thanks for pushing me on this!

The existing bug: https://github.com/DustinBrett/daedalOS/issues/70

arunsivadasan · 3 years ago
That is one badass website!
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Haha thanks! I'm glad to hear someone consider it badass. :-)
bheadmaster · 3 years ago
Very nice website.

I haven't played Commander Keen in almost a decade. Fascinating to see someone port it into a website.

DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Thanks glad you liked it! It's actually not a port but is running on DOS via https://js-dos.com/, same as Doom and Jazz Jackrabbit. I actually have my 8 favorite Shareware games on my website which can all be played.

https://dustinbrett.com/?app=FileExplorer&url=/Users/Public/...

lazide · 3 years ago
The challenge with that, in my experience, is not getting distracted along the way.
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Ya it helps to have some clear timelines to keep yourself honest. I noticed when I originally set out on my world travels that there were people who said they wanted to come that ended up being to distracted with life to take the leap. I keep my notes and reminders and goals very visible in my life through Google Keep and actual post it notes all over my walls. If I did have those reminders I would very likely do nothing and feel bad about it.
konfusinomicon · 3 years ago
skifree on your website, that is awesome! in middle school technology class me and my friend Alex found a hidden cheat in skifree that racked up ridiculous high scores. if you situate yourself directly below the lift chair and press up so you stay right behind it, your score just keeps going up and up and up. without a doubt I can tell you that our high scores survived until that equipment was replaced and im certain it dumbfounded every kid in that class who played skifree for years how scores like that were obtained.
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Glad you liked SkiFree. I actually got the EXE directly from the authors website as he gives it out for free now. It runs via http://www.boxedwine.org/ which can run all sorts of Windows EXE's. I have a similar childhood story of messing with old games, but mine was Doom which is why I gave it some credit on the desktop of my site.
alexslobodnik · 3 years ago
impressive site, impressive achievements

hats off

DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Thanks, much appreciated! I wish I could enjoy it more, but something about the attitude that got me here keeps me moving forward. I'm the kind of person that always needs to be doing something which I consider of value, or else I feel like I am wasting my life.
loloquwowndueo · 3 years ago
“Making a bucket list of life, then turning that into to do lists, then doing the things 1 by 1.”

Sounds a lot like Getting things Done method :)

DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Cool, I hadn't heard of that specific method possibly, but it seems self explanatory. I've always liked breaking down problems into smaller parts, so maybe that has helped me in several areas of life. My home office is full of walls of post it notes of plans for my life and my side projects.
TheAlchemist · 3 years ago
I hope you're proud of yourself - many people are now wasting serious amounts of time on your website.

Amazing work !

DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Haha thanks! I'm very proud to hear people wasting time on my site. It's a great way to waste time.
widowlark · 3 years ago
Amazing work on that website, sir.
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Thanks very much! It's taken years of work and I still try and work on it daily if I can. I like to imagine what it will be like in 20-30 years (assuming I'm alive).
photoGrant · 3 years ago
Your website is amazing, Dustin!!
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Thanks very much! Hearing people like it is a huge motivator to continue work on it. Even when I could say it's good enough. I want to get 1 more "wow" out of someone, somehow.
gitfan86 · 3 years ago
Cool Website!
wallfacer120 · 3 years ago
Jesus your personal site makes pretty much every developer site I've seen look like geocities. Hats off.
DustinBrett · 3 years ago
Thanks! I started with an Angelfire site back in 1998 and it's taken a long time to get to this. I always wanted to have a little miscellaneous site where people could come and play around a bit and check out some info about me if they wanted.

The idea to turn my website into a desktop environment came out of me trying to think how to present all my various content to users, and thinking how it would be easier if they could just RDP into my machine and see everything locally. Also inspiration from sites like http://www.windows93.net/, https://windows96.net/ & https://aaronos.dev/.

samspenc · 3 years ago
After visiting the website, I came here to post the same comment, and I see others have done the same. Kudos OP! Your website knocks the socks off any other website I've seen, really well done.
FerociousTimes · 3 years ago
The original topic that you cited is symptomatic of ineffectual autodidacticism (knowledge management) and analysis paralysis.

As for the former, I recommend taking notes diligently while studying/learning new topics and filing these notes appropriately where you make consulting the original material be it YT videos, online tutorials/posts, articles or books unnecessary since your notes are more than enough and are kept up-to-date accordingly; adding, removing or archiving as you deem necessary.

As for the latter, I struggled with this lately but I think that I made some progress to overcome this roadblock by making snap decisions on the spot by resorting to the old trick of "heads or tails" everytime I start to overthink a solution, and for more overwhelming alternatives, I built a custom randomizer that's fed a list of choices, and then spits the decision that I should make, and I comply with its wish enthusiastically every time.

I wouldn't say that this is the most efficient decision making process out there but for me action is always far better than inaction, and I don't think that perpetual state of deliberations and contemplation was any better as it hindered any progress to be made in the name of picking the most rational or efficient course of action to be taken which it didn't seem to emerge no matter how hard I tried to think a way out of it.

netmonk · 3 years ago
Let me applaud you. I’m 43 years ald autodidact. And it’s only last month I started to take some note in a notebook about my reading. I feel this simple thing missing in my life had a huge negative effect.

So many content I read, watch and my brain is never full of new things new topic new understanding but the biggest difficulty is recalling things when needed. Taking notes, summarising key points, and being able to reread it has a huge power to structure though and articulating idea between them. Also it’s avoid thing to stay in a vague memory in the brain. Also I use my notebook to write down any idea that cames to my mind anytime. Cause the brain is never stopping working, while I pop, while I walk the dog out, while I shop. Anytime I feel I have something interesting showing up I my mind I write it down.

Since almost 2 months. And I can say this simple act was the missing piece in my life.

tunap · 3 years ago
In a year or two, when that notebook has been filled and replaced with newer notebooks, make some time to go back and reread. It is wild sometimes, re-reading things I forgot I know/knew. Pretty sure this helps for recall, even if not, it is still nostalgically entertaining.

Edit: swapped 'enlightening' for 'entertaining'. Admittedly, could be both.

Nemi · 3 years ago
I just want to share my agreement on picking any path forward when confronted with analysis paralysis. I also suffer from this and have found that ANY choice is better than no choice in this situation, precisely because moving forward gives you more information. For me making a decision in the face of uncertainty was very uncomfortable because I always want to be perfect, but what I found is that the new information you get even when you pick the wrong path forward makes making the right decision after that point orders of magnitude easier. I have trained myself to get past the discomfort of making a less-than-perfect decision to “lube the rails”, so to speak, on making future decision easier.
b3morales · 3 years ago
Thirded, and I want to expand on your point about "picking the wrong path". For a lot of decisions (especially low-stakes ones) you don't even have to go down the path. Just having taken a decision, arbitrary as it is, gives you information.

Simple example, happens often: my partner and I want to go out to eat, but can't make up our minds where. Take the top two choices and flip a coin. Then just see how you each feel about that decision the coin made. Often it reveals a stronger preference than anyone was aware of. In that case, disregard the coin's choice. And if it doesn't, then just follow the coin's choice, since you're not losing anything by it.

t-3 · 3 years ago
> Things surely have changed a lot since 2015.

Not really. The only way to actually get things done is to do them, and that will never change. Planning and daydreaming is very satisfying and feels much easier than actually doing, but it's a dopamine trap. Plain old setting a schedule and applying self-discipline is the simplest way forward...

MonkeyClub · 3 years ago
> The only way to actually get things done is to do them, and that will never change.

This is the most blunt, real, and effective advice that can be given.

It is very important to emphasize that daydreaming of doing everything (and all at once), is a dopamine trap! No matter how long one mentally masturbates on a beautiful idea, it’s only through charting a course, breaking the problem down, and going through the motions and the steps to completion, humbly and dutifully, that will yield any results.

Another commenter, unfortunately downvoted, also said something important:

> Never tell others what you gonna do unles you have done it.

This is equally important advice, as it falls in the dopamine trap category.

Namely, refrain from satisfying the creative urge merely by talking about it. Instead, act first, and talk about the results.

Goes without saying, but let’s say it anyway: of course this doesn’t mean that you should hide like a mad scientist; communication is crucial in creation. Just don’t spend all your time talking about all the nice things you’d have done, if you weren’t spending your time just talking about them while leaving them undone.

Also, if the thing you want to make has some sort of personal meaning or cause, that’s a great impetus.

And don’t forget to fail, and don’t be afraid to fail, either. Try, err, try again, err elsewhere, keep moving, keep learning, keep making.

It’s good fun!

s1artibartfast · 3 years ago
>> Never tell others what you gonna do unless you have done it.

>This is equally important advice, as it falls in the dopamine trap category.

I strongly disagree. Or at least caution that there is a trap on the other extreme.

I spent a lot trying to be consistent, not committing or vocalizing a plan until I was sure. This was a big part of paralysis and stagnation for me.

like you said, dont be all talk, but dont be afraid to take a position, communicate a desire, and try things. This is necessary to make progress in an uncertain world.

Just be upfront with yourself and others if you change your position. You dont need to be consistent, it is more important to be honest.

dev_0 · 3 years ago
Never tell others what you gonna do unles you have done it.
fideloper · 3 years ago
Seven years ago I wasn’t married, didn’t have kids, nor a mortgage.

Now I have all of that.

Decisions are often made for me as I prioritize meeting the demands of higher minimum income and time spent with family and kids.

For better or for worse, growing older and gaining extra responsibilities acts as a forcing function. You need to prioritize more ruthlessly.

Choosing what to spend time is harder! The opportunity cost increases as you have less time available to spend on yourself. Choosing, therefore, becomes a bigger gamble.

If you’re relatively free in time, you should come up with a framework on making decisions on what to work with. It will depend on your goals - making a business, learning an instrument, learning skills to further your career - whatever. Make a goal and act in ways that furthers your goal.

josephferano · 3 years ago
Very relatable what you wrote. I became a digital nomad in my mid 30s. It was great at first, but then it got to the point where I engineered too much freedom in my life. The result was indeed paralyzing. Suffered some of the worst indecision in my life, in my mid 30s!

During covid times, I met my wife, we had a son together and now we're a digital nomad family. Having a family removed a whole range of choices that let me narrow into the obvious and not have to stress out about what to focus on. In a way it's been more liberating, to take on these constraints and responsibility. I know it sounds counterintuitive but I think Jocko got it right with "Discipline Equals Freedom".

sjducb · 3 years ago
In 3 months I'm going to take my family (wife and 3 year old) on a 6 month trip. My goal is to become a digital nomad family with "bases" where we have family and friends.

The rough plan is Bali, Japan, Sri Lanka, Kerala(India).

Do you have any advice or tips?

My biggest question is how do you meet other digital nomad families? I've done a lot of solo travel, and on the way I'd occasionally meet a traveling family, but they were pretty rare.

kirso · 3 years ago
Relatable. I don't have kids and lots of freedom in my life at least in the evenings outside of work. Somehow without the pressure, I tend to procrastinate on my decisions to take on the next chapter given several options available. That paralysis then turns into anxiety of not taking the choice and understanding how hurtful it is which just opens the vicious circle.
gopalv · 3 years ago
> Choosing what to spend time is harder!

I've realized that the boundaries have given me more discipline than when I had none.

Before kids, mortgage and a work visa, I would just pick something up and spend 4-5 weeks on a single thing before hitting a plateau. Then the going gets tough and there's a new thing which I could dig into right around the corner. Everything I did was at an unsustainable pace and it did broaden my horizons, but it was very much like dating.

First the commute ate up the first hobby, the kid ate up the next hobby, but then the pandemic kicked off the hobby mode all over again. I almost went back to the old approach of hobby-crazy, but I couldn't with two kids in the mix.

My rate of picking up new things have dropped to about 1.5 a year since 2020, but it's spread out onto a weekly schedule where I don't always have to drop the last thing I was doing to pick up something new. Also I no longer want to "get great" at things.

I still jump into new things without prioritization, but I no longer burn twice as bright for half as long in my hobbies.

Also the kids will drag you back in too - I'm going to go gokarting every weekend for the next year, because the alternative is sitting there in the bleachers with the phone.

sixo · 3 years ago
I've learn a few things about this problem over the years:

"Wanting to have done something" and "wanting to DO something" are very different. E.g. "I'd like to be able to play Claire de Lune on piano", vs the deep work of becoming intimately familiar with every single note and phrase of the piece. The latter necessarily involves getting obsessed for a while; you don't be able to do it if you don't find something deeply stimulating about the specific piano piece.

A lot of the things I've "wanted to do" I really just wanted to have done—I wanted to be able to do something, I wanted to know if I was capable of it. But I didn't really want to do it. I didn't really care. I just thought I was capable of all kinds of things and wanted to delight in verifying that. It had a sort of superficiality to it—my reasons for wanting all these things were not compelling enough to drive me to actually do them.

(Especially faced with the immediate rewards offered by video games—games and things like that change the "weights" on your internal reward system; you can feel this if you just think about the game, it feels like everything else shifts out of focus and the anticipation of the dopamine prize expands to fill your view.)

When you're in school it's relatively easy to do whatever you're told, and it doesn't really matter if you care about it. But accessing this sense of internally-generated energy that can drive you towards things that are important is a completely different skill, and you can't force it.

So either:

* figure out what you deeply, truly want to DO, and do that (which may be completely different from the things you enjoy imagining HAVING done)

* or, think deeply about what you want to "have done", and figure out why it excites you, and focus in on that, activate your curiosity for it, and let that draw you in

kirso · 3 years ago
This is a great comment. A good extrapolation of this on another example is:

- We all want to start a startup, with a caveat that the vast majority of us don't want to sacrifice our time, energy, mental and physical health to get to the an exponential outcome with extreme costs. But the daydreaming and the lure of successes we see around us makes us think its all there is.

- Perhaps instead, we can just focus on doing the craft that we actually enjoy doing as a process to get to mediocre (and sometimes extreme) outcomes since most just crave freedom of choice, not the $.

hnthrowaway0315 · 3 years ago
I have wanted to do a lot of things throughout my life since 15/16 but lack of discipline usually pulls me away from having a deep study on any of them. I'm now 40 and achieved nothing I have wanted. Everything I "achieved" I either wish I didn't achieve or I just completed them grudgingly.

I kinda give up and wish I lived in a prison that just forced me to achieve anything I have wanted to do. Maybe I'm not actually interested in all those but at least I get more trophies to show.

s1artibartfast · 3 years ago
Agreed.

At least for me "have done" goals are a trap. They are an endless list which will never be satisfied.

Figuring out what you "want to do" leads to immediate satisfaction and motivation leading to a fulfilling life.

travisgriggs · 3 years ago
I struggle with the recurring theme of “figure out what you want, and then go to work getting it for next N decades.”

25 year old me was stupid. He wanted things I don’t want anymore. I’m glad I wasn’t too effective at actually getting them.

mwint · 3 years ago
As a near-25yo myself, I’d be very interested to hear what these things were and why you don’t want them now.
Balgair · 3 years ago
Younger me wanted to do things like learn 10 languages, go to grad school, get really good at judo, etc.

Older me knows that languages aren't something you 'learn' as they are something you join, that 'grad school' is pointless and that your advisor is everything, that 'judo' is one of many paths to a better mind and friendships, etc.

I know that sounds trite and Iroh-y, but it ends up being true. It's not the 'accomplishment' but the people that matter, including yourself. Focusing on the brass ring get you the ring, and not much else. Focusing on others get you a filled life.

I know people that are enormously successful, yet are empty holes. I know of one that has both. It's not a pastiche or a fable, it's very true. I've seen a lot of people die and leave us. And I've been able to reflect on their lives. The best way, to my eyes thus far, is focusing on others. Lifting up other people, getting in with groups of good people, and helping out as you are able, those people seemed to me to have had the best lives.

"I sit in my cubicle, here on the motherworld. When I die, they will put my body in a box and dispose of it in the cold ground. And in all the million ages to come, I will never breathe, or laugh, or twitch again. So won't you run and play with me here among the teeming mass of humanity? The universe has spared us this moment."

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sid_Meier%27s_Alpha_Centauri

ghiculescu · 3 years ago
25 year old me wanted to go drinking with the boys every single night.

30 year old me doesn’t want that. Once every few weeks is enough for him.

AnIdiotOnTheNet · 3 years ago
Yeah, I agree. Younger me not only didn't know what he wanted, he didn't even realize that what you think you want and what will actually satisfy you can be drastically different things. Nearly 40yo me is still working on figuring out the latter.
strix_varius · 3 years ago
This was true for me as well, but I'm happy I started working towards those things anyway.

I wanted to abandon "normal life" and live on a sailboat, so I developed healthy financial habits and a career in order to achieve that. During that journey, I met my now-wife. Now, I realize that living in a walkable community filled with trees and friends is more fulfilling than the liveaboard fantasies of my youth... but I was able to leverage the real work I put in towards that original dream towards what I want today (a satisfying home, traveling with my family, etc).

HellDunkel · 3 years ago
Agree. The 25 year old me is too confused. I think it’s better to go back in time- the 10 year old may have a better compass.
christophilus · 3 years ago
Human nature doesn’t change all that much. That thread is still relevant. The secret ingredient is “No”.

I think it was Warren Buffett who said, “Really successful people say no to almost everything.”

That seems to have been true of successful people from every time period that I’ve read about.

q-base · 3 years ago
Really successful people get a lot of offers to say "no" to.

It was probably Derek Sivers, whom is mentioned elsewhere in this thread, that said: Early in your career, or when just starting something new - say "yes" to everything. You are collecting opportunities. Later once you have found or reached a sustainable level - then you can say "no" to everything.

hrgiger · 3 years ago
Certainly he is an exceptional programmer
pryelluw · 3 years ago
Not much has changed unless yourself did. Then fundamentals still stand:

- figure out what you want - figure out how to get it

First point is the hardest. Since most of us don’t really know what we want. We might describe an incomplete picture at best. Hardly a clear vision. So start with what you don’t want and go from there.

Second point is about organizational skills. Research, plan, execute, iterate. Rinse and repeat.

Don’t forget to be kind to yourself. The world is has enough without an enemy within.

prox · 3 years ago
Yeah, that sounds somewhat familiar. To add, I recently read this book :“love+work” by Marcus Buckingham. His insights are really good at what decades of research have taught him about loving your work (and how to get there)
pryelluw · 3 years ago
Love the work? No, not at all. Love one aspect, part, degree, radian, whatever of it. Just one thing. Don’t go for full on love. Cause you fall out of love and then what? Love a part of it and then you can keep it going for longer.