In one of his books, Gerald Weinberg said that his sister decided that it was time to give up divorce work when one of her clients (or the client's adversary) produced a list of goods for partition including a partly used container of dish soap under the sink. And my brother (a lawyer) told me of an attorney in the Mountain West who gave up divorce work as too stressful and went on to defending clients on capital charges.
I hope that the new app will help divorcing couples to work through the divorce with less pain on both sides. But is what every party thinks that he or she wants?
I just watched friends divorce. They brought a lot of unnecessary suffering in themselves. They didn’t want an app.
The number one thing to know about divorce with kids is that you lose control. They couldn’t stand that. The idea that the other person was 100% in charge of the kids.
They began making extremely vague allegations of how the other parent does unspecified “bad things” that need to be “reported.”
They eventually ended up believing their own propaganda and are convinced the other parent is abusing the kids on their days.
Once you understand child support payments, and thus the ability to be jailed and eventually charged with a felony and have your civil rights revoked, are tied to custody you'll understand part of the reason for the high stakes. If you end up with <50% custody, you have to keep a job that pays at least as good as your current one for 18 years, pray a judge believes you when you have trouble with work, or expect to end up in a jail cell with your license, property, passport, and civil rights revoked.
The only debtor's prison there is in the US is the one for people with <50% custody. Therefore if the other parent makes claims of abuse, it's imperative you have counterclaims to make sure the other parent is in just as bad light to make sure you won't be subject to imprisonment at the whim of a judge at any misfortune you have.
They also generally desire to harm the other party more than get assets for themselves. If just one part is willing to spend a dollar to make the other party lose a dollar, you’re gonna have a bad time.
friends of mine divorced recently. they were on good terms, but were getting egged on by their lawyers. the lawyers very much preferred a long drawn-out divorce. luckily my friends were on good terms and they discussed about what their lawyers were telling them. which were mostly falsehoods. stuff like “are you sure the other party hasn’t hidden funds from you?”. so i’m sure there are horrible divorces, but i’m also sure there are horrible lawyers as well.
My decision to at least exclude family law, beyond the divorce of my parents when I was a teenager being fairly ugly (although now with a larger sample size I've observed, relatively tame), was cemented by sitting through a whole session where the only property that needed to be split were a pair of season tickets to my school's men's college basketball team. While the school's team is quite good, we've never won a championship, at the time of the proceedings we've only been AP #1 for a week and then was almost knocked out of the tourney by a 16 seed, and in open court both parties acknowledged that they don't go to all of the home games and are seeing other season ticket holders, meaning that neither party needed to have both sets of tickets just to go watch the games live. The only advantage is that the seats would be together, but I've been to a lot of games of just about every North American professional sport (yes, including Arena Football) and seat swapping is ubiquitous whether the place is sold out or a quarter full. I've litigated my own case in small claims court and can honestly say that there were cases far more consequential there than the acrimonious splitting of a pair of basketball season tickets. It's not exactly kafkaesque - the criminal justice system fits the bill better - but it's at least... Dadaist in an un-self-aware way? I've appeared in undergraduate musicals written by my classmates that were less cringeworthy than that.
And I've practiced administrative law which, since they are not established under Article III of the Constitution, can be pretty cowboy and roughshod. I've also appeared in tribal court which seem to frequently take cues from TV courts. But they are not frivolous, not at all. Administrative hearings can and do determine the liberty of people every day. Same for tribal courts. There's something farcical about all 3 types of proceedings but family court just hits the perfect note of "legitimate", "important", and "farcical" to me, even though they are undoubtedly important. I can assure you that no immigration or NLRB hearings, the administrative courts in this country with teeth, sink into farce at a similar rate.
At one point there were some half-joking talks about finding an agreeable local tribe to partner with us to open a startup that allow same-day in-app divorces. Sadly even with introductions and approaching tribes in several states they all ended up saying no. There's a free idea for y'all, business-wise, if you can pull it off.
"I hope that the new app will help divorcing couples to work through the divorce with less pain on both sides."
It won't. The people who fight over used dish soap and other petty things will continue to have issues.
The other part is people having an incorrect perception of what they are entitled to in a divorce. The app or a lawyer will be able to show them how wrong that perception is, but it won't dull the pain.
What would actually help is forming a prenup while both parties are happy, before vengeance, winning, or whatever emerges from the failed marriage.
This. My ex-wife and I split amicably and without lawyers, it was a really easy process in my state. Not having any assets made things easier but we were mature enough to be adults about it all.
The problem isn't the divorce process, it's the people involved, either the parties to the divorce or their attorneys.
thank you - I hope so too. When people are separating and fighting over kids, that can get intense too. This tragic story has stuck me for a long timehttps://nypost.com/2021/11/26/texas-man-shoots-partners-ex-a.... If people understand their rights better, they can avoid taking things into their own hands.
In my experience, it’s less about knowledge and more about emotional regulation - lack of it is often why it happens, and why it is so hard to deal with overall.
We just launched Resolvy. It helps anyone going through a divorce understand what portion of the assets they can keep, and what portion is to be divided with their spouse. Deals with child support and alimony too. Currently only works in New York. Free to use. Can save Anyone going through a divorce in New York on legal fees.
Have you ever been through a divorce? Splitting assets equally is an after thought for most folks. They (or the one that filled) just want to get the thing over with, quickly, and a lawyer makes that happen.
I have not personally (still happily) married. My cofounder went through a divorce. He is a divorce lawyer (and his wife at the time a lawyer too). They divided everything smoothly - sounded like it was quite clinical and unemotional from what he told me.
Say if you brought assets into the relationship, a house, retirement fund fund, an inheritance. I’m sure you don’t want your ex-partner to get half of that. You’re entitled to keep a larger portion of it (as you get a credit for it). So our app helps people understand that better.
Some people who split everything equally may be giving more away than they should.
This is our version one. I have no idea how it will evolve.
But yes, if you want it done quickly - a lawyer is better at this stage.
This doesn’t sound right at all. The classic story is “he/she took me to the cleaners”, fighting over every possible asset, being forced to sell a house or property you don’t want to because the spouse demands half. I don’t know the frequency but it happens. My own parents fought hard over the house in particular and my mother ended up having to buy my father out at a huge loss to avoid selling it.
Harry Browne had a technique for splitting up assets: One partner does the splitting. And the other partner gets to choose who gets which pile.
(He also has a more elaborate one, where the partners do a virtual auction of all items among themselves, to account for cases where particular items are worth a lot more to one of them. I believe it’s in his book “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World”).
The first one is a very common technique among siblings too, let one of them split a cake and the other one gets to pick the piece. Applied game theory.
This is slightly tangential, but I went through a no-prenup divorce. My intentions were good in not wanting a pre-nup, but I’ve changed my advice for a reason that surprises a lot of people.
The reason I now advise folks to do a pre-nup is that when things are getting tense, everyone feeling insecure about their future actually increases the pressure and therefore the possibility of a divorce.
Write your pre-nup however you want, but save yourself the possibility of huge additional and unnecessary stress/uncertainty at a time when the relationship can least afford it.
I thought prenups were for couples where one or both parties are bringing assets into the divorce? Like, I'd consider one if I had any real assets or savings beyond my retirement accounts, but at the time I got married I didn't.
Marriage is first and foremost a legal and financial arrangement.
When you get married you have the option of writing the agreement between yourself and your partner (a prenup) or just accepting the one-size-fits-all government boiler plate.
Maybe you think there's nothing special about your situation. Maybe you think the government rules will work fine enough. Wouldn't you at least like someone to review them with both of your first so you know what the contract you're signing says? That still involves getting a prenup.
The prenup process also has a few additional advantages.
First, it forces transparency with finances. A stunning number of couples never fully disclose their financial state to each other. They don't know about that credit card debt their partner is holding or the student loans, or the jewelry they inherited from their grandmother worth $30k or whatever. Having those discussions about money with a neutral third party can actually help your relationship succeed and it provides insurance against not only surprises but also having to have those discussion while your relationship is failing which will be a much more stressful time.
Second, it forces conversations around expectations for the relationship, big life decisions, etc. I know many religions enforce pre-martial consoling that's similar but in today's secular world there's a good chance you might get married without having those discussions or without having a neutral third-party present to oversee the process.
In short, prenups are not about divorce, they're about the terms of the legal agreement you're signing.
In place I currently live even retirements savings are part of divorce split, and I don't think any prenup can affect that. They basically add them together and split 50:50, which is often more fair to women who skipped years of work and career building and stayed with kids. Earned before/during marriage doesn't matter in this case.
Islamic laws on such matters are "surprisingly" progressive - as one of the few religions that recognises and accepts divorce, it is the only one I know that also insists on a prenup which specifies a lump sum a prospective bride is entitled to if the couple divorce in future. (This is negotiated between the families before the marriage). Note that in Islamic laws a muslim man has implied responsibility to care for his child, divorced or not and whoever has custody, and thus this is not a part of the prenup.
Judaism also recognizes divorce. Among the abrahamic religions, it's only Christianity that traditionally insists on continuing the marriage once the participants want out.
If you intermingle finances or kids or property ownership then you have all the problems of a divorce except no legal framework to handle them in. Which makes for an even worse splitting process rather than a better one.
Then you have to pay more in taxes, having kids is more challenging, getting a mortgage becomes more expensive, immigration becomes impossible, and in some countries even travel becomes difficult.
That’s a unique take on it, so getting a prenup can help prevent divorce. This will be a good counter argument for when women argue that a prenup just means you’re eventually planning to get divorced.
The issue with this seems to me to be that if you're having an amicable divorce, you don't need to spend a lot on lawyers anyway, so this doesn't really help. If you're having a contentious divorce, the other side's going to get a lawyer, so you need to get a lawyer too.
There's some language on your site that suggests that this can help you understand how your various assets will be treated in a divorce, which could be good if it's contentious, but if you have a lot of assets you're still going to want a lawyer.
I guess what I'm wondering is who your target audience is, as well as how you'd plan to monetize this?
My ex and I split amicably and looked around for a facilitator to help with the paperwork. We hired a woman who seemed like she knew what she was doing, met with her, and as we had already been separated for years, we didn't think about it much and just sat back and waited. And waited. And waited. We'd call and she'd say she was waiting on the courts. Checking online would only get back some cryptic pending notice. After over a year and a half, we finally get a stern letter from the court, "Get your asses down here, the judge wants to speak to you idiots." (That's a summary, of course.)
What happened was the woman we hired had filled in the wrong county on all the forms. The court sent them back, with a note explaining the error. She submitted them again, untouched. They bounced the papers back to her. She did it twice more!!!
We had no idea until we're literally standing wide-eyed before the bench and the judge basically says (again, a summary), "Why are you two morons wasting the court's time? What the hell is wrong with you? Fix it. Or else."
Neither of us had been in court before, and my ex is from Spain and unfamiliar with American justice, so the experience was a tad intimidating, to say the least. There's a sense of seriousness in a court that really isn't something you regularly experience outside a funeral parlor. We immediately hired someone competent and were divorced within like 3 months.
So, I think this is actually a pretty useful service!
But that sounds like it has nothing to do with splitting assets, which is what this service is about. Your problem was with administrative legal tasks, and you hired someone who wasn't competent at them. You could still make the same mistake even if you were using this service.
We want to target people who are amicable (to start with). Definitely not anyone who is contentious. Hoping to expand to contentious divorces in the future of course (and help people actually negotiate without a lawyer). I would love the system to give prompts to people on whether they're asking for too much or if they're in the ballpark.
If you're amicable, there is still a lot of benefit in checking whether what you've agreed to divide with your spouse is fair from a legal perspective. You could be giving too much away. Eg. If you had a retirement/pension fund before the marriage, do you want to split that equally down the middle - no. You'll be entitled to keep a bigger slice of that (but you may have to give some away of course). Same with any other assets you had before the marriage, or inheritance you received during the marriage, or if you’ve used pre-marital funds to buy assets during the marriage. All these things could move it away from a 50/50 split.
Monetising will be the next step. We just want to figure out if this is useful for people first.
We have a few ideas, eg once Resolvy gives you the information (or prepares the divorce documents) we can advertise attorneys who can check everything for you to make sure it’s correct. We'll try keep it a free service for as long as we can (and figure out revenue models from businesses)
Thanks for the reply - this all makes sense, though I might considering changing the way you message it a bit. If you pitch it as a tool to check whether what you've already agreed upon is fair, then you potentially cause conflict if your assessment says the agreement isn't fair. Rather, it might be better as a starting point - if you don't know how to divide your assets, this tool will tell you what the law would default to, and then you can adjust from there.
Does this handle potential alimony? That’s the thing that scares me about getting divorced. A friend of mine confided in me that their partner hasn’t worked since they been married and is afraid that ending the relationship would put them in a deep alimony situation. Unfortunate side effect of living in a high cost are sure but I understand their frustration
It shouldn't be that scary. I've been married coming up on 10 years in January. I've been the sole income provider for a large majority of the marriage.
I wouldn't be able to make the income that I do without the contributions my wife has made to making my life easier, and in general keeping the more administrative aspects of life under control.
I'm in a marriage with her because I love her and respect her. Part of that is recognizing that it is our income. Part of that is recognizing that even if our marriage were to decay to the point of divorce that I would still care enough about her as a person to want her to be able to establish a new life.
I'd advise the friend of yours to create a relationship their spouse wants to be in. That's how you prevent the downsides of alimony.
I'd advise the friend of yours to create a relationship their spouse wants to be in
This just isn't always possible. Sometimes, folks change and want different things in life. For example: If my spouse suddenly decided he wanted children, that would end the relationship for me. I could not expect them to go without something they are finding critical to their happiness, but I'm not willing to bear children for someone else's feelings either.
And honestly, this is what being respectful in a relationship actually is.
But all that said, would one of us qualify for alimony or need some help getting on our feet? Yeah. One of us stays home, after all, and would need the assistance (though I'm not convinced it should be alimony, per se - not at our income level).
> I wouldn't be able to make the income that I do without the contributions my wife has made to making my life easier, and in general keeping the more administrative aspects of life under control.
If you were to divorce would you find it reasonable for her to get 50%?
Because I would seem as tho she gave up (willingly in support of you) a career for you. And after divorce wouldn’t be able to maintain any sort of lifestyle as a result of having no career or work experience?
One big problem with alimony is it's often calculated at time of divorce and never updated. Extreme cases are when the provider is at an unusual peak of earnings. Once they are past that peak and can't keep up payments, they are driven into bankruptcy (or even jail!). This is quite common with successful actors and sport stars.
On the other end, some divorces happen when the provider is in a low (e.g. depressed with an unusually low salary, or even jobless). So the other partner has to face almost zero alimony support. Even if the provider is later recovered and well off.
There are people exploiting both scenarios by timing the divorce when it's most convenient for them. This used to be a trope in magazines.
Yep it calculates alimony payments (called spousal maintenance in NY). It's based on income, length of relationship etc. In NY, you can actually negotiate out of alimony (eg trade it for some more assets).
Alimony varies by state. In California if it’s less than 5 years the higher earner will owe alimony for half the length of the marriage. Other states you have to be married X amount of years before it’s obligated.
Watching two of the most important people in my life gradually grow to resent each other to the point where they can't stand each other's presence was hard for me even as a thirty year old. I can't imagine what this experience would have done to me as a child, so I'm thankful that they stuck together for as long as they did.
In the end I was actually the one who suggested that they should separate, and I'm almost certain that if I didn't they'd still be together today. But in hindsight I'm glad I did, even though I felt immensely guilty about it at the time, and going through the whole separation process with them brought me to the brink of depression. They're a lot happier today than when they were together.
This whole experience has really left its scar on me. I shudder at even the thought of ever getting into any kind of romantic relationship myself, let alone marriage, due to fear of having to go through something like this myself, which statistically speaking is much more likely than I'm willing to risk. Even putting aside statistics, the truth is I see enough of both of them in myself that I can easily see myself playing either part in a similar situation down the line.
Thankfully I'm an introvert who actually enjoys being alone with my own thoughts, I have several close friends, money, hobbies, and had a fulfilling career up to this point and have recently embarked on a new journey bootstrapping my own business that deeply excites me. So I have little reasons to doubt that I can find plenty of enjoyment and fulfillment through other means in life.
I haven't told either of them though, because I know it will break their hearts. So far I've been evading the topic whenever it comes up, since at this stage in my life I have plenty of plausible excuses. I don't know how long I can keep this up though.
I know both of them want to see grandkids, and I still dread the day when I have to tell them it's probably never going to happen. The best I can do at that point is probably to make up some other reason why, instead of telling them the real reason: them.
I know they're not going to take it well regardless, and if we get into some heated argument I can totally see myself losing control and letting the real reason slip out, and that truly terrifies me to my core.
Thank you for reading up to this point. I'm not expecting anyone to hand me a solution, or for a solution to even exist. But just writing this out and putting it out there has been really cathartic for me, so I hope reading this might be helpful to someone else in some way.
I'm going to refrain myself from sharing my opinion (only you really know the full context of what you have gone through and how it makes you feel). But if I could champion one advice it would be this: please give psychotherapy a try. There are different types of psychotherapy and different kinds of professionals, but if you find one that clicks with you it could be life changing.
I know it's expensive (depending where you live) and it's more often than not a painful process. But for many people that stick with it, getting to go to a good psychologist/psychiatrist is like having your mind, feelings and ego dumped and analysed by a thorough debugger.
Part of the reason the divorce rate is so high is because people go into it without even knowing themselves who they are.
If you don't know who you are, how can you make a reasonable assessment about what others bring to the table ?
If you can't answer the question honestly:
- What are your flaws
- What are your strengths
- What scares you
- What has possibly scarred you
- What is unacceptable to you
- What is mandatory for you
- Can you answer the same, for someone you love?
You are flipping a coin with regards to marriage.
Helpful hack:
- Don't marry, not right away. Have a relationship and live with someone you really respect. Put your cards on the table. You aren't going to marry, but you will commit for life. For anyone to stay, they need to be on board with being ok with living on a continuous "performance review". That includes you. That is a huge win, as it signals a maturity level for both parties and the ability to accept to being vulnerable. Yes, there may be some truly unique and valuable individuals you miss out that have very tough requirements from relationships (for example, no living together without marriage), but we are assuming those are diamonds and you aren't going to randomly be dating them.
Give time (~3yrs?) in a cohabitating arrangement. This is important because if you truly know yourself, you must also learn to know the other person too. This is only possible with time, especially for someone not very experienced with relationships. To live with someone is critical to really know them... not because they may leave dirty dishes on the sink, or whether they are picking up laundry - but because cohabitating is a truth-teller. You can't put a facade while living with someone else. You can't pretend to be interested in someone as a person, and its impossible to hide insecurities from someone you are spending time, 24/7, for several years.
Learn to accept that every relationship is an investment. Know yourself. Be mature and gracious in defeat. But be hopeful and optimistic of the future.
Not every relationship will work out. Not every person is suited for a loving relationship, and even fewer people are compatible to each other. Yet, its hard to love a cynic.
Take ego out, be vulnerable and find people that accept you for who you are.
My father recently died and one of the strangest emotions that I felt after his death was not of sadness but of relief.
He wasn't old or in pain. It wasn't relief for him. His death was an accident and I'm sad about that for his wife and everyone else including me.
The relief I felt was from expectations lifting. It's made me do a lot of thinking about how I live my life, and the implicit choices I've made due to expectations on me. Most of which I didn't really see as external forces for the longest time.
Whilst it's easy to say, but hard to do, I would suggest you just live life how you want, your parents are adults and are responsible for their emotions.
Again it's easy to say this. Hard to do it.
> I haven't told either of them though, because I know it will break their hearts.
Are you sure you are doing what's best in this situation and not just shying away from potential confrontation with them? Projecting their reaction which can be far from reality? In my 40+ years of experience with this thing called life I've always ended up with same conclusion - truth deserves to be told, even if its not pleasant. Also, truth will always find its way.
Some people will go to ridiculous lengths and suffering to avoid confrontation with truth, because 1000 small cuts seem less hurtful than 1 larger one and uncertainty it brings. Showing a proper respect and telling hard truth is appreciated by many folks though. Realizing your own child was bullshitting you for decades because of avoiding telling the truth which is anyway inescapable may hurt much more than actual topic in discussion.
> I know both of them want to see grandkids, and I still dread the day when I have to tell them it's probably never going to happen. The best I can do at that point is probably to make up some other reason why, instead of telling them the real reason: them.
I’m sorry to hear you had to experience your family breaking.
Lying to them is a disservice - breaking a marriage has always been taboo for these consequences - risking ruining the childrens future families. Our actions ripple through the generations. The truth may make them feel agony at their realisation of their actions consequences, but without truth, we can not navigate in this world.
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I hope that the new app will help divorcing couples to work through the divorce with less pain on both sides. But is what every party thinks that he or she wants?
The number one thing to know about divorce with kids is that you lose control. They couldn’t stand that. The idea that the other person was 100% in charge of the kids.
They began making extremely vague allegations of how the other parent does unspecified “bad things” that need to be “reported.”
They eventually ended up believing their own propaganda and are convinced the other parent is abusing the kids on their days.
It’s a total mess.
The only debtor's prison there is in the US is the one for people with <50% custody. Therefore if the other parent makes claims of abuse, it's imperative you have counterclaims to make sure the other parent is in just as bad light to make sure you won't be subject to imprisonment at the whim of a judge at any misfortune you have.
And I've practiced administrative law which, since they are not established under Article III of the Constitution, can be pretty cowboy and roughshod. I've also appeared in tribal court which seem to frequently take cues from TV courts. But they are not frivolous, not at all. Administrative hearings can and do determine the liberty of people every day. Same for tribal courts. There's something farcical about all 3 types of proceedings but family court just hits the perfect note of "legitimate", "important", and "farcical" to me, even though they are undoubtedly important. I can assure you that no immigration or NLRB hearings, the administrative courts in this country with teeth, sink into farce at a similar rate.
At one point there were some half-joking talks about finding an agreeable local tribe to partner with us to open a startup that allow same-day in-app divorces. Sadly even with introductions and approaching tribes in several states they all ended up saying no. There's a free idea for y'all, business-wise, if you can pull it off.
It won't. The people who fight over used dish soap and other petty things will continue to have issues.
The other part is people having an incorrect perception of what they are entitled to in a divorce. The app or a lawyer will be able to show them how wrong that perception is, but it won't dull the pain.
What would actually help is forming a prenup while both parties are happy, before vengeance, winning, or whatever emerges from the failed marriage.
The problem isn't the divorce process, it's the people involved, either the parties to the divorce or their attorneys.
Insert a gun into a frustrating situation for no reason. What an a-hole.
I don't live in New York and wish to never have to use a similar service but Goodluck nonetheless!
Dead Comment
Say if you brought assets into the relationship, a house, retirement fund fund, an inheritance. I’m sure you don’t want your ex-partner to get half of that. You’re entitled to keep a larger portion of it (as you get a credit for it). So our app helps people understand that better.
Some people who split everything equally may be giving more away than they should.
This is our version one. I have no idea how it will evolve.
But yes, if you want it done quickly - a lawyer is better at this stage.
May I ask if you went through a divorce?
(He also has a more elaborate one, where the partners do a virtual auction of all items among themselves, to account for cases where particular items are worth a lot more to one of them. I believe it’s in his book “How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World”).
^[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_cake-cutting
The reason I now advise folks to do a pre-nup is that when things are getting tense, everyone feeling insecure about their future actually increases the pressure and therefore the possibility of a divorce.
Write your pre-nup however you want, but save yourself the possibility of huge additional and unnecessary stress/uncertainty at a time when the relationship can least afford it.
When you get married you have the option of writing the agreement between yourself and your partner (a prenup) or just accepting the one-size-fits-all government boiler plate.
Maybe you think there's nothing special about your situation. Maybe you think the government rules will work fine enough. Wouldn't you at least like someone to review them with both of your first so you know what the contract you're signing says? That still involves getting a prenup.
The prenup process also has a few additional advantages.
First, it forces transparency with finances. A stunning number of couples never fully disclose their financial state to each other. They don't know about that credit card debt their partner is holding or the student loans, or the jewelry they inherited from their grandmother worth $30k or whatever. Having those discussions about money with a neutral third party can actually help your relationship succeed and it provides insurance against not only surprises but also having to have those discussion while your relationship is failing which will be a much more stressful time.
Second, it forces conversations around expectations for the relationship, big life decisions, etc. I know many religions enforce pre-martial consoling that's similar but in today's secular world there's a good chance you might get married without having those discussions or without having a neutral third-party present to oversee the process.
In short, prenups are not about divorce, they're about the terms of the legal agreement you're signing.
Absent a disparity in the pre-marriage estates, I doubt anyone would have the inclination to push the issue.
I always find it kind of counter-intuitive that the Western far-right routinely complains about “creeping Sharia Law”.
If those folks red the Koran they’d agree with it!
We should all strictly optimize for maximum utilization of resources.
Beep boop.
Money comes and goes. It can be a great help, but it behooves anyone who has any to prevent it becoming a hinderance on the road to happiness.
There's some language on your site that suggests that this can help you understand how your various assets will be treated in a divorce, which could be good if it's contentious, but if you have a lot of assets you're still going to want a lawyer.
I guess what I'm wondering is who your target audience is, as well as how you'd plan to monetize this?
My ex and I split amicably and looked around for a facilitator to help with the paperwork. We hired a woman who seemed like she knew what she was doing, met with her, and as we had already been separated for years, we didn't think about it much and just sat back and waited. And waited. And waited. We'd call and she'd say she was waiting on the courts. Checking online would only get back some cryptic pending notice. After over a year and a half, we finally get a stern letter from the court, "Get your asses down here, the judge wants to speak to you idiots." (That's a summary, of course.)
What happened was the woman we hired had filled in the wrong county on all the forms. The court sent them back, with a note explaining the error. She submitted them again, untouched. They bounced the papers back to her. She did it twice more!!!
We had no idea until we're literally standing wide-eyed before the bench and the judge basically says (again, a summary), "Why are you two morons wasting the court's time? What the hell is wrong with you? Fix it. Or else."
Neither of us had been in court before, and my ex is from Spain and unfamiliar with American justice, so the experience was a tad intimidating, to say the least. There's a sense of seriousness in a court that really isn't something you regularly experience outside a funeral parlor. We immediately hired someone competent and were divorced within like 3 months.
So, I think this is actually a pretty useful service!
If you're amicable, there is still a lot of benefit in checking whether what you've agreed to divide with your spouse is fair from a legal perspective. You could be giving too much away. Eg. If you had a retirement/pension fund before the marriage, do you want to split that equally down the middle - no. You'll be entitled to keep a bigger slice of that (but you may have to give some away of course). Same with any other assets you had before the marriage, or inheritance you received during the marriage, or if you’ve used pre-marital funds to buy assets during the marriage. All these things could move it away from a 50/50 split.
Monetising will be the next step. We just want to figure out if this is useful for people first.
We have a few ideas, eg once Resolvy gives you the information (or prepares the divorce documents) we can advertise attorneys who can check everything for you to make sure it’s correct. We'll try keep it a free service for as long as we can (and figure out revenue models from businesses)
Just two cents from a random guy on the internet!
I wouldn't be able to make the income that I do without the contributions my wife has made to making my life easier, and in general keeping the more administrative aspects of life under control.
I'm in a marriage with her because I love her and respect her. Part of that is recognizing that it is our income. Part of that is recognizing that even if our marriage were to decay to the point of divorce that I would still care enough about her as a person to want her to be able to establish a new life.
I'd advise the friend of yours to create a relationship their spouse wants to be in. That's how you prevent the downsides of alimony.
This just isn't always possible. Sometimes, folks change and want different things in life. For example: If my spouse suddenly decided he wanted children, that would end the relationship for me. I could not expect them to go without something they are finding critical to their happiness, but I'm not willing to bear children for someone else's feelings either.
And honestly, this is what being respectful in a relationship actually is.
But all that said, would one of us qualify for alimony or need some help getting on our feet? Yeah. One of us stays home, after all, and would need the assistance (though I'm not convinced it should be alimony, per se - not at our income level).
> I wouldn't be able to make the income that I do without the contributions my wife has made to making my life easier, and in general keeping the more administrative aspects of life under control.
If you were to divorce would you find it reasonable for her to get 50%?
Because I would seem as tho she gave up (willingly in support of you) a career for you. And after divorce wouldn’t be able to maintain any sort of lifestyle as a result of having no career or work experience?
This is simply not true. Your spouse has free will, and can use that free will to make marriage-ending decisions, no matter what you do.
Congrats on your loving and supportive marriage, but that is not always the case.
I imagine it's a lot more scary for people in the latter group.
If that doesn't happen, yes alimony can get very, very expensive.
On the other end, some divorces happen when the provider is in a low (e.g. depressed with an unusually low salary, or even jobless). So the other partner has to face almost zero alimony support. Even if the provider is later recovered and well off.
There are people exploiting both scenarios by timing the divorce when it's most convenient for them. This used to be a trope in magazines.
Watching two of the most important people in my life gradually grow to resent each other to the point where they can't stand each other's presence was hard for me even as a thirty year old. I can't imagine what this experience would have done to me as a child, so I'm thankful that they stuck together for as long as they did.
In the end I was actually the one who suggested that they should separate, and I'm almost certain that if I didn't they'd still be together today. But in hindsight I'm glad I did, even though I felt immensely guilty about it at the time, and going through the whole separation process with them brought me to the brink of depression. They're a lot happier today than when they were together.
This whole experience has really left its scar on me. I shudder at even the thought of ever getting into any kind of romantic relationship myself, let alone marriage, due to fear of having to go through something like this myself, which statistically speaking is much more likely than I'm willing to risk. Even putting aside statistics, the truth is I see enough of both of them in myself that I can easily see myself playing either part in a similar situation down the line.
Thankfully I'm an introvert who actually enjoys being alone with my own thoughts, I have several close friends, money, hobbies, and had a fulfilling career up to this point and have recently embarked on a new journey bootstrapping my own business that deeply excites me. So I have little reasons to doubt that I can find plenty of enjoyment and fulfillment through other means in life.
I haven't told either of them though, because I know it will break their hearts. So far I've been evading the topic whenever it comes up, since at this stage in my life I have plenty of plausible excuses. I don't know how long I can keep this up though.
I know both of them want to see grandkids, and I still dread the day when I have to tell them it's probably never going to happen. The best I can do at that point is probably to make up some other reason why, instead of telling them the real reason: them.
I know they're not going to take it well regardless, and if we get into some heated argument I can totally see myself losing control and letting the real reason slip out, and that truly terrifies me to my core.
Thank you for reading up to this point. I'm not expecting anyone to hand me a solution, or for a solution to even exist. But just writing this out and putting it out there has been really cathartic for me, so I hope reading this might be helpful to someone else in some way.
I'm going to refrain myself from sharing my opinion (only you really know the full context of what you have gone through and how it makes you feel). But if I could champion one advice it would be this: please give psychotherapy a try. There are different types of psychotherapy and different kinds of professionals, but if you find one that clicks with you it could be life changing.
I know it's expensive (depending where you live) and it's more often than not a painful process. But for many people that stick with it, getting to go to a good psychologist/psychiatrist is like having your mind, feelings and ego dumped and analysed by a thorough debugger.
If you don't know who you are, how can you make a reasonable assessment about what others bring to the table ?
If you can't answer the question honestly: - What are your flaws - What are your strengths - What scares you - What has possibly scarred you - What is unacceptable to you - What is mandatory for you - Can you answer the same, for someone you love?
You are flipping a coin with regards to marriage.
Helpful hack: - Don't marry, not right away. Have a relationship and live with someone you really respect. Put your cards on the table. You aren't going to marry, but you will commit for life. For anyone to stay, they need to be on board with being ok with living on a continuous "performance review". That includes you. That is a huge win, as it signals a maturity level for both parties and the ability to accept to being vulnerable. Yes, there may be some truly unique and valuable individuals you miss out that have very tough requirements from relationships (for example, no living together without marriage), but we are assuming those are diamonds and you aren't going to randomly be dating them.
Give time (~3yrs?) in a cohabitating arrangement. This is important because if you truly know yourself, you must also learn to know the other person too. This is only possible with time, especially for someone not very experienced with relationships. To live with someone is critical to really know them... not because they may leave dirty dishes on the sink, or whether they are picking up laundry - but because cohabitating is a truth-teller. You can't put a facade while living with someone else. You can't pretend to be interested in someone as a person, and its impossible to hide insecurities from someone you are spending time, 24/7, for several years.
Learn to accept that every relationship is an investment. Know yourself. Be mature and gracious in defeat. But be hopeful and optimistic of the future.
Not every relationship will work out. Not every person is suited for a loving relationship, and even fewer people are compatible to each other. Yet, its hard to love a cynic.
Take ego out, be vulnerable and find people that accept you for who you are.
Aren't there studies showing people who marry after to moving in together divorce a lot more?
I guess there could be lurking variables?
The relief I felt was from expectations lifting. It's made me do a lot of thinking about how I live my life, and the implicit choices I've made due to expectations on me. Most of which I didn't really see as external forces for the longest time.
Whilst it's easy to say, but hard to do, I would suggest you just live life how you want, your parents are adults and are responsible for their emotions. Again it's easy to say this. Hard to do it.
Are you sure you are doing what's best in this situation and not just shying away from potential confrontation with them? Projecting their reaction which can be far from reality? In my 40+ years of experience with this thing called life I've always ended up with same conclusion - truth deserves to be told, even if its not pleasant. Also, truth will always find its way.
Some people will go to ridiculous lengths and suffering to avoid confrontation with truth, because 1000 small cuts seem less hurtful than 1 larger one and uncertainty it brings. Showing a proper respect and telling hard truth is appreciated by many folks though. Realizing your own child was bullshitting you for decades because of avoiding telling the truth which is anyway inescapable may hurt much more than actual topic in discussion.
I’m sorry to hear you had to experience your family breaking.
Lying to them is a disservice - breaking a marriage has always been taboo for these consequences - risking ruining the childrens future families. Our actions ripple through the generations. The truth may make them feel agony at their realisation of their actions consequences, but without truth, we can not navigate in this world.
https://www.cnn.com/style/amp/barbara-iweins-photo-series-ka...