Readit News logoReadit News
pyuser583 commented on Should the web platform adopt XSLT 3.0?   github.com/whatwg/html/is... · Posted by u/protomolecool
SoftTalker · 2 days ago
XML was a great idea but the markup was tedious and verbose.

JSON is too simplistic.

Something built from s-expressions would probably have been ideal but we've known that for 70 years.

pyuser583 · a day ago
What would that look like?
pyuser583 commented on Should the web platform adopt XSLT 3.0?   github.com/whatwg/html/is... · Posted by u/protomolecool
themafia · 2 days ago
The simplest explanation is that attributes were a mistake. They add another layer to the structure and create confusion as to where data is best stored within it.

XML without attributes probably would have seen wide and ready adoption.

pyuser583 · a day ago
I see it as the opposite. Attributes weren’t used enough. The result was unnecessarily nested code.

“Keep things flat” is current good advice in terms of usability. That means favor attributes over children.

pyuser583 commented on Should the web platform adopt XSLT 3.0?   github.com/whatwg/html/is... · Posted by u/protomolecool
mikepurvis · 2 days ago
HTML was conceived as a language for marking up a document that was primarily text; XML took the tags and attributes from that and tried to turn it into a data serialization and exchange format. But it was never really well suited to that, and it's obvious from looking XML-RPC or SOAP payloads that there were fundamental gaps in the ability of XML to encode type and structure information inline:

    <?xml version="1.0"?>
    <methodCall>
        <methodName>math.add</methodName>
        <params>
            <param>
                <value><int>5</int></value>
            </param>
            <param>
                <value><int>7</int></value>
            </param>
        </params>
    </methodCall>
Compared to this, JSON had string and number types built in:

    {
        "jsonrpc": "2.0",
        "method": "math.add",
        "params": [5, 7],
        "id": 1
    }
I don't think this is the only factor, but I think XML had a lot of this kind of cognitive overhead built in, and that gave it a lot of friction when stacked up against JSON and later yaml... and when it came to communicating with a SPA, it was hard to compete with JS being able to natively eval the payload responses.

pyuser583 · a day ago
Yeah this is the issue. I spent tons of time writing code that would consume xml and turn it into something useful.

It’s a mediocre data storage language.

pyuser583 commented on Should the web platform adopt XSLT 3.0?   github.com/whatwg/html/is... · Posted by u/protomolecool
Aurornis · 2 days ago
I think the simplest explanation is that developers used it and did not like it.

The pro-XML narrative always sounded like what you wrote, as far back as I can remember: The XML people would tell you it was beautiful and perfect and better than everything as long as everyone would just do everything perfectly right at every step. Then you got into the real world and it was frustrating to deal with on every level. The realities of real-world development meant that the picture-perfect XML universe we were promised wasn't practical.

I don't understand your comparison to containerization. That feels like apples and oragnes.

pyuser583 · a day ago
Regarding containerization, XML wouldn’t just be a noun, but a verb (like in XSLT). You would define your remote procedures in XML.

Imagine if instead of the current Dockerfile format, we used XML, which was dynamically generated from lists of packages, and filtered and updates according to RSS feeds describing CSVs and package updates.

I’m not saying this is anything other than strange fantasy. And not a particularly nice fantasy either.

XML failed because it forced devs to spend tons of unproductive time on it

pyuser583 commented on Should the web platform adopt XSLT 3.0?   github.com/whatwg/html/is... · Posted by u/protomolecool
pyuser583 · 2 days ago
There is a fascinating alternative universe where XML standards actually took hold. I've seen it in bits and pieces. It would have been beautiful.

But that universe did not happen.

Lots of "modern" tooling works around the need. For example, in a world of Docker and Kubernetes, are those standards really that important?

I would blame the adoption of containerization for the lack of interest in XML standards, but by the time containerization happened, XML had been all but abandoned.

Maybe it was the adoption of Python, whose JSON libraries are much nicer than XML. Maybe it was the fact that so few XML specs every became mainstream.

In terms of effort, there is a huge tail in XML, where you're trying to get things working, but getting little in return for that effort. XLST is supposed to be the glue that keeps it all together, but there is no "it" to keep together.

XML also does not play very nice with streaming technologies.

I suspect that eventually XML will make a comeback. Or maybe another SGML dialect. But that time is not now.

pyuser583 commented on Llama-Scan: Convert PDFs to Text W Local LLMs   github.com/ngafar/llama-s... · Posted by u/nawazgafar
pyuser583 · 6 days ago
It seems we've entered the "AI is local" phase.
pyuser583 commented on Show HN: NextDNS Adds "Bypass Age Verification"    · Posted by u/nextdns
pjc50 · 7 days ago
Making your own filter choices should not be referred to as "censorship". Censorship is when the choice is taken away.
pyuser583 · 6 days ago
I'm taking the choice away from my kids.
pyuser583 commented on Show HN: NextDNS Adds "Bypass Age Verification"    · Posted by u/nextdns
pyuser583 · 7 days ago
I'm a parent, and I try to keep my kids from the Internet in general, but adult parts in particular.

VPN's are great for this. Just install the VPN, have it block access to adult sites, and have it alert me of any suspicious attempts.

It's bewildering how VPN companies have branded their technology as "anti-censorship" and "privacy-focused." VPN's are a censor's best friend.

DNS services are taking the opposite approach: they start by having a censorship feature (blocking malware, adult ads, etc), and now are adding anti-censorship options.

There's nothing about connecting to a different network, or using a different DNS provider, that is anti-censorship.

pyuser583 commented on US national debt reaches a record $37T, the Treasury Department reports   apnews.com/article/treasu... · Posted by u/atombender
lm28469 · 11 days ago
It reminds me of the early days of the russian invasion when everyone was mocking russia for having the same gdp as spain. As it turns out having a small gdp doesn't mean much as long aas you have industries and resources.

France includes illegal drug traffic and illegal prostitution in its gdp too

pyuser583 · 10 days ago
Most countries include criminal enterprises when determining economic statistics. It's important, because economic crises can begin in shadow industries.
pyuser583 commented on Wikipedia loses challenge against Online Safety Act   bbc.com/news/articles/cjr... · Posted by u/phlummox
mathiaspoint · 13 days ago
A British constitution makes no sense, power is delegated from the king not from the member states like in the US or Canada. The only way the UK could end up with a constitution that's meaningful and not performative would be after a civil war.
pyuser583 · 12 days ago
You mean like a civil war between the Crown and Parliament?

u/pyuser583

KarmaCake day4884April 22, 2019View Original