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Posted by u/lawgimenez 4 years ago
Ask HN: What news subscription is worth it?
My NYTimes subscription is ending next month and I am looking for another news subscription. What news publication is it worthwhile to subscribe to? I’ve read horror stories about dark patterns in cancellation so that should also factor in.

I’m not sure if anyone noticed but NYTimes’ quality has gone downhill for the past 2-3 years and why is there no dark mode on the app? WSJ looks good but there are issues with cancellation.

Edit: I am from Southeast Asia and got lots of family and relatives in the USA, so the obvious interest in Western and EU culture and politics.

rootusrootus · 4 years ago
I once subscribed to NYT. Canceling required a phone call, and the guy laughed out loud at me when I refused what amounted to a nearly free 6 month extension. Made me so mad, they'll never have me as a customer again.

I also decided I would never buy another subscription to a news site that also has advertising. In my perception, ads seem to be predictive of low quality journalism.

Most recently I've had an Economist subscription. I like them. They don't make canceling as easy as subscribing, and I do hold that against them, though they aren't as terrible as NYT.

But honestly, I let that subscription lapse and I don't buy any news right now. I actively avoid it, in fact. My sanity and happiness needed a break from the drip-drip-drip of negative stressful world events that I have exactly zero control over.

juice_bus · 4 years ago
I had a similar ordeal cancelling The Economist subscription in 2020.

I had to call someone (offshore) who tried to retain me with months free, and then started trying to push emails (???) which I explicitly said no to... and then they turned them all on anyway when I cancelled. I don't have a way to turn them off so they go straight to spam now ("unsubscribe" doesn't work, and I don't care enough to escalate any further)

Never subscribing for news again - they're killing themselves at this point.

the_biot · 4 years ago
Yup, The Economist are terrible spammers. I tried many many times to get them to stop sending me all that garbage about their events and whatever, and they just don't do it. Fortunately I have an email address custom to them, so I just deleted it. Now when my subscription lapses I won't get the notifications.

Here's the thing about The Economist: everything they do that is not related to journalism is a complete shitshow. Subscriptions, phone app, spamming, just awful.

Veen · 4 years ago
It's a little easier now. They have a chat interface. When I cancelled recently I included "I'm not interested in offers for reduced price subscriptions" in my first message. They didn't push it and my subscription was canceled 5 minutes or so.
cgriswald · 4 years ago
I wonder if it is still possible to subscribe by mail. I originally subscribed that way awhile ago, but within the last couple of years let my subscription lapse and that was the end of it (other than the frequent letters trying to get me to re-subscribe).
sshine · 4 years ago
> My sanity and happiness needed a break from the drip-drip-drip of negative stressful world events that I have exactly zero control over.

I used to be engaged in politics (volunteering at elections, doing administrative parliamentary work, community boards, and having opinions about matters). Becoming apolitical has removed a burden in my life. I don't watch horror movies, and I don't watch the news. I don't subscribe to anxiety and violence, and I just accept and cherish that there is peace in my area of the world.

I followed the Ukraine war out of a sense of necessity; I have friends who went to the border to help refugees cross and prevent human trafficking. If you're not doing something like that, I'm not sure that the combined violence and pain in the world is something we, on average as individuals of our species, are well-equipped to handle.

threatofrain · 4 years ago
I think the difficulty of following news with any sense of fluency, not to mention more in-depth technical issues like energy and ecology, makes me think that democracy is at its stressing point. Education alone cannot be the answer — unless we think we can educate people to the point of being general experts on such a broad but critical slate of issues like energy, geopolitical strategy, domestic healthcare, etc.

Perhaps the future of democracy is made of voters who subscribe to institutions of intellectual or moral credibility that tell people directly how to vote (churches, policy groups) rather than a firehose of content where you make up your own mind on how to vote. It sounds more anti-intellectual than it is, but many people are already cognitively and emotionally maxed out.

benjaminbachman · 4 years ago
I like the New York Times but I was infuriated by the unsubscribe process. I also turned down a super cheap extension.

I am now subscribed via the Google Play store, which means the NYT loses a big chunk of the money, all so I can be guaranteed an easy cancellation button.

WalterBright · 4 years ago
I didn't have any trouble cancelling the NYT. My credit card number changed, and that was that :-)
lawgimenez · 4 years ago
I can easily cancel from the nytimes.com website by going to my account settings.
cgriswald · 4 years ago
We started receiving the Sunday paper from one of the local papers around here. We all checked our accounts and none of us had been charged. We didn't get mail, email, or anything else from this paper. Originally I thought it must have been someone else's newspaper, so I just left it out there to see if anyone came asking and also asked a couple neighbors, but nothing. Figured whoever it was would call the paper and complain, but this went on for about 12 Sundays and ended up resolving itself somehow (maybe the subscription lapsed?). Just ended up throwing them in the recycling as a matter of course.

There was no way in hell I was going to bother with a call to the newspaper. They'd be confused for the first half of the conversation, then even if they figured it out, they'd spend the second half trying to sell me a subscription, like I wasn't already getting it for free.

musictubes · 4 years ago
In the mid 90s I bought some VHS tapes from Playboy. They put me on a subscription to the magazine. Never subscribed, was never charged for it. I had just gotten out of college and so was still living at my mother’s place. That was a little embarrassing. Once I made it clear I wasn’t actually interested in the magazine, her husband grabbed them as they came in. I forgot about it.

My mother eventually divorced him and one day I was visiting and she pointed out that Playboy was still being delivered and that she certainly didn’t have any interest in it. That was 8 years after they were first being sent. Got on the phone and thankfully the unsubscribe process was easy.

bombcar · 4 years ago
This is the way I'd go - subscribe to publications that don't have advertising, or have minimal, and subscribe to ones that are monthly if possible, weekly at worst.

The reality is you do NOT need the day-to-day news, anything that's important will still be talked about in a month.

renewiltord · 4 years ago
I live in California, so all of this is online. I just go online and cancel. I remember before, though, when I had to call. Everyone was total shit: the Economist, the WSJ, the NYT.

But California baby. You can hate us. But we lead the USA into a better world.

bradgessler · 4 years ago
News websites are so terrible about canceling that its actually a feature on a news site I built at https://legiblenews.com/upgrades/hassle-free-cancelation

It has to be one of the stupidest features I’ve ever written, but sadly it’s where we are today with the average news website.

Another really stupid feature is simply building a news website that doesn’t blast you in the face with 10Mb of ads. Legible News has a 100 score on Google Page Speed insights: https://pagespeed.web.dev/report?url=https%3A%2F%2Flegiblene.... It FULLY loads in about 1s on mobile and desktop.

Compare that to NYTimes that takes about 10s to fully load: https://pagespeed.web.dev/report?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytim.... Pretty much any news website you plug in there will get a score of 25, take 10s to load, and hardcore spy on you. Thanks advertisements!

I wrote more about the many problems of traditional news websites at https://legiblenews.com/about.

Check it out at https://legiblenews.com/ — daily news is free, there’s no third party scripts or tracking, and if you like it the cost is $10/year at https://legiblenews.com/plus (I’m probably going to raise prices soon by a few bucks)

yokoprime · 4 years ago
News services, like the NYT, is doing themselves a HUGE disservice by making cancelling so hard. I’ve subscribed to NYT twice, and in general I’ve been very impressed by the quality of their content. But the second time I had to go through all their BS to cancel, i swore I would never subscribe again.
2OEH8eoCRo0 · 4 years ago
I decided (other than this site) to actively avoid all news that has a comment section.
thetopher · 4 years ago
I will never subscribe to the NYT again. Unsubscribing was an infuriating process.

I love The Economist, and their podcasts. I've never had to unsubscribe because I just pre-pay for 1-year subscription offers that I find on Slickdeals.

Melatonic · 4 years ago
I subscribe to a big paper in the city I live in (like, the actual sunday paper delivery). I tried to explain MULTIPLE times to their support people that I did not want all of the extra advertisement crap that came with the paper (pretty standard with any paper - not the small amount of ads/classifieds in the paper itself - all of the extra pamphlets they include)

Their support people could just not even comprehend WHAT I was even talking about - they kept circling back to "pop-up ads" and if I had tried a pop-up blocking extension. It was a never ending circle of confusion :-D

paulcole · 4 years ago
> I tried to explain MULTIPLE times to their support people that I did not want all of the extra advertisement crap that came with the paper

Is this even an option they offer or just one you wished existed?

mywacaday · 4 years ago
I've been through that twice but now I'm on a $1 a month subscription which is worth it even if I read nothing some months.
cube2222 · 4 years ago
I've also had that experience at one point (cancelling NYT sub over the phone).

Then there was a big discount, I bought it again, wasn't reading it again, so cancelled it recently again...

and this time there was actually a button in the UI to do it in a few seconds. Might be related to me being in the EU though.

atmosx · 4 years ago
I always use cards I can freeze or PayPal and the like, so I don’t have to call anyone, I just freeze the card or stop recurring payments via PayPal.
TameAntelope · 4 years ago
For WSJ if you change your billing address to California you can cancel online. I dunno if that's true for every subscription, though.
death916 · 4 years ago
Its a california law so most places accept it.
zja · 4 years ago
Forcing you to talk to someone to unsub is a gross dark pattern, but fwiw, I used the live chat and it wasn’t that bad.
tootie · 4 years ago
There's no incentive to ever make cancellation easy nor any incentive to make cancellers feel valued.
indigochill · 4 years ago
Of course there is. If you piss someone off while they're cancelling, it's less likely you'll get repeat business. People cancel and then renew subscriptions on all kinds of things all the time.
tgsovlerkhgsel · 4 years ago
Aside from making it much less likely that customers will return, it'll also lead to threads (and word of mouth) like this which will deter some, and if you overdo it, it even risks attracting regulation.

That may not be enough of an incentive to overcome the immediate benefit, but it's not nothing.

azalemeth · 4 years ago
If you want something very British, Private Eye is an absolute blast. It's only available in dead-tree form and has a lot of real, high quality investigative journalism sprinkled in amongst the cartoons and satire. You can get a fairly good idea if you'll like it from their website [1].

The podcast, Page 94, is also excellent [2] and is sparsely updated, but they do good things when it is. For an example of the "WTFBBQ" stories they cover, have a look at "The Snooty Fox" episode [3], which covers the rather horrid tale of a pub landlord who pissed off a council member by accidentally overcharging her, and ended up punitively investigated by the food standards people, bankrupted and quite literally imprisoned for several years. He finally secured justice after more than 20 years when the council authority ceased to exist (and its successor apologised hugely and unreservedly – his convictions were quashed and later counter-sued for £14m [4]).

One other thing – cancelling the subscription is trivial.

[1] https://www.private-eye.co.uk/ [2] https://www.private-eye.co.uk/podcast [3] https://www.private-eye.co.uk/podcast/68 [4] https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1547675/pub-landlord-the-s...

remus · 4 years ago
Another vote for the eye. It's amazing the number of stories that first appear there before being picked up by larger outlets years later. The post office scandal is a prime example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Post_Office_scandal
billfruit · 4 years ago
LRB perhaps as well.
gordon_freeman · 4 years ago
For anyone claiming NYT quality has gone downhill should try and read this article: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/08/arts/design/d...

This article has single handedly ignited my interest in arts and paintings. This is just an example but in general what I find great about NYT is the way they do storytelling with mixture of interactive visualization and text-based news and facts.

compscistd · 4 years ago
I read this article and a week later came across one of his works (with the signature lemon peel!) at the Met. Would not have been able to recognize him without it. I love how the NYT experiments with different mediums, like their weekly friday news quiz, their stellar cooking app, the crosswords, and now these little art explorations
hangonhn · 4 years ago
Their tech is quite decent and open source too:

https://github.com/nytimes

I think the BBC does something similar as well:

https://github.com/bbc/

pranshum · 4 years ago
This was great!

IMO the NYT really shines with their arts/culture sections! Makes the subscription worth it for me personally.

I do feel like their politics/opinion sections have gone downhill.

But every now and then they do a long-form article which convinces me to re-subscribe for a year. This one was incredible: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/22/world/asia/the-jungle-pri...

gaws · 4 years ago
Their visual journalism is some of the best in the industry and often gets overshadowed by the print shenanigans.
jonplackett · 4 years ago
Really enjoyed that! Thanks!

I already subscribe to NYT and this makes me feel good about it.

lawgimenez · 4 years ago
Thank you for this one! Do you follow any of their newsletters?
gordon_freeman · 4 years ago
Yes I do subscribe to their Upshot and Weekender newsletters. The weekender especially shows the breadth and depth of great NYT journalism.
jumelles · 4 years ago
NYT's visual journalism team is top-notch.
n8cpdx · 4 years ago
+1 Economist

- When they cover something I’m knowledgeable about, they get the facts right, so I trust them in other areas

- App lets me listen to the weekly edition read by humans

- Only comes out weekly (so no daily bullshit treadmill, and they have time to get things right)

- Genuinely useful and interesting info. Since I switched from NYT to the Economist it’s like I have supernatural powers to see into the future; nothing surprises me anymore. Recent issues where I knew what was coming months to weeks before others: COVID, post-COVID inflation, Ukraine

I listened to the podcasts for months before paying to subscribe, and the podcasts (The Intelligence and Economist Asks are favorites) cover some of the content of the weekly edition. If you like the podcasts, you’ll love the genuine article.

skrebbel · 4 years ago
Same, I subscribed a few months ago and i think it's pretty amazing. Esp the weekly cadence: turns out that being up to a week behind on major news items is quite the blessing. More often than not, the dust will have settled and the Economist can write a balanced analysis.
ghaff · 4 years ago
For a general news pub, either The Economist or the New York Times. They have pros and cons depending upon what you're interested in. Both of them are a bit rich for my blood given that they're mostly competing for a fixed amount of bandwidth on my part. Personally, at the moment, I get the NYT (I've had The Economist in the past) but it's a fairly close call.
whitesilhouette · 4 years ago
Is also recommend Bloomberg to go with the Economist subscription. It has all the right ingredients to keep you on top of all worthwhile news.
cranekam · 4 years ago
Another +1. Although I don’t necessarily believe neoliberalism is the best thing ever at least the Economist doesn’t hide its editorial stance and generally supports regulation where it’s needed. And there is plenty of really good content (book reviews, science/tech, coverage of Russia-Ukraine war) that doesn’t have a political skew one might dislike.
yeswecatan · 4 years ago
Do you get the magazine as well?
muldoc · 4 years ago
The Economist is owned by a few ultra rich families, 43.5% by the Italian Agnelli family
tacker2000 · 4 years ago
I read the Financial Times and The Economist. I think they are pretty well researched without leaning in a specific direction too much. The comments on FT are also mostly very civil, with good discussion.

The Guardian is “intelligent” but is way too blatantly leftist, to get any sort of balanced information.

cpursley · 4 years ago
This, the financial focused papers have to at least be somewhat honest in their reporting as investors and other business folks depend on their reporting. Vs advocacy of whichever social/political/etc issue is currently in vogue.
wolverine876 · 4 years ago
How do you explain the popularity among that crowd of the Wall Street Journal?
nindalf · 4 years ago
Seconding the Economist. When I read it, I find I can stay in the loop without having to follow the news daily. A weekly high level summary is good enough for me.
rupi · 4 years ago
Second both FT and The Economist. You can get by just with the Economist if you are happy with it being a weekly.

Both FT and Economist are very good at not including any fluff, in the language they use and in the content itself.

tl_donson · 4 years ago
the FT has probably the best info:word count ratio of any daily publication i’ve ever read
jmfldn · 4 years ago
Everything is biased. I quite like The Economist but it's liberal, "markets first", stance is just as much an ideology as anything The Guardian espouses. Its trick is to make itself seem above the fray, offering a god's eye dispassionate opinion. It is clever marketing and presentation.

I rate it for world affairs and it is a good news source. I just think it gets undue levels of praise.

wizwit999 · 4 years ago
It's comical to call the Economist unbiased. They make their bias very very clear.
chaorace · 4 years ago
I think a better way to put it is that The Economist has a bias unique to itself. They typically publish articles which are consistent with their own particular editorial voice rather than remaining properly dispassionate.

Really, the big difference between The Economist and other popular "biased" publications is that The Economist has avoided becoming a party mouthpiece. Yes, it's certainly a political publication, but they arrive at that position without having fallen prey to the usual motivated reasoning. I credit this unusual distinction to the international nature of their operation and the focusing effect granted by virtue of hanging everything on a single overarching topic.

Deleted Comment

bluenose69 · 4 years ago
TheGuardian.com is worth it, in my opinion. It's not expensive, and it gives world news, not just national news. The proofreading on the website is not impressive, though, compared with the weekly paper version (to which I also subscribe).

I've also had WP and NYT subscriptions, and I think these are fine choices. One thing, though: I found it quite difficult to cancel my NYT subscription. Subscriptions are like hash functions -- easy in one direction and hard in the other.

tgsovlerkhgsel · 4 years ago
I was supporting them for a while.

Unfortunately, over the past few years, they stopped doing journalism and are just trying to output the same misleading clickbait as everyone else, interspersed with ideology-driven, fact-free propaganda pieces.

Aeolun · 4 years ago
I used to subscribe to the Guardian, and then I read one article whcih was so blatantly false and politically motivated that it made me question why I have ever decided to subscribe in the first place.

I really, really respect that they make their articles available for free though, so I still feel compelled to pay them, it’s just that I don’t want to read their articles any more.

omega3 · 4 years ago
Unfortunately the quality has also gone downhill and they’ve switched from news reporting to pushing an agenda.
Veen · 4 years ago
It's always had a left-wing angle, but it has become more strident in recent years as the comment section began to dominate. Their straight news reporting is generally pretty good. I read it even though I'm not at all aligned with the politics of many of the writers.
lawgimenez · 4 years ago
I can easily cancel on the nytimes.com by going to settings. I’m in Asia though so maybe it is different on your region.
msapaydin · 4 years ago
I also like "the guardian", it is also less US centered, and has some great coverage of movies and technology ethics). The only catch is that the android subscription is not valid on the computer or any other device than android.
sofixa · 4 years ago
Another vote for FT ( Financial Times). Pricey, but reporting is good and covers a vast arrays of topics and geos ( i can read about FC Barcelona's financial troubles, the fall of the latest Bulgarian cabinet and why that's going to end bad, an investigative report about fraud in Wirecard, etc. and it will be in decent depth), is factually correct and gets updated when it isn't.
pottertheotter · 4 years ago
I really like the FT. If someone is considering the WSJ, I’d highly recommend getting FT instead. I had access to both while working at a hedge fund and read them both all the time, but much preferred FT.
jeramey · 4 years ago
If you're in the Apple ecosystem, subscribing and unsubscribing to several of these news sources, so long as you read them in Apple's News app, becomes a lot easier, though it can be more expensive than going direct to the publisher. But hey, you get dark mode! And no major hassle when you want to stop a subscription!

As far as quality of news, I'd echo the sentiment others have given that Wall Street Journal's factual reporting is stellar, but their opinion and editorial pieces leave a lot to be desired. I'd say the same about The Washington Post and Los Angeles Times.

The Atlantic is decent for thoughtful editorials as can be The New Yorker, but honestly, you're just going to run into some sensationalism and knee-jerk, politically-motivated slant no matter what editorial/opinion sources you choose, so caveat emptor.

heretogetout · 4 years ago
It's too bad the Apple news app is so user hostile. If you block a news source they don't remove it from any grids, they just hide images and text and replace it with something saying you've blocked the source. I block a lot of sources so it gets ugly fast.
al_borland · 4 years ago
I blocked a news source and I still see it in the Top Stories area all the time. It made me wonder what the point was.

It also bombarde me with celebrity gossip I don’t care about. I’ve started hitting the button to hide certain topics, but I’m always hesitant. I don’t need to know every time Will Smith posts a tweet, but if he slaps Chris Rock in the middle of an award show, I’d be interested in that. Apple News seems to have trouble surfacing just the big stuff I might care about.

That being said, I do like they it gives me access to the WSJ.

solution-finder · 4 years ago
I agree! I have subscribed before to NYT, Economist using Apple’s subscriptions and therefore never had any issues in unsubscribing, or needing to call somebody to unsubscribe.