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Posted by u/thyrox 3 years ago
Ask HN: Have you had any real benefits from apps like Headspace, Fabulous, etc?
There are so many apps which promise scientific benefits like relief from stress, better habits, etc.

Unfortunately most of them are free for only 7 days or 10 days and followed with a steep cost. I'm okay paying if there are any real benefits but the reviews are really mixed on the play store.

So just wondering what you guys think? Has any such app has had real life benefits? What do you think?

maroonblazer · 3 years ago
After trying Headspace and Calm I settled on the app Waking Up[0] and have been using it for a couple of years now. It's been a huge help. It's a lot more than just a guided meditation app.

While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless. What I like about Waking Up is the conversations with experienced meditators where they talk about the practice itself. These serve as a guide for my own practice. There's a whole section that consists of conversations on the theory behind meditation. As an HN type I eat these up.

I also don't think you can get the full benefit of a meditation practice without considering the nature of mind and consciousness. The app includes several discussions on this topic as well and it helped to inform my practice substantially.

[0]https://wakingup.com/

hombre_fatal · 3 years ago
I love Waking Up. It's Sam Harris walking you through how to do it in a practical way.

I'll admit that until I tried it, I thought meditating was either just sitting there trying there trying to think no thoughts or it had some sort of religious connection that just wasn't for me. After using it for months, I realized it's a way to be present, acknowledge that thoughts are things that merely arise, and most of all, things that you can discard instead of letting them impact you.

I started trying it when he said that he'll do it for 30 seconds just standing in line at Starbucks if he feels some sort of anxiety, or before he goes on stage. That kind of thing felt practical to me, so I gave it a go. I've used the app on and off for over a year, often starting from the first guided session from scratch and working back through them when I lose the habit.

I don't do the guided sessions anymore, mostly listen to the interviews in the app that you point out. But I meditate in the morning almost every day now, and right after, I try to think of the person I want to be, and then I start my day. I got that tip from Eben Pagan (of David DeAngelo dating advice fame) after realizing I usually just wake up and am the person that I feel like, like sometimes I'd wake up and feel low confidence, and I would kinda be a low confidence person all day. Meanwhile, all I had to do was simply decide to take another path.

I dismissed all of this kind of stuff as BS for most of my life. I was 30 when I finally tried Waking Up and I finally see that there's something practical behind these things.

gunfighthacksaw · 3 years ago
> While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless

Isn’t that… the point of meditation?

spicymaki · 3 years ago
>> While you can get some benefits from simply practicing meditation, it can feel a bit aimless

> Isn’t that… the point of meditation?

Absolutely not! The secularization of meditation in the west has completely divorced meditation from it's original purpose (in the Buddhist context). Meditation is a complete mental training program. Monks did not just sit there on a cushion; they worked with teachers, reflected on ideas, and gained insights.

There is a mistaken view that meditation is just sitting there, but meditation is an active practice that includes eating, walking, cleaning, etc.

Being divorced from tradition is what makes it aimless and pointless.

I am not personally against secularization, but if we are going to extract ideas from these traditions, we should honor them and make them work effectively in our modern lives.

david-gpu · 3 years ago
Different types of meditation have different goals, somewhat like different types of exercise have different goals.

Meditation isn't about closing your eyes and doing nothing. It takes effort, at least until you are proficient.

float4 · 3 years ago
I think they're mainly referring to the "what am I doing here?" phase that most people seem to go through when they start meditating.

It's exactly why I never managed to make a habit out of it.

solarengineer · 3 years ago
When I practiced mindfulness meditation, I was incredibly in the moment. Zero distractions.
michaelbarton · 3 years ago
I agree. I’ve been using headspace on and off for about 3 years. The last three months it really started to click when I was able to meditate comfortably for 30 minutes or more.

To answer OP’s question: the benefits I’ve found are to start to recognize the constant internal (mostly critical) monologue as just another appearance in consciousness in the same way sight and sound are. When I have a really good meditation session this monologue just kind of dissolves and I’m left feeling very peaceful.

Would love to hear from any other experienced meditators on what they found their next steps to be at this stage.

rockbruno · 3 years ago
I think you're misunderstanding the point of these apps, which might very well be intentional on these companies' part to get you to spend money on something that you might not need.

Therapy doesn't "solve" anything by itself, you must see it as a tool to help you put your mind in a better position so that you can solve your problems. Lots of people see these as magical apps that will somehow magically make them better with no effort from their side and then proceed to get disappointed when this obviously doesn't happen.

So to answer your question:

- Will these apps provide "scientific benefits" (whatever that is supposed to be)? No.

- Will these apps assist your own effort of improving mental health? Yes, as long as you're committed to it and keep going.

Tarq0n · 3 years ago
I feel like this is rephrasing the issue in an unhelpful way. Sure the app isn’t going to do the work for you but it’s still valuable to know what the average marginal benefit is relative to not using one or using a different one, especially considering these are paid services and therefore need to be considered for value.
vorpalhex · 3 years ago
I run into this problem a lot: people think buying "health food" will fix their weight, or that a gym membership will make them fit.

You have to eat the food. You have to use the gym.

It's a bit like arguing about the best gym to join. People waste months answering that question. The answer is "whichever one you will actually use".

cube00 · 3 years ago
> Therapy doesn't "solve" anything by itself, you must see it as a tool to help you put your mind in a better position so that you can solve your problems.

One part of mediation is resisting the temptation to try and solve anything. You improve being able to notice each thought, acknowledge in a non-judgemental way and then allow it to continue moving through the station. The next thought will be arriving shortly. Mind the gap please.

vorpalhex · 3 years ago
You are espousing a single type of meditation practice. Parent is talking about a different meditation practice.
spsful · 3 years ago
> I think you're misunderstanding the point of these apps

Reminds me of the "Why are you trying to do this?" reply that is almost automatic on Stackoverflow, lol

lotsofpulp · 3 years ago
I feel like 45min to 60min high intensity interval training (HIIT) cardiovascular exercise (e.g. swimming, running, rowing, bicycling, stairs, elliptical, etc) would be cheaper and address a host of other health issues also. Include some compound weight lifting like pull ups, deadlift, squat, bench press, lunges, and core workouts like planks, and I bet outcomes greatly exceed whatever an app can provide.
jmacd · 3 years ago
I've used high intensity cardio to manage pretty much any mental health issues I've flirted with over the years. (for me, mostly issues with focus, anxiety).

I am almost 40 now and I do see it seems to be diminishing in terms of effectiveness. I've tried to vary the amount and intensity but that has had limited impact.

I find now I need to manage other factors: alcohol intake, my diet, socialization, sleep, news consumption are all big ones for me.

I think there is a reason people do simplify many aspects of their lives as they get older. The sharp tools of youth aren't quite the magic they used to be.

Apps like Headspace, or just meditation generally, is something I have tried and I can see the benefit. I try to "clear my head" twice a day. Usually that's a 20 minute nap, and I've been trying to find another option and meditation seems like a good one.

lotsofpulp · 3 years ago
True, I am not yet 40, so I do not have that perspective. But the order of operations for maintaining health is, as I understand:

sleep right > eat right > exercise right

If you do not have the sleep and eat part down (including alcohol), then proceeding to exercise will not have all the desired effects. Not to say that meditation does not help, if it works for people then it works for people.

lanstin · 3 years ago
Exercise is great but meditation is also valuable for some people. And it doesn’t get cheaper than meditation, you don’t need anything outside yourself, except maybe a pillow and some time.
ozim · 3 years ago
For meditation I think people are trying to "meditate".

Where I would get same benefits from 45-60 min cardio where I focus on the training and rhythm of music.

I definitely also felt "meditation" effects from reading books - but of course with intense focus on the book not thinking about anything else and not having tv running in background and people trying to talk to me.

In the end I do believe I get the same benefits when I focus on something intensely so basically any hobby.

Watching series on streaming services is for me not that immersive and too much stimuli so it does not work that.

picardythird · 3 years ago
As someone who enjoys all of those activities I will say that meditation offers something that those activities do not offer. There is an inner clarity that can be found in a much more profound way from meditation, in my experience.

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givinguflac · 3 years ago
Respectfully, I don’t think you understand mediation. It’s not about intense focus, it’s about awareness.
uxamanda · 3 years ago
I used Headspace for about a year ~5 years ago. Before that, I had tried meditation randomly but hadn’t gotten much out of it. After a few months of using the app, I learned enough to see the benefits. It helped get me to a point where I also added IRL meditation classes and community.

I no longer use the app, but I’ve maintained a practice since. The app was useful as training wheels / structure. I was motivated to learn about meditation and it helped me.

I think any number of free resources could have worked, but paying and having structure was a motivator to continue.

thenerdhead · 3 years ago
I feel like these apps are much like 24-hour gyms. The profits are because nobody uses them but says they will use them one day.

I love the headspace story and the founder Andy Puddicombe. His mission is a real one of literally "spreading awareness" to everyone.

I've had a subscription to headspace for over 3 years now(corporate discount) and used it tons when I first started to learn about meditation. However 3 years wiser, I realize that I don't need a guide and do it all myself. I forgot I was subscribed until I saw this!

Much like exercise if you don't do it everyday, you get bored of it quickly. I really enjoyed the NBA series on headspace that I would use to kick-ass at work for awhile before I finished it and nothing else seemed interesting.

I also used their sleepcasts for awhile when battling insomnia. I enjoyed them but then found myself able to fall asleep naturally because I changed my habits to work out more and would be physical tired by the end of the night.

All in all, I think headspace can truly change your life. It just depends on how you decide to go about it. Meditation, awareness, mindfulness, and many of the skills it teaches are some of the most important skills to be getting accustomed to throughout one's life. I don't think I'll ever stop meditating or practicing in my life, but I am at the point where I no longer need these apps after 3 years.

TrueGeek · 3 years ago
The intro course in Headspace is amazing. I had to experience with meditation and Andy really explained it well. It completely changed what I thought meditation was. But then, afterwards, he made it so simple I didn’t need the app at all.

You’re right about his story. His book is great, simply for the first quarter where he tells how he got where he is.

lstamour · 3 years ago
If you like the book, you’ll love the audiobook. Same content, but Andy reads it. It’s a great listen, especially if you haven’t read the book before.

That said, the book is simply presented and somewhat repetitive, so the material doesn’t exactly stand up to repeated listens much. But it’s still fun :)

The Headspace Guide to Mindfulness & Meditation audiobook by Andy Puddicombe https://www.hachette.co.uk/titles/andy-puddicombe/the-headsp... (can be found on Audible, Kobo, Audiobooks.com etc.)

Has a few guided meditations at the end of the audiobook, though you might also get some value from the various ones posted for free by Headspace on their social media: https://youtube.com/c/headspace

thenerdhead · 3 years ago
Exactly! I think headspace ran out of Andy content and so did my interest after that!
hoherd · 3 years ago
I got the most lasting value out of the free UCLA Marc guided meditation sessions[0] which now have an app. When I first used them years ago it was only a list of recordings on a web page. In that time I've tried a few of the other apps that have popped up, and was grandfathered into the Waking Up lifetime membership, but I always think that MARC gave me more lasting benefit than, for instance, the guided meditations in Waking Up. However, this could be due to MARC being my first real introduction into meditation practice that I stuck with, and the others would never have that chance.

[0] https://www.uclahealth.org/marc/mindful-meditations

mckirk · 3 years ago
Oh cool, I'd almost forgotten about those guided meditations! I used to listen to them a fair bit, not sure what happened to that habit. But good to know that they have an app now, thanks for the info!
Horticulture · 3 years ago
You should check out Medito - https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=meditofoundati.... It's free & non-profit with daily sessions. No need to pay for anything like this imo, but I have donated to Medito because they offer a good service, for free, and for the right reasons.

Fwiw, the benefit I've found is just in a more general mindfulness, and meditation can be part of that. Notice yourself tensing or clenching your jaw, and make a conscious effort to reduce that. Pay attention when something feels good, or hurts to think about. It has given me some modicum of clarity and engagement I didn't before.

xanaxagoras · 3 years ago
I do wonder why it's not on fdroid. Downloaded anyway, Exodus says no trackers. Daily meditation by 2 different people. This is rad, I'm going to try using it for a week.
anon2020dot00 · 3 years ago
Tried it (Calm, Headspace) several times but it didn't really work for me; what worked for me instead is just using Otter.AI to make voice memos and so that helped me to get things out of my head.
tchock23 · 3 years ago
Same here. I fire up Otter during longer car rides and it’s great for just dumping out thoughts and clearing my mind.