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Posted by u/cdahmedeh 4 years ago
Ask HN: I feel so shallow and dumb when I see what other smart people are doing
I was watching a video game documentary about the history of the RollerCoaster Tycoon franchise, a theme park management game that had both an easy learning curve but with incredibly sophisticated dynamics. What really impressed me however was the origins of the first two titles: written by one man in assembly language.

At that point, I realized how mediocre and untalented I was. Nothing I’m doing in my life are anything that people will remember me for. Throughout my life, I’ve seen many awe inspiring projects done by extremely talented people, way more intelligent than I am, come to fruition. Over the years, I realized how shallow and dumb I really am. I’m uninteresting.

Most of my career revolved around software development, something that I’ve done since I was 17 (now I'm 30) until a few years ago. I found myself writing entreprise software usually in the backend and that’s all I really knew except for some server administration and scripting sprinkled on top. Sat beside me were full-stack developers with expertise in DevOps as well. They knew how to do everything I could on top of so much else. As for me, I can barely write basic HTML pages.

I meet with incredibly smart people with master’s degrees and PhDs knowing so much about their field of expertise while I’m a University drop-out. People who know world history so well while being able to talk about the hard problem of consciousness at the same time. YouTubers and Twitch streamers who are so talented at playing games and entertaining us along the way.

There’s people who have paved the way for innovation and foresight that I don’t have at all. Those who make so much money due to their talents and bringing them to life in this world of ours. I’ve watched so many documentaries about all sorts of people from racing drivers, to game developers, comedians, data science experts, cybersecurity nuts, music producers, video editors, documentaries makers and so much more. These are all things that come to mind thinking that I’ll never be able to do any of that.

I’m mostly a self-taught person teaching myself skills as I go along with my life. I generally don’t pick up much except for a few facts that I can repeat to others. I can barely do derivatives anymore in math or draw like I used to. My talents are shallow and honestly quite useless.

Today, I don’t do much with my life other than binging on YouTube documentaries and reading Wikipedia articles not helping my case. My motivation for learning is shrinking slowly and would much rather stare out of the window while I’m not doing my obligatory 8 hours of daily work.

Now, I’m an unimportant technical writer composing documents for developers and users. There’s no path for career growth if I stay in this specialty. My work doesn’t feel like it takes much talent and I was hired a few times without having any credentials in business writing.

I’ve been told by previous managers that I’m always in “learning mode” and quite “creative” but I can’t convince myself that these traits are actually true. I feel untalented, empty and dumb.

My dreams do exist but they starting to seem more and more superficial. There’s a lot of subjects and activities that I’m really interested of getting into but I can’t just dive into it. I blame it on the lack of time and laziness but I have strong time management skills and can conjure up much empty slots in my schedule. I sometimes wonder if my mental condition or my medication has had an effect on this: I'm bipolar schizoaffective and borderline.

foobarian · 4 years ago
I have these kinds of feelings a lot. It is hard to feel useful in this day and age of a ubiquitous globally connected society because for anything you attempt to do you have instant access to the top 0.0001% of the Bell curve who you have no hope of ever beating.

I find comfort in that I am not alone, thinking of all the peasants and regular workers across history who didn't amount to much either, but still mostly fought on and had a good life. Plenty of examples in immediate family as well.

And lastly, I found that there is one thing that one can do that is absolutely unique that nobody can match anywhere in the world, and that is - as corny as this sounds - kids. It may be a touchy subject or not for everybody. But raising a human with the best possible effort you can muster is an accomplishment at least one person will remember and value 100000x more vs. any world champion in solving IOI problems or writing clever functional code :-)

DyslexicAtheist · 4 years ago
it seems to me that the biggest problem OP faces is the relationship to themselves. Before you can effectively love others you need to be able to be good company to yourself. Because who will put up with you if you don't even think you're worthy of love.

I stopped counting the number of times they mentioned that they considered themselves stupid. There is so much negative and toxic self critic in this post that my feeling is that this is the biggest most fundamental issue that I would look at tackling.

Once you can sit in a room by yourself and be truly happy with your own company go and be open to relationships - but not before - otherwise you're back to square one but only worse because now you have an additional reason that you will use to justify your self hate. Love yourself first. Out of that love maybe you find somebody maybe not. It doesn't matter. Out of that maybe kids can happen - or not. If you ask your partner (or worse your kids) to fix you eventually it will all come back to you. You gotta do that work in the end by yourself. Anything else is cheating.

thevagrant · 4 years ago
Your points are also true.

In my life, kids helped me relearn what it was like to be young.

It took me a number of years to realise I had bad depression / anhedonia.

My kids helped my focus on what was important.

I accepted myself for who I am and was able to feel happy again. My kids think I'm the great wizard with technology, even if I'm considered average.

Message to OP

We can't all be famous or the best at something. We don't all have eidetic memories. You will meet those savant like personalities and they will skew your view of the world, to think that you are not capable by comparing.

Stop comparing.

You can do great things. The greatest achievement is to live a long life and to challenge yourself. Be the best you can be. Accept your limits. Use your ability to help others and take joy in that.

If you can't be Einstein or Tesla, take pride in being part of their journey.

No one will remember us. This is the norm.

throwaway803453 · 4 years ago
"Because who will put up with you if you don't even think you're worthy of love."

The answer is people who don't know the real you. Would anyone love you if they saw a clip show of all the lies, betrayal, hypocrisy, times you yelled at your family, embarrassing fails, wasted potential, etc. But for many of us that clip show plays daily in our heads as a reminder to stop being so shitty and it comes at the price of our self-esteem.

nzmsv · 4 years ago
There's another angle here too. Kids often force us to re-evaluate our own habits and improve. Here's what I mean. Imagine you are teaching your kid (OP: the kid can be imaginary, just imagine that you love them very much) about nutrition and all they want to do is eat junk food. You talk about how important it is for their health, and suddenly realize that maybe your own diet isn't the greatest. And if you wouldn't advise your own diet to your kid, why are you eating this stuff? Same with the overly harsh inner critic. Imagine your kid with this kind of self-talk. You'd want to hug them first and foremost, and second - teach them healthier ways of processing these emotions. Yes, having ambition and pride in one's work are important, but so it having confidence. Undermining confidence is counterproductive to achievement. Ideally you'd want to see your kid try hard, notice when they fail, take responsibility, and try harder next time rather than hitting the easy mode "mope button".

My kids taught me both these lessons.

SyzygistSix · 4 years ago
>I stopped counting the number of times they mentioned that they considered themselves stupid. There is so much negative and toxic self critic in this post that my feeling is that this is the biggest most fundamental issue that I would look at tackling.

This. OP sounds like a great candidate for counseling/therapy from a psychologist who is a licensed counselor. It sometimes takes a few tries to find the right one, but it is worth the effort.

JKCalhoun · 4 years ago
Family, kids — I agree. I stopped giving a shit about "changing the world" when my kids came into my life. They became my world. And you will change their world.

I suspect they'll remember me forever.

muzani · 4 years ago
My father was a major foundation for what I do. Someone has to build these foundations. Many people don't take good enough care of their kids and many responsible people don't want kids. So it is literally world changing to be a good parent.
passer_byer · 4 years ago
This! I was constantly looking to grab the next rung up on the career ladder. Having kids made me rethink my priorities on helping them mature into happy, productive members of society. Sure, we made a pile of mistakes along the way in our child rearing efforts. I'm hoping the same, that they will remember me and my wife forever. I think they will.
catoc · 4 years ago
"I suspect they'll remember me forever"

Laughed out loud at that. Funny because it's so true.

For me personally it didn't stop me from wanting to achieve something in my life. Which I realize only partly overlaps with wanting to change the world. It was impactful nevertheless and I'm sure my kids will remember me :-)

prawn · 4 years ago
Goes in the other direction also, assuming your own parents are also decent people. You can provide immense satisfaction to them by sharing your time with them.
mathnmusic · 4 years ago
> I stopped giving a shit about "changing the world" when my kids came into my life.

Does that mean we oldies should be okay with tech employers showing a preference for young workforce?

ksdale · 4 years ago
This is a delightful sentiment, and I'd go further and say that things as simple as being kind to the people around you, cleaning up after yourself, etc. are similarly important and impactful. They sound trivial compared to acts of "genius" but a ton of people are jerks, every day. It's not trivial at all to make the people around you feel better, it's not easy to do it every day, and if everyone actually did it, the world would be a vastly different place.
nelblu · 4 years ago
I find kids overwhelming, in fact, if I had kids (I don't yet) I would be constantly worried about making sure they get the best of life. I have a dog and he is already a lot of work, I even feel bad on days when it rains and I can't take him out as long as I would like to. I feel bad when I go out for dinner with friends and have to leave him alone. The feeling of raising a dependent is not fun (for me at least). It definitely gives me a sense of purpose every day but the thought of going away from him makes me very anxious.

I almost feel it is a happier life to have lived like a nobody. I can relate to the OP because I feel exactly like him many times. But then I remind myself that we are all stardust and there is inherently no purpose to life. Somehow that makes me feel very calm.

bladegash · 4 years ago
Your post reminded me of when my first daughter was born. I remember me and my ex-wife would wonder, “how do people do this with two children!?”.

Not too long after, we had our second daughter. We very quickly realized that the answer to the question was “you just do”.

At least for me, I also realized our second daughter got less attention/coddling, but turned out just as great/spirited/happy.

Sometimes, I recognize that I hold myself to an unrealistically high standard/expectation. While setting the bar high can help one accomplish great things, but can also leave them feeling like they never measure up to their unreasonably high standards.

Kids are a lot of work for sure and require a lot of sacrifice. However, I hope you don’t avoid having kids because you don’t think you can be a good enough parent. The fact you are worried about it is already a sign, in my book, you’d make a pretty great and thoughtful parent.

orangepurple · 4 years ago
Don't worry. The more kids you have the more your grip on them spirals out of control as they interact with others and develop their own agency and personality. So you do the best you can for them every day, and the butterfly effect will do the rest.
flyinglizard · 4 years ago
Just stop feeling bad about these things. You are probably doing 99% right (just by trying) and it’s the completely insignificant, outright noise 1% which brings you down.
polishdude20 · 4 years ago
One thing I realize as I get older is those 10x people are 10x in usually one aspect of their lives. They've dedicated a huge amount of time to one thing. There's lots of people like that who sacrifice other things that you value and vice versa. You can specialize in one very nice thing and get really good at it or spread out your time to more than one thing.
achillesheels · 4 years ago
Children are the ultimate creative project. Beyond that, proper child-raising is promoting the well-being of the future of the human race. This is the 99%'s highest fulfillment and should not be looked down upon as being incomplete. Indeed, it is a wonderful testimony to the abundance of giving life to promote more life-giving.
wiether · 4 years ago
> And lastly, I found that there is one thing that one can do that is absolutely unique that nobody can match anywhere in the world, and that is - as corny as this sounds - kids.

Eat, shit, sleep, reproduce, die. Living being 101.

But the main thing about having kids is that you will not have time to think about how your life sucks anymore. Probably better than taking drugs to achieve the same result.

WesolyKubeczek · 4 years ago
Bullshit. Now in addition to sucking at my job, I suck as a parent. And also suck at my job more. Double burnout whammy.
kubanczyk · 4 years ago
> you will not have time to think about how your life sucks anymore

s/to think about how your life sucks/to ingest content that convinces you that your life sucks/gi

mstipetic · 4 years ago
Wow so edgy and deep
paulpauper · 4 years ago
>And lastly, I found that there is one thing that one can do that is absolutely unique that nobody can match anywhere in the world, and that is - as corny as this sounds - kids. It may be a touchy subject or not for everybody. But raising a human with the best possible effort you can muster is an accomplishment at least one person will remember and value 100000x more vs. any world champion in solving IOI problems or writing clever functional code :-)

I know you are trying to be helpful but this is probably not a good answer. I don;t think we know enough about his background to be recommending such a major life choice. Although each kid is unique, there is nothing unique about having them.

xiphias2 · 4 years ago
What if getting a trophy at IOI is easier than making a kid?

As for me it was...I got silver medal there, but I would have given it away easily for being able to date one of the many hot hostesses on the competition. My life would have been so much easier if I just spend my life in the gym instead of solving math and programming problems.

pedrosorio · 4 years ago
You do IOI in high school, so one would expect you to hit the gym regularly at that point.

Also going to the gym is pretty easy, so if you know “the path to happiness” why not just take it?

mylons · 4 years ago
there's a great bit from Louis CK on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1-7AKx_4Ug

"You get to read to kill a mockingbird." when he says it is hilarious and I often remember that when moments seem shitty.

marnett · 4 years ago
This is a great bit of his. In his 2017 special he provides a darker, but similarly themed line of thinking. He has a whole bit about a man whose life is, from the outside, seemingly so dull and horrible. And the entire premise "what is delaying his suicide?!" I know dark humor is not everyone's cup of tea, but the bit did remind me that the perseverance and self preservation of man is a beautiful thing.
mbrodersen · 4 years ago
Louis CK is a genius. One of a kind.
DecayingOrganic · 4 years ago
There is some solace to be found in the fact that our world does not perfectly adhere to the ideals of a real meritocracy. While living in such a world may contribute to unfairness, it also enables you to be in a better position in life than someone who is more naturally gifted.

In fact, one might suspect that you're more likely to find moderately gifted individuals at the top levels of success than very talented ones.

From the micro point of view, a talented individual has a greater a priori probability of reaching a high level of success than a moderately gifted one. However, from the macro point of view of the entire society, the probability of finding moderately gifted individuals at the top levels of success is greater than that of finding there very talented ones, because moderately gifted people are much more numerous and, with the help of luck, have globally a statistical advantage to reach a great success, in spite of their lower individual a priori probability.

fho · 4 years ago
Regarding kids and at the risk of sounding overly negative:

Given that 100% - `0.0001%` of people are basically average and judging by my Internet most of the people have a very pessimistic outlook on life and the future, is it really fair to have children?

If they don't, by slim chance, become that one in a million that just breezes through life ... they will become as pessimistic as we are ... and at some point they will find that their only contribution is having kids on their own.

(Disclaimer: I am not anti-kids, I/we always planned on having some, but as we are barely making ends meet it has never really been a good time and now we are in our mid-30s and time is running out)

zebraflask · 4 years ago
I think the commentary largely speaks for itself, but there is an aphorism that I think would be helpful:

If you measure yourself by someone else's yardstick, you'll always fall short.

paulpauper · 4 years ago
That is a good point, but also why settle for coming up short if you can improve yourself.
Abishek_Muthian · 4 years ago
I feel the opposite, I've been frequently told I'm smart, hard-working and that I've achieved things but all that usually in relation to that I'm disabled but I personally would trade anything to have a normal 'regular worker' life if I could.

I couldn't, not just because of the disability, But I'm easily bored and I need 12 parallel side projects to escape reality and I envy those who seem live carefree, doing what they're told and most importantly - living in the present.

So OP, there's no point in comparing with others be it smart or dumb from one's perspective. There are people who envy your lifestyle. Social media oversells the value of 'being known', I'm certain many in the top-tier of being known would rather wish they were unknown.

On average our society would prostrate to corrupt politicians, immoral celebrities or new age celeb-billionaires but would treat a homeless musician who makes little money without cheating or hurting anyone with disgust. Many put up a facade to keep up with this society, but for the sake of our mental well-being it's good to remove the facade every now and then.

ianberdin · 4 years ago
I have the same problems... That's because I have many mentally problems and my brain found an easy way to have "work addiction" - my psychotherapist says.

There is the only way: go to a doctor. Books don't help much.

stillblue · 4 years ago
I don't know about others but this comment is pretty eye opening to me. My mind just went complete 180 degrees right now. Thanks. There is so much food for thought.

Have a good one!

another_why · 4 years ago
> And lastly, I found that there is one thing that one can do that is absolutely unique that nobody can match anywhere in the world, and that is - as corny as this sounds - kids.

Great recommendation to a man who is bipolar and have a schizoactive disorder.

xattt · 4 years ago
I once heard someone suggest that “settling” for where life might be now as generally good, because it brings you peace and absolves you from guilt of not being good enough.
interroboink · 4 years ago
My recommendation: feel your feelings, all the way through.

There might be some tendency, when you feel small, to feel bad about feeling small — as though it is further evidence of your worthlessness — and that itself makes you feel worse, and down the spiral you go... Been there (:

But if you make space for (or even _welcome_) those feelings, even if you don't like them, then in my experience you end up at a better place.

I only mention this because you seem to be beating yourself up about this ("I feel shallow/dumb"). You can feel bad and still be a good person; it's an easy mixup to make.

(I am reminded of this funny image: https://i.redd.it/9ubhqov2u9k01.jpg [1])

Also, not that this makes your feelings go away, but looking at people who are rich/smart/influential/famous is looking at outliers, and people who likely had a lot of luck in their background, upbringing, genes, education, being-in-the-right-place-at-the-right-time, etc. etc. to achieve their success, on top of their hard work. For every succesful indie video game, there are 1000 people who worked just as hard on theirs but didn't get a big break. The same is true in all sorts of areas of life, big to small. And just in general, FWIW, I don't recommend judging your self-worth by comparing to others, whether they're outliers or not (:

But sorry you're feeling down; *internet hug*.

[1] (in case the direct link dies) https://old.reddit.com/r/wholesomememes/comments/82lny8/i_wa...

baby · 4 years ago
I have a hard time understanding what you mean by welcoming them, or feeling them through. But if I interpret that as “accepting it”, as in understanding that it’s totally fine and that pressure is always created from comparing yourself, then I agree. Feynmann himself is famous for saying “disregards”.
jdironman · 4 years ago
That's how interpreted it. As the monks during meditation would say, don't try to fight your thoughts and have an "empty mind" which is impossible, but instead examine and observe your thoughts freely.
interroboink · 4 years ago
> what you mean by welcoming them, or feeling them through. But if I interpret that as “accepting it” ...

I think acceptance is the right idea, yes.

There can be some urge to deny one's own emotions, perhaps push them aside as some sort of inconvenience or character flaw. Some might inwardly shout at themselves "stop whining! you're selfish to wallow like this!" (or any number of variations, both quiet and loud). That tends to just create more misery down the line, IMO. So, "welcoming" was meant as the opposite of that.

And processing emotions takes time, so by "feeling them through" I just meant allowing that process to run its course, rather than trying to inhibit or deny it. I don't think there's any stopping it, you just have to ride the wave.

YMMV of course, I'm no psychologist (:

DyslexicAtheist · 4 years ago
not OP but for me it means not sedating myself with drugs or distraction. But to stop what I am doing and let that feeling rush over me so I can study it and learn from what that feeling is teaching me. Why do I feel that way? is it rational? Oh it is just a feeling. It will not last. Creating this habit allows me to be clearer about what triggers my emotions, how to deal with them and fix the underlying cause. Once fixed new emotions or fears always come sooner or later again (and they always will), but I know I can deal with it.
codegeek · 4 years ago
I know the feeling but I will leave you with this:

"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.

― Ernest Hemingway"

mariodiana · 4 years ago
Thanks. The horrible thing is I came here to say that sometimes I find a project that I did a year or two ago and end up feeling shallow and dumb.
codegeek · 4 years ago
You will be surprised how much you know. Comparing with others is almost always a losing game. Trust me because I do this a lot myself. There is always someone whom you want to be like. But remember there are a lot of people who want to be like YOU. So just focus on yourself and keep becoming a better version of you and most importantly, keep an eye on your Goals whatever they may be. Remember that there is a cost to everything. You may look at someone and say "Wow they are so smart or successful or whatever". But do you know what they don't have or what they truly desire ? You will never know. May be what they truly desire, you have it.
rrauenza · 4 years ago
Embrace that feeling but reframe it. It means you've learned something and grown since you did that project a year ago.

If you looked back on work you did five years ago and didn't see room for improvement ... you've had no growth in your skills and experience.

AuryGlenz · 4 years ago
Try being a photographer. Work I delivered just a couple of years ago - or sometimes even months - makes me cringe. Those are someone’s once-in-a-lifetime event that you now think looks terrible and that you proudly posted to your social media accounts.

That’s gotten better for me in recent years, but I suppose that means I’ve somewhat plateaued. Either way you can’t win.

LamdbaMamba · 4 years ago
This is a quote I remind myself of a lot, because it's important, but for the life of me I can't find a source for Hemingway ever saying this. I think it was attributed to him before even before Kingsmen: The Secret Service but I'm not sure?
HWR_14 · 4 years ago
There are a lot of people who look at that past self as being something they fell away from. In some cases by choices they made and regret and in others where they suffered some accident. I'm not sure how the Hemingway quote is supposed to make them feel.
tomrod · 4 years ago
That the future can still inspire, once they account for sunk costs being irrelevant even if emotionally difficult.
nepalvibes · 4 years ago
This resonates a lot with me. There will always be people smarter, richer and prosperous than you. Appreciate the fact that you are always going to be in a line where you'll have people better and worst than you. Being able to motivate and make small consistent improvements is the key to being a better yourself.
lunatuna · 4 years ago
The first part of the quote reminds me a bit of the ted talk on leadership and starting a movement. More to the point: leaders are over glorified. Follow what you like. That's more important. I hope that the OP can see that. Find something that you like to do and follow it. It could be knitting, could woodworking, could be gardening . . .

It has done its rounds, but still enjoy watching this: https://www.ted.com/talks/derek_sivers_how_to_start_a_moveme...

paulpauper · 4 years ago
Maybe nothing noble about it, but it sure feels good to be the best at something or close to the best and respected and successful
johndevor · 4 years ago
I think that's the point Jordan Peterson has been making for a while, referencing increased serotonin released in lobsters who win fights against other lobsters, and a lowering in the ones who lose.
AareyBaba · 4 years ago
“Compare yourself to who you were yesterday, not to who someone else is today.” ― Jordan B. Peterson
racl101 · 4 years ago
Best reply here.

Comparing yourself to others is a fool's errand. Never goes well.

Dylan16807 · 4 years ago
But the quote isn't relevant to the way OP is comparing themself to others.

If that quote is about trying to win the race, then OP is lamenting being miles behind the leaders. The feeling of not pulling your own weight is a different sadness from "oh no I can't be the best".

WesleyJohnson · 4 years ago
With the exception of a few details, I swear I could've authored this post. I feel the exact same.

I'm starting to slowly realize that it's a vicious cycle for me. When my family wants to go do things, I want to stay at home and "work on my projects". So I spend a lot of my free time in front of the computer, trying to think of a cool thing I could build. That turns into youtube binging or twitter stalking, realizing there are so many talented people out there, solving all kinds of interesting problems and building cool things. I see them talking about the mountains of ideas they have, but not time to get to them all. Meanwhile, I have zero ideas - none.

The reason, I think, is because I live a small life. I'm so inside my box and my comfort zone, that I don't have new experiences, or discover new things. I don't run into new problems to solve, or socialize with people to discover problems they're trying to solve. So the ideas never come, but the way I consume life doesn't allow for it.

But rather than break the cycle, and spend more time away from the computer and living my life - I just rinse & repeat. I'm not getting any younger, and so many are out there building things, in the open, at lightning speed. How can I get where they are if I don't park myself behind my keyboard? How can I make a name for myself?

"Great, 4 hours before bed. What can I build tonight?"

"Ugh, how is 2 am already? Time for bed I guess. I'll try to think of some more ideas tomorrow."

WA · 4 years ago
> When my family wants to go do things, I want to stay at home and "work on my projects".

Try to get into the habit of saying yes to all their activities for a while. You gotta treat time away from the computer as room you make in your head for new impulses.

You will never find it on the internet. The internet rewires your brain into inaction. Especially since your body is inactive as well in front of the computer.

Imagine all people doing cool projects to have a write-only interface for the internet. They do things in the real world and then type stuff into their computer for others to consume. They never find inspiration through browsing the internet.

Maybe you won’t come up with cool projects or ideas, but if you move your body and do things, the desire for them fades in a positive kind of way, because you nurtured your prehistoric brain.

WesleyJohnson · 4 years ago
I do agree, it's hard to break the cycle. I've been a little better in the last couple of months, but I can work harder to allow myself to step away. I know I can't will myself into an epiphany, so why try?
spookyuser · 4 years ago
Definitely feel this, wow, even worse for me is when I work on something for someone else the whole time I am thinking: "I should be spending the little time I have working on my own stuff" then when I have free time to do that, exactly what you have written above happens lol.
mrjangles · 4 years ago
I think this touches on the real answer. Ideas and inspiration are things you discover by getting out of your comfort zone and exploring. They aren't things you create.
dvh1990 · 4 years ago
I'll be brutally honest because I used to be in your situation.

Each and every person you admire has poured thousands of hours into some project. For some that's a degree. For some it's a game they wrote, for others it's company that they've started...

Have you done that? Spent thousands of hours on a single thing? Focused on a project long enough to actually see results? I'm guessing not, because if you would have then this would have been a Show HN post.

Ask yourself why you are content with doing anything besides the one thing that you should do: Commit to some project and don't give up until it is done?

63 · 4 years ago
What's interesting is that most of these people didn't start with OP's mindset. They didn't say "I want to pour thousands of hours into this one thing until I see results so I can compare myself against other people and feel satisfied." Starting from that mindset is already putting you behind. Doing something because you love doing it and not because you have any expectations will get you there faster, but only if you can do it. It's all survivor bias.
dvh1990 · 4 years ago
I agree with that, but I had to learn this lesson the hard way: By trying to do things I hate.

If you have that belief, sometimes the way to get out of it is to play it out to conclusion.

neop1x · 4 years ago
This is it! I guess often people don't realize how much work it is gonna be when they start. If they did they would have never started working on it. But they may actually like the work or want to improve and learn something new while working on it, maybe the work even gives them a meaning of live. They have an imagination of the final thing and can't wait to see it done. So they work and work and work until they finish it. Days are too short for them, sometimes they are so hooked up they are forgetting to drink enough or eat. That applies to musicians too. First they need a talent (prerequisite) and then they have to play the instrument all days long, repeat the same song over and over again and improve. I think it is not "normal" and most people don't have patience for that. Some people have bad environment and are being distracted too much (by family, noise, social media).
emerged · 4 years ago
It would most often be a Show HN post which then went nowhere. Just because you dedicated a massive amount of time on something doesn’t mean it will be a success. OP perspective still holds even if he’s done the thousands of hours thing multiple times without it panning out.
dvh1990 · 4 years ago
You can't guarantee results, but you can guarantee a good attempt to get results because the latter is under your control.
AuryGlenz · 4 years ago
True. I had one project pan out financially and the other was a complete dud. The wonderful feeling you get when you’re “done” though? That was the same for both.
sanderjd · 4 years ago
This gets at the crux of my angst along the OP's line: When I look at people who have dedicated themselves to that thing that they pored so many hours into, what I always wonder is, "How did they make the decision to put so much of their time into that thing." Like, I agree with OP that the Roller Coaster Tycoon one man project is really impressive. But there's no world in which I could possibly care enough about building a roller coaster video game to put that time in. And besides a precious few things that are ludicrously hard to break into - contributing to cancer research, working on nuclear fusion, space travel, etc. - it's hard for me to imagine pouring my soul into things that require so much commitment.
wakamoleguy · 4 years ago
And that’s ok! I am happier with my current life of balance than I ever would be with that level of singular focus. The hard part is not comparing yourself to people who have made those choices differently than you. I often find myself saying things to myself like “Sure, if I put that time in, maybe I could be like that. But I choose not to, because that is not important to me.”
dvh1990 · 4 years ago
Well how can you find something you like without giving it a serious try first?

I've been playing guitar for 16 years. I'm not pro-level, but I'm as good as I want to be and I love it. Did I love it from the get go? Hell no. I actually hated guitar for the entire first year of practice, but I stuck with it and as I got better I eventually developed a deep love for it.

Trying new things, REALLY trying for long enough to actually get somewhere, is a risk. Question is, are you willing to take such a risk? Or would you rather do the alternative which is sitting and waiting until something compelling falls in your lap?

alfiedotwtf · 4 years ago
> Ask yourself why you are content with doing anything besides the one thing that you should do: Commit to some project and don't give up until it is done?

This!

It sounds like OP wants to be the best basketballer but only plays one game ever second weekend, but then compares themselves to that person who is practicing hoops straight after dinner for 3 hours in the rain.

Turn off your TV, stop watching Netflix, and close that YouTube tab...

Prioritise your goals, pick the top one, spend at least one hour per day towards that first goal until done, then move down that list if there's still time in the day. Repeat!

knuthsat · 4 years ago
This attitude is nice, but unfortunately in most cases it does not apply.

Many people have different sensibilities and tastes. Those that become great alone are extremely talented, gifted and innately know what to filter and how to improve.

Most of us do need some guidance and there's not enough hours of piano playing for us regular folks to discover all of the learning tricks with which we become insanely good.

Programming is hard and just putting in the hours won't help that much, especially now when the whole internet is polluted with unnecessary stuff.

dvh1990 · 4 years ago
I understand where you're coming from, but a person in the situation that the OP is in has only two options: Do nothing, or do something.

Yes, achieving "greatness" is sadly not in the cards for most of us. But to try is a choice anyone can make. In the end, would you rather have tried and failed or not tried at all?

Jensson · 4 years ago
> Each and every person you admire has poured thousands of hours into some project.

Many millions of people you don't admire has poured thousands of hours into some project as well. Time is necessary but far from enough. The time is the easy part, understanding what you should do with that time is the hard part, that is where almost everyone fall.

interfixus · 4 years ago
> the one thing that you should do

You are not being brutally honest, you are just trying to crash this party with your own particular mindset.

dvh1990 · 4 years ago
Perhaps, but I believe it is a mindset worth pushing forward.
dvh1990 · 4 years ago
Reading through the various comments, I wonder what happened to good old-fashioned ambition. Other than my post, all I can see are "it's ok, I feel the same way, don't change" replies.

We used to admire our heroes and try to emulate them, and if fortunate enough, come as close to them as our talents and circumstances would allow. And we did that through hard work, through having lofty goals and working hard to achieve them. Yes, many failed to reach their goals, but ambition and hard work is what built this species, this civilization.

Why are we forsaking that in favor of a "you don't have to try so hard, it's ok to be mediocre" mindset?

Why did we stop trying?

JohnBooty · 4 years ago

    Why are we forsaking that in favor of a "you 
    don't have to try so hard, it's ok to be 
    mediocre" mindset?
One reason many feel is the fact that being "the best" often just means making some crappy corporation richer; when you start to feel that the whole system kind of sucks it gets harder to care about accomplishing things within it.

I grew up wanting to be a game developer, but what would that mean in a practical sense? Working 80 hours a week and at the end of the day I'm just making Microsoft or Activision or somebody richer? Even John Freaking Carmack eventually wound up working for Facebook.

Or going solo, and risking my ability to feed/house myself if things don't work out? Or working 100 hours a week because I'm already working 40-50 at a day job?

Ultimately as we get older those kinds of achievements tend to mean less to us than human connections.

If you hate this kind of thinking and/or feel it's wrong, I'm not here to change your mind. Just mentioning why some feel those kinds of ways.

pedrosorio · 4 years ago
> Working 80 hours a week and at the end of the day I'm just making Microsoft or Activision or somebody richer? Even John Freaking Carmack eventually wound up working for Facebook.

It appears you forgot the original motivation. You wanted to make games. That’s what you’d be doing besides “making a corporation richer”.

Similarly, Carmack is helping to shape the future of VR on the daily. I’m sure that’s why he does it and couldn’t care less how much money any corporation is making based on that.

dvh1990 · 4 years ago
I think it's perfectly fine to say "I'm happy where I am, I don't want more".

But that's not the OPs sentiment. I think that deep inside OP feels entitled to higher achievements than they have been able to reach, and are resentful of the fact that life hasn't been unfolding properly for a person of their talent.

To that I say, how long are you going to nurse your ambition without getting up and doing something about it?

paulpauper · 4 years ago
> One reason many feel is the fact that being "the best" often just means making some crappy corporation richer; when you start to feel that the whole system kind of sucks it gets harder to care about accomplishing things within it.

Ok, google makes billions and you make millions. that is a fine compromise by me.

mbrodersen · 4 years ago
Nothing has changed. I admire lots of people but I don’t want to pay the price needed to achieve similar results. You have to love or at least tolerate the struggle to get results. So pick the struggles you want to have. Don’t pick the results you want to achieve and try to do the work needed. It won’t work.
emerged · 4 years ago
This is such a callous take. OP has clearly spent time doing just that, and has reached a point where any rational agent would question the heuristic and seek advice. Without rational justification the heuristic is nothing other than dogma.
dvh1990 · 4 years ago
This could be called callous, yes, but I urge you to re-read the post. The OP didn't even complete his degree, and haven't done any other worthwhile project that requires some tenacity.
paulpauper · 4 years ago
trying too hard is seen as uncool. We're kinda in an anti-work era in which the notion of having to work too hard or too long at things, is shunned upon.
devchix · 4 years ago
There's more of us than of you. Fuck off, Achilles.

/s - of course.

kokanee · 4 years ago
Watch out! You might be conflating success and happiness. We all know how common it is for professional outliers (be they geniuses, celebrities, athletes, etc) to struggle with depression, loneliness, anxiety, and addiction. In the 1900s becoming a world-class jazz musician was basically a sentence to death in your 40s. Consider the stereotype of the man who devotes everything to his career only to retire bitter, alone, and wealthy. It's all too common.

People are happy when they have meaningful social time with friends and family, when they spend free time building or growing things with their hands, when they are able to be active and healthy, and when their basic physical needs are met. Once your career is able to reliably cover your basic needs, the next thing to optimize for is freeing up your time. Unless your passions in life are truly aligned with your career, and you're able to stave off burnout, I see few compelling reasons to make your profession your legacy.

mgkimsal · 4 years ago
A couple years ago, I came to terms with the fact that I wasn't going to be a Beatle. My family and friends had come to terms with that fact 30 years earlier - it just took me a little longer...

"but I can’t convince myself that these traits are actually true. I feel untalented, empty and dumb."

They probably are 'true' in some sense, but that doesn't mean you can't feel untalented/empty/etc at the same time. Appearing to be 'creative' and 'in learning mode' is how other people see you - feeling untalented/empty is how you see your self. They can both be true at the same time. But your feelings about yourself aren't the whole truth, and they can (and will) change over time too, just like other people's views of you may change, depending on you, the other people, and other factors outside of everyone's control.

Maybe you should stare out of the window for a while - I don't mean forever, but it seems like you're trying to engage in some self reflection, and that can take time. And 'wasting' time is often not seen as a good thing by others, or indeed ourselves. I struggle often with trying to give myself some 'time off' for anything.

With all that said, you dropped a bomb in the last paragraph about medication. There's no doubt in my mind that this is a contributing factor to your mental health state (it might be a positive factor, but it's certainly in the mix). and as such, you should also be seeking out some folks with experience with these medications.

xtracto · 4 years ago
You touch an important point tangentially: Most of these issues are mainly cultural.

I'm in/from Mexico. And I've had the chance to live a d experience lots of different cultures (while living in Europe for 8 years).

American culture has this idea of ruthless working extra productivity/ how to churn as much as possible in little time. Very competitive.

But in other cultures (mexican, german, spanish, serbian/Croatian etc) theres a culture of more easy living. Work to live instead of live to work . Men's ambitions are to raise a healthy family, while in an 9 to 5 (or 7 to 3) job and go back to enjoy the evening with family, friends, tv. People get born, grow old and die having lived good lifes with that.