That's cool, but it's also several hundred dollars more expensive. I feel like the $200US price point really brings thing like this down to another level. Not exactly 'disposable', but more like a small appliance rather than something you've got to really look after.
With obscure form factors, you’re lucky if anything fits your needs. I simply want a tablet with Linux pre-installed, I’d pay iPad price for one if it existed. Pine 64 is nice and I’ll probably buy a few when they come out to play with. But it’s too underpowered to be a daily driver.
This project, well I can’t imagine why they spent all that time cramming a keyboard into it.
I was really interested in that and so very nearly backed it but was wary of the software support. Can you elaborate on the Debian issues? Would you still recommend one? (I don't care about telephone features)
I have one. It is, indeed, like the Second Coming of the Psion 5 ... only it got released a bit too early: the Gemini feels a bit public beta to me.
I am eagerly awaiting the successor, the Cosmo Communicator (which is locked for shipping via Indiegogo: some are already trickling out). Faster, better, more refined by all accounts. But it's not a $200 toy, even at the early bird kickstarter price: all the smartphone features added overheads.
I have the GPD Pocket 1 for these purposes; it's fast, it runs Windows, Linux and Android. I run Linux (Ubuntu/i3) on it. It has phenomenal battery life and it's fast enough to do reasonable .NET Core development on in cramped spaces or when my laptop is empty.
I owned the Gemini as well, but, before it got stolen, I was going to sell it because Linux on that device did not really work for me while Android was not productive (for me).
Yeah, GPD's handheld PCs are IMO better than these ARM-based computers since they are (mostly) regular x86 PCs in tiny size and i can run my existing x86/x64 applications and games with them (of which i have thousands). Though when it comes to games i prefer the GPD Win.
Honestly every time i learn about any handheld computer or gaming device i do a quick comparison in my mind with GPD's computers and outside of price the latter pretty much always come out winners (largely because they have zero competition in the real-PC-in-your-pocket space).
Last I checked no 4g/SMS/calls with debian. Same old driver story of why we only have android phones and not Linux phones. Fixing that was/is the big promise of the librem 5.
I was eager to hear more about the Popcorn, but after reading the specs, it doesn't really meet my needs. However, if I can install Linux on the Gemini, that looks like a perfect fit! Thanks for reminding me of that.
I loved my PocketCHIP, right up to when the software stopped getting updates, and the company ghosted everyone with hundreds of waiting orders.
I still have it, but getting it working again is a couple weekend's of work. (Which makes me somewhat doubt the simultaneous claims of mainline Debian _and_ based on the same underlying hardware as the CHIP.)
I love the form factor that these kinds of computers present. However, the promise of a decent production line will always ring hollow. Many of these companies have popped out, had a small run, and vanished, leaving the customer with a paperweight or a security risk.
Upon seeing this project I immediately searched the HN thread for fellow PocketCHIP owners. Mine's still on my shelf next to a few other handheld Linux portables that showed promise, but ended up with poor support and no updates. The real clincher for me is eMMC storage - with no way to back up or modify the storage other than their web-based flasher, the CHIP was a headache and a half to deal with, compared to other microSD-card-based SBCs, which are simple to backup and restore when needed.
I'd love to have a device like this with the longevity of a Thinkpad (still using mine from 2012) or at least my Nexus 5 (2013, and still in use!) but it seems after a year or so these all just get abandoned.
Mine's lying half dead in my drawer. It needs to be reflashed. It really was exactly what I wanted - apart from the terrible support which turns it into a dreaded chore. I used it enough I had to repair the ctrl+shift keys (well, the caps) from clear overuse.
Though, one of these weekends I'll get around to using these [0][1] to make it work again.
The web-based flasher really was the pits to deal with (forced to flash via Chrome was such a terrible experience). Thank goodness someone got a hold of the actual flasher before it all went up in smoke.
The big problem with mainline support for the CHIP is that it uses raw flash directly connected to the SoC - and to make matters worse, on many boards that's MLC flash which is particularly nasty and is very firmly not supported by mainline Linux. This seems to dodge that problem by using eMMC with a built-in controller.
Not quite a pocket pc, but famously and recently, the librem 5[0]. My comment below wishing them luck hinted at this, it's almost expected for them to falter during delivery, ghost everyone and disappear because it has become a sadly familiar pattern around these open source electronics in small factor (phones, pocket pcs and the like).
Smartphones solved the portable monitor problem. What humanity needs now is a truly portable keyboard. Something that you can carry as easily as a smartphone and that lets you type as conveniently as on a good laptop keyboard.
If you were talking about yourself only, I'd agree. But since you name humanity, one thing must be very clear: most people don't like keyboards. That's something that holds in "the developed world". Outside of the ASCII-world, that might be even more so.
Smartphone keyboards with glide typing function very well for language (i.e., no passwords and no programming). They have an important feature: they provide the input you want, not exactly characters for the keypresses you did.
If you consider the Chinese language, many people use the input either by drawing (elderly people) or with Pinyin, a phonetics script. In both cases there's a lot of software involved to figure out what people want.
The point is: programmers are a tiny minority who need exactly the characters for the keys they presses. Most other people just need text in their native language.
> Smartphone keyboards with glide typing function very well for language (i.e., no passwords and no programming). They have an important feature: they provide the input you want, not exactly characters for the keypresses you did.
If only. Because when people write nonsensical sentences and you ask what’s going on, the reply is usually "sorry, on mobile".
While mobile keyboards are "alright" for messaging where you can get away with errors, they're not the kind of thing you want to be using for prolonged periods, ie. writing documents or long emails. They're slow, error prone, and tiring because of the unnatural thumb movements.
For any significant amount of typing and where accuracy is needed (a single letter wrong is more understandable than being replace with a similar dictionary word), keyboards are still preferred.
That's awesome, think I might get that and stash it in my car.
Now all I'd need is to figure out how I wanted access to my env. Eg, being able to ssh into a home machine and then work in emergencies seems valuable. But, that would involve exposing my machine. Hmm
I do almost all of my programming on it now. I think if I upgrade my phone to a bigger screen then this keyboard could mean I ditch the laptop when I travel
I still love my Thinkoutside keyboard https://www.cnet.com/reviews/think-outside-stowaway-universa... had it since my Nokia E61 and use it weekly. Only issue I've had so far has been that the photo support finally broke, other than that it works like new. Really great size to type on, decent travel and folds down to a great size.
I still have my Thinkoutside keyboard from the Dell Axim days as well. I’ve tried a few more recent folding keyboards, but nothing has met the rigidity, compactness, and key feel of that old thing. It was truly a magical product for its time.
I have a Tap keyboard. The mouse is phenomenal. The tapping keyboard takes some getting used to. With a full keyboard nearby, there's no justification for the cost in speed. But I'm working on a wearable computer now that I expect the Tap to be perfect for.
For a literal definition of promising Kickstarter is busy seperating fools from their money, most seem to falter at moving past the concept video stage though. Tap apparently nearly works: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/3/8/17096786/ta...
Of course one of the big problems is that our portable monitors still need at least one of our finite set of hands, so it seems like we'll need AR/VR monitors before they become practical. But then if we have the free hands something more like a traditional keyboard would probably work.
Was looking at these micro pc's and one of the more annoying things is that `|' is not in its usual location. I was hoping to install linux on one and having the pipe in a nonstandard place might take getting used to.
I feel the keyboard on these kind of computers in general need much work. They feel very low effort and look bad in comparison to many 90s palmtops.
What also bothers me is the high price of these kind of computers. While I am sure there are people who appreciate that kind of power, I rather have something much more low spec but at a massively reduced price. Having a command line and simple tools for writing/coding does not need much horse power and a sub $200 would be much easier to justify on a second or third computer as $500+
I have a GPD Pocket. The keyboard does take some getting used to. More problematically it's essentially unusable if you have chunky fingers due to the small key size. It's fine for me, but about 1 in 3 of my male friends really struggle with it.
It's perfect for travelling for me. I just wish it was slightly speedier and that it had a better trackpoint (which later models have sadly removed entirely).
USB-C headphones? Why not throw in a real 3.5 mm port? For me it's not just about having to use a dongle: USB-C doesn't provide a reliable enough connection for a wearable device.
I've acquired a Hyperkeyboardpi[0] kit, not yet built. But essentially its a keyboard add on for a raspberry pi which when paired with a Hyperpixel 4.0 touchscreen from Pimoroni makes a little handheld terminal. It's designed for a Pi 3 but I'm trying a Pi 4. I'll see how I get on. The keyboard kit is only available in Japan but there are shipping companies that will forward it for you.
Something I'm interested in is a knock-about computer for child with a text editor and a programming language. Robust enough to put in a pocket. A hinge, or larger machine, or something more expensive, would be too risky. A Raspberry Pi is great and cheap but a bit fiddly.
Of course the 'computer' experience should be more diverse thant this, but having a dedicated machine feels like the equivalent of having book without distractions.
When I was a child I had a second-hand BBC Micro for distraction-free programming. We had a Mac for other fun stuff, but I kept coming back to the BBC. I'd love to be able to provide that experience.
The keyboard looks unsuitable for programming (even though it has the squishy lineage of the ZX Spectrum), but I'm very tempted.
I also desire the ideal of education for children, so am perhaps biased, but genuinely I believe it is an underserved market. Look at the cash flowing at Makeblock and similar startups. It's definitely something that could work, if the ecosystem / materials are substantial enough. Consider BASIC era: C64, etc. It's workable. There will always be a need for low level comprehension. ASM is a thought process, not a skill per se. Co-develop an oldies interface as a replacement for Sodoku, with Zachtronics to broaden the market. AFAIK this would really gel with: eg. Jaron Lanier, Alak Kay.
If there’s any object in human experience that’s a precedent for what a computer should be like, it’s a musical instrument: a device where you can explore a huge range of possibilities through an interface that connects your mind and your body, allowing you to be emotionally authentic and expressive. - Jaron Lanier
Inverse vandalism: Making things just because you can. - Alan Kay
Adults think that the best thing you can do for a child is to turn the child out like them. Think about that, that's got to be one of the dumbest ideas ever. - Alan Kay
By far the best way to invent a healthy future is to invent the children who will invent it. - Alan Kay
I made up these slogans because I discovered most adults couldn't deal with paragraphs. - Alan Kay
Can this or any similar device also be used as an external monitor? I built a new home server the other day, and as I didn't want to lug around a 40" desktop monitor to the small nook at the other end of the house, I ended up using an old 480p projector as a screen, despite having so many laptops, phones, tablets etc lying around with perfectly fine screens (with built in battery power to boot!). Is this not a feature anyone else would like? I've been looking at portable screens, and they're starting to appear (Asus Zenscreen), but I just wish I could jack into the screen of another device temporarily at times.
Cool device, and would be even cooler if I could use just the monitor on it.
At first you need to get far enough that you have an sshd running. Down the line you might need to make BIOS changes, fiddle with the storage controller card, or unbork GRUB.
99% of the time remote is fine though, which again is why it's stashed away in a nook at the other end of the house.
Readit News
I've been running Android on it, but it also runs Debian apparently very well.
400dpi screen, enough to have 2 / 3 consoles open at the same time. It's most definitely saved my bacon a few times.
This project, well I can’t imagine why they spent all that time cramming a keyboard into it.
If you want a linux PC in your pocket, you can just install Debian on many Android phones.
I backed it there, travelled for almost a year on a bicycle with the Gemini in a bag and it's still running.
The Debian distro has its issues, though...
Edit: no wonder, Martin Riddiford, who worked on Psion 5 Series worked on Gemini as well.
I am eagerly awaiting the successor, the Cosmo Communicator (which is locked for shipping via Indiegogo: some are already trickling out). Faster, better, more refined by all accounts. But it's not a $200 toy, even at the early bird kickstarter price: all the smartphone features added overheads.
I owned the Gemini as well, but, before it got stolen, I was going to sell it because Linux on that device did not really work for me while Android was not productive (for me).
Honestly every time i learn about any handheld computer or gaming device i do a quick comparison in my mind with GPD's computers and outside of price the latter pretty much always come out winners (largely because they have zero competition in the real-PC-in-your-pocket space).
I still have it, but getting it working again is a couple weekend's of work. (Which makes me somewhat doubt the simultaneous claims of mainline Debian _and_ based on the same underlying hardware as the CHIP.)
I love the form factor that these kinds of computers present. However, the promise of a decent production line will always ring hollow. Many of these companies have popped out, had a small run, and vanished, leaving the customer with a paperweight or a security risk.
I'd love to have a device like this with the longevity of a Thinkpad (still using mine from 2012) or at least my Nexus 5 (2013, and still in use!) but it seems after a year or so these all just get abandoned.
Though, one of these weekends I'll get around to using these [0][1] to make it work again.
The web-based flasher really was the pits to deal with (forced to flash via Chrome was such a terrible experience). Thank goodness someone got a hold of the actual flasher before it all went up in smoke.
[0] https://archive.org/details/C.h.i.p.FlashCollection
[1] https://github.com/SaltyCybernaut/PocketCHIP-flash-utils
[0] https://jaylittle.com/post/view/2019/10/the-sad-saga-of-puri...
HN comments: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21369733
Are there any promising attempts at this?
Smartphone keyboards with glide typing function very well for language (i.e., no passwords and no programming). They have an important feature: they provide the input you want, not exactly characters for the keypresses you did.
If you consider the Chinese language, many people use the input either by drawing (elderly people) or with Pinyin, a phonetics script. In both cases there's a lot of software involved to figure out what people want.
The point is: programmers are a tiny minority who need exactly the characters for the keys they presses. Most other people just need text in their native language.
Google wrote about reaching "the next billion users": https://www.blog.google/technology/next-billion-users/next-b...
If only. Because when people write nonsensical sentences and you ask what’s going on, the reply is usually "sorry, on mobile".
While mobile keyboards are "alright" for messaging where you can get away with errors, they're not the kind of thing you want to be using for prolonged periods, ie. writing documents or long emails. They're slow, error prone, and tiring because of the unnatural thumb movements.
For any significant amount of typing and where accuracy is needed (a single letter wrong is more understandable than being replace with a similar dictionary word), keyboards are still preferred.
I have literally never been able to make those work acceptably well.
[1]: https://www.iclever.com/products/BK05-Tri-Folding-Bluetooth-... [2]: http://www.blink.sh/
Now all I'd need is to figure out how I wanted access to my env. Eg, being able to ssh into a home machine and then work in emergencies seems valuable. But, that would involve exposing my machine. Hmm
I’ve recently installed Codeserver on a digital ocean server - https://github.com/cdr/code-server
I do almost all of my programming on it now. I think if I upgrade my phone to a bigger screen then this keyboard could mean I ditch the laptop when I travel
https://twiddler.tekgear.com/
> 200 bucks
Why?
Real shame they stopped making them ages ago.
[0]: http://www.vortexgear.tw/vortex2_2.asp?kind=47&kind2=224&kin...
I am tired of having peripherals with built in proprietary batteries :(
Of course one of the big problems is that our portable monitors still need at least one of our finite set of hands, so it seems like we'll need AR/VR monitors before they become practical. But then if we have the free hands something more like a traditional keyboard would probably work.
They had a battery controller issue initially with the Indiegogo batch, but that has been solved on the ones you can get from Amazon now.
What also bothers me is the high price of these kind of computers. While I am sure there are people who appreciate that kind of power, I rather have something much more low spec but at a massively reduced price. Having a command line and simple tools for writing/coding does not need much horse power and a sub $200 would be much easier to justify on a second or third computer as $500+
It's perfect for travelling for me. I just wish it was slightly speedier and that it had a better trackpoint (which later models have sadly removed entirely).
[0] https://www.telnet.jp/~mia/sb/log/eid317.html
[1] https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/hyperpixel-4?variant=1256...
Of course the 'computer' experience should be more diverse thant this, but having a dedicated machine feels like the equivalent of having book without distractions.
When I was a child I had a second-hand BBC Micro for distraction-free programming. We had a Mac for other fun stuff, but I kept coming back to the BBC. I'd love to be able to provide that experience.
The keyboard looks unsuitable for programming (even though it has the squishy lineage of the ZX Spectrum), but I'm very tempted.
If there’s any object in human experience that’s a precedent for what a computer should be like, it’s a musical instrument: a device where you can explore a huge range of possibilities through an interface that connects your mind and your body, allowing you to be emotionally authentic and expressive. - Jaron Lanier
Inverse vandalism: Making things just because you can. - Alan Kay
Adults think that the best thing you can do for a child is to turn the child out like them. Think about that, that's got to be one of the dumbest ideas ever. - Alan Kay
By far the best way to invent a healthy future is to invent the children who will invent it. - Alan Kay
I made up these slogans because I discovered most adults couldn't deal with paragraphs. - Alan Kay
... from https://github.com/globalcitizen/taoup
Cool device, and would be even cooler if I could use just the monitor on it.
99% of the time remote is fine though, which again is why it's stashed away in a nook at the other end of the house.