I've been burned by the Amazon Affiliate Program on three separate occasions, and as a result I would not recommend it to anyone else. All three cases were for completely legitimate, high-quality websites that I created (all original content, decent traffic, good conversion rates, no gimmicks). Each time, I would be approved for the program, generate a few hundred dollars in referred sales over the space of weeks or months, and then Amazon would send me a message that my account had been terminated (and of course, no way to get any of the commission I had earned).
Each time, they pointed me to a part of the agreement that says you need to have "original content" that isn't primarily just ads. In each case, I know the content was original (I created it: mostly articles about DIY electronics, 3D printing, etc), there were no other ads on the sites other than a few (2 or 3 per page) affiliate links where I mentioned products that I had incorporated into my own DIY projects.
I wasn't able to get any further explanation from Amazon in these cases, so I don't even know why they kept shutting down my accounts - and I guess that's what concerns me the most. Even if they hadn't shut me down when they did, the fact remains that they could, at any point in time, shut down or significantly alter the terms of our "agreement" at their (seemingly arbitrary) will.
That sounds plausible. I believe content supplemented by YouTube videos may help in such situations. The fact that there is publish date (I hope you can't change), it is unlikely someone can claim your content.
Same boat here. We run an ecommerce marketplace that was sending a few hundred thousand of leads to Amazon every month. After a few years they shut us down for a minor infraction to ToS (which we fixed immediately upon being notified). No recourse to get account reinstated, in spite of us trying numerous avenues. And for good measure, they took the $15k worth of affiliate revenue they already owed us but hadn't yet paid out. Classy.
My conclusion: it's nice revenue while you can get it, but that probably won't be very long. Make money with their program and they're coming for you.
Sorry to hear. Unfortunately in the affiliate world once you get big they tend to fuck you over. Knew a guy who was making 50k per day on an affiliate network, they shut his ass down fast and kept all the money. It's best to create your own marketplace where you are in charge - this is what I'm currently working on.
I would not recommend building a business on the affiliate model to anyone, unless they don't mind having virtually zero control.
eBay and Amazon are particularly notorious for draconian "enforcement" and sudden changes in terms and/or payouts.
Also, be aware that coupon and rebate sites generate the overwhelming majority of commissions across networks. While programs claim to want content, that's not where the real money or priority lies.
That's a known problem with affiliate marketing. Whoever you are shilling^Wadvertising for has you by the balls. It's in their TOS that they can refuse to pay out your commission for almost any reason you can think of. They can also lower your payout using software that shaves away a portion of your leads.
Don't like it? Don't do affiliate marketing. Because there is nothing you can do about it.
Yikes; usually one really bad experience that costs me more than $100 or so is enough to sour me on a company/service entirely, full stop. You are much more patient than I would've been.
"An attitude I can do whatever I can is not a healthy way of relationship." - they are Amazon, they can do whatever they want; they do this stuff all the time. Arbitrary shutdowns, clueless "support" staff, lack of communication, meaningless replies, seizing funds, and general unethical behavior is par for the course with Amazon.
I remember them changing some kind of agreement at one point, and because I didn't see it and fill out some extensive form in time, they just disabled my account permanently.
It's a pretty weird treatment, but I think that companies just don't give a shit when it comes to fraud prevention and don't allow any wiggle room.
Some interesting takeaways further down in the OP's answers:
- Has "zero" web dev experience; everything is built on Wordpress and plugins.
- Gets "a couple hundred thousand PV/mo"
- He picked an broad niche that he himself doesn't particularly care about.
- Amazon's change to their commission rates last month hurt his income by about 25-30%
I found this part amusing:
> I filled my site with a few dozen high quality pieces of content, then started outreaching to other bloggers in my niche, either asking for a guest post or asking them to check out a piece of content/infographic I just created and asking them if they'd "share" (link) it with their audience (aka the skyscraper technique).
I get these goddamned emails every week, sometimes a dozen from the same person asking me to mention their blog post about SQL because I happen to have a page that ranks fairly high for some general SQL info apparently. Never thought the SEO actually paid off (these request emails look like they're generated from a template that can be easily automated(.
I'm interested in getting started with Amazons affiliate program. Whenever I go to research things, I find many stories like this one. But I don't want to pursue this track. I have dev experience, don't want to pay for views, want to write in a narrow niche I enjoy, and I don't care about the lower commissions to boot. I'd be beyond thrilled if I made made more than a hundred bucks a month.
Where can I find information about this path, versus the substanceless course this person took? I haven't had a public website in a decade and just want to know how to do things decently well and not get into trouble.
One tip for not getting into trouble is to not use SSL on the site you are sending traffic from (or use a referrer policy meta tag so that the browser is authorized to pass the referrer from your SSL page). SSL results in blank referrers by default. A friend had his Amazon account banned and earnings confiscated because his traffic had blank referrers.
If you don't care about the financial aspect then just do it. You don't need more information. Just write about the niche, link to high quality products, and build it.
There's a story about a fan talking to Jerry Seinfeld and saying basically, "I want to be a comedian, how can I do it?" having never done an open mic or told a public joke in any way. Seinfeld's response was that they were never going to make it, because if they had any chance of making it they'd already be doing the open mics, etc.
the not get into trouble thing is easy, if you want to be an Amazon affiliate, just follow their terms of service to the letter of the law.
here is how you make money with amazon. find a niche you are passionate about, it helps if it is something with relevant amazon products. start blogging until you find you are getting inbound backlinks, comments, or other "social proof."
once that happens you can start writign guides, roundups, etc and placing product links. from there its all about getting links, and promoting yourself any way you can.
FYI, I did what you want to do. On my personal website I write about my hobby projects that often include Amazon products. (I pretty much do all my shopping on Amazon, so anything I used in my projects is usually from them).
I simply link to the products using my affiliate link and thats it. I also make it very clear that it is an affiliate link.
When I first write a post I usually make $200 - $500 a month (even more if its around Christmas time)
Hey there! I don't make very much on affiliate links but I've kind of done what you want to do on my personal website. I'm a big reader so I post links to what I read and have made a specialized reading list for physics. The affiliate money is just enough each month to cover the hosting cost for the site and to buy 2-4 new books each month, so it sustains my reading (and writing) habit!
For me, number one takeaway is, "he has a worker paid 600/700 usd per month (superstar)" who I suppose is generating much more value than 7% (700 of 10000).
In the beginning, his copywriter made the same 0.05$/word and the poster was making 0$/month.
So the copywriter has shouldered no risk either. He's also free to try and get more per word but he might be in a place where 0.05USD/word is actually pretty decent income.
That is working for someone vs owning something. It wouldn't make much sense otherwise for either party.
I mean, imagine you work for a company and come up with a change that saves a million a year. Surely you don't expect to receive that million, do you? On the other hand, it's not your problem if sales go down this quarter, since your contract pays fixed salary.
>> Never thought the SEO actually paid off (these request emails look like they're generated from a template that can be easily automated(.
There are services out there that make it really easy to manage blogger outreach, PR outreach, link building requests, etc. Sites like Pitchbox and Buzzstream.
> Has "zero" web dev experience; everything is built on Wordpress and plugins.
So what that sounds like to me is this website is just a delivery vector for whatever cookie cutter malware is floating around the ad networks who load up the sidebar.
So he's making $10k a month, and his trick, he says, is to have "high-quality, exceptional quality" content. But he does not write this content himself; rather, he pays $700 to "an expert copywriter in my niche [...] (he's a superstar)".
Seems like the real trick is to find someone talented but unaware of how much money they can generate on their own, and use their work to make money.
Now clearly, he's adding value, since that writer alone wouldn't know how to turn their writing into $10k a month. But I wonder if that writer is aware that their work is generating that much, and that they're only seeing 7% of it.
The core tenant of getting ahead massively in a capitalist society -- arbitrage. Exploitation of inequality of knowledge and/or opportunity is always a faster ticket to success than actually producing anything of value.
Ah yes, but the more arbitrage exists, the higher the incentive for another entity to learn and exploit it. The first guy cuts it in half, the next by a quarter, and so on, until normal profits emerge. Being ahead of the curve has a bonus, but it can't last forever in usual circumstances.
I think the real core tenet of capitalism is specialization - it is impossible for everyone to know everything. Mix multiple services into one, package it in a way that is ideal for a certain consumer, and the "arbitrage" is really just another word for convenience.
Not really, he is paying for good quality content. But the content itself is not what is making the money. The traffic reading the content is where the revenue is generated. His trick to generating traffic is to pay for high-quality content, and then he executes an SEO link building campaign, and pay for some advertising. Unless the writer also wants to do the SEO part, and also pay for ads, his writing is kind of worthless.
If you've ever tried to execute a link building campaign, you'd quickly realize it's VERY difficult.
The trick usually can't be told. I used to make money with adsense writing "high quality blog posts". The trick was to pingback Google own blogs, and when I do, they add a link to my blog post just right below their blog post. This would drive high quality traffic (probably because these users are already signed up to google and get targeted ads).
The trick now is no longer of use, and I did this like 6 or 7 years ago. So now I'm sharing it. I've been involved in the SEO industry from when it was young, and I'd make a 9.5/10 bet that this guy is doing something grey/black hat to generate that kind of volume/conversion/money.
Those who doesn't use grey/black hat tricks have probably built a page rank valuable enough. You can't rebuild that virtual SEO estate in a couple days, maybe a few 3 or 4 years of hard work and maintenance. So you are back at square one when you need money today.
This is like, make the product and they will come. Making the product is only a small part of the equation.
The other aspects (promotion, choosing right niche etc) are most overlooked...
> Seems like the real trick is to find someone talented but unaware of how much money they can generate on their own, and use their work to make money.
Dude could have just as easily (probably far more likely) have paid his writer for 6-8 months and ended up with a dud site. Writer is free to take that risk as well if he so chooses. Instead he's taking the less risky fixed payment.
He says that the copywriter writes 1 or 2 articles every week. He gets paid an average of 100$ per article. That's' not bad if you consider that the writer, for sure, is working for other people as well.
If I was going to spend this much time and effort creating content and building a site, I'd certainly not be sending the traffic and sales over to Amazon.
I'd most likely be drop-shipping products or actually carrying some inventory and then doing the shipping myself.
In the long run, it's much easier to sell a profitable business than sell an affiliate site. With the traffic and search engine rankings, I'd do a few things:
- Transition out of being an Amazon affiliate and start selling your own products, even if that means drop shipping or carrying inventory
- Change the overall look and feel of the site so that it's a real business with brand
- Use alternative methods of getting traffic to the site, other than Google organic search results. Develop an email list/email newsletter, test out FB ads and other paid search alternatives.
If you build a brand and actual store (rather than being an affiliate), it's a lot easier to cash out later on.
I was going to suggest maybe the guy involved wasn't interested in flipping the business & was happy working 5 hours a week and being able to run the business from anywhere.
However, the OP replied to this same comment over on Reddit [1]:
This seems like a cheap way to make money. You're basically filling Google search results with garbage. If I'm looking for recipes I want to be directed to Kitchn or Serious Eats or Chowhoud - no some blogspam site with tupperware container links.
Searching for things on Google is useless when the first 3 pages are just pages full of affiliate links and no real content. I don't know why they don't eliminate those pages from their rankings, or at least score them lower.
What if the site is genuinely useful, though? I like The Wirecutter for technology opinions, and affiliate links are the only way they make money. It seems like a win-win(-win) to me, if the products are actually things the visitors want to buy. They're a more informed and more satisfied consumer, Amazon (or whoever) gets another sale, and the blogger gets a commission.
There's a big distinction between The Wirecutter and other sites, though. The Wirecutter specifically goes out of its way to do in depth testing with set criteria and standards for their suggestions. If you look at their headphones reviews, they typically compare several models with a variety of audio experts to validate their choices.
If another site can come up with that kind of high intensity writing, that's one thing. It's completely different if it's just a random person doing it -- that's at best the opinion of one person who's done work. At worst, someone lied and wrote a recipe or an article without doing any actual testing or research.
I'm perfectly fine with that. Serious Eats uses affiliate links (and also has other advertising on their site). I have a ton of respect for the work it takes to do what they do.
What I'm not okay with is someone building tons of Wordpress sites and filling them with stock photos of food and recipes they found online, and linking to Amazon.
I'm sorry but I call bullsh*t on a lot of aspects on this story. I think this may have been true 5-10 years ago, but not now, not the way the Web works now. Everyone ignores those cross-link e-mails. Getting the amount of articles he says is NOT enough; you need more. You just don't get high-quality content for .05 cents a word. And that's just for starters. I know, why would this person lie? But really, for those of us who do the Web day in, day out, there's a lot that just does not ring true in this post.
Readit News
Each time, they pointed me to a part of the agreement that says you need to have "original content" that isn't primarily just ads. In each case, I know the content was original (I created it: mostly articles about DIY electronics, 3D printing, etc), there were no other ads on the sites other than a few (2 or 3 per page) affiliate links where I mentioned products that I had incorporated into my own DIY projects.
I wasn't able to get any further explanation from Amazon in these cases, so I don't even know why they kept shutting down my accounts - and I guess that's what concerns me the most. Even if they hadn't shut me down when they did, the fact remains that they could, at any point in time, shut down or significantly alter the terms of our "agreement" at their (seemingly arbitrary) will.
It's happened before; there was a HN post on it. Sorry can't remember the details off-hand.
My conclusion: it's nice revenue while you can get it, but that probably won't be very long. Make money with their program and they're coming for you.
eBay and Amazon are particularly notorious for draconian "enforcement" and sudden changes in terms and/or payouts.
Also, be aware that coupon and rebate sites generate the overwhelming majority of commissions across networks. While programs claim to want content, that's not where the real money or priority lies.
Don't like it? Don't do affiliate marketing. Because there is nothing you can do about it.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/shopping/the-arbitration-...
It's a pretty weird treatment, but I think that companies just don't give a shit when it comes to fraud prevention and don't allow any wiggle room.
- Has "zero" web dev experience; everything is built on Wordpress and plugins.
- Gets "a couple hundred thousand PV/mo"
- He picked an broad niche that he himself doesn't particularly care about.
- Amazon's change to their commission rates last month hurt his income by about 25-30%
I found this part amusing:
> I filled my site with a few dozen high quality pieces of content, then started outreaching to other bloggers in my niche, either asking for a guest post or asking them to check out a piece of content/infographic I just created and asking them if they'd "share" (link) it with their audience (aka the skyscraper technique).
I get these goddamned emails every week, sometimes a dozen from the same person asking me to mention their blog post about SQL because I happen to have a page that ranks fairly high for some general SQL info apparently. Never thought the SEO actually paid off (these request emails look like they're generated from a template that can be easily automated(.
Where can I find information about this path, versus the substanceless course this person took? I haven't had a public website in a decade and just want to know how to do things decently well and not get into trouble.
There's a story about a fan talking to Jerry Seinfeld and saying basically, "I want to be a comedian, how can I do it?" having never done an open mic or told a public joke in any way. Seinfeld's response was that they were never going to make it, because if they had any chance of making it they'd already be doing the open mics, etc.
Just start the site. Write/review, and enjoy.
here is how you make money with amazon. find a niche you are passionate about, it helps if it is something with relevant amazon products. start blogging until you find you are getting inbound backlinks, comments, or other "social proof."
once that happens you can start writign guides, roundups, etc and placing product links. from there its all about getting links, and promoting yourself any way you can.
I simply link to the products using my affiliate link and thats it. I also make it very clear that it is an affiliate link.
When I first write a post I usually make $200 - $500 a month (even more if its around Christmas time)
So the copywriter has shouldered no risk either. He's also free to try and get more per word but he might be in a place where 0.05USD/word is actually pretty decent income.
I mean, imagine you work for a company and come up with a change that saves a million a year. Surely you don't expect to receive that million, do you? On the other hand, it's not your problem if sales go down this quarter, since your contract pays fixed salary.
It not only pays off for the ad-fueled sites, it's also the only way up in rankings for a product site.
No matter how good your software is – unless it went viral you'll be annoying people with link building emails.
So what that sounds like to me is this website is just a delivery vector for whatever cookie cutter malware is floating around the ad networks who load up the sidebar.
Seems like the real trick is to find someone talented but unaware of how much money they can generate on their own, and use their work to make money.
Now clearly, he's adding value, since that writer alone wouldn't know how to turn their writing into $10k a month. But I wonder if that writer is aware that their work is generating that much, and that they're only seeing 7% of it.
I think the real core tenet of capitalism is specialization - it is impossible for everyone to know everything. Mix multiple services into one, package it in a way that is ideal for a certain consumer, and the "arbitrage" is really just another word for convenience.
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tenet
If you've ever tried to execute a link building campaign, you'd quickly realize it's VERY difficult.
Deleted Comment
The trick now is no longer of use, and I did this like 6 or 7 years ago. So now I'm sharing it. I've been involved in the SEO industry from when it was young, and I'd make a 9.5/10 bet that this guy is doing something grey/black hat to generate that kind of volume/conversion/money.
Those who doesn't use grey/black hat tricks have probably built a page rank valuable enough. You can't rebuild that virtual SEO estate in a couple days, maybe a few 3 or 4 years of hard work and maintenance. So you are back at square one when you need money today.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_asymmetry
I'm one of those schmucks hired to generate content for $600/pop. My thing is React Native. (http://reactnative.school)
But it's fun and it helps my own brand too. Plus it's an excuse to learn cool shit. Building a new app every 2 weeks is fun :)
That's the basis of capitalism in a nutshell.
Dead Comment
> an expert copywriter in my niche who I pay about $600-$700 per month (he's a superstar).
> we're talking about $9,200-$10,200/mo in pure profit
Honestly the only thing I get out of this post is that to me it seems like his superstar copywriter is being ripped off.
Clearly I'm not cut out for entrepreneurial side hustle!
I'd most likely be drop-shipping products or actually carrying some inventory and then doing the shipping myself.
In the long run, it's much easier to sell a profitable business than sell an affiliate site. With the traffic and search engine rankings, I'd do a few things:
- Transition out of being an Amazon affiliate and start selling your own products, even if that means drop shipping or carrying inventory
- Change the overall look and feel of the site so that it's a real business with brand
- Use alternative methods of getting traffic to the site, other than Google organic search results. Develop an email list/email newsletter, test out FB ads and other paid search alternatives.
If you build a brand and actual store (rather than being an affiliate), it's a lot easier to cash out later on.
However, the OP replied to this same comment over on Reddit [1]:
"Great feedback, and I agree. eComm is Phase 2."
[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/6lmotf/i_make...
Searching for things on Google is useless when the first 3 pages are just pages full of affiliate links and no real content. I don't know why they don't eliminate those pages from their rankings, or at least score them lower.
If another site can come up with that kind of high intensity writing, that's one thing. It's completely different if it's just a random person doing it -- that's at best the opinion of one person who's done work. At worst, someone lied and wrote a recipe or an article without doing any actual testing or research.
I'm perfectly fine with that. Serious Eats uses affiliate links (and also has other advertising on their site). I have a ton of respect for the work it takes to do what they do.
What I'm not okay with is someone building tons of Wordpress sites and filling them with stock photos of food and recipes they found online, and linking to Amazon.