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chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
raylad · 3 years ago
You misunderstand me. I am actually referring to katakana and hiragana, not kanji.

Just having to learn those first will stop a large percentage of people who would otherwise be able to learn to talk reasonably well.

chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
I'm going to add some ability to display things in romaji in the future, so users can start on some of the actual sentences before completing hiragana/katakana. Agree that getting through all the characters before starting anything else is not motivating.
chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
jalapenos · 3 years ago
This is great. I'm not going to recommend porting to web (or android) because it's too obvious :). Maybe buy out his existing other assets too?

But if you aligned it with the JLPT I would subscribe. JLPT is the official gauge of progress and is a great motivator.

chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
Planning on at least adding "this is approximately JLPT N4" kind of tags on the levels in the future.
chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
kinbiko · 3 years ago
Your timing could not be better. Just this morning I was thinking how I'm set on the kanji front (with Anki) but I could really use a system for learning more vocab and grammar at an advanced level.

Then this came along. Excited to have a go!

chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
Awesome! Let me know if you have any feedback after playing around with it.
chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
mkenny · 3 years ago
Great work! I just downloaded the app and was testing it out. I like the way the onboarding is down with a gentle suggestion of what to do first without locking the user out of parts of the app. I believe users should be able to explore as much as they want to decide if something is beyond their current comprehension.

One thing, when learning some of the hiragana, the sensitivity seems to be set pretty high on the precision of handwriting to get accepted. I must have tried え 10 times before just swiping down to get out of it because it would not accept the second stroke. I didn't have trouble with the others leading up to it though.

chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
Thanks for that feedback. The drawing system was originally developed for writing kanji, used in my other app Nihongo. Kanji doesn't have the same kind of long strokes that change direction as hiragana, so I could see it not behaving as well for those. I'll see if I can improve it, thanks!
chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
gabelschlager · 3 years ago
There are sites like japanese.io, that allow you to copy/paste any text and get vocabulary lookup, furigana support, allow to add words to a flashcard deck and other things.

I really like their idea and feel such a platform would add a lot of benefit, since you can read whatever you care about. Sadly, the site struggles with longer texts (the UI is not optimized for it) and their flashcard system isn't that great. I have been toying with a similar idea myself. I'd love to read my ebooks with an easy way to look up vocabulary and easily creating flashcard decks containing all unknown words. However, getting the morphological analysis correct while providing fast dictionary lookup has been quite the challenge. This is the first larger project I've attempted so far, so lack of experience definitely is an issue in that regard.

So if anyone has some ideas, feel free to share them. It's not something I pursue commercially, so lack of market doesn't bother me.

chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
You should check out my other app, Nihongo (https://nihongo-app.com), it has functionality like this, and is one of the reasons I developed it in the first place.

I take DRM free ebooks and copy them into the app one chapter at a time. It automatically creates flashcards for all the words that appeared that I don't already know, and I can filter down to only words that appear at least twice.

chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
thaumasiotes · 3 years ago
features I use in Pleco:

- The main panel. You put in characters, and Pleco calls up a list of dictionary entries. As I mentioned above, if you put in several words at once, Pleco will try to call up entries for all of them, but it can't tell where one word ends and another begins, so if you do this you're not unlikely to end up fetching incorrect entries.

- The entry view.

- The stroke order view. Tells you the stroke order for a given character and will play an animation of the same on request.

- The dictionaries. There are a lot of them for different purposes and the quality level is high. This is easily the most important aspect of Pleco.

- Handwriting entry. You get a full screen to draw on like a touchpad. (One character at a time.) Input goes to the lookup field. There is no time limit on drawing the character (as is normal in handwriting IMEs), because this is an app for language learners. This is, obviously, an important way of looking up characters you don't recognize.

- "Reader" mode. When you enter the reader, the contents of your clipboard are laid out. (For this to be useful, you should have some Chinese text in your clipboard.) You can click on Chinese characters to open a popup window with dictionary entries for whatever is highlighted. (This will automatically highlight the character you click on, as well as any following characters that can join with the first one to make a single dictionary entry.) Because Pleco can't recognize word boundaries, there are also controls to directly manipulate what text is currently being highlighted.

- Reader mode also has a refresh button, in case the contents of your clipboard have changed. And a history button to review stuff you were "reading" a minute ago. It is great. I have a common workflow of talking in wechat, copying the message someone has sent to me (can be done with long press), and jumping over to Pleco where the message will be laid out for convenient lookups.

- Pleco also offers "graded reader" addons; books and stories that are written at a simple level and intended to help Chinese learners develop. Those are fairly nice in and of themselves, but when you get them through Pleco there's also an integration with the reader mode.

-----

Tangentially, a feature that I'd like, as a dilettante in Greek, is the ability to look up every form of a word that inflects. Wiktionary often provides full tables of verbs for inflectional languages (see e.g. https://es.wiktionary.org/wiki/ser#Conjugaci%C3%B3n ), and I would find such tables valuable in a dictionary app. (Pleco doesn't have them and doesn't need them, since the level of inflection in Chinese is juuuuuuust above zero. Japanese has more.)

chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
Thanks, this is really useful. I've got some of those in my app, but this gives me a good set of features to aim for as well.
chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
thaumasiotes · 3 years ago
If you're interested in what makes a good dictionary, as opposed to a good app, I want to note something that I really want but that dictionaries generally do not provide:

Words generally accept several different parameters (known in linguistics as "complements"). If I look up the FrameNet entry for "notify (v.)" ( https://framenet2.icsi.berkeley.edu/fnReports/data/lu/lu9183... ), I see that it belongs to the semantic frame of "telling", with 7 "elements" potentially in play. Those are:

1. Addressee

2. Manner

3. Medium

4. Message

5. Speaker

6. Time

7. Topic

Some of those elements can appear with "notify" because they can appear generally on any verb (like Time, as in "I notified him yesterday"), and some are more specific to "notify" itself (like Message, as in "I notified him of your decision").

The FrameNet entries for notify also tell us how each element may be marked in a real English sentence, and provide examples in which each element is color coded. This is what I want to see in more dictionaries. I particularly want it for elements that are specific to the particular word.

For a concrete example from my own life, I spent a long time being aware that 保护 was Chinese for "protect", and yet I was completely unable to figure out how to use it in a sentence. The issue is that "protecting" involves (a) an agent, the subject of 保护; (b) a person being helped, the object of 保护; and (c) a threat. No dictionary that I consulted indicated how to talk about the threat in a sentence in which the verb was 保护, nor did any of them even feature an example sentence in which a threat appeared. Modeling a sentence on the example of English, in which the threat involved in a protecting action is marked by the preposition from, does not work and will confuse Chinese speakers.

It turns out that the way to mark the threat is to include it in a subordinate clause governed by the verb avoid. 我保护她免挨饿, "I [will] protect her to avoid going hungry", not "I will protect her from going hungry". This is important information if you're trying to speak Chinese! But it's absent from the dictionaries. It is intensely frustrating to know exactly what information I'm looking for, to know that a dictionary is the place to find it, and yet to find that it is mysteriously absent from the dictionary.

chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
This is really really interesting. I wonder if the data from FrameNet would be enough to reliably generate this kind of information in a Japanese dictionary, and if the license supports is usage. I'm going to explore this more, thanks.
chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
majewsky · 3 years ago
> My brother and sister study Japanese and they use jisho, which is much worse. When I hassle them about it, they're not aware of anything better.

Not sure if this is exactly what you have in mind, but have a look at https://ichi.moe. It splits a sentence into tokens and then gives you the JMdict entries for each token (i.e. same base dictionary data as Jisho).

chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
You can check out my other app Nihongo for this too (https://nihongo-app.com). :)
chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
alexklarjr · 3 years ago
Am I right, full app cost is 500 dorrars?
chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
Individual courses are $120, unlocking all seven is $300 (USD).
chrisvasselli commented on Show HN: A Japanese learning app focused on efficient vocab/grammar acquisition   lessons.nihongo-app.com... · Posted by u/chrisvasselli
toxik · 3 years ago
This is one of those cases where the hyphenation really matters.

A Japanese learning app would be an app in or by Japanese for learning things.

A Japanese-learning app would be an app for learning Japanese.

chrisvasselli · 3 years ago
Whoops! Japanese-learning app then.

u/chrisvasselli

KarmaCake day200March 25, 2014View Original