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Mirioron commented on Underage workers are training AI   wired.com/story/artificia... · Posted by u/ayabee
mattdeboard · 2 years ago
Your critique of the article is sensible to a point. But your analysis is incomplete. I’m gonna lay out a few predicates hopefully we can all agree on as true, then get to my point.

First, hopefully you can agree that, fundamentally, the company paying these child workers is trading money for labor. (This shouldn’t be controversial, it’s a fact of labor markets.)

Second, the companies paying these children are extracting value from their labor greater than what they are paying the child laborers.

Third, the employers chose laborers located “predominantly … in East Africa, Venezuela, Pakistan, India, and the Philippines” for this work because that’s where they can pay the least in labor costs while still extracting value.

Fourth, keeping labor costs as low as possible while extracting maximum value is the most rational course of action.

Fifth, and finally, it is very rational for children to seek out & undertake this work — to exchange their labor for money — given the economics of their lives.

With these predicates laid out, my point: The reason your analysis doesn’t lead you to thinking this is a raw deal for the children involved is because in a sense, it’s not. Given the economics of their lives, this is, relatively speaking, a good deal.

The rawness of the deal only becomes apparent when we start to inspect why material conditions are such that this deal — trading an hour of labor for $2 to a company serving a multi-billion-dollar market — is enticing to children.

In other words, this article, in my analysis, is an opportunity to study and question the system that creates the conditions such that there is a labor market comprising children who are available for exploitation for cheap labor by very rich Western companies.

Mirioron · 2 years ago
>Third, the employers chose laborers located “predominantly … in East Africa, Venezuela, Pakistan, India, and the Philippines” for this work because that’s where they can pay the least in labor costs while still extracting value.

But that's also where some of the poorest people live! You know, the people who would benefit the most from having jobs like this.

>The reason your analysis doesn’t lead you to thinking this is a raw deal for the children involved is because in a sense, it’s not. Given the economics of their lives, this is, relatively speaking, a good deal.

It is! In the 90s senator Tom Harkin proposed the Child Labor Deterrence Act:

>According to Harkin's website, "This bill would prohibit the importation of products that have been produced by child labor, and included civil and criminal penalties for violators."

This was a bill that never got anywhere, but simply talking about it had this impact:

>In 1993 employers in Bangladesh' ready-made garment (RMG) industry dismissed 50,000 children (c. 75 percent of child workers in the textile industry) out of fear of economic reprisals of the imminent passage of the Child Labor Deterrence Act.

>UNICEF sent a team of investigators into Bangladesh to learn what came of the children who were dismissed from their factory jobs. UNICEF's 1997 State of the World's Children report confirmed that most of the children found themselves in much more deplorable situations, such as crushing stones, scavenging through trash dumps, and begging on the streets. Many of the girls eventually ended up in prostitution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_Labor_Deterrence_Act

Things might be different nowadays, but people from poor countries don't have as many opportunities. Taking some away, might be taking all they have.

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Mirioron commented on Fighting murder convictions that rest on shoddy stats   science.org/content/artic... · Posted by u/YeGoblynQueenne
mindvirus · 3 years ago
They don't give enough detail in the article (Wikipedia has some more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucia_de_Berk), but based on the chart I suspect it's something like this:

Imagine someone goes to a casino, and play a game where you flip a coin 20 times in a row, and win if they're all heads. There's about a 1 in 1 million chance of flipping 20 heads - so people are suspicious that the person cheated.

However, imagine that during that same time period, 10 million people played that game. Looking at that, you'd expect there to be 10 winners of the game. Suddenly it's not suspicious at all.

So I think the argument is that this is the chance a nurse experienced this many deaths is 1 in 45 - so with 45 nurses, you'd expect one to experience it.

Mirioron · 3 years ago
To add: there are over 4 million nurses in the US.
Mirioron commented on PayPal’s updated acceptable use policy [pdf]   paypalobjects.com/marketi... · Posted by u/lettergram
kumarski · 3 years ago
The criminal laughed when I said the same thing to him. His response was "You're just an analyst behind a computer, I moved weight. Paypal was a godsend. Cash was painful."

Go hit the street, talk to ex-cons and white collar criminals, your view is simplistic and lacks depth of on the ground reality.

Mirioron · 3 years ago
But then you're talking to people who got caught. Of course PayPal makes it easier to handle money, but it also leaves a big paper trail.
Mirioron commented on America Has Lost Its Oil Buffer   wsj.com/articles/america-... · Posted by u/lxm
tsimionescu · 3 years ago
Is it just a coincidence then that the rest of the world is experiencing the same (or worse) inflation? And do you think the shortages of things like computer chips, and the increase in price of natural gas because of Europe's new imports have no effect on prices in the US?
Mirioron · 3 years ago
But the rest of the (developed) world largely reacted in the same way to covid. You'd expect the impacts to be largely similar too.
Mirioron commented on Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]   youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMe... · Posted by u/spotlesstofu
foobarian · 3 years ago
There is no more ditch digger of old. They now use $1M excavators that are probably leased from a mega-corp that purchased it from another mega-corp.
Mirioron · 3 years ago
Of course there are ditch diggers. You can't dig everything with a machine.
Mirioron commented on Why American cities are broke (2021) [video]   youtube.com/watch?v=7IsMe... · Posted by u/spotlesstofu
AlexandrB · 3 years ago
The person making $120,000 is heavily benefiting from a public infrastructure that makes $120k/yr jobs possible. A ditch digger needs almost no infrastructure besides a shovel to do his job. An engineer needs schools and universities to educate his colleagues, roads and railways to deliver parts required for the product he's working on, and police services that deter theft of those products once they're built. Not to mention a consumer base with enough money to afford the product in question.
Mirioron · 3 years ago
And the ditch digger requires the engineer to tell him where to dig. Digging a hole for no reason isn't very beneficial.

Even if you take away this public infrastructure you would get private infrastructure in its stead.

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Mirioron commented on One centimeter long bacterium discovered   science.org/doi/10.1126/s... · Posted by u/deathgripsss
mensetmanusman · 3 years ago
Build the software to make this possible:

The trouble is that when writers are discussing scientific research, they could be sued if they use the images in the article without permission.

There needs to be an easy way to revenue share with publishers when these copyrighted images are used. It would definitely be a win-win scenario.

Mirioron · 3 years ago
I see this being downvoted, but images are copyrighted. Using an image for illustrative purposes is not fair use, is it? Therefore the articles can't just share the same images.

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u/Mirioron

KarmaCake day4923April 30, 2018View Original