> I told some friends about it, and they said, yes, and we have "Pennsyltucky" too. But when I looked that up, it wasn't nearly so demeaning as "Counciltucky". It basically just means Pennsylvania minus the Pittsburgh and Philadelphia metropolitan areas
The size of the area has nothing to do with how demeaning the term is. The term is centered on calling the region, to oversimplify, an underdeveloped poor rural backwater.
Just because Pennsylvania has a larger chunk of land that some would describe that way than Council Bluffs does doesn't inherently change that both terms are demeaning.
I haven't been to Council Bluffs, but I have spent time in parts of Pennsylvania outside the Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and State College metros, and while I'm not going to proclaim wisdom without having lived there I certainly saw where the term and stereotype came from.
As someone who grew up an hour outside of Pittsburgh, and has cousins from Kentucky, I can confirm that there’s rather good reason to associate the two areas. Very similar cultures, so to speak.
I live in Lincoln, so about 50 miles south of Omaha. I think a crucial point left out by the author here may be the massive (at least perceived) demographic disparities between Omaha and Council Bluffs.
Council Bluffs is a vastly less financially successful city than Omaha with far more visible opioid problems.
That is to say, as a local, I don’t know if I would associate the term as much with demeaning “hillbillies or hicks” but more for the socioeconomic and drug disparities between the two cities.
I don’t know if the drug disparity is so large between them, but it certainly feels more visible in Council Bluffs. Maybe why we don’t see the -tucky suffix used as much with other twin cities is that St Paul and Fort Worth are still quite successful metropolitan areas in their own right.
Cincinatti has the real Kentucky across the river. I wonder what that's like. (The reverse could be said as well, and I haven't been to Cincinatti but I'd like to go some day, partly because I saw the Kaufman movie Anomalisa which is set there, and I made a point to check out Schenectady from another Kaufman movie and I was glad I did.)
I was lucky enough to be the only person who showed up for my tour slot, so the guide and I had a lot of time to talk about the art deco, the history, etc.
Oddly enough, the Kentucky side of Cincinnati is nicer than the OH side, at least near the river.
It's worth checking out, but I found downtown Cinci weird. It was completely lifeless at night. Haven't been in 15 years or so, so it's entirely possible that's changed now. Other than that, it's a neat area. Make sure to checkout Jungle Jim's, it's a unique enough store worth a visit.
It's crazy how the etymology of "Kentucky" cannot be traced with certainty. Goes to show how much of the native American culture and language is now untraceable and how fragile our record-keeping is, even in "modern times".
The etymology I’ve heard isn’t even listed in the article.
One theory traces “Kentucky” to early forms like Cantucky or Cane-tucky, referring to the region’s vast river-cane brakes, Kentucky River cane, North America’s only native bamboo, which early inhabitants associated with fertile, game-rich land.
But Dallas, as people in my circles talk about Dallas is everything from Denton / Lewisville maybe even Little Elm / Prosper / Celina to Waxahachie. Dallas Fort Worth is not a twin city at all in my opinion.
Oh, the real Twin Cities (Minneapolis-St. Paul) we certainly have a little rivalry and antipathy going on, but generally, very little. The other commenters here hinted at it: there are other towns and cities too. When people often say “the Twin Cities” they really mean the Minneapolis-St. Paul metropolitan area, which is a seven-county, 3 million person region. There aren’t just two identities — there are several dozen identities — but they’re so small and nuanced that the distinction is often dropped or forgotten, or simplified (downtown vs. outside downtown, city vs. suburb, old vs. new developments, etc.)
Never heard of Minne-tucky before, but yeah, outstate or rural Minnesota would be that.
The author (Victor Mair) of the piece makes two errors:
(1) Omaha and Council Bluffs are not twin cities. The former doesn't think about the latter, and the latter sees the former as workplace, shopping mall and zoo.
(2) The residents of Omaha didn't coin the term 'Counciltucky.' That privilege belongs to the residents of Council Bluffs themselves.
Reference: a former resident of Council Bluffs who is a current resident of Omaha.
They make a third error, which is claiming that Pennsyltucky is not primarily used derogatorily. It's absolutely a pejorative for the region, not "just a name".
"Pennsyltucky" doesn't necessarily mean "the rural parts of PA." It can mean "the swath of country roughly from Pennsylvania to Kentucky" or "places like that" or it can be even broader than that. Or it can simply mean "Pennsylvania." It's really not so easy to pigeonhole this stuff. Not accurately anyway.
It's helpful to write these things down. What's not helpful is using them as if they were precise and definitive.
EDIT: If you've badgered me in an attempt to get a different answer, try Google or Wikipedia.
Are you saying those are additional possible meanings of Pennsyltucky, or that you've heard people use it to mean all of those?
I have only ever heard it used to mean the rural areas between the two cities, in keeping with the saying "Pittsburgh on one side, Philly on the other, and Kentucky in between", which has of course confused people not familiar with the stereotypes or geography.
The other famous use of Pennsyltucky is the character in Orange is the New Black, which I've always taken to mean "she acts like she's from Pennsyltucky".
I guess we need to wait for the term to be used enough to get into a dictionary to get it well defined
Where have you ever seen it to refer to the entire state, or as anything other than a derogatory term for the people who don't live in the Philly or Pittsburgh metro areas?
Edit: you aren't being badgered, you made something up and refuse to acknowledge that for whatever reason.
Readit News
The size of the area has nothing to do with how demeaning the term is. The term is centered on calling the region, to oversimplify, an underdeveloped poor rural backwater.
Just because Pennsylvania has a larger chunk of land that some would describe that way than Council Bluffs does doesn't inherently change that both terms are demeaning.
I haven't been to Council Bluffs, but I have spent time in parts of Pennsylvania outside the Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and State College metros, and while I'm not going to proclaim wisdom without having lived there I certainly saw where the term and stereotype came from.
I think one difference is that rural PA and Kentucky have a lot of positive similarities, both being in greater Appalachia. Not as clearly so with CB.
Council Bluffs is a vastly less financially successful city than Omaha with far more visible opioid problems.
That is to say, as a local, I don’t know if I would associate the term as much with demeaning “hillbillies or hicks” but more for the socioeconomic and drug disparities between the two cities.
I don’t know if the drug disparity is so large between them, but it certainly feels more visible in Council Bluffs. Maybe why we don’t see the -tucky suffix used as much with other twin cities is that St Paul and Fort Worth are still quite successful metropolitan areas in their own right.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Union_Terminal
I was lucky enough to be the only person who showed up for my tour slot, so the guide and I had a lot of time to talk about the art deco, the history, etc.
It's worth checking out, but I found downtown Cinci weird. It was completely lifeless at night. Haven't been in 15 years or so, so it's entirely possible that's changed now. Other than that, it's a neat area. Make sure to checkout Jungle Jim's, it's a unique enough store worth a visit.
But Dallas, as people in my circles talk about Dallas is everything from Denton / Lewisville maybe even Little Elm / Prosper / Celina to Waxahachie. Dallas Fort Worth is not a twin city at all in my opinion.
I would love to hear your opinion.
But there was a definite cut-off past which it wasn't "Dallas" to us, anymore. Anything west of Arlington was definitely Fort Worth.
But I wonder if people from Fort Worth considered Arlington to be part of their city, and anything east of Grand Prairie was their cut-off line.
Village Creek is the cultural divide betweenvthe cities on both sides.
Never heard of Minne-tucky before, but yeah, outstate or rural Minnesota would be that.
(1) Omaha and Council Bluffs are not twin cities. The former doesn't think about the latter, and the latter sees the former as workplace, shopping mall and zoo.
(2) The residents of Omaha didn't coin the term 'Counciltucky.' That privilege belongs to the residents of Council Bluffs themselves.
Reference: a former resident of Council Bluffs who is a current resident of Omaha.
(It started as a “tri cities” so the bump to five isn’t the first it’s seen)
Bonus points: an OK native pizza style if you like tavern-ish pizza varieties.
Related to TFA, a “judgmental map” of Omaha and Council Bluffs:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0a/db/ea/0adbea3bcdffbcb4ccfe6ec10...
Warning that these are usually offensive, or at least have the potential to offend (but often super helpful when visiting a new city…)
Council Bluffs just gets a blanket “meth and casinos” label.
It's helpful to write these things down. What's not helpful is using them as if they were precise and definitive.
EDIT: If you've badgered me in an attempt to get a different answer, try Google or Wikipedia.
I have only ever heard it used to mean the rural areas between the two cities, in keeping with the saying "Pittsburgh on one side, Philly on the other, and Kentucky in between", which has of course confused people not familiar with the stereotypes or geography.
The other famous use of Pennsyltucky is the character in Orange is the New Black, which I've always taken to mean "she acts like she's from Pennsyltucky".
I guess we need to wait for the term to be used enough to get into a dictionary to get it well defined
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Edit: you aren't being badgered, you made something up and refuse to acknowledge that for whatever reason.
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Just the other day someone was complaining about being “badgered” for not being willing to read the OP before commenting on it.