IKEA's Zigbee devices have been some of the more stable smart devices I owned. I wasn't running their hub, opting to run with deCONZ in the past and moving to Zigbee2MQTT in recent years.
I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.
I have quite different observations. IKEA's Zigbee devices are the least stable devices I own and with smaller feature set.
For example, I have more than a dozen Zigbee smart outlet around my home, and the IKEA one is the only one that ever hang and became uncontrollable, yet its also the only one without a physical button to toggle and without power monitoring.
One of IKEA's Zigbee remote controls I have also regularly drops connection and I have to remove its battery to reset it from time to time.
The ones I bought from AliExpress of unknown brands are, unfortunately, much cheaper, have more functionalities, and more reliable.
The FYRTUR blinds were kinda crap, constantly had issues with them losing their minds and having to redo the setup. I also have the later Tredansen cellular shades, and those have been good ... but I just checked and those seem to be discontinued as well.
Perils of being early adopter, but kind of soured on the whole smart home concept unless you are wealthy enough to redo all of your home lighting and window treatments every 10 years. Apart from the effort, it creates yet more e-waste. I have 30+ year old manual window shades and lamps and they all still work.
> constantly had issues with them losing their minds and having to redo the setup
I forked out for SmartWings blinds. You can choose between either Zigbee/Matter or Z-Wave (or neither I think?). The first-party hub is completely optional (that's important to look out for with Zigbee, which can be vendor-locked). They are drastically simpler than the average motorized blinds I've seen around, so I haven't had any of the mechanical failure nightmares. Pretty happy overall; though I haven't had them for 10 years.
I do use them as a kind of alarm clock as I am absolutely horrific with mornings, so manual ones wouldn't really work out for me.
Huh, I have the entire second story of my house outfitted with FYRTUR shades and the only one that sometimes gives me problems is the one that crashed to the floor when the 3M tape holding it up failed. (Don't get me started on Andersen windows having no way to secure inside-mount shades without voiding your warranty.) That one seems to eat through its battery far more quickly that the others. All the rest of the ten or so shades work flawlessly with ZHA in Home Assistant.
Word on reddit is they discontinued the blinds due to reliability problems. I have 3 and 1 failed so makes sense to me. They want to bring them back, but it's a complete redesign, not just normal planned product lifecycle iteration.
Using the blinds with a second gen hub now for about four years. No problems at all. Dreading the day they fail as they’re non-negotiable during the summer.
I installed some IKEA bulbs and switches with the IKEA dirigera hub, and had a terrible time. For example a LED strip lost connection a few times, and wouldn't connect on its own without unplugging/plugging.
I replaced the hub with a Home Assistant Green with ZHA, and I haven't had any issues since.
So in my experience each of the devices seem fine over Zigbee, but the hub doesn't seem verify good.
Yeah, I have a Dirigera hub, motion sensors and lights running pretty stably. I connect them into HomeKit via HomeBridge and it's been solid.
I was also somewhat impressed, and happy, that the Dirigera supported the older (I think discontinued now) Tradfri devices rather than making you replace things.
Most of my current-gen IKEA switches will pop out from their steel cradles with normal button presses, because of the curved back of the switch and the curved cradle it connects to magnetically. They've thrown in die-cut double sided adhesive tissue in what I assume was an afterthought, which doesn't peel from one backer sheet in any of the packages I've opened... Maybe it's humidity or temperature sensitive? After a couple of drops on the ground, some internal plastic cracks and tactile response is lost. I ended up using my own double sided tape but it's not a good user experience. I would bet the new switches don't have a curved back, certainly they've had a number of returns because of this aesthetic choice.
I don't care at all about Thread vs Zigbee (this press release doesn't actually say Thread), beyond the very basics in smart home things you want a computer involved and at that point the way it communicates stops being a big concern. I strongly recommend Home Assistant on a low spec mini pc, beats a Raspberry Pi in ~every metric for this use case.
I've been burned by trusting Matter to mean broad compatability; my Aqara lock doesn't indicate how the door was unlocked over Matter despite showing up in their app, and this is after having to buy their Zigbee bridge because it won't connect to Zigbee devices from other brands. Even with Matter, home automation still needs a geek.
> I've been burned by trusting Matter to mean broad compatability; my Aqara lock doesn't indicate how the door was unlocked over Matter despite showing up in their app, and this is after having to buy their Zigbee bridge because it won't connect to Zigbee devices from other brands.
Matter was made by the same guys that created Zigbee, proprietary vendor extensions are their bread and butter. Anything trickier than a contact sensor or motion detector, you should definitely research compatibility and definitely not update firmware once it works.
I have been spending hours the past couple weeks "ensmartening" my home with IoT switches and power outlets. Home Assistant is gorgeous and is an absolute feat of engineering and a testament to the power of open source, but messing with it you can tell that it's very much "by nerds, for nerds". I don't expect my wife to learn to edit YAML files so she can customize a dashboard. The drag and drop editor mostly works but it's missing a lot of functionality. And if your network topology is anything but flat (i.e. everything connected to one consumer router, which probably does cover 95% of people) then good luck with any of the discovery technology like mDNS or broadcast domains. I have dnsmasq allocate hostnames and static IPs for all my stuff and manually punch in the hostname for 99% of things in HA.
The ecosystem I've had the best luck with is, sadly, Tuya, aka Smart Life, aka giant Chinese conglomerate. Pretty much any small brand (or even some bigger brands) use Tuya to build because they have easy off-the-shelf solutions, and I have some confidence that they're large and entrenched enough that they won't randomly shut off their cloud services. But even if they do, enough reverse-engineering work has been put in that you can run most of your devices locally without a cloud connection. The cloud connection is pretty seamless and is the easiest thing I've had to configure in HA. Once you add a device in the Smart Life app you just reload the HA integration and there it is, ready to go. I actually get less latency toggling lights through HA than through the Smart Life app. I don't really worry about them knowing when my front door is shut or my living room lights are off, and I keep all that stuff on its own VLAN with no outgoing access to the rest of my network.
As I start dabbling with Zigbee and Thread and Matter and stuff, it seems like all of these other "open" "ecosystems" are really complicated and require buying a bunch of hardware I don't want and coordinating another network on another protocol, whereas the Wi-Fi stuff just usually works. It makes (some) sense for extremely low power devices that need to run for years on a battery, but lights and outlets don't really need to be Zigbee devices. BLE devices over an ESPHome Bluetooth proxy work surprisingly well too, and BLE is a less crummy technology than Bluetooth proper and seems to be low power enough for a lot of battery operated devices. I wish everything would just support MQTT because that seems like the most "universal" IoT protocol there is.
There are also Tuya zigbee devices and people have hacked local control of Tuya wifi bulbs to varying degrees. My best stuff is IKEA: their battery powered devices use AAA so I can throw in rechargeable cells and there isn't a ton of waste in CR2032s, and they make the only inexpensive Zigbee buttons I've seen that don't include a double-click (Rodret, not the very similar Somrig). The benefit there is commands are nearly instantaneous, rather than waiting for the maximum double click time before deciding it's a single click. The RGB bulbs don't have a lot of brightness to them in color modes, I wonder if that will change with the new products.
I've got a few locally-controlled wifi bulbs that I bought before seriously getting into home automation. They are Tuya white-label, I'm using the tuya-local integration. Since I can't do something like a zigbee `bind` they are fully network dependent, when they go I'll replace them with IKEA bulbs.
I agree Home Assistant still needs a nerd for setup and tinkering but the default dashboard is impressive and all of the functionality is outstanding.
Years ago, I specifically went with zigbee because it's low-power and a simpler protocol stack (and open). No need to even think if the device will run offline or what kind of API it will use. I'm running HA and all the hardware I needed was a USB zigbee dongle and that's it. You pair your sensors, outlets etc. to it using a GUI and by pressing a physical button. No need to coordinate anything yourself, the mesh network can take care of itself.
Does this mean they're abandoning Zigbee compatibility? In my experience, Ikea was making the most reliable Zigbee devices considering the price (as someone who just uses Zigbee and no Ikea hubs, just HA+Zigbee), and would be a shame to lose that, but maybe it's a clear sign I should investigate starting to use Matter more instead?
Matter is now a standard not just a common spec. Everyone should demand all new smart home devices support matter. (it is okay if you use Zigbee or some other alternative to control it today but you should still demand matter for the day you switch - that day should come)
In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hire an electrician (no DIY allowed since it isn't your house anymore) to rip that out so your house is livable. If you are using matter there is a chance they can start using your system in their own way. The more matter takes off the more likely this is. Also the more likely others will use it - perhaps you next house will have matter installed for you and so you can just automate it where you want to instead of rewiring the house first.
Definitely will not be buying Matter stuff. Way too complicated, doesn't address the real problems in smarthome technology.
I usually take my smart devices with me when I move. It's a pretty expensive thing to leave behind for a new owner that probably won't use it anyways. If someone offered me extra to leave them I might and then I'd also leave a manual.
It depends on your setup how easy it would be, but the Zigbee stick I use for controlling Ikea stuff also has firmware available for using it with Matter. There's a good chance whatever IoT solution you use can be hooked up to Matter.
Yes and no. Zigbee is both the transport and the protocol, whereas Matter is a protocol but can run over different transports. Most common in Thread or WiFi, but it could be over ethernet or anything else, really. I would say Matter is not derived from zigbee, but Thread could be considered a derivative.
All previous Zigbee and current Thread devices are physically incapable of connecting to the internet - the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub.
As for software updates, they can be updated, but these devices are so simple they can be reasonably bug free after a while - and security's not a concern (that much) since they don't really have internet access.
Some devices were known to have vulnearbilities where the attacker was physically present to get in radio contact with the device, but those are pretty rare and impossible to exploit en masse.
> the hub they talk to might, but since these are standardized (Matter and/or Zigbee define standard protocols for devices like this), you wont have problems picking another hub.
For Matter (regardless of network connectivity - WiFi, Ethernet, or Thread) this is part of the certification, the devices must be controllable locally and without internet connectivity at least for basic or core functions.
For Zigbee there's no such thing. Zigbee is the network protocol and the manufacturers usually implemented whatever communication protocol they wanted on top. This is why my Tado thermostats that communicate with the hub over Zigbee aren't compatible with any other hub and need the cloud connectivity even when integrated with HA [0][1].
I realize Thread devices need a border router, but once they're connected to that router don't they get an IPv6 address with internet access? Or am I just misunderstanding the protocol?
I have accumulated so much smart-stuff fatigue, I can't stand anything branded as "smart". This means, as you point out, 1) any outage in the chain between me and the vendor's app shuts everything down for me, 2) stuff behaves inconsistently all the time. (e.g. Bluetooth speakers with a smartphone/tablet player app -- every other time something goes wrong: the app frozen completely because search autocomplete lost packets; you can't find the damn playlist buried in a sea of features; another your device wakes up and steals the bluetooth speakers.)
Regarding the electric switches, I was fond of bypass switches (where you can turn on/off by flipping any of the switches connected to a lamp) and made a lot of them in my apartments. Turned out not all of them were needed. I didn't need much control at home, e.g. I don't need to control the lighting above the kitchen desk when I'm not in front of it.
Wifi switches allow a lot of freedom in positioning and re-positioning them, but they escalate everything to the unreliable realm of IP/internet devices. I'd probably vote for a controller on a lamp, and switches not actually inerrupting 230V~, but be connected with a thin and flat 12V= bus, and just signalling, and hence be easy to put under wallpapers. (5V= would be hard to send further than 3 metres.)
Modern smart switches are pretty small (most of them are designed to fit into wall sockets behind plugs/light switches).
I personally think relays are a much more reliable than solid state switches and are very unlikely to fail in a dangerous way, and fully interupt the circuit, but they do have a 'click' some people dislike, and have a lifetime of 100k-ish switches, so for an application where you keep switching rapidly (e.g. not light switches), this might be a problem.
Ikea used Thread and Zigbee which are not Wifi, they use a mesh network and don't suffer from saturation the way Wifi does, in fact adding more devices tends to make the network more reliable since devices can route around failing or congested nodes.
I've had good experience with them in practice, but do be mindful that they share the 2.4GHz band with Wifi so in an apt building, you might run into radio channel congestion.
Personally I use smart home stuff for controlling heating devices and a few other key items, I don't think it makes sense to make every light switch smart, but technically people have done so and it tends to work all right.
That is my approach. It requires quite a few components to work:
* Multiple VLANs - segregate devices - I usually have two for IoT devices: "THINGS" and "SEWER"
* Router/firewall segregation
* Home Assistant
* etc
So my doorbell has a camera and I run the likes of Frigate or Zoneminder. It is PoE and also has a chime relay. It will still ring if the network goes down.
I am gradually migrating my home light switches to zwave ones. They will still work, regardless of HA being up.
My car (EV) and utility provider (Octopus) and so on are getting complicated and have multiple apps. I have a single Home Assistant box that manages all of that lot.
All of that is quite complicated. I'm an IT consultant with 30 years experience but a novice can go quite far already and it will get better.
Currently renovating our house, everything will be KNX based. Offline, no servers needed (even within the house) but nice for visualization, standard, 500+ vendors of compatible hardware. Highly recommended.
Elegrp switches can be used offline. They need to be provisioned online first though, unless you flash with esphome (which can't currently be done wirelessly), but then you'll have to write a custom integration config.
Pros: very inexpensive, and they look great.
Cons: WiFi/ble only, they feel cheap, dimmers don't support a "transition" comment, so you cant dim over time easily.
I really like the idea of an open, local standard for this stuff. I have been a little annoyed at the matter standards immaturity still. Two things I’ve noticed is that there’s not good support for very low power devices that use WiFi. What you’d like to do, for example for a battery powered sensor, is to go into deep sleep and disconnect from the WiFi and then wake up periodically and report the sensor reading. Unfortunately as far as I can tell, you can’t really tell a matter hub that you’re going to disconnect from wifi and when you expect to reconnect and not have matter mark the device as missing. There are some things you can do with certain WiFi routers, but they’re not universally supported and they have time limits.
The device type catalog is also somewhat limited, for example there’s no garage door device type.
> there’s not good support for very low power devices that use WiFi
That's why we have Thread. Wifi just isn't a very efficient protocol for using with deep sleep. The radio takes more power to run, the overhead of connecting is higher, and the device needs a full IP stack. Even with power save mode (if supported by client and AP), the radio is on for hundreds of milliseconds to send a message.
Thread has "sleepy end device" profile built-in where the hub will queue messages and expects the device to be in deep sleep most of the time. And since it doesn't have so much overhead, the radio only has to be on for tens of milliseconds.
Thread is fine, but also wifi is fine. Sleepy end device doesn't work very well with wifi, as I understand it, (from trying to implement it using the ESP32 SDK), because Matter generally wants all devices to check in several times an hour at least.
Take a smart scale for example. Mine uses wifi and is in deep sleep almost all of the time. When you step on it, it weighs you, connects to wifi, and sends the measurement. This does fine on battery because it only gets used a few times a day max, and I think it may power up the radios to look for a software update once a day or something. If it had to power up the radios every 5 minutes though it wouldn't last a year on a charge.
Another example would be a water/flood sensor. The overwhelming majority of the time, it has nothing to report. Maybe once a day or so it should report the battery level and that it's still there. You can still get great battery life as long as you don't have to turn on the radio all the time, but Matter doesn't really let you do this, in my understanding, at least as of the current revision.
I've seen somebody on Reddit using LoRa stuff for the home.
The problem with these wifi based sensors is that you eventually run out of IP addresses (yes you could get fancy with subnet setup but still). Another problem is that at some point you might want to swap routers -- I had to swap out a faulty Netgear router, and the re-set was a major PITA. For these reasons I've been moving to Zigbee.
It's good to move to Zigbee/thread/z-wave anyway because they're all better protocols for smarthome stuff. Plus wifi means you might be buying stuff that relies on cloud, which is a non-starter for anyone that doesn't like buying future paperweights.
But your criticisms are strange. You have more than 254 devices connecting (which implies a complex setup) but can't increase the subnet size? Or does your router just have an absurdly small default DHCP range?
I also don't understand the swap your router problem, unless you're also using default SSIDs and not changing it. Configure the SSID and PSK to be the same as before and everything will just work.
10.0.0.0/8 is entirely reserved for private use. I don’t see any home users needing more ip than that and even then you could just switch to v6 and be done with the worry.
Bandwidth and interference will likely be an issue far before ip scarcity.
That's why Matter and Thread are IPv6. You don't need IPv4 at all... and if you run out of IPv6 address space, I'd love to see just how many devices/sensors you have in your home.
Approximately every home wifi router I've ever used has a class C subnet configured by default, out of the box.
That's enough for over 250 networked widgets to be concurrently connected with IPV4. That's a lot of widgets for one home.
If a person is getting into the realm of having a home with more than 250 networked widgets and addressing is becoming problematic in ways that are beyond their understanding and/or ability, then:
I might suggest that this is roughly equivalent to any other household thing that a homeowner doesn't fully understand (or that they don't want to understand), and that it would be completely fair to remind them that it is perfectly normal and acceptable to hire a qualified person or company to -- you know -- look into that for them.
(It's ok to hire a plumber, or a roofer, or a painter, or a cleaner, or any number of other professionals to help with making stuff work. It's also OK to hire someone to work on the network.)
Matter is nice because of its mesh and low power wakeup. but esh networks are hard to get right. Matter is better than BLE mesh but still not perfect. If you like to build yourself better to use MQTT (deal with a little latency when you turn on your light) on esp32 (nice and low power modes) and Wi-Fi repeaters around the house.
I've never really got the smart home thing, and the shit being pulled with the likes of "smart" TVs and cars has really put me off any sort of network connected device I can't control.
How would you use this and ensure privacy and security? Without investing time in becoming an amateur network engineer?
> any sort of network connected device I can't control. How would you use this and ensure privacy and security?
This was exactly the nice thing about Zigbee (and Z-Wave). They're not IP networks, they basically just work with any hub, and have no way of phoning home at all. You can use them with Home Assistant or other open source tools or write your own stack if you wanted. The thing that really blows about the switch to matter, is that it is IP based, and it looks like vendors will have another opportunity to tie specific functionality to their own hubs (and probably find a way to exfiltrate telemetry). There really wasn't anything wrong with Zigbee or Z-wave that couldn't be fixed in incremental protocol revisions (IMHO), but they don't generate money the way WiFi devices collecting telemetry or hardware churn for the sake of hardware churn does.
The solution is home assistant [0] it lets you manage and control all kinds of smart devices with a lot of customizable, hackable things. And it runs locally, so if you buy the right types of devices that don’t phone home to the cloud (or you shitcan their internet access) you can fully manage your own system.
Or if you want something more of an appliance, some other Hubs with Zigbee, Z-Wave, and Thread + Matter support are: Homey Pro, Homey Bridge, Aeotec SmartThings Hub, and Hubitat.
I only have experience with the first three (besides Home Assistant) and they work very well (though the SmartThings hub is somewhat limited when it comes to device support, graphing, etc.).
I should also mention that with Homey Bridge the dashboard is in their cloud, though the Zigbee/Z-Wave devices are fully local. Homey Pro is also local. (I think they have a Homey Pro Mini in the US now.)
Before buying any IOT devices, see if you can download the firmware from the manufacturer's website. If you can't, do not buy that product.
I like Shelly's doodads. They are easy to work with, you can flash their firmware with an alternative if you want (Tasamota is popular). They have a decent onboard scheduler and the only app you need is a web browser pointed at its IP address. They don't need internet access.
As someone who is a bit of a luddite when it comes to smart home features, there are 2 things that really stand out to me that i would like.
1. Open/Close sensors, I would like to put sensors on my shed door and side gates that can tell me if they are open or closed. I will occassionally leave these open, or the kids may leave them open and would prefer they be closed each night. It's impossible for me to tell if they are closed at the moment without stepping outside.
2. Smart plugs. Being able to remotely operate / schedule plugs to shut off or on seems pretty nice. Outdoor lights being one usecase. Kids media area is another.
Open/Close sensors + lights (and optionally luminance sensor) is what I find to be useful. When I open my home door the light turns on automatically if it's dark enough.
I use YoLink products for #1. LoRA radio based with 1/4 mile range and low power consumption. I have one on my shed door. Frequently on sale at Amazon.
Easy — you’re not their target demographics. Almost all of my friends have some sort of “smart” devices, and I’ve helped personally to install them when things were a bit annoying (Spotify not syncing, dhcp not working properly and etc.). Absolutely not a single person cared about the “privacy and security” issue.
It's not that complicated to get, some of them have useful features.
It's just a personal tradeoff between features, downsides, and risks. Most people don't consider the risks at all (implicitly down-weighting that factor), and the value assigned to the features and downsides varies by person. I have some smart lights, because I like the convenience of those lights being on voice control. My TV is "smart" but doesn't get internet because I don't consider the risk of ads acceptable.
running home assistant on a raspberry with a zigbee usb hub is a weekend project and it gives you full control of your devices, you don't need internet access or any cloud subscription to control them.
I don't have much experience with Thread + Matter (except the only device I have, an upgraded Eve Energy being a PITA), but for Zigbee/Z-Wave you do not have to be an amateur network engineer. Pairing is really straightforward and devices will automatically mesh and get routed by most mains-powered Zigbee/Z-Wave devices. It's not like you have to set up DHCP, manage an IP address range or anything like it.
I really wish wall switches and dimmers were included in the first drop. I've long been in the market for affordable Matter over Thread switches with a matte white finish from a reliable vendor.
They need to cover all the categories too (single, multi-pole, dimmer, and maybe fan speed) so I know I won't end up with a hodge podge of brands and looks.
Is anyone aware of or working on an equivalent to zigbee2mqtt but for both Matter-over-WiFi and Matter-over-Thread devices?
It’s so darn convenient to have MQTT in the picture for home automation and my #1 challenge in imagining a future world past my 400+ ZigBee devices is what replaces zigbee2mqtt and has a similar “owner experience”.
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I do wish the new range would include blinds; the previous generation (FYRTUR) is out of production, and it doesn't seem like there's a replacement yet.
For example, I have more than a dozen Zigbee smart outlet around my home, and the IKEA one is the only one that ever hang and became uncontrollable, yet its also the only one without a physical button to toggle and without power monitoring.
One of IKEA's Zigbee remote controls I have also regularly drops connection and I have to remove its battery to reset it from time to time.
The ones I bought from AliExpress of unknown brands are, unfortunately, much cheaper, have more functionalities, and more reliable.
Perils of being early adopter, but kind of soured on the whole smart home concept unless you are wealthy enough to redo all of your home lighting and window treatments every 10 years. Apart from the effort, it creates yet more e-waste. I have 30+ year old manual window shades and lamps and they all still work.
I forked out for SmartWings blinds. You can choose between either Zigbee/Matter or Z-Wave (or neither I think?). The first-party hub is completely optional (that's important to look out for with Zigbee, which can be vendor-locked). They are drastically simpler than the average motorized blinds I've seen around, so I haven't had any of the mechanical failure nightmares. Pretty happy overall; though I haven't had them for 10 years.
I do use them as a kind of alarm clock as I am absolutely horrific with mornings, so manual ones wouldn't really work out for me.
I replaced the hub with a Home Assistant Green with ZHA, and I haven't had any issues since.
So in my experience each of the devices seem fine over Zigbee, but the hub doesn't seem verify good.
I was also somewhat impressed, and happy, that the Dirigera supported the older (I think discontinued now) Tradfri devices rather than making you replace things.
I don't care at all about Thread vs Zigbee (this press release doesn't actually say Thread), beyond the very basics in smart home things you want a computer involved and at that point the way it communicates stops being a big concern. I strongly recommend Home Assistant on a low spec mini pc, beats a Raspberry Pi in ~every metric for this use case.
I've been burned by trusting Matter to mean broad compatability; my Aqara lock doesn't indicate how the door was unlocked over Matter despite showing up in their app, and this is after having to buy their Zigbee bridge because it won't connect to Zigbee devices from other brands. Even with Matter, home automation still needs a geek.
Matter was made by the same guys that created Zigbee, proprietary vendor extensions are their bread and butter. Anything trickier than a contact sensor or motion detector, you should definitely research compatibility and definitely not update firmware once it works.
The ecosystem I've had the best luck with is, sadly, Tuya, aka Smart Life, aka giant Chinese conglomerate. Pretty much any small brand (or even some bigger brands) use Tuya to build because they have easy off-the-shelf solutions, and I have some confidence that they're large and entrenched enough that they won't randomly shut off their cloud services. But even if they do, enough reverse-engineering work has been put in that you can run most of your devices locally without a cloud connection. The cloud connection is pretty seamless and is the easiest thing I've had to configure in HA. Once you add a device in the Smart Life app you just reload the HA integration and there it is, ready to go. I actually get less latency toggling lights through HA than through the Smart Life app. I don't really worry about them knowing when my front door is shut or my living room lights are off, and I keep all that stuff on its own VLAN with no outgoing access to the rest of my network.
As I start dabbling with Zigbee and Thread and Matter and stuff, it seems like all of these other "open" "ecosystems" are really complicated and require buying a bunch of hardware I don't want and coordinating another network on another protocol, whereas the Wi-Fi stuff just usually works. It makes (some) sense for extremely low power devices that need to run for years on a battery, but lights and outlets don't really need to be Zigbee devices. BLE devices over an ESPHome Bluetooth proxy work surprisingly well too, and BLE is a less crummy technology than Bluetooth proper and seems to be low power enough for a lot of battery operated devices. I wish everything would just support MQTT because that seems like the most "universal" IoT protocol there is.
I've got a few locally-controlled wifi bulbs that I bought before seriously getting into home automation. They are Tuya white-label, I'm using the tuya-local integration. Since I can't do something like a zigbee `bind` they are fully network dependent, when they go I'll replace them with IKEA bulbs.
I agree Home Assistant still needs a nerd for setup and tinkering but the default dashboard is impressive and all of the functionality is outstanding.
Dead Comment
In particular note the bane of all smart homes: if you have to move the next owner won't have a clue what you did. In the worst case you have to hire an electrician (no DIY allowed since it isn't your house anymore) to rip that out so your house is livable. If you are using matter there is a chance they can start using your system in their own way. The more matter takes off the more likely this is. Also the more likely others will use it - perhaps you next house will have matter installed for you and so you can just automate it where you want to instead of rewiring the house first.
I usually take my smart devices with me when I move. It's a pretty expensive thing to leave behind for a new owner that probably won't use it anyways. If someone offered me extra to leave them I might and then I'd also leave a manual.
Dead Comment
It depends on your setup how easy it would be, but the Zigbee stick I use for controlling Ikea stuff also has firmware available for using it with Matter. There's a good chance whatever IoT solution you use can be hooked up to Matter.
* I can fully control them without the cloud on a non-internet connected network
* I can either pay for updates, or they have free updates for at least 12 years, ideally 15
If a hurricane or tornado strikes, or some dictator tries to tell me what I can and can't do, my devices need to remain under my command.
As for software updates, they can be updated, but these devices are so simple they can be reasonably bug free after a while - and security's not a concern (that much) since they don't really have internet access.
Some devices were known to have vulnearbilities where the attacker was physically present to get in radio contact with the device, but those are pretty rare and impossible to exploit en masse.
For Matter (regardless of network connectivity - WiFi, Ethernet, or Thread) this is part of the certification, the devices must be controllable locally and without internet connectivity at least for basic or core functions.
For Zigbee there's no such thing. Zigbee is the network protocol and the manufacturers usually implemented whatever communication protocol they wanted on top. This is why my Tado thermostats that communicate with the hub over Zigbee aren't compatible with any other hub and need the cloud connectivity even when integrated with HA [0][1].
[0] https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/tado/
[1] https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2016/02/12/classifying-th...
Regarding the electric switches, I was fond of bypass switches (where you can turn on/off by flipping any of the switches connected to a lamp) and made a lot of them in my apartments. Turned out not all of them were needed. I didn't need much control at home, e.g. I don't need to control the lighting above the kitchen desk when I'm not in front of it.
Wifi switches allow a lot of freedom in positioning and re-positioning them, but they escalate everything to the unreliable realm of IP/internet devices. I'd probably vote for a controller on a lamp, and switches not actually inerrupting 230V~, but be connected with a thin and flat 12V= bus, and just signalling, and hence be easy to put under wallpapers. (5V= would be hard to send further than 3 metres.)
I personally think relays are a much more reliable than solid state switches and are very unlikely to fail in a dangerous way, and fully interupt the circuit, but they do have a 'click' some people dislike, and have a lifetime of 100k-ish switches, so for an application where you keep switching rapidly (e.g. not light switches), this might be a problem.
Ikea used Thread and Zigbee which are not Wifi, they use a mesh network and don't suffer from saturation the way Wifi does, in fact adding more devices tends to make the network more reliable since devices can route around failing or congested nodes.
I've had good experience with them in practice, but do be mindful that they share the 2.4GHz band with Wifi so in an apt building, you might run into radio channel congestion.
Personally I use smart home stuff for controlling heating devices and a few other key items, I don't think it makes sense to make every light switch smart, but technically people have done so and it tends to work all right.
* Multiple VLANs - segregate devices - I usually have two for IoT devices: "THINGS" and "SEWER" * Router/firewall segregation * Home Assistant * etc
So my doorbell has a camera and I run the likes of Frigate or Zoneminder. It is PoE and also has a chime relay. It will still ring if the network goes down.
I am gradually migrating my home light switches to zwave ones. They will still work, regardless of HA being up.
My car (EV) and utility provider (Octopus) and so on are getting complicated and have multiple apps. I have a single Home Assistant box that manages all of that lot.
All of that is quite complicated. I'm an IT consultant with 30 years experience but a novice can go quite far already and it will get better.
Pros: very inexpensive, and they look great. Cons: WiFi/ble only, they feel cheap, dimmers don't support a "transition" comment, so you cant dim over time easily.
The device type catalog is also somewhat limited, for example there’s no garage door device type.
That's why we have Thread. Wifi just isn't a very efficient protocol for using with deep sleep. The radio takes more power to run, the overhead of connecting is higher, and the device needs a full IP stack. Even with power save mode (if supported by client and AP), the radio is on for hundreds of milliseconds to send a message.
Thread has "sleepy end device" profile built-in where the hub will queue messages and expects the device to be in deep sleep most of the time. And since it doesn't have so much overhead, the radio only has to be on for tens of milliseconds.
Take a smart scale for example. Mine uses wifi and is in deep sleep almost all of the time. When you step on it, it weighs you, connects to wifi, and sends the measurement. This does fine on battery because it only gets used a few times a day max, and I think it may power up the radios to look for a software update once a day or something. If it had to power up the radios every 5 minutes though it wouldn't last a year on a charge.
Another example would be a water/flood sensor. The overwhelming majority of the time, it has nothing to report. Maybe once a day or so it should report the battery level and that it's still there. You can still get great battery life as long as you don't have to turn on the radio all the time, but Matter doesn't really let you do this, in my understanding, at least as of the current revision.
That's what Thread is for.
The problem with these wifi based sensors is that you eventually run out of IP addresses (yes you could get fancy with subnet setup but still). Another problem is that at some point you might want to swap routers -- I had to swap out a faulty Netgear router, and the re-set was a major PITA. For these reasons I've been moving to Zigbee.
But your criticisms are strange. You have more than 254 devices connecting (which implies a complex setup) but can't increase the subnet size? Or does your router just have an absurdly small default DHCP range?
I also don't understand the swap your router problem, unless you're also using default SSIDs and not changing it. Configure the SSID and PSK to be the same as before and everything will just work.
Bandwidth and interference will likely be an issue far before ip scarcity.
That's enough for over 250 networked widgets to be concurrently connected with IPV4. That's a lot of widgets for one home.
If a person is getting into the realm of having a home with more than 250 networked widgets and addressing is becoming problematic in ways that are beyond their understanding and/or ability, then:
I might suggest that this is roughly equivalent to any other household thing that a homeowner doesn't fully understand (or that they don't want to understand), and that it would be completely fair to remind them that it is perfectly normal and acceptable to hire a qualified person or company to -- you know -- look into that for them.
(It's ok to hire a plumber, or a roofer, or a painter, or a cleaner, or any number of other professionals to help with making stuff work. It's also OK to hire someone to work on the network.)
How would you use this and ensure privacy and security? Without investing time in becoming an amateur network engineer?
This was exactly the nice thing about Zigbee (and Z-Wave). They're not IP networks, they basically just work with any hub, and have no way of phoning home at all. You can use them with Home Assistant or other open source tools or write your own stack if you wanted. The thing that really blows about the switch to matter, is that it is IP based, and it looks like vendors will have another opportunity to tie specific functionality to their own hubs (and probably find a way to exfiltrate telemetry). There really wasn't anything wrong with Zigbee or Z-wave that couldn't be fixed in incremental protocol revisions (IMHO), but they don't generate money the way WiFi devices collecting telemetry or hardware churn for the sake of hardware churn does.
[0] https://www.home-assistant.io/
I only have experience with the first three (besides Home Assistant) and they work very well (though the SmartThings hub is somewhat limited when it comes to device support, graphing, etc.).
I should also mention that with Homey Bridge the dashboard is in their cloud, though the Zigbee/Z-Wave devices are fully local. Homey Pro is also local. (I think they have a Homey Pro Mini in the US now.)
I like Shelly's doodads. They are easy to work with, you can flash their firmware with an alternative if you want (Tasamota is popular). They have a decent onboard scheduler and the only app you need is a web browser pointed at its IP address. They don't need internet access.
1. Open/Close sensors, I would like to put sensors on my shed door and side gates that can tell me if they are open or closed. I will occassionally leave these open, or the kids may leave them open and would prefer they be closed each night. It's impossible for me to tell if they are closed at the moment without stepping outside.
2. Smart plugs. Being able to remotely operate / schedule plugs to shut off or on seems pretty nice. Outdoor lights being one usecase. Kids media area is another.
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I started with similar needs and thought it would be frivolous, but now I find it genuinely useful and can’t believe I waited so long.
It seems like something for bored, married people.
It's just a personal tradeoff between features, downsides, and risks. Most people don't consider the risks at all (implicitly down-weighting that factor), and the value assigned to the features and downsides varies by person. I have some smart lights, because I like the convenience of those lights being on voice control. My TV is "smart" but doesn't get internet because I don't consider the risk of ads acceptable.
You'll still end up being an amateur network engineer though.
They need to cover all the categories too (single, multi-pole, dimmer, and maybe fan speed) so I know I won't end up with a hodge podge of brands and looks.
I'll keep holding out.
It’s so darn convenient to have MQTT in the picture for home automation and my #1 challenge in imagining a future world past my 400+ ZigBee devices is what replaces zigbee2mqtt and has a similar “owner experience”.