Head End Power (HEP) is the electrical power supplied from the locomotive to the passenger cars for lighting, heating, air conditioning and other amenities - essentially the "hotel load" that keeps your private car functioning while attached to the train.
Those prices seem in reach for a dream vacation that you save up for. You can rent railcars that are already approved. buying a custom rail car is possible but likely out of budget for normal people.
A decade ago a friend of mine rented a private rail car (for cost---he knows the owner) for a family trip/birthday present, and I got to ride on it for a few hours as it was being positioned (https://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.4). I didn't get a price from him, but it was clear it was pretty much the cost of a new car. The car he was renting came with a lounge, three state rooms, bathroom, dining room, kitchen and two crew members (cook and porter, with their own sleeping quarters).
Their trip was from Miami to Chicago back to Jacksonville (where the car is stored---I rode on it from central Florida to Boca Raton as it was being positioned prior to the start of the family trip; because it was running late, I didn't get a chance to eat lunch on it, sigh) over the course of a week or so. If I could, this is how I would travel, but of course, this being the US, it's not really a viable means of transportation.
> but of course, this being the US, it's not really a viable means of transportation.
Surely if the problem with roads and cars is that private transportation takes up too much room, then widespread private train cars by everyone would be equally problematic pretty much anywhere in the world.
Long distance routes do not take up that much room - most people don't do it often enough. You wouldn't want this for getting to work every day - that wouldn't work. Though a train car can safely follow closer than a auto so it would still be better than private autos.
China has more than 550 cities with high speed rail lines spanning over 40,000km. each with first class, toilets, and meal services.
Or...you can buy an entire rail car, hitch it to the haggard burro that is Amtrak and chug along at pony express speeds across the United States of nothingness until freight rail causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.
Enjoy Batesland Nebraska at 20mph slower than the interstates posted speed limit.
who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?
I agree with your point on delays caused by freight rail and Amtrak speeds in general. But I think the bit about Nebraska is too negative. People love road trips in their cars and train trips for the same reason - it’s fun looking out your window and seeing things. If you open yourself to it, there is so much to appreciate about the parts of countries that are less visited.
This is churlish to the point of complete foolishness. Amtrak has a scenic view car for a reason. There is almost no stretch of the track outside of cities that fails to be a completely beautiful and picturesque portrait of our amazing country.
If you haven't tried it then you might not know. I feel bad that you haven't had this experience personally.
> causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.
It's about 15 minutes and may happen once or twice a day. The longest delay I experienced was because the locomotive had a mechanical issue. That took one hour.
> who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?
What kind of person without the relevant experience would even endeavor to offer this comment?
I took a train from nyc to chicago recently and felt like I was passing through the higher numbered districts of the hunger games. The parent is not wrong.
Amtrak does have right-of-way by federal law for over 50 years now. However, the freight operators don't care and the federal government refuses to enforce it.
People with private train cars probably have a louder voice than most rail passengers so if this gets more popular perhaps that could change.
The freight operators say they obey law. I've talk to their drivers (on my last trip one was taking amtrak) who tell about hours waiting for a late amtrak.
i don't know who is right but I don't trust anyone to tell the full truth.
At those prices, this would have to compete against options like a private chauffeur in a Rolls-Royce though, or a private luxury tour bus. Both of which would come in considerably cheaper.
Seattle metro area: Some of the right-of-ways have been converted into rail trails, so the map probably isn't THAT bad. But yeah the current state of US rail is depressing compared to what could have been (or yet could be!)
Do you really have a privately owned rail car in order to go fast? It sounds to me more like a self-driving campervan, you can sit back and watch the world roll by.
I think the railcar equivalent will eventually become reality (if it isn't already)
Lots of people tool around in giant class-a motorhomes. They are 40 or 45 feet long. They are basically small apartments with double-door fridges, dishwasher, washer/dryer, starlink, etc
if they add the self-driving stuff, it will make them extra popular.
Having ridden every class of ticket in China's rail system, there is a special place in my heart for all of those experiences.
I am sure a private railcar hitched to the Haggard Amtrak Burro is a special experience, too, particularly when your party is the only party for the staff to wait on.
You should not consider Amtrak unless desperate. Even then, generally a bus would be better. Amtrak does not exist. It legally has to exist but it is worse than useless, because it pretends that it might actually be something you'd want to use.
Having take a bus and amtrack I'll take amtrak. My bus was just as late, and there was less opportunity to walk around. Amtrak has sleeper cars which are probably better than the coach seats I was in (the bedrooms areea good price for 4 people but had 5 and so couldn't make the numbers work)
That's what makes this interesting to me. Because I feel like, if you own an operatable train car that can be hooked up to AmTrak, then you not only don't have to ask for the pricing, but do you even have to google to see if you can hook it up?
An operable train car could be something you have as a coop deal. If you are good with tools you can probably trade labor for use of a car. (There are several rr clubs restoring old cars that would then qualify - check the club for terms - might even be a club event so the costs are shared with others)
There is nothing more saddening than the state of America’s train situation. It’s like we’re fundamentally incapable of understanding the value of shared infrastructure.
In the rare case that a state escapes the matrix and actually realizes the benefit, we can’t get the damn thing built.
I want a packed bullet train, not a fucking slow private train car.
American trains are the best in the world - at freight. even overall I'd call us rail best in the world - the state of freight rail is that bad in most of the world.
of course people see passanger trains and don't think of freight. However that is missing the true picture.
Land was granted to the railroads with the agreement that they would run passenger rail services. When passenger rail became so unprofitable that it was bankrupting rail companies, they lobbied to make it the governments responsibility to move people around and leave them to make money shuffling freight.
Strangely enough, Florida, of all places seems to be having really good success with their Brightline rail network. The initial system runs from Miami to Orlando, with a few stops in between. They're planning on expanding up north and east into the panhandle. Financially things are a bit dicey, but it got built, and it's reliable. Ridership is increasing, which takes cars of the road, and property values in the areas it stops are going up. Meanwhile California doesn't even have their tiny "initial operating segment" built, and is projecting to be up to 3-4x their original budget of 33 billion dollars.
This is an important example; Brightline feels qualitatively different from Amtrak and they get points for actually delivering new passenger rail service. They have a newer, cleaner, faster product. I rode once from Orlando to Boca and sat next to some British rail fans who went out of their way to try "the new train" on their way to a cruise out of Ft. Lauderdale.
Unfortunately despite significant capital investment to run double track on the FEC corridor from West Palm to Miami (their initial route before expanding north), they and the FEC have been unable/unwilling to do much about the fundamental flaw of rail in densely populated South Florida: at-grade crossings, many in no-horn zones because nearby residents have lobbied for that. This has been a problem for decades even when the line was freight-only.
All too predictably, a recent investigation [1] found Brightline is the deadliest passenger railroad in the US. Good data visualization and sobering reporting in that article. The railroad wants to socialize the costs of upgrading the crossings but of course privatize the profits. That said, I feel communities that want the density/development benefits of "transit" should be prepared for the costs of achieving that safely.
Brightline missed ("deferred") a bond payment last month:
> Brightline, the private rail line linking Orlando to Miami, refinanced $985M of junior debt at a record-high 14.89% yield, reflecting deep investor concern after delaying a July interest payment on $1.2B in munis. The company, already downgraded deeper into junk by S&P and Fitch, faces falling ridership (53% below projections) and revenue (67% below estimates), plus a potential cash shortfall this quarter without an equity infusion.
The only halfway competent rail in the US is that northeast corridor in New England. Everything else is crap. And even that northeast corridor is only halfway competent. That people are raving about any of the rail in the US only betrays a lack of use of many foreign rail services. Particularly those in Asia.
It’s sad, because I believe we have the ability to outdo everyone, but we can’t get it done.
Well there was that whole genocide of Native Americans thing. And that Civil War thing where half the country was killing the other half. Black people were slaves, women couldn't vote (or own property, or a bank account, etc), being gay was illegal, the Irish were the immigrant whipping boys. Then there was the Jim Crow era, WWI, the Depression, Prohibition, WW2, McCarthyism, the Korean War, Vietnam (when the last Jim Crow laws were repealed).
But, sure, right now is the most depressing time in US history.
The interstate system was originally built so that the army could move quickly from one place to another in the event of a war. I love how things happen in America.
There’s an episode of Archer where Cheryl Tunt, the company secretary, does exactly this on a trip from New York to somewhere in Canada. Their agency was extraditing a Nova Scotian separatist.
I learned a great new word from that episode. Archer is one of the best shows for strange and funny use of language, they just nail my favourite type of humour.
Readit News
- Cost per mile: $4.72
- Minimum charge: $2296
There are also a huge number of other fees that I can't tell if you'd need to pay in practice, e.g.:
- Additional Locomotive Fee (per loco mile): $7.54
- Amtrak Locomotive Daily Charge: $2513
- Head End Power Daily Charge: $3433
- Annual Administrative Fee: $574
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
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Their trip was from Miami to Chicago back to Jacksonville (where the car is stored---I rode on it from central Florida to Boca Raton as it was being positioned prior to the start of the family trip; because it was running late, I didn't get a chance to eat lunch on it, sigh) over the course of a week or so. If I could, this is how I would travel, but of course, this being the US, it's not really a viable means of transportation.
Surely if the problem with roads and cars is that private transportation takes up too much room, then widespread private train cars by everyone would be equally problematic pretty much anywhere in the world.
https://www.floridamemory.com/fpc/memory/onlineclassroom/rai...
Why?
https://www.aaprco.com/charter-a-private-car
I guess it starts at $30,000? Though that might be for an entire train, not just the cars above.
https://www.amtrak.com/charter-your-private-train
Or...you can buy an entire rail car, hitch it to the haggard burro that is Amtrak and chug along at pony express speeds across the United States of nothingness until freight rail causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.
Enjoy Batesland Nebraska at 20mph slower than the interstates posted speed limit.
who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?
This is churlish to the point of complete foolishness. Amtrak has a scenic view car for a reason. There is almost no stretch of the track outside of cities that fails to be a completely beautiful and picturesque portrait of our amazing country.
If you haven't tried it then you might not know. I feel bad that you haven't had this experience personally.
> causes you to have to stop for 3 hours at a time as you do not have right of way.
It's about 15 minutes and may happen once or twice a day. The longest delay I experienced was because the locomotive had a mechanical issue. That took one hour.
> who at Amtrak thought this was worth even mentioning?
What kind of person without the relevant experience would even endeavor to offer this comment?
America has some absolutely incredible scenery, but the idea that it's almost _all_ "beautiful and picturesque" is ridiculous.
People with private train cars probably have a louder voice than most rail passengers so if this gets more popular perhaps that could change.
i don't know who is right but I don't trust anyone to tell the full truth.
A Amtrak train is slower than driving.
Check out this map if you want to be really sad: https://www.google.com/maps/d/embed?mid=10akDabya8L6nWIJi-4Z...
What’s the point of billions if you don’t have an airship?!?
Lots of people tool around in giant class-a motorhomes. They are 40 or 45 feet long. They are basically small apartments with double-door fridges, dishwasher, washer/dryer, starlink, etc
if they add the self-driving stuff, it will make them extra popular.
I think mobileye might have something.
I am sure a private railcar hitched to the Haggard Amtrak Burro is a special experience, too, particularly when your party is the only party for the staff to wait on.
/s
You should not consider Amtrak unless desperate. Even then, generally a bus would be better. Amtrak does not exist. It legally has to exist but it is worse than useless, because it pretends that it might actually be something you'd want to use.
Edit: https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
Slightly less than $5 a mile with a minimum of $2296. The rate to park your car is around $4000 a month. Fun thing to do if you have the money.
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p...
In the rare case that a state escapes the matrix and actually realizes the benefit, we can’t get the damn thing built.
I want a packed bullet train, not a fucking slow private train car.
of course people see passanger trains and don't think of freight. However that is missing the true picture.
ever heard of Japan or Switzerland or China or ...?
Except for the electricity.
That said - bullet trains are great but I fully support the ability of individuals to pay to access freight or passenger rail to subsidize the infra.
It’d be even nicer if you could hook your private car to a bullet train.
Unfortunately despite significant capital investment to run double track on the FEC corridor from West Palm to Miami (their initial route before expanding north), they and the FEC have been unable/unwilling to do much about the fundamental flaw of rail in densely populated South Florida: at-grade crossings, many in no-horn zones because nearby residents have lobbied for that. This has been a problem for decades even when the line was freight-only.
All too predictably, a recent investigation [1] found Brightline is the deadliest passenger railroad in the US. Good data visualization and sobering reporting in that article. The railroad wants to socialize the costs of upgrading the crossings but of course privatize the profits. That said, I feel communities that want the density/development benefits of "transit" should be prepared for the costs of achieving that safely.
[1]: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article308679915.html
Brightline missed ("deferred") a bond payment last month:
> Brightline, the private rail line linking Orlando to Miami, refinanced $985M of junior debt at a record-high 14.89% yield, reflecting deep investor concern after delaying a July interest payment on $1.2B in munis. The company, already downgraded deeper into junk by S&P and Fitch, faces falling ridership (53% below projections) and revenue (67% below estimates), plus a potential cash shortfall this quarter without an equity infusion.
https://florida.municipalbonds.com/news/2025/08/15/brightlin...
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It’s sad, because I believe we have the ability to outdo everyone, but we can’t get it done.
I think most people understand the value of parks, roads, and airports.
I can come up with a dozen things much more depressing than that and only in federal level politics.
This seems to be the most depressing time in US history.
But, sure, right now is the most depressing time in US history.
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Privately-Owned Rail Cars - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33460052 - Nov 2022 (244 comments)
Ride in your privately-owned rail car to see North America - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10324823 - Oct 2015 (2 comments)
The independently wealthy company secretary, whose family owned the railroad, as I recall.
"Uh, trying to perform my ablutions?"
I learned a great new word from that episode. Archer is one of the best shows for strange and funny use of language, they just nail my favourite type of humour.
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