It's surprising to me they don't compare Teslas to other EV cars. Comparing to "average used car" which includes ICE, seems like apples to oranges.
Hank Green [1] is of the opinion that used EVs are underpriced at the moment, because of exaggerated fears concerning minor decreases in range, that don't matter enough in practice. I wonder if the stats presented are a manifestation of that, or a Tesla-specific backlash.
Mentally people still map EV batteries to the batteries used in power tools and phones. None of which last over 5 years in a usable state.
EV batteries have statistical historical data proving they easily last 10-15 years before falling to even 80% of maximum - and these are the 10-15 year old batteries, current ones are even better.
There are also the newer “fast charge” batteries coming like the CATL Shenxing (Gen 2) and CATL Shenxing PLUS that will make current batteries look worse in when they hit the market shortly
Has anybody actually been finding good deals on used Tesla's? Every time I see one that looks like a decent price, it has extremely high miles or serious issues.
Anytime I see one with low miles and in good condition, it is approaching the price of a new one.
Ah the good old junk-pricing model, advertise a price which has no relation to what the customer actually will pay, completely removing the customer's ability to compare prices across venues.
I agree with your sentiment. I've occasionally browsed them, and like you said, while many are cheap, you get what you pay for more so than with other models (higher mileage, worse condition). I usually end up finding that other makes and models are a better value.
I think people are missing the forest for the trees when commenting on this one. It's not EVs vs ICE, it's Tesla vs everything else.
Tesla has supply chain issues. They have always had supply chain issues. Some people have to beg Musk on social media for attention to get their cars repaired after months and months of waiting.
No one wants to buy a used EV with existing or potential upcoming maintenance issues that may cause it to be unusable for a significant period of time.
My understanding is that the battery in a Tesla is so fragile that even in the most minor of accidents, the insurance company "totals" the car, at least here in Indiana.
It's amazing they have any resale value at all. A totalled Tesla should have a large negative value because of the hazardous waste aspect of the battery.[1]
Edit/Append: You would think that given the cost of the lithium other metals in a battery, 100% recycling would be an actuality, instead of just a marketing claim.
Now take what you said and replace "tesla" with "electric car" and you have one of the correct arguments against subsidizing electric so heavily or mandating it.
ICE used cars are often in relative good working condition.
EV used cars are basically dead batteries. It makes a lot of sense to see used EVs price plummet. The index being used to make this comparison doesn't seem to disclose the car category, so it's hard to draw any conclusions.
If tesla car specifically drops in value, compared to other electric car brands for similar vintage/model vehicles, then you can draw a conclusion. Otherwise, it'd be merely confirmation bias.
Don’t ICE cars require a lot more maintenance per mile than EVs?
I own a Toyota 4Runner which is known for holding its value long term and is super reliable… but I do have to change fluids regularly, for example. Engine oil, transfer case fluid, etc.
Regenerative braking is supposed to be nicer to the actual brakes, too, even though an EV with the same capacity is generally heavier.
A good ICE vehicle without a CVT can last a long time.
Regenerative braking means people don't need brake maintenance as often, but also have to replace tires more frequently (especially lazy people that don't rotate the tires regularly.)
Personally, I wouldn't buy a North American ICE model from the past 17 years. Go to a site like Edmunds and sort by worst reviews first, and run if you see electrical or drivetrain complaints. You will have to go back decades to find a reasonable quality domestic ICE model. =3
In general yes but Tesla is a pretty low volume closed ecosystem with poor parts availability. So when you have a problem it’s going to be a huge pain in the a.
Never owned a Tesla, but the amount of horror stories involved with Tesla, its often a hard battle to get warranty, especially around the battery when it involves a second hand vehicle. Even first owner vehicles are often a mixed experience.
I assumed you never opened the link you point to, as its literally in the first line very clearly "Your new Tesla" (as in, not a second hand vehicle). Ooooo, fun, look a bit lower in the actual model info. Your vehicle need to return to the first registered area to gain warranty for a resell. Here in Europe we see often cars being sold that come from Spain or other area's, in Germany. By that contract condition, it need to go back to Spain for a battery fix. lol
Tesla Vehicle warranty is at discretion of Tesla bla bla ... Battery max 8 years, or 240.000km, ... Lots of other exceptions to that warranty.
And if you can apply the warranty, your also not getting a new battery, but a refurb based upon the whole description.
Fyi: Lithium batteries drop in capacity faster and faster when they go past the 80% mark. But legally, Tesla can shove anything in there. A 100% battery, a 80% battery, ... you get the point.
With a ICE engine, even on rental cars, you tend to get the same millage out of them, as a new one. Most issues are often more on the clutch or turbo, both relative cheap repairs compared to a battery pack.
People have been warned years ago, that second hand market for EV cars is going to be a issue because of the battery. Now we are seeing the effect on the pricing.
Hmmm. The Cybertruck has only been on sale since 2023, so presumably it shouldn't be impacted by this issue, but it seems like it still is (moreso than other used cars at least.) Being the most distinctive Tesla car there is, I expect a lot of that does come down to damage to the brand...
I don't think we should consider the Cybertruck alongside the other Tesla vehicles in this particular comparison. Brand aside, it's a low quality vehicle that gets outclassed by both EV and ICE trucks at half (or less, depending on configuration) of its MSRP - all of which have a better reliability track record.
Batteries are rarely dead, they just loose capacity. (And quite slowly at that!!) Resale goes down if you decide there's not enough capacity left and want to sell, but the car is still fine. Eventually, yes, someone might opt to battery swap: for a Tesla that's currently ~$10-20k depending. But in another 10 years? It's quite likely battery prices will have continued to decline, & costs will be less.
And if it’s the very first gen of the Leaf, then, as far as I know, they don’t have thermal management for the batteries. So it greatly stresses them both for discharge and charge and that manifests as reduced capacity.
Lithium cells are happy when they are around 20-25 degrees Celsius (about 75F?) but they don’t enjoy when it’s hot or cold. Likewise, they don’t enjoy full charges and discharges which I’d guess more probable in a smaller range car.
All in all, the first gen Leaf might not be a good benchmark for a more modern EV. Many things should be better now.
So after 200,000 miles or 10 years, you're on average expecting 70% of the nominal battery capacity. My car is at 150k miles, 8 years, and 85% capacity. You can expect more than 300,000 miles on the odometer before the battery dips below 66%.
And mind you, even then the car can work just fine if you don't _need_ range.
True, a local club has an Electric 1913 Detroit that ran for 78 years on the same set of Edison cells. These cells were replaced due to leakage rather than capacity loss by the club re-builders a few decades back. Think about the total distance traveled compared to a modern EV. YMMV was never so true.
The battery is the car for most EV, and given most manufacturers adversarial relationship with external repair shops it is effectively e-waste in 8 to 14 years. =3
They are not dead, EV batteries actually last a very long time. Over here in europe there is actually a company that will repair your battery and Tesla cars are great for that.
Apart from the fact that electric vehicle technology is evolving rapidly, making older models significantly inferior to newer ones, the other significant concern is the concentrated risk associated with used batteries.
While various issues can arise in a used Camry, none of these individually can match the cost of battery replacement. While I can manage a few thousand-dollar service bills, I certainly cannot afford a twenty thousand-dollar bill for a used car.
This seems to happen with other types of electronics, too. I think many avoid used laptops and phones partly due to the expectation that the overall condition won't be good.
You're right. Amazon UK has a great selection of used ThinkPads with worn out batteries. Fine if you have no plan to use it away from mains power. If something has a battery, I would rather buy new.
Not sure if you're being intentionally dishonest. It makes no sense for ICE cars to be in good working condition and EVs to have dead batteries. If anything I'd be much more worried about an engine/transmission dying in an ICE car because you need to know how the car was driven and maintained by the previous owner(s).
> If anything I'd be much more worried about an engine/transmission dying in an ICE car because you need to know how the car was driven and maintained by the previous owner(s).
ICE car dies after X miles are driven.
EV car dies after X years have elapsed, regardless of mileage.
> ICE used cars are often in relative good working condition.
Yes! ICE cars have 10,000 moving parts, and also chambers for burning stuff, lots of oil and residual burnt stuff. ICE cars work exactly like the human body, exercise helps live longer. EV cars have nearly no moving parts, they get obese and die sooner.
I wonder what is the reliability of a used Tesla. Is only the battery failing after some time? I heard that any hit to the battery may make it burn in some time later which is a huge issue, but don't all EV have battery in the chassis?
I can't imagine people not buying used car because the owner of the company said something. Especially if the car is top high innovation in EV
I'm a big fan of Tesla since the first time I've seen it during my trip to London. There were two model S standing next to each other. the car and the chassis. It's been said that the chassis (with the battery and motors) is enough for this car to ride turn and brake. That's when I fell in love with it.
I really have trouble cancelling something just because some guy is doing some things. There were gazillion of people working on it and I have feeling that I would cancel them too, but they are innocent really
Tesla according to them is a great used car to buy. Not all models however.
> Based on our experience and that of our colleagues’ labs at 15-20 different locations worldwide, we have concluded that the battery is the last concern on the list during the first 10 years of an EV’s life, with some vehicles covering a large number of miles with the original battery system. The most common failures within 10 years of using an EV are: 1. Electric motors, 2. OBC chargers, 3. DCDC/inverters, and only in fourth place, batteries.
Thank you. Im thinking of buying this car primarily because of its exceptionally low price but the cost of repair scares me. I wonder if the engines are repairable or as it becomes custom nowadays in all the cars - only replaceable.
Spare parts are a problem, especially on older cars which were constantly updated (no locked hardware design). This has been great feature for first buyers, but disaster for everyone else after them.
I think that perspective mostly exists amongst the chronically online. I don’t see it much in the real world.
All EVs depreciate quickly, Tesla isn’t unique in this regard.
The reason is simply that the market is currently higher income earning early adopters. That customer base is willing to pay the premium for the newest model, and upgrades quickly when newer models come out.
This results in a large of supply of 3 year old vehicles, but not much demand.
In time we’ll see used EVs depreciate at rates more similar to ICE vehicles, as mainstream buyers, who view EVs as a car rather than a tech product, enter the market.
> I can't imagine people not buying used car because the owner of the company said something
That's a nice way of trivialising what Musk has been doing. It's not just what he says, but his Nazi salutes (also his destruction of the U.S. government) and his general racism and politics.
Do you remember the Ratner's Jewellery collapse? That was people completely boycotting Ratner's due to the owner/CEO, Gerald Ratner comparing his company's products to the quality of a prawn sandwich.
Readit News
Hank Green [1] is of the opinion that used EVs are underpriced at the moment, because of exaggerated fears concerning minor decreases in range, that don't matter enough in practice. I wonder if the stats presented are a manifestation of that, or a Tesla-specific backlash.
1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gp5KF2IhUtY
EV batteries have statistical historical data proving they easily last 10-15 years before falling to even 80% of maximum - and these are the 10-15 year old batteries, current ones are even better.
Anytime I see one with low miles and in good condition, it is approaching the price of a new one.
Tesla has supply chain issues. They have always had supply chain issues. Some people have to beg Musk on social media for attention to get their cars repaired after months and months of waiting.
No one wants to buy a used EV with existing or potential upcoming maintenance issues that may cause it to be unusable for a significant period of time.
Their graph shows a drop from $33k to $28k since August '24, or about 18%. Did they leave a factor of 4 behind somewhere?
It's amazing they have any resale value at all. A totalled Tesla should have a large negative value because of the hazardous waste aspect of the battery.[1]
Edit/Append: You would think that given the cost of the lithium other metals in a battery, 100% recycling would be an actuality, instead of just a marketing claim.
[1] https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/3/24058476/tesla-hazardous-w...
EV used cars are basically dead batteries. It makes a lot of sense to see used EVs price plummet. The index being used to make this comparison doesn't seem to disclose the car category, so it's hard to draw any conclusions.
If tesla car specifically drops in value, compared to other electric car brands for similar vintage/model vehicles, then you can draw a conclusion. Otherwise, it'd be merely confirmation bias.
I own a Toyota 4Runner which is known for holding its value long term and is super reliable… but I do have to change fluids regularly, for example. Engine oil, transfer case fluid, etc.
Regenerative braking is supposed to be nicer to the actual brakes, too, even though an EV with the same capacity is generally heavier.
Yes, and this to me feels like one of the least understood things about EVs.
There's no engine, clutch, gearbox etc. No timing belt or spark plugs either. So yes, that saves a lot of maintenance.
And depending how you drive you might not use friction brakes at all either. Leaving maintenance to be a 12V battery and tires.
Based on driving an ev for 10 years (Nissan Leaf)
Model 3/Y battery replacement is US$15,000 to US$20,000.
Wipes out all other EV maintenance cost advantages.
Regenerative braking means people don't need brake maintenance as often, but also have to replace tires more frequently (especially lazy people that don't rotate the tires regularly.)
Personally, I wouldn't buy a North American ICE model from the past 17 years. Go to a site like Edmunds and sort by worst reviews first, and run if you see electrical or drivetrain complaints. You will have to go back decades to find a reasonable quality domestic ICE model. =3
https://insideevs.com/news/731559/tesla-least-reliable-used-...
A lot of these used to be leased cars. Why would those batteries be dead?
And if they are under the 70% mark then Tesla warranty should cover that. See https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty
I assumed you never opened the link you point to, as its literally in the first line very clearly "Your new Tesla" (as in, not a second hand vehicle). Ooooo, fun, look a bit lower in the actual model info. Your vehicle need to return to the first registered area to gain warranty for a resell. Here in Europe we see often cars being sold that come from Spain or other area's, in Germany. By that contract condition, it need to go back to Spain for a battery fix. lol
Tesla Vehicle warranty is at discretion of Tesla bla bla ... Battery max 8 years, or 240.000km, ... Lots of other exceptions to that warranty.
And if you can apply the warranty, your also not getting a new battery, but a refurb based upon the whole description.
Fyi: Lithium batteries drop in capacity faster and faster when they go past the 80% mark. But legally, Tesla can shove anything in there. A 100% battery, a 80% battery, ... you get the point.
With a ICE engine, even on rental cars, you tend to get the same millage out of them, as a new one. Most issues are often more on the clutch or turbo, both relative cheap repairs compared to a battery pack.
People have been warned years ago, that second hand market for EV cars is going to be a issue because of the battery. Now we are seeing the effect on the pricing.
What piddling nonsense.
Plenty of outrage in replies. Here's a recent article with some specific figures: After more than 250,000 miles, Ford Mustang Mach-E still has 92% battery life. https://electrek.co/2025/07/22/after-250000-miles-this-ford-...
Batteries are rarely dead, they just loose capacity. (And quite slowly at that!!) Resale goes down if you decide there's not enough capacity left and want to sell, but the car is still fine. Eventually, yes, someone might opt to battery swap: for a Tesla that's currently ~$10-20k depending. But in another 10 years? It's quite likely battery prices will have continued to decline, & costs will be less.
Flipping the bozo bit on this guy.
Virtually all of them have over half their original battery life. That’s low enough to be restrictive in a car, but far from dead.
They're great commuter cars though if the range is enough or you charge at work
Source, I have one :)
Lithium cells are happy when they are around 20-25 degrees Celsius (about 75F?) but they don’t enjoy when it’s hot or cold. Likewise, they don’t enjoy full charges and discharges which I’d guess more probable in a smaller range car.
All in all, the first gen Leaf might not be a good benchmark for a more modern EV. Many things should be better now.
A quick googling shows some sources claiming EVs are in general designed with a planned service life or around 10 years.
That's basically the same planned service life for ICE cars, which some sources claim it tends to be 12 years or 200k miles.
One source suggests battery capacity in EVs drop less than 2% per year on average.
These numbers seem to contradict you, but you show your data so that we can look into it.
No, they aren't. Here are stats for actual Tesla battery degradation: https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-d...
So after 200,000 miles or 10 years, you're on average expecting 70% of the nominal battery capacity. My car is at 150k miles, 8 years, and 85% capacity. You can expect more than 300,000 miles on the odometer before the battery dips below 66%.
And mind you, even then the car can work just fine if you don't _need_ range.
True, a local club has an Electric 1913 Detroit that ran for 78 years on the same set of Edison cells. These cells were replaced due to leakage rather than capacity loss by the club re-builders a few decades back. Think about the total distance traveled compared to a modern EV. YMMV was never so true.
The battery is the car for most EV, and given most manufacturers adversarial relationship with external repair shops it is effectively e-waste in 8 to 14 years. =3
While various issues can arise in a used Camry, none of these individually can match the cost of battery replacement. While I can manage a few thousand-dollar service bills, I certainly cannot afford a twenty thousand-dollar bill for a used car.
Lol, no, they’re not.
The average EV is likely in a better condition than the average ICE, due to the maintenance requirements on both
ICE car dies after X miles are driven.
EV car dies after X years have elapsed, regardless of mileage.
Source please.
Perhaps if battery condition could be measured and reported on well, used EVs could be more appropriately valued.
Yes! ICE cars have 10,000 moving parts, and also chambers for burning stuff, lots of oil and residual burnt stuff. ICE cars work exactly like the human body, exercise helps live longer. EV cars have nearly no moving parts, they get obese and die sooner.
I can't imagine people not buying used car because the owner of the company said something. Especially if the car is top high innovation in EV
Tesla, well reputation is trash. Company success is questionable.
I’d rather by an EV from anyone right now than Tesla.
I really have trouble cancelling something just because some guy is doing some things. There were gazillion of people working on it and I have feeling that I would cancel them too, but they are innocent really
Tesla according to them is a great used car to buy. Not all models however.
> Based on our experience and that of our colleagues’ labs at 15-20 different locations worldwide, we have concluded that the battery is the last concern on the list during the first 10 years of an EV’s life, with some vehicles covering a large number of miles with the original battery system. The most common failures within 10 years of using an EV are: 1. Electric motors, 2. OBC chargers, 3. DCDC/inverters, and only in fourth place, batteries.
All EVs depreciate quickly, Tesla isn’t unique in this regard.
The reason is simply that the market is currently higher income earning early adopters. That customer base is willing to pay the premium for the newest model, and upgrades quickly when newer models come out.
This results in a large of supply of 3 year old vehicles, but not much demand.
In time we’ll see used EVs depreciate at rates more similar to ICE vehicles, as mainstream buyers, who view EVs as a car rather than a tech product, enter the market.
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Dead Comment
That's a nice way of trivialising what Musk has been doing. It's not just what he says, but his Nazi salutes (also his destruction of the U.S. government) and his general racism and politics.
Do you remember the Ratner's Jewellery collapse? That was people completely boycotting Ratner's due to the owner/CEO, Gerald Ratner comparing his company's products to the quality of a prawn sandwich.