motorest (u/motorest)

motorest commented on Amazon targets as many as 30k corporate job cuts, sources say reuters.com/business/worl... · Posted by u/zerosizedweasle

al_borland · 3 months ago

> Apparently a big chunk of Amazon doesn't even use AWS at all, and instead use proto-cloud computer services that are a throwback from the 90s take on cloud computing.

Is there more information on this somewhere. I had leadership telling me and a few others that we needed to replicate something on-par with AWS for internal use (with about 10 devs and less than a year timeline). I thought this sounded crazy, and it would be interesting if Amazon themselves didn’t even have what was being asked of us.

motorest · 3 months ago

> Is there more information on this somewhere.

Yes, everywhere. You just need to look for it. See the following link, which has references to Apollo and MAWS.

https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/amazon-notable-systems/

> I thought this sounded crazy, and it would be interesting if Amazon themselves didn’t even have what was being asked of us.

Amazon has multiple incantations of this. As legend would have it, AWS was an offshoot of Amazon's internal cloud infrastructure designed to monetize it to amortize their investment on bare metal infrastructure. They partitioned their networks for security reasons and for a few years their infrastructure evolved independently. Then AWS was a huge success and took a life of its own. Only relatively recently did Amazon started to push to drop their internal infrastructure to put all their eggs on AWS in general but serverless solutions in particular.

motorest commented on Simplify your code: Functional core, imperative shell testing.googleblog.com/20... · Posted by u/reqo

bccdee · 3 months ago

> However, DDD has a strong object-oriented core

The original 2003 DDD book is very 2003 in that it is mired in object orientation to the point of frequently referencing object databases¹ as a state-of-the-art storage layer.

However, the underlying ideas are not strongly married to object orientation and they fit quite nicely in a functional paradigm. In fact, ideas like the entity/value object distinction are rather functional in and of themselves, and well-suited to FCIS.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_database

motorest · 3 months ago

> The original 2003 DDD book is very 2003 in that it is mired in object orientation to the point of frequently referencing object databases¹ as a state-of-the-art storage layer.

Irrelevant, as a) that's just your own personal and very subjective opinion, b) DDD is extensively documented as the one true way to write "good code", which means that by posting your comment you are unwittingly proving the point.

> However, the underlying ideas are not strongly married to object orientation and they fit quite nicely in a functional paradigm.

"Underlying ideas" means cherry-picking opinions that suit your fancy while ignoring those that don't.

The criticism on anemic domain models, which are elevated to the status of anti-pattern, is more than enough to reject any claim on how functional programming is compatible with DDD.

And that's perfectly fine. Not being DDD is not a flaw or a problem. It just means it's something other than DDD.

But the point that this proves is that there is no one true way of producing "good code". There is no single recipe. Anyone who makes this sort of claim is either both very naive and clueless, or is invested in enforcing personal tastes and opinions as laws of nature.

motorest commented on Understanding the Worst .NET Vulnerability andrewlock.net/understand... · Posted by u/ingve

robertlagrant · 3 months ago

The state of HTML parsing should convince you that if you follow postel's law in one browser then every other browser has to follow it in the same way.

motorest · 3 months ago

> The state of HTML parsing should convince you that if you follow postel's law in one browser then every other browser has to follow it in the same way.

No. Your claim expresses a critical misunderstanding of the principle. It's desirable that a browser should be robust to support broken but still perfectly parceable HTML. Otherwise, it fails to be even useable when dealing with anything but perfectly compliant documents, which mind you means absolutely none whatsoever.

But just because a browser supports broken documents, that doesn't make them less broken. It just means that the severity of the issue is downgraded, and users of said browser have one less reason to migrate.

motorest commented on Understanding the Worst .NET Vulnerability andrewlock.net/understand... · Posted by u/ingve

SAI_Peregrinus · 3 months ago

The problem with Postel's law is that people apply it to interpreting Postel's law. They read it as encouraging you to accept any input, and trying to continue in the face of nonsense. They accept malformed input & attempt to make sense of it, instead of rejecting it because the fields they care about are malformed. Then the users depend on that behavior, and it ossifies. The system becomes brittle & difficult to change.

I like to call it the "hardness principle". It makes your system take longer to break, but when it does it's more damaging than it would have been if you'd rejected malformed input in the first place.

motorest · 3 months ago

> They accept malformed input & attempt to make sense of it, instead of rejecting it because the fields they care about are malformed.

I don't think that's true at all. The whole point of the law is that your interfaces should be robust, and still accept input that might be nonconforming in some way but still be possible to validate.

The principle still states that if you cannot validate input, you should not accept it.

motorest commented on Understanding the Worst .NET Vulnerability andrewlock.net/understand... · Posted by u/ingve

klysm · 3 months ago

I frequently get into this argument with people about how Postel's law is misguided. Being liberal in what you accept comes at _huge_ costs to the entire ecosystem and there are much better ways to design flexibility into protocols.

motorest · 3 months ago

> Being liberal in what you accept comes at _huge_ costs to the entire ecosyste

Why do you believe that?

Being liberal in what you accept doesn't mean you can't do input validation or you're forced to pass through unsupported parameters.

It's pretty obvious you validate the input that is relevant to your own case, you do not throw errors if you stumble upon input parameters you don't support, and then you ignore the irrelevant fields.

The law is "be conservative in what you send, be liberal in what you accept". The first one is pretty obvious.

How do you add cost to the entire ecosystem by only using the fields you need to use?

motorest commented on Amazon targets as many as 30k corporate job cuts, sources say reuters.com/business/worl... · Posted by u/zerosizedweasle

whatever1 · 3 months ago

Yes. This year only they announced they will exceed 100B in AWS investment. This is almost as high as their 2024 revenue (not profit).

Which cloud company can casually find 100B cash in a year?

motorest · 3 months ago

> Which cloud company can casually find 100B cash in a year?

AWS. Because AWS reports close to $11B/quarter, which is over half Amazon's entire revenue, and AWS owns the cloud computing market, on which the whole world runs.

motorest commented on Amazon confirms 14,000 job losses in corporate division bbc.com/news/articles/c1m... · Posted by u/mosura

phoe-krk · 3 months ago

These aren't "job losses", these are "firings". They aren't unfortunate accidents of external origin that happened to them, they are conscious internal decisions to let people go.

motorest · 3 months ago

> These aren't "job losses", these are "firings". They aren't unfortunate accidents of external origin that happened to them, they are conscious internal decisions to let people go.

This. They also make it their point to send the message this particlar firing round is completely arbitrary and based on a vague hope that they somehow can automate their way out of the expected productivity hit, and that they enforce this cut in spite of stronger sales.

motorest commented on Amazon targets as many as 30k corporate job cuts, sources say reuters.com/business/worl... · Posted by u/zerosizedweasle

whatever1 · 3 months ago

How is AWS getting billions of cash and low interest rate loans for capex?

That’s right. The trillion dollar low margin dinosaur pays cash by writing close to zero profit in the books, and signs the bonds.

motorest · 3 months ago

> How is AWS getting billions of cash and low interest rate loans for capex?

AWS is the cash cow. It owns between a third and half of the world's cloud computing market. Do you think it's hard for AWS to get financing?

motorest commented on Simplify your code: Functional core, imperative shell testing.googleblog.com/20... · Posted by u/reqo

foofoo12 · 3 months ago

> Even large companies are still grasping at straws when it comes to good code

Probably many reasons for this, but what I've seen often is that once the code base has been degraded, it's a slippery slope downhill after that.

Adding functionality often requires more hacks. The alternative is to fix the mess, but that's not part of the task at hand.

motorest · 3 months ago

> Probably many reasons for this, but what I've seen often is that once the code base has been degraded, it's a slippery slope downhill after that.

Another factor, and perhaps the key factor, is that contrary to OP's extraordinary claim there is no such thing as objectively good code, or one single and true way of writing good code.

The crispest definition of "good code" is that it's not obviously bad code from a specific point of view. But points of view are also subjective.

Take for example domain-driven design. There are a myriad of books claiming it's an effective way to generate "good code". However, DDD has a strong object-oriented core, to the extent it's nearly a purist OO approach. But here we are, seeing claims that the core must be functional.

If OP's strong opinion on "good code" is so clear and obvious, why are there such critical disagreements at such a fundamental levels? Is everyone in the world wrong, and OP is the poor martyr that is cursed with being the only soul in the whole world who even knows what "good code" is?

Let's face it: the reason there is no such thing as "good code" is that opinionated people making claims such as OP's are actually passing off "good code" claims as proxy's for their own subjective and unverified personal taste. In a room full of developers, if you throw a rock at a random direction you're bound to hit one or two of these messiahs, and neither of them agrees on what good code is.

Hearing people like OP comment on "good code" is like hearing people comment on how their regional cuisine is the true definition of "good food".

motorest commented on Amazon targets as many as 30k corporate job cuts, sources say reuters.com/business/worl... · Posted by u/zerosizedweasle

brazukadev · 3 months ago

They might be bitter but evangelize Amazon products are their most marketable skills.

motorest · 3 months ago

> They might be bitter but evangelize Amazon products are their most marketable skills.

I think you are talking out of ignorance and spite. Most of the services used by Amazon employees are internal services that may or may not be on par with the state of the art. Apparently a big chunk of Amazon doesn't even use AWS at all, and instead use proto-cloud computer services that are a throwback from the 90s take on cloud computing.