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Posted by u/proberts 3 months ago
I'm Peter Roberts, immigration attorney, who does work for YC and startups. AMA
I'll be here for the next 5-6 hours. As usual, there are countless topics given the rapidly changing immigration landscape and I'll be guided by whatever you're concerned with. Please remember that I can't provide legal advice on specific cases because I won't have access to all the facts. Please stick to a factual discussion in your questions and I'll try to do the same in my answers.

Edit: I am taking a break now and will return later this afternoon/evening to respond to any comments and answer any questions. Thank you everyone for a great and engaged AMA so far.

argo_cve · 3 months ago
Hi Peter. I am a Lead Computer Vision Engineer, working remotely at Veryfi (YC 17). I am a citizen of Russia, living in Armenia for last 3 years.

We applied to O1 visa, got approval from the USCIS, then got visa stamps and at the day of my flight visas were revoked. Embassy said to reapply - I did and now it's been 11 months of Administrative processing (as they said in the DoS).

My employer tried writing to the Congressman's office couple times, but every time Embassy answers ~"please wait, no timelines". I also filed a DHS Trip complaint and received this statement: "We have made any corrections to records that our inquiries determined were necessary, including, as appropriate, notations that may assist in avoiding incidents of misidentification".

With everything above, we were not able to get any meaningful timelines or figure what's going on. Is there anything we can do to make movement in my case? It's hard to plan your life living like this, so it is very important for me. Thanks!

proberts · 3 months ago
If you want to try to take control back over this process (and your life), you probably need to file a mandamus action. This is essentially a demand that a government official execute his or her official duties. I don't handle mandamus actions but I'd be happy to refer you to some very good attorneys who do.
argo_cve · 3 months ago
Thank you. Yes, I would appreciate any referrals you can share.
yeputons · 3 months ago
Not a lawyer here.

My advice would be to relax, enjoy Armenia, and assume you are not entering the U.S. in the next couple of years, for any reason. Administrative processing (I assume you actually mean 221(g) refusal) can easily take 1-2 years. The most extreme case I've heard of took 4 years.

In 2016-2020 writing to a congressmen could actually help: https://daniel.haxx.se/blog/2020/11/09/a-us-visa-in-937-days... , but not anymore. Last year I've heard about some success stories with U.S. courts. Still, it took for one O-1 person about two years from the initial visa interview.

I've also never heard of anyone getting any timeline estimations.

A related small thread with Peter's response: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44006801

hippich · 3 months ago
Just I quick note - writing to congressman may actually help and worth trying. My mom's greencard was stuck in 2023 due to some bs with documents in consulate with officer there non responding. After the letter by my senator I got a call from the officer over there and the issue resolved within a day. This is of course different from op's issue, but just wanted to note that it is worth trying in any case.
xpl · 3 months ago
Check out this Russian Telegram channel on AP https://t.me/usadminvisaprocessing/1

There are people who file collective mandamus lawsuits, so you might consider joining one of those groups.

However, from what I've seen, it could be a waste of money, as there isn't convincing evidence that it accelerates AP. These lawsuits usually take many months, and AP often resolves "by itself" before the lawsuit reaches a resolution.

morpheuskafka · 3 months ago
It’s doubtful you’ll get any answers. Lawyers are of little help due to “consular nonreviewability” and your case clearly has hit some sort of national security flag. Since this was pre Trump II, it likely was a real human review not their new approach of automated revocations for poorly designed queries (a student was recently revoked due to fishing license citations).

As I understand, AP generally means Washington and not the consulate is actually the block/decision maker now, but they wouldn’t even officially tell you that. It could be with State or they could be waiting an opinion from someone. Picture some CIA agent who got stuck with a boring desk job and has a stack of thousands of visas to research.

miotintherain · 3 months ago
Hi Peter, thanks for doing this AMA.

I am traveling to the US soon for work from Europe. I have been reading a lot of articles about detentions at US airports and phone checks. My mindset has always been to never give my personal phone for an inspection, but times has changed now and it has been happening a lot more frequently. I am wondering what is the best course of action, prior to travel and if asked to give your phone and password. Also, what happens if you refuse to do so? Is the worst case scenario that they will send you back to where you came from?

proberts · 3 months ago
The short answer is that CBP has the right to ask to see your electronic devices and you have the right to refuse but if you refuse (and you are not a U.S. green card holder or citizen), CBP likely will deny you admission and send you home.
deadbabe · 3 months ago
I had a friend who was asked to unlock her phone, and she did, and then… they did nothing. They watched her do it and moved on to the next question.

Seems like asking someone to do this is just a good test to see the kind of individual they’re dealing with. It’s not practical to thoroughly search phones at scale and plus they know people can just have burner phones anyway. If you’re cagey and combative they know you’re a problem.

BeetleB · 3 months ago
proberts · 3 months ago
Thank you. This is excellent guidance.
mandeepj · 3 months ago
from [1]:

> Refusal to do so might lead to delay, additional questioning, and/or officers seizing your device for further inspection.

Then, there's no point in denying device search?

[1]: https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...

pimeys · 3 months ago
Yeah, this worries me a lot. I have a quite tricky Type 1 diabetes, which I can manage well with an artificial pancreas software that's running in my phone. Now if they tamper my phone, or take it completely away when crossing the border, I am in quite a trouble. Especially after a big change in time zones, the health apps really do their job and help me settle in without medial risks in a few days.

This is such a risk right now, that me and my American partner decided to not travel to US at all until things change. Too bad we cannot see some of the family in there...

david422 · 3 months ago
I'm wondering if anyone uses burner phones. I have an old phone, and a second phone number that I got from Tello for $5 a month, intending to use it for a business number, but then never did. It's currently completely detached from anything personal and I figure if I do need to go over the border I could just use that still for any communication and internet access, but personal details would be at a very bare minimum.
AdrianB1 · 3 months ago
Yes. If I will have to go there on a normal visa, I will not take my phone with me, just the SIM card. For the laptop, I don't care at all, it is a company laptop and as long as the company agrees to open it up for the border control, I will, but I will set a clean password upfront that meets the minimum complexity requirements ("UperLower12345#") with no access to anything else. I have long random passwords on all accounts like email or Amazon account, I never type it in because I never know the password, that may be a problem if they ask me - who will believe that the only 2 passwords I ever know are for the company laptop and for my desktop at home in Europe?

This is not because I have something to hide, but because I have nothing to show. I don't have Facebook, Twitter or Instagram accounts, don't keep pictures on the phone (family pictures are downloaded on the NAS, I don't take other pictures), so there is nothing to show on a personal level, while the company I work for is a big, old US company and the content of the laptop is theirs, not mine, and it is nothing sensitive that even our business competitors would be interested into.

I case I would go there as a tourist, my only luggage would be my motorcycle helmet and a pair of gloves, I would rent a bike, buy a cheap phone with a local number and do road trips around the country. Not even a suitcase, so nothing to show. If they ask me about itinerary, that is a high risk for me because I use to travel across Europe without an itinerary, just a direction, they may not believe me, but old bikers don't go to a destination, they go wherever the road goes.

fucalost · 3 months ago
For what it’s worth, I recently travelled to the US from the Middle East (into Houston) and was also concerned about this.

My solution was to delete apps I didn’t want to be searched (e.g. WhatsApp) after having made a cloud backup, then enabling airplane mode.

CBP’s website [1] states:

> Prior to beginning a basic or advanced search, CBP Officers will ensure all data and network connections are disabled

And no, I wasn’t searched (thankfully!)

[1] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-searc...

twosid3dDice · 3 months ago
Leave gadgets at home. Buy burners here. Access data remotely.

Wipe and dump burners before flight home.

mandeepj · 3 months ago
> My mindset has always been to never give my personal phone for an inspection

Get a burner phone! Upload your entire data to the cloud as well. Either you can store your phone in the check-in luggage or restore your data once you've arrived at your US location.

rane · 3 months ago
So what happens if you just put your phone in the check-in luggage and say you don't have a phone?
belorn · 3 months ago
For any electronic device it is advisable to take a complete backup of the unit, store an encrypted version somewhere online, and then restore the device to factory reset. Do not log in to any account that you wouldn't feel perfectly fine giving up in an inspection.

They can already hijack any phone number, so the only vulnerability you are giving up by crossing the border is the files, call log/sms, and accounts you bring with you.

protocolture · 3 months ago
As early as the last Trump presidency I was seeing people with good opsec doing the following.

1. Backup your device to the cloud (a different cloud than the default if possible)

2. Erase your device

3. Provide your empty / near empty device for inspection.

4. Load the backup after the airport checks.

It might be wise to update this with some basic changes, like creating fake accounts that are auto signed in on your device. Blank twitter account, blank gmail account etc.

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robomartin · 3 months ago
> I have been reading a lot of articles about detentions at US airports and phone checks.

I travel internationally all the time. I work with companies in China, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Europe and Latin America. Meaning, I know lots of people who travel internationally with great frequency. I have never heard from anyone having any such problems. Ever. Not during this administration nor others. Stop listening to idiots pushing false narratives. It's fear mongering. Not real.

Oddly enough, I have been asked more questions when travelling to Canada (Montreal) over the years than almost anywhere else. Nothing serious, thigs like "Why are you travelling to Canada?", "Where are you staying?", "How long?", "Where do you work?", "What's your website and business email?", "Who are you meeting with?", "What is their contact information?", etc. And, BTW, all of this at the standard entry passport check booth, not a side room.

Of course, it feels intrusive when it happens. I look at it as security theater. Just chill and go through the process. Being stupid about this can ruin your trip in any country. Unless you are a diplomat, you are not important enough to bother with. Picking a fight with entry officials in any country will result in bad things happening to you. Don't be that person.

To the point about security theater: Last year we travelled to Mexico on vacation. When we got to the hotel we bought a few supplies. A couple of the items were sealed the type of plastic packaging that you cannot possibly open with your bare hands or teeth. I said "I'll go to the front desk and see if they can let me use a pair of scissors". Without missing a beat, my daughter pulls out a pair of standard size Fiskars scissors from her luggage. Jaw drop moment. She went through security, full scan, and a pair of scissors made it onto the plane. So, yeah, security theater at its best. BTW, the scissors did not make it through security at the airport in Mexico when returning.

BTW, I have also hired Canadian engineers and we've never had problems. You just have to go through the process, hire and attorney and do it right. Which, BTW, is true anywhere in the world.

brailsafe · 3 months ago
I've heard similar accounts, and anecdotally holds up, although my experience travelling for work specifically is limited. Incidentally, as a Canadian, I've been searched many more times, if not 100% of the time, coming back from the states than going in. Security theater in both directions though for sure, just looking for a slip up. Going in to the states, I once had a slightly vague answer about where I was staying because I'd planned to camp on a long road trip. They pulled me into the lineup and then asked me again, I tried explaining but they just wanted an address and hinted as such, so I just google searched a hotel in front of them and gave them that. They've got boxes to check.
creaturemachine · 3 months ago
"What are you complaining about? Just be white like me."
maronato · 3 months ago
lbrito · 3 months ago
Given the very real risks involved, can't your employer waive the travel requirement for the next few years?
bbarnett · 3 months ago
Culture and society are a road, a path.

What if the current path means a permanent shift. What if this administration seems friendly compared to the next?

briandear · 3 months ago
> it has been happening a lot more frequently.

Is that factual? Or has the media simply been covering it more due to their bias?

International Travelers Processed with Electronic Device Search

Fiscal Year Quarter Total Border Searches Conducted FY 24, Q1 10,937 FY24, Q2 11,273 FY24, Q3 12,090 FY24, Q4 12,658 FY25, Q1 12,092 FY25, Q2 12,260

(The U.S. 2024 fiscal year began on September 28, 2023)

To understand the scale, in FY25 Q2, there were 88 million entries.

So the assertion that 1) electronic searches are statistically meaningful and 2) they are increasing by any significance is just media-fed fear.

One ought to consider the UK’s Terrorism Act of 2000 — the police do not even need reasonable suspicion of a crime to stop and search a person, their vehicle, or electronic devices. https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/07/04/without-suspicion/stop...

You can also be arrested in the UK for the crime of insulting someone. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18102815.amp

noodlesUK · 3 months ago
Thanks for doing the AMA!

I'm a US citizen born abroad - I got my citizenship via (I believe) INA 320 when I was a child. I have a US-born father who was not eligible to pass on his citizenship at the time of my birth. I lived in the US for most of my childhood up until ~2015 (initially as an LPR), and at some point, I obtained a US passport.

I don't have a certificate of citizenship, only a US passport. Given the way the US is going, I'm concerned that one day I'm going to apply renew my passport or otherwise have to prove my citizenship, and I'm not going to be able to sufficiently document it. Is this a real risk? Would you advise applying for a CoC in my circumstances? Am I even eligible to apply for one given that I live abroad? What other steps if any should I take to protect my status?

proberts · 3 months ago
You still can apply for a Certificate of Citizenship but there's a cost associated with it and I really don't think it's necessary or even advisable because you are now giving the government a chance to reassess its previous approval. A U.S. passport is always considered sufficient evidence of U.S. citizenship.
noodlesUK · 3 months ago
Thanks. I guess that’s a valid point - why invite unnecessary scrutiny.
dyauspitr · 3 months ago
What do you mean by a US born father not eligible to pass on his citizenship?
noodlesUK · 3 months ago
In order for U.S. citizens to pass on their citizenship to children born abroad, they need to have resided in the U.S. for a certain period prior to the birth of the child.

The amount of time the parent has to have lived in the U.S. varies but usually it’s 5 years with at least 2 years after the age of 14.

If they don’t automatically pass it on and they want to move back to the U.S., they need to apply for green cards for their kids.

Since 2001, anyone under 18 who has a green card and lives with a U.S. citizen parent becomes a citizen automatically by process of law, under INA 320. Unfortunately documenting this is not automatic. A lot of people who came before 2001 don’t even know that they’re citizens. The application for a certificate costs a lot of money, so often parents tend to skip it if they don’t feel it’s necessary.

See below for the residency criteria.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...

INA 320: https://www.uscis.gov/policy-manual/volume-12-part-h-chapter...

smcin · 3 months ago
Obvious question: does your passport expire before 2029 or not?

i.e. will you need to renew it under the current, or next, admin?

reposefulcats · 3 months ago
Hi Peter, I am a naturalized US citizen (via employment sponsored H1B to Green Card route). Prior to obtaining my citizenship I held an F1 visa to complete my PhD, and may have overstayed in the US at the end of my studies (I am not sure, this was 15+ years ago). This was never raised as an issue when I applied for my H1B, Green Card or citizenship, but is it something that could become an issue for me now if I travel as a US citizen and attempt to return to the US? Is there anything I can do proactively to address this if it is likely to be a problem? Thank you.
proberts · 3 months ago
Almost certainly, even if you did overstay, it's not an issue but for peace of mind, you should speak with an attorney because it sounds like you didn't overstay in a way that would have impacted your H-1B, green card, or citizenship applications. (F-1 students are admitted until D/S - duration of status - so they almost never considered overstays.)
gamblor956 · 3 months ago
Let's put it this way: if you have a problem, you have the same problem as the First Lady and Elon Musk, both of whom violated/overstayed their initial U.S. visas but are now citizens.
fnordian_slip · 3 months ago
This line of thinking is based on the assumption that the law applies people close to the current president with the same rigour as it does to the average person.

I would expect that a brief look at the current situation in the US suggests the opposite, does it not?

frontalier · 3 months ago
modulo entry to the white house

Dead Comment

joshdavham · 3 months ago
I'm a Canadian software developer who'd like to join an American startup so naturally I've been applying to a bunch of jobs. More specifically, I'm looking to go with TN visa.

In most job applications, I need to answer the two following questions 1) Are you legally authorized to work in the US? and 2) Will you now or in the future require sponsorship? I'm looking for advice on how I should be answering these questions.

For example, I believe I should technically be answering NO to 1) and YES to 2), but I'm slightly unsure about this.

I've heard recently that some Canadians actually recommend answering YES to 1) as getting a TN visa is very simple and not too much harder than just hiring an American. The idea is that when you answer NO to 1) that recruiters (and especially startups who are often more naive about visas) will lump you in as being hard to hire like immigrants who come to the US on the H1B and then filter out your application.

As for question 2), because the TN is a "Nonimmigrant" visa, does this technically mean I can answer NO here?

Basically in summary, how would you recommend I answer these questions? I don't want my applications to get auto filtered, but I'd also like to be as honest as possible.

xp84 · 3 months ago
Hi, I just spent 2 months interviewing and hiring candidates for 4 open (remote) eng positions at a US startup. Answering "Yes" to 1 when you don't have a green card or US citizenship would be a way to guarantee that I would rescind your offer and make a mental note to never trust you. I don't think you should do that.

We actually hired some Canadian talent -- we just used an EOR in Canada. The EOR cost us about $600 a month per head as their cut, but it was worth it to get the excellent developers we have through that deal.

The reason why some/many firms would filter out anyone saying NO to (1) is that getting a visa sponsored requires significant work of a specialized nature and our company certainly is not equipped to do that because we don't have people who have the time and skills to deal with the insane demands of our government to obtain the necessary document (This is not a new or partisan issue btw, I remember losing a great developer in the Obama years due to the feds giving her the run-around).

YZF · 3 months ago
TN is not a visa and all you need to get this status is a job offer. There's really no work of any specialized nature but some companies do get legal advice to help streamline the process and get better outcomes like reducing the probability that the person would be denied.

(EDIT: it is sometimes referred to a visa and sometimes as a status but at any rate as someone who had TN status with two different US startups there was very little process around it)

Plasmoid · 3 months ago
> Answering "Yes" to 1 when you don't have a green card or US citizenship would be a way to guarantee that I would rescind your offer

This might actually violate EEOC. You would discriminating on the basis on nationality. The question that was asked was "Are you legally authorized to work in the US?" and Canadian have a limited legal right to work in the US under NAFTA.

jsbg · 3 months ago
> Answering "Yes" to 1 when you don't have a green card or US citizenship would be a way to guarantee that I would rescind your offer and make a mental note to never trust you.

I wouldn't trust you either. The question is ambiguous when it comes to NAFTA and applicants are worried about being filtered out despite not needing visa sponsorship. TN is not a visa it's a status based on a free trade agreement.

bcoates · 3 months ago
Wow, you're real proud of not understanding what a TN visa is or how to do the most basic of HR functions.

You’re doing anyone you don't give a job a favor.

jgilias · 3 months ago
If those are remote positions, why do you care about any of this at all? Make it clear that the applicant needs to handle taxation in their home country themselves, and that’s that. I know many software engineers working remotely for companies outside their home country. One would typically set up an LLC or equivalent, and be employed by that.

Any options agreement would be with the private individual to not mess up the cap table.

babuloseo · 3 months ago
you should look at /r/tnvisa sub, dont get fooled and pay for money when you dont have too >.>
proberts · 3 months ago
Legally, the correct answers are No and Yes.
joshdavham · 3 months ago
Thanks Peter for your answer. I’ll be sure to apply this advice going forward.

With that being said, from seeing the replies to my original question, would you mind expanding on your answer a little more? I’m sure many of the other commenters in this thread would appreciate some more clarity here.

jsbg · 3 months ago
Can you expand on that? TN does not require sponsorship even though most companies do agree to pay an immigration firm to help the applicant.
Plasmoid · 3 months ago
That's really interesting. Can you expand on why those are the correct answers?
m00x · 3 months ago
TN visa is not guaranteed anymore. I had to refile twice before getting approved, and I switched to an L1B to do so.
WaxProlix · 3 months ago
Appreciate the AMA. I'm curious about options for transitioning employees from the temporary (and now at-risk) Uniting for Ukraine parole status to something more stable and long term.

Is H1B lottery just going to be a Ukrainian's best bet? A lot of the advice and documentation seems contradictory, as 'parole' seems in some ways to be more a lack of status than a status itself. Leave the country and apply for some other type of more permanent work visa?

proberts · 3 months ago
The task is to find another type of work visa, which would require departure at some point but this could be to countries other than Ukraine. For most Ukrainians, the visa options are going to limited to the regular H-1B, the cap-exempt H-1B, and the O-1.
neom · 3 months ago
There has been a bunch of chatter in Canadian founders whatsapp groups about people getting detained for long periods of time coming into the states either at SFO or pre-clear in Canada. Are you advising Canadians travel with any additional documentation these days?
proberts · 3 months ago
There's no question that it's tougher now to get into the U.S., whether from Canada or another country via pre-clearance or via a land crossing, and there can be significant differences among airports and land crossings. Canadians are unique because they are visa exempt and CBP feels particularly emboldened to reassess their admissibility every time they enter. The keys are to avoid bad pre-clearance offices and land crossings and even more importantly to carry the right paperwork, which varies depending on the specific status being sought. There is also a huge difference between seeking entry as a visitor versus seeking entry as a worker with a visa, with the former much more challenging now.
Hexcles · 3 months ago
Could you give some examples of "bad" pre-clearance offices?
neom · 3 months ago
I was thinking just for folks going down regularly on a B1, do you think it's worth having a copy of your lease or rental agreement in Canada or something similar? It seems most of the stuff I was seeing is about Canadians establishing roots using a B1.
__turbobrew__ · 3 months ago
Im a Canadian and go to the US for work fairly regularly. Something I didn’t realize is that the laws are different in preclearance areas. https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/P-19.32/FullText.ht...

For example, you are allowed to withdraw your application to enter the US and leave the preclearance area. Additionally you are bound by different laws for search and siezure.

At this point I am only going to the US through preclearance areas because you are still on Canadian soil and bound by Canadian laws. That doesn’t necessarily mean that USBP won’t break those laws, but the Canadian courts get to decide if laws were broken instead of the US courts.

One thing I have not found a straight answer on yet is if USBP can compel you to unlock your electronic devices in a preclearance area. My current strategy is if I am asked to do that in preclearance I will withdraw my application to enter because Im not letting anyone access to my phone.

jonny_eh · 3 months ago
Can you be block-listed if you withdraw your application to enter?
morpheuskafka · 3 months ago
That makes sense. The laws about removal creating an entry ban were written before preclearance was a thing. Withdrawal is a think at normal ports to, but since you’re already they, they can force “expedited removal” instead if they want to generate a ban. But preclearance isn’t US territory so removal isn’t applicable.
KerrAvon · 3 months ago
That’s only the Canada -> US leg, though. They can still grab your phone on the US -> Canada return trip, ne pas?
digianarchist · 3 months ago
This is why I only fly back from Europe via Dublin international.
xer0x · 3 months ago
Thank you for mentioning this!

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stainforth · 3 months ago
"Founders" seems like an arbitrary term devised
jerryseff · 3 months ago
Well yeah, it's because canadian "founders" have a ripe reputation of working in the U.S. while on visitor visas...
__turbobrew__ · 3 months ago
If you are a Canadian citizen you don’t need a visa — due to the visa waiver program — for business purposes as long as your stay is less than 90 days.

You cannot be employed in the US under these conditions, but as a founder you are most likely doing things which are permitted:

* negotiating contracts * business meetings * board meetings * conferences * purchasing property in the US

makestuff · 3 months ago
As someone who is a US Citizen, what is something about the immigration process that I probably do not know about, but causes a lot of issues/could be improved.
ahussain · 3 months ago
I have lots of examples:

* By law, the US can only issue 140,000 employment-based green cards per year, and no more than 7% to one country. This means people from India or China can face a 100+ year backlog, even after they have proved they qualify for a green card. There's no cap on marriage-based green cards.

* Processing times for many green cards (i.e. for people who have already qualified, but just need the physical green card), are 12-24 months.

* USCIS still expects many applications to be sent by mail. Some applications (like O-1s, EB-1s) require hundreds of pages of evidence, and it all needs to be printed out on 8.5x11" paper, for USCIS to scan it in on B+W scanners. This means that there is no error checking (e.g. on fee amounts), and if you have made a mistake, you might not know about it for weeks. Also, it means your petition cannot include working hyperlinks, webpages, or videos - the USCIS officer judges the petition by scrolling through a 400+ page PDF.

* The 'standard' post-graduate work visa is the H-1B. It's entirely lottery-based, not merit-based, and typically there are 400,000+ people competing for 85,000 visas. Many qualified people are forced to leave the US each year because they didn't get selected in the lottery.

jltsiren · 3 months ago
Hyperlinks are often banned in various kinds of petitions and applications. Mostly to ensure that the entire application is submitted at once and does not change afterwards. Then you can process the application in multiple passes (maybe first for the formal requirements and then for the actual content), confident that the conclusions from the earlier passes are still valid.
louison11 · 3 months ago
The standard for employment-based permanent residency (green card) is extraordinarily high. As in, would likely place you in the top 1-5% of the most successful people in the country. That, or you have to invest $800k and create 10 jobs.

No other country in the world requires foreigners to be significantly more qualified than its own population. You can move to France with a regular paying job no problem or just a few thousand euros in savings. Impossible in the US. You have to be extraordinary (they literally call their criteria, "extraordinary abilities") or you have to make top 5% money (so if you work in tech, that would be at least $500k-1M/year in many cases).

The only other way is to get married. This means there is a massive discrepancy between the qualifications of self made immigrants, versus those simply lucky enough to fall in love. It's pretty unfair, but that's how it works. But that's also the reason so many immigrants are so successful in the US, the bar is so high, that it creates a massive motivation to succeed to become eligible for the criteria.

abraxas · 3 months ago
> You can move to France with a regular paying job no problem or just a few thousand euros in savings

Unless something has changed dramatically in the last decade this is patently false. Getting an EU work permit was historically very hard with employers having to demonstrate that a position can't be filled by an EU citizen before a non-EU citizen candidate can be considered.

coolspot · 3 months ago
Maybe for instant green card you have to be extraordinary, but for regular employment-based immigration you don’t have to be.

The path is H1-B -> Green Card -> US citizen (I have done it), and to get H1-B your potential employer gotta post that $60-80k/year job and show that there were no qualifying US applicants for it.

abxyz · 3 months ago
Many countries have quite strict limitations on immigration for work. Many countries do not permit any immigration without visa sponsorship. The U.S. permits sponsored immigration with a quite reasonable bar (e.g: H1B, L-1). Many countries have similar lottery systems, quotas and minimum salary requirements. Given the demand for immigration into the U.S., it's not too surprising to see the limits (and restrictions) be more prominent.
rietta · 3 months ago
I am not a lawyer, but my understanding is the extraordinary ability does not have to germane to your employment. I am aware of the the story of Gabby Franco - who appeared on a season of Top Shot years ago. She was on the Venezuela Olympic pistol team for the 2000 Summer Olympics in Australia. This status as an Olympian got her entry into the USA and eventually citizenship. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mar%C3%ADa_Gabriela_Franco
foolinaround · 3 months ago
classic case of supply and demand