I predict they'll argue that because he lived in Mexico from ages 1 to 16 that he effectively relinquished citizenship. Which is BS, of course, but I'm reminded of the Sartre quote "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert."
> The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or its territories for five years before the child’s birth. At least two of these years must be after age 14.
What immediately drops out of them is that kids of diplomats must return physically to the US for 5 years to be able to pass on their citizenship to their progeny.
I implore everyone to listen to Obama's 2004 DNC speech [1], endorsing John Kerry. Specifically, for 12:00 and beyond:
"For alongside our famous individualism, there's another ingredient in the American Saga: A belief that we're all connected as one people [...] If there's an Arab-American family being rounded up, without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens MY civil liberties [too]. It is that fundamental belief. I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper, that makes this country work."
You're talking to a nation that was so traumatized by Obama that it went as far in the opposite direction as it possibly could.
There was a time when such ideals mattered. That ended about a decade ago. Today we do not believe that we are connected as a people, and that my civil liberties must be protected at all costs (so long as they're your costs).
> The law makes it a misdemeanor for undocumented immigrants over age 18 to “knowingly” enter Florida “after entering the United States by eluding or avoiding examination or inspection by immigration officers.”
A good reminder that over 60% of "undocumented immigrants" in the US are here because they overstayed Visas (more likely their Visa extensions were denied). NOT because they entered the country illegally.
However, the enforcement of these laws is following the "guilty until proven innocent" logic. Arrest people who look hispanic and deny them basic legal rights until they prove their citizenship. The fact that citizens are caught up in this should not be a surprise since we are witnessing the fall of due process.
I have seen multiple people bring up the distinction of overstayed Visas, but I don't understand the significance of it. A travel visa is a conditional authorization to a foreigner that allows them to enter and remain within a country. It is just as important during entering as staying.
The Florida only talks about entering so I can understand the distinction there.
Should people without a valid visa not be considered as illegal immigration?
Overstaying is a civil infraction according to current law while illegal entry is a misdemeanor. The distinction is that overstaying a visa is not a crime, so they are not "criminal illegal aliens", despite it being convenient for the administration to claim so.
> Should people without a valid visa not be considered as illegal immigration?
Yes. But the problem is the rhetoric today is that being an "illegal immigrant" is tantamount to being a rapist, gang member, murderer, or drug dealer.
Therefore people feel justified in depriving them of their rights. Which of course is a very bad thing, but some people feel intuitively that criminals deserve no rights whatsoever to due process. People are now conflating providing due process to illegal immigrants with supporting rape and murder.
So that's why it's very important to point out that when someone is as "illegal immigrant" the image you should not have in your mind is a gangbanger.
That 60% figure would have to depend on a unknown denominator so I dont understand how it would be said so authoritatively. 60% of known undocumented immigrants is the best it could be.
Normally I try to not comment on the status of stories being flagged, but this feels particularly egregious. We have a US citizen being detained and held by ICE despite giving evidence of their citizenship. This is fully unacceptable.
All naturalized citizens are in the crosshairs since naturalization can in fact be reverted. It's supposed to be a very difficult process, but with this admin, we already know that their modus operandi will be to throw the book at you and get you whisked away to some detention center and promptly deported, and then good luck fighting it in courts (which they will also stonewall and ultimately ignore anyway).
Worse yet, Trump and his clique have already openly talked about denaturalization and threatened to apply it to political opponents, so it's not idle speculation either.
I Wouldnt be surprise if this story ends up getting flagged for being "too political."
as a minority who was born in this country, I've had plenty of people tell me not to worry because I'm a citizen. These kinds of things are going to happen more and more because there is a bureaucracy being created to enable this. I've had way too many conversations when he first started talking about this stuff. He was
1. "only going after violent criminals"
2. "only going after criminals"
3. "anyone here 'illegally' is. criminal"
Now we have a hot mic about where he talks about sending out "home growns" to Auschwitz 2.0 down in el salvador.
I'll say it bluntly... I'm scared.
I'm personally waiting to get my passport renewed and then I'm bouncing out of here. The writing is on the wall. Its not safe here in America.
It’s absolutely terrifying. What they did to Kilmar Abrego Garcia could happen to anyone, US citizen or not. They have admitted be was rendered to a gulag accidentally but are also saying that now that he’s there, there’s nothing they can do to bring him back, and that no US court has jurisdiction. They just vanished him into a legal black hole and he has very likely been tortured and abused. That legal black hole would work whether you’re a citizen or not. If they have the power to do it to him, they have the power to do it to anyone.
According to the “justice” minister of El Salvador, the only way out of that prison is in a coffin. What has happened here should be a five alarm emergency for every person in America. When the president can make you disappear, you are now living in Chile in 1973.
The problem is a large portion of Americans are either ignorant or chauvinists who don't know what happened in Chile in 1973, or anything about history/politics at all for that matter.
It's not flagged for being too political. It's flagged for being off-topic _on this particular website_. It doesn't mean everyone shouldn't, can't, won't discuss it elsewhere.
Do you dine at the laundromat or wash your dishes at the barbershop?
Readit News
Yeah. IIRC, that just means he can't pass his citizenship down to his foreign born children: https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-lega...:
> The U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or its territories for five years before the child’s birth. At least two of these years must be after age 14.
Doesn’t that violate the 14th amendment? Equal protection and all that?
What immediately drops out of them is that kids of diplomats must return physically to the US for 5 years to be able to pass on their citizenship to their progeny.
"For alongside our famous individualism, there's another ingredient in the American Saga: A belief that we're all connected as one people [...] If there's an Arab-American family being rounded up, without benefit of an attorney or due process, that threatens MY civil liberties [too]. It is that fundamental belief. I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper, that makes this country work."
1 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWynt87PaJ0
There was a time when such ideals mattered. That ended about a decade ago. Today we do not believe that we are connected as a people, and that my civil liberties must be protected at all costs (so long as they're your costs).
What exactly did Obama do to traumatize you? Be not white?
Half of a nation, at best. Many of us still hold Obama in deep regard as one of the best presidents in modern history.
A good reminder that over 60% of "undocumented immigrants" in the US are here because they overstayed Visas (more likely their Visa extensions were denied). NOT because they entered the country illegally.
However, the enforcement of these laws is following the "guilty until proven innocent" logic. Arrest people who look hispanic and deny them basic legal rights until they prove their citizenship. The fact that citizens are caught up in this should not be a surprise since we are witnessing the fall of due process.
The Florida only talks about entering so I can understand the distinction there.
Should people without a valid visa not be considered as illegal immigration?
Deleted Comment
Yes. But the problem is the rhetoric today is that being an "illegal immigrant" is tantamount to being a rapist, gang member, murderer, or drug dealer.
Therefore people feel justified in depriving them of their rights. Which of course is a very bad thing, but some people feel intuitively that criminals deserve no rights whatsoever to due process. People are now conflating providing due process to illegal immigrants with supporting rape and murder.
So that's why it's very important to point out that when someone is as "illegal immigrant" the image you should not have in your mind is a gangbanger.
Dead Comment
But now I'm a little concerned this was all for nothing. If ICE is going to start deporting US citizens, then I really can't really feel safe. Ever.
I am so god damn tired of this.
Worse yet, Trump and his clique have already openly talked about denaturalization and threatened to apply it to political opponents, so it's not idle speculation either.
as a minority who was born in this country, I've had plenty of people tell me not to worry because I'm a citizen. These kinds of things are going to happen more and more because there is a bureaucracy being created to enable this. I've had way too many conversations when he first started talking about this stuff. He was
1. "only going after violent criminals"
2. "only going after criminals"
3. "anyone here 'illegally' is. criminal"
Now we have a hot mic about where he talks about sending out "home growns" to Auschwitz 2.0 down in el salvador.
I'll say it bluntly... I'm scared.
I'm personally waiting to get my passport renewed and then I'm bouncing out of here. The writing is on the wall. Its not safe here in America.
According to the “justice” minister of El Salvador, the only way out of that prison is in a coffin. What has happened here should be a five alarm emergency for every person in America. When the president can make you disappear, you are now living in Chile in 1973.
Now picture how this would work out with this admin...
The guy is also now sipping margaritas in a restaurant with Senator Van Hollen as was clearly seen in the Senators own post just some hours ago.
The only alarm emergency is the hand-wringing hysteria.
Appears your prediction was completely correct. No talking about the US government in a potentially negative way on the orange site, that's political.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came)
Deleted Comment
Do you dine at the laundromat or wash your dishes at the barbershop?
If anything, that the US is going full Gestapo against that specific demographic is very much on topic here.
There is clear pattern of what is flagged and what is not with very clear political bias.