- Toast is toasted on one end, un-toasted at the other.
- Control is just a timer, so the second time you use it twice in succession it will be hot at the start and will need a shorter time, which you have to figure out.
Check out the Sunbeam Radiant Control Toaster (1949-1980), which is still considered the peak of toaster design.[2] It's repairable, too. Now replicating that would be a good project.
- "And that mechanism doesn’t just wear out after nearly three-quarters of a century of use: there’s a single screw underneath the crumb tray to adjust the tension of the wire, and it alone is enough to bring many aging toasters back to life."
Having mended a few toasters in my time I salute this effort. Cheap toasters are very difficult to take apart and mend. The toasting mechanism on this one looks great.
Cheap toasters only last a few years before dying. Usually because someone jams it up then clumsily unjams it while damaging the element.
After going through a few toasters in quick succession I finally bought an expensive Dualit one. It's still going 25 years later. I changed the timer mechanism once which was a joy, and you can easily buy spare parts.
The Dualit cost over 10 times more than the cheap toasters though. I don't regret that purchase though and it has actually saved me money over the years and made much less landfill.
Funnily enough the toaster in this article looks quite like the Dualit. I don't suppose that is a coincidence!
Dualit "Classic" toasters are the only toasters I'm aware of with heating elements that can be replaced. Every cheap toaster I've owned has died from the wire in one of the heating elements burning out. The only two toasters I'd buy these days are a Dualit or a vintage Sunbeam Radiant Control toaster. Dualit wins for the modern slot widths though.
Having recently done a timer replacement on a Dualit, I think that might literally be a Dualit timer module. Looks identical in the packing box photo. It wouldn’t surprise me if the heating elements were the same as well (haven’t checked) though those are probably more commonly available as generic items.
I was given a Dualit Classic Newgen 4 slice toaster as a wedding gift.
It was without a doubt the WORST toaster I have ever used.
I've never been so annoyed by a product before. In fact, it annoyed me so much that I ended up returning it and replacing it with a cheap toaster that is 10% of the price and functions better.
I'll list the fatal flaws with it in descending order of importance:
1) Unlike basically every single other toaster on the market, it does not have a cage or other mechanism that closes on to the bread slices and keeps them an equal distance from the heating element. This results in at least one part of every single slice of bread getting burned to a crisp, and at least one part of every single slice not being toasted at all. After using this toaster for a week, I couldn't believe how any engineer at Dualit could release this. Do they even use their product? It is a catastrophic oversight.
2) The timer is an analogue mechanism, much like an egg timer. I found that there was an extremely thin margin in which the toast is toasted. Anything under that and it's not, anything over that and it's burned beyond recognition. I cannot even count the number of times the smoke alarm in my house went off because my toaster burned my bread to a crisp. Another catastrophic oversight.
3) Because the timer is analogue, when you turn it it makes a clicking noise as an egg timer does. This means it's very easy to mistake the toaster for being on, when in fact it's not. The number of times I went to make toast, only to realise a few minutes later that the toaster was unplugged for some reason and my bread was still bread is unreal. I'd then end up ruining my scrambled eggs by waiting another few mins for toast.
4) The toaster allows you to spin a dial to choose how many heating elements to use. This is a pain in the ass. It's so easy to forget about, until you go to pick up your toast and find out that only 1 and a half slices have been toasted of the 4 you put in there.
The sad thing is, the toaster looked awesome. We also have a Dualit kettle (which is great) and it matched. Unfortunately they prioritised aesthetics over function, and it shows. If you want a toaster that requires you to go through a checklist of switches to check before operating, then requires constant supervision to avoid burning your toast, and will still give you burnt sections of toast anyway despite all of that, I could not recommend a better candidate.
My toaster broke a week ago. I tried repairing it and found out exactly what the post says: almost impossible without breaking it (or seriously bending parts just to take them apart). After realizing that I wouldn't be able to, I decided to buy a used one, but couldn't find any on offer around my area that looked in good enough shape. Ended up paying 25€ for a new one, which will arrive by post any time soon. I find the whole experience extremely unsatisfying and would love more of this (repairable and self-assembly-able electric appliances).
I hope the comments here don't end up quibbling about the practicality or economics of this toaster specifically, because the point here is the process. This project involves reverse engineering, designing from scratch, manufacturing, developing beginner-accessible documentation, and performing real-world user studies. We should be encouraging people to do more of this!
But I am actually interested in the economics! The author mentions sending her designs out to a factory - I would expect this is astonishingly expensive for a single prototype! Wouldn’t that be thousands of dollars? Is anyone familiar how to get good factory-made parts like this at DIY budgets?
Not that that takes away from the article at all. This project has many merits, and although cost may not be one of them, it’s still interesting!
This project seems to take its heating elements, clockwork timer and knob from a classic Dualit 2 Slice toaster - so those parts are all available off-the-shelf.
Other than that, this design needs some laser cut and bent metal, and some wooden feet. If you're able to bend the metal yourself and find some off-the-shelf feet, you could probably get the flat sheets of stainless steel laser cut and shipped for less than $100.
On the other hand, if one wanted a factory to do more demanding production processes, with more worker time or more machine setup - you're right that it would cost a good deal more.
I build things like this in similarly low quantity - you are probably looking at a grand or two toaster kit there, 95% of which is the custom parts - if it was done locally. The time for someone else to do it is what your paying for. It can be done exceptionally cheap in dollars if YOU do it, but you'll still pay with your time, and you'll still need machine access.
Cheap and easy "factory" quality is probably PCBWAY or similar in China - they do more than PCBs these days. Call it "prototype" budget - several hundred dollars of parts instead of thousands.
No, it wouldn't cost thousands. There are plenty of shops that specialize in prototypes and small pilot runs and there's nothing complicated about the design or material of this product.
It looks like off the shelf electronics with custom sheet metal parts.
Are far as low volume prototyping goes, sheet metal is as cost efficient as it gets for large metal parts. If you're sourcing from China, I'd estimate 500 bucks per prototype (with two sets in case one breaks).
My parents literally have a toaster from the 70s that they still use. I have a toaster I bought 20 years ago. Toasters (usually) don't have e-waste. They are incredibly simple machines that are easy to buy without so much as a single diode. That's because they are really simply just a box with heating elements.
If you want to battle e-waste like the article suggests, maybe pick a product that doesn't already have a 50-year service life without the need for repairs.
Modern toasters are generally way less reliable than older toasters. I think it is very difficult to buy a new toaster today that you can be confident will have a 50-year lifespan.
How do you give out a mains powered toaster with assembly instructions just like that?
My experience with diy electronics is that most kit designers are super wary of even giving instruction on mains anything...so as not to be held liable.
The British used to sell appliances without the plug attached - it was just bare wires. Buying the plug separately and knowing how to attach it was just a basic skill you were expected to know.
Not sure what changed, as I understand it they don't really do that anymore.
> The British used to sell appliances without the plug attached - it was just bare wires. Buying the plug separately and knowing how to attach it was just a basic skill you were expected to know.
I'm having flashbacks to moving back to the US from the UK-o-sphere, and re-splicing plugs for appliances that supported both voltages.
My understanding is that selling appliances without plugs was done to make work for the electronic shops. People attaching their own plugs would seem to defeat the purpose.
Flashbacks to my ex's dad drilling the "missing" holes in his Ikea computer desk (pieces in the wrong place) makes me wonder if consumers are ready for DIY electronics. Love the concept and industrial look of it though.
Maybe a toaster made up of modular parts fitting together like Lego? They'd only fit one way so as to avoid assembly errors. Modular construction means that failing parts could be easily replaced.
Nonsense. We just need...about 10-15 USB-C laptop charging blocks rated at 100W each. I'm sure can find a 1:10 USB charge splitter (heck, maybe we just need to get creative with a few 1:4s) on Temu.
I have the same $30 no-name toaster that my now-ex purchased shortly after we were married in 2010. I open it up every few years to deep clean the crumbs, and I've changed the cord twice. Thing is an absolute tank.
I try to be a BIFL type of person and am willing to pay a premium for items that will last. Occasionally I hit up against something like this toaster, though, which runs completely counter to my expectations of what makes an indestructible kitchen appliance.
Replacing: usually not hard. Open the thing, unscrew the things holding the ends of the wire on, remove old cord, put new cord's wires in, screw down, close thing back up.
(Often "open the thing" and "close the thing" are the hardest - modern devices with plastic clipped on plastic and needing delicate shimming to pry stuff open)
Depending on the level of fix you're going for and where the break is, it can be anywhere from very simple and a few minutes, to much more involved.
If the break is actually at the plug end, you can often pop off the plug housing, trim the wire back, and do basically the same as above.
If the break is in the middle of the cord and you're not squeamish about the final fix having electrical tape on bare wire, then cut, strip, twist, tape, and ... don't fuck it up?
With experience, there is nothing hard about changing a cord.
Without experience, it is harder. Removing the strain release requires mechanical sympathy; desoldering/soldering requires soldering skill; etc.
If it was your job, you’d pick it up in a day or few. If it is not your job, the learning curve is spread across the time between jobs and there’s relearning if the jobs are infrequent.
The concept of things like this is excellent, and I don't think that even at massive scale that you could get the average consumer to go along with it, unfortunately. Even if this thing is 30% more expensive than a non-repairable toaster, I bet many consumers would pick the cheaper one, despite it probably not being the long term financially optimal decision. There are valid reasons for it, but even people with means would skip over this, I'd imagine.
I know so many people in my life that can afford the better quality version of something, but instead opt for the cheaper, shittier version. When the shitty one dies, they get a new shitty one. I think it comes down to the short term impact of cost,which is a valid choice if the cost is the main constraint currently, but I repeatedly see this even in cases where the additional cost isn't an issue.
My ranting aside, this is an incredibly cool project and I'd love things like this in my life. Partially for the fact it's repairable and better for the environment, but partially because it's just neat to have a modular version of your household appliances.
> Even if this thing is 30% more expensive than a non-repairable toaster, I bet many consumers would pick the cheaper one, despite it probably not being the long term financially optimal decision.
Toasters are so cheap that I can't imagine repairing them could be cost effective (ie "financially optimal") unless you assign no value to your time. A new, good-enough toaster costs in the ballpark of $30. I love taking things apart and fixing them, but if the repair involves figuring out the part I have to order or soldering anything, it will take far more than $30 of my time.
This kind of project is for people who love to tinker. The economics do not make sense.
Repairability is not necessarily a factor here. A better toaster may need less repair over its lifetime, and thus be more cost effective over its lifetime than a cheaper toaster that will break sooner and probably make worse toast while it works.
If the economics make no sense, it’s only because the economics do not account for the cost to the environment. If the retail cost included reclamation, so that there was no waste at all, this kind of toaster would be the cheapest.
>I know so many people in my life that can afford the better quality version of something, but instead opt for the cheaper, shittier version. When the shitty one dies, they get a new shitty one.
Where I once lived in the midwest this was called the 'Kame-apart mentality'.
But I don't why this toaster can't cost more or less the same, and it comes with that non-purchasable accessory, bragging rights.
The problem as I see it is that 99% of toaster owners don’t know where to find the parts in this toaster and/or how to replace them.
That’s where I’d love to see more experimentation.
There’s a maker space in my old town where you can just take stuff and they’ll nerd out over helping you fix it. I wish there was that, but in a store format.
I want to live in a world where it’s just common parlance to say, “my toaster broke so I have to stop at the FixIt on my way home.
Yes yes, fixing it is too expensive to support this business model. I want to dream, okay?! Maybe a toaster like this makes it much more reasonable for cheaper appliances to be fixed by the summer student from high school who will learn invaluable skills for $15/hr. I would have killed to make min wage taking apart and doing basic repairs on stuff.
I mentor high school students who can CAD and fabricate plastic and metal parts. Surely we could fabricate more young people like that too.
I've toyed around with a similar idea. A pizza shop style manufacturing/fixit hub that would pick up and deliver locally manufactured items like that.
I even think that repairing items at a loss could work out, because you'd get valuable customer data on what items they used enough to break, and what parts broke, giving you an insight to make your own product lines that didn't break in that way.
Readit News
- Toast is toasted on one end, un-toasted at the other.
- Control is just a timer, so the second time you use it twice in succession it will be hot at the start and will need a shorter time, which you have to figure out.
Check out the Sunbeam Radiant Control Toaster (1949-1980), which is still considered the peak of toaster design.[2] It's repairable, too. Now replicating that would be a good project.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKbUNDPXCWk
[2] https://www.theverge.com/22801890/sunbeam-radiant-control-to...
- "And that mechanism doesn’t just wear out after nearly three-quarters of a century of use: there’s a single screw underneath the crumb tray to adjust the tension of the wire, and it alone is enough to bring many aging toasters back to life."
edit: There's other HN threads about it,
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29342936 (232 comments)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38868753 (76 comments)
From the video, the heating elements look to be "flat wire toaster heater elements", maybe from made-in-china.com [0]?
I also see some flat heating elements as Waring replacements on Amazon [1].
[0] https://zgeycom.en.made-in-china.com/product/LOEGudIBnbkz/Ch...
[1] https://amazon.com/Waring-027901-Heating-Element-Toasters/dp...?
[0] https://youtube.com/watch?v=SFptFIiRsCg
[1] https://www.ebay.com/itm/140421765340
This is peak design:
https://www.moose-r-us.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/getoas...
(not my exact my model)
I inhereted it from my grandma and she still go full.
Don't walk away because that toast is burnt FAST.
Cheap toasters only last a few years before dying. Usually because someone jams it up then clumsily unjams it while damaging the element.
After going through a few toasters in quick succession I finally bought an expensive Dualit one. It's still going 25 years later. I changed the timer mechanism once which was a joy, and you can easily buy spare parts.
The Dualit cost over 10 times more than the cheap toasters though. I don't regret that purchase though and it has actually saved me money over the years and made much less landfill.
Funnily enough the toaster in this article looks quite like the Dualit. I don't suppose that is a coincidence!
It seems slightly disingenuous to use the repair parts from a toaster on the market without crediting them.
I'll list the fatal flaws with it in descending order of importance:
1) Unlike basically every single other toaster on the market, it does not have a cage or other mechanism that closes on to the bread slices and keeps them an equal distance from the heating element. This results in at least one part of every single slice of bread getting burned to a crisp, and at least one part of every single slice not being toasted at all. After using this toaster for a week, I couldn't believe how any engineer at Dualit could release this. Do they even use their product? It is a catastrophic oversight.
2) The timer is an analogue mechanism, much like an egg timer. I found that there was an extremely thin margin in which the toast is toasted. Anything under that and it's not, anything over that and it's burned beyond recognition. I cannot even count the number of times the smoke alarm in my house went off because my toaster burned my bread to a crisp. Another catastrophic oversight.
3) Because the timer is analogue, when you turn it it makes a clicking noise as an egg timer does. This means it's very easy to mistake the toaster for being on, when in fact it's not. The number of times I went to make toast, only to realise a few minutes later that the toaster was unplugged for some reason and my bread was still bread is unreal. I'd then end up ruining my scrambled eggs by waiting another few mins for toast.
4) The toaster allows you to spin a dial to choose how many heating elements to use. This is a pain in the ass. It's so easy to forget about, until you go to pick up your toast and find out that only 1 and a half slices have been toasted of the 4 you put in there.
The sad thing is, the toaster looked awesome. We also have a Dualit kettle (which is great) and it matched. Unfortunately they prioritised aesthetics over function, and it shows. If you want a toaster that requires you to go through a checklist of switches to check before operating, then requires constant supervision to avoid burning your toast, and will still give you burnt sections of toast anyway despite all of that, I could not recommend a better candidate.
Not that that takes away from the article at all. This project has many merits, and although cost may not be one of them, it’s still interesting!
This project seems to take its heating elements, clockwork timer and knob from a classic Dualit 2 Slice toaster - so those parts are all available off-the-shelf.
Other than that, this design needs some laser cut and bent metal, and some wooden feet. If you're able to bend the metal yourself and find some off-the-shelf feet, you could probably get the flat sheets of stainless steel laser cut and shipped for less than $100.
On the other hand, if one wanted a factory to do more demanding production processes, with more worker time or more machine setup - you're right that it would cost a good deal more.
Cheap and easy "factory" quality is probably PCBWAY or similar in China - they do more than PCBs these days. Call it "prototype" budget - several hundred dollars of parts instead of thousands.
https://sendcutsend.com/
Are far as low volume prototyping goes, sheet metal is as cost efficient as it gets for large metal parts. If you're sourcing from China, I'd estimate 500 bucks per prototype (with two sets in case one breaks).
sending her designs out
My parents literally have a toaster from the 70s that they still use. I have a toaster I bought 20 years ago. Toasters (usually) don't have e-waste. They are incredibly simple machines that are easy to buy without so much as a single diode. That's because they are really simply just a box with heating elements.
If you want to battle e-waste like the article suggests, maybe pick a product that doesn't already have a 50-year service life without the need for repairs.
I was thinking about an electronic toothbrush, or a kettle?
Dead Comment
My experience with diy electronics is that most kit designers are super wary of even giving instruction on mains anything...so as not to be held liable.
Not sure what changed, as I understand it they don't really do that anymore.
I didn't realize they sold them that way intentionally!
I'm having flashbacks to moving back to the US from the UK-o-sphere, and re-splicing plugs for appliances that supported both voltages.
Deleted Comment
What could possibly go wrong?
I try to be a BIFL type of person and am willing to pay a premium for items that will last. Occasionally I hit up against something like this toaster, though, which runs completely counter to my expectations of what makes an indestructible kitchen appliance.
(Often "open the thing" and "close the thing" are the hardest - modern devices with plastic clipped on plastic and needing delicate shimming to pry stuff open)
Depending on the level of fix you're going for and where the break is, it can be anywhere from very simple and a few minutes, to much more involved.
If the break is actually at the plug end, you can often pop off the plug housing, trim the wire back, and do basically the same as above.
If the break is in the middle of the cord and you're not squeamish about the final fix having electrical tape on bare wire, then cut, strip, twist, tape, and ... don't fuck it up?
Without experience, it is harder. Removing the strain release requires mechanical sympathy; desoldering/soldering requires soldering skill; etc.
If it was your job, you’d pick it up in a day or few. If it is not your job, the learning curve is spread across the time between jobs and there’s relearning if the jobs are infrequent.
I know so many people in my life that can afford the better quality version of something, but instead opt for the cheaper, shittier version. When the shitty one dies, they get a new shitty one. I think it comes down to the short term impact of cost,which is a valid choice if the cost is the main constraint currently, but I repeatedly see this even in cases where the additional cost isn't an issue.
My ranting aside, this is an incredibly cool project and I'd love things like this in my life. Partially for the fact it's repairable and better for the environment, but partially because it's just neat to have a modular version of your household appliances.
Toasters are so cheap that I can't imagine repairing them could be cost effective (ie "financially optimal") unless you assign no value to your time. A new, good-enough toaster costs in the ballpark of $30. I love taking things apart and fixing them, but if the repair involves figuring out the part I have to order or soldering anything, it will take far more than $30 of my time.
This kind of project is for people who love to tinker. The economics do not make sense.
Tangentially related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
Where I once lived in the midwest this was called the 'Kame-apart mentality'.
But I don't why this toaster can't cost more or less the same, and it comes with that non-purchasable accessory, bragging rights.
That’s where I’d love to see more experimentation.
There’s a maker space in my old town where you can just take stuff and they’ll nerd out over helping you fix it. I wish there was that, but in a store format.
I want to live in a world where it’s just common parlance to say, “my toaster broke so I have to stop at the FixIt on my way home.
Yes yes, fixing it is too expensive to support this business model. I want to dream, okay?! Maybe a toaster like this makes it much more reasonable for cheaper appliances to be fixed by the summer student from high school who will learn invaluable skills for $15/hr. I would have killed to make min wage taking apart and doing basic repairs on stuff.
I mentor high school students who can CAD and fabricate plastic and metal parts. Surely we could fabricate more young people like that too.
I even think that repairing items at a loss could work out, because you'd get valuable customer data on what items they used enough to break, and what parts broke, giving you an insight to make your own product lines that didn't break in that way.