What specific expertise does SpaceX have in the air traffic control realm? What was the bidding process like? Do other regions / nations have more advanced ATC than we do, and what can we learn from them? Is there a problem statement beyond "it has some old bits"? What are the specific goals?
SpaceX has no experience with air traffic control. It's just more corruption. We definitely don't want a startup that "moves fast and breaks things" having anything to do with air traffic control.
Why is everyone assuming SpaceX is getting paid for this by the government? The article doesn't even say that SpaceX is getting paid by the govt for it, they just put it in the headline and use weasel words in the story to make people come up with assumptions that may not be true.
The govt can be paying those folks directly or Musk himself can be paying them like he did for some DOGE team members.
But isn't SpaceX money coming mostly from the government anyway? So still your pockets getting emptied, only over two extra hoops which each take their share as well. All this to bring the magic solution called software engineering because we all know how software consultants always save the business.
Because getting more money and power are what Elon is after and embedding his companies in the government is an effective way to do that.
Tesla stock roughly doubled following the election! That's obviously not because Trump is going to be a champion for electric vehicles and green energy, he couldn't be more hostile to them. Investors know that Elon is going to suck insane amounts of money out of the government with his new level of access and most of that will flow through his companies.
article didn't they they got the project and any project would take months/years even with the best and brightest on the project
> get a firsthand look at the current system, learn what air traffic controllers like and dislike about their current tools, and envision how we can make a new, better, modern and safer system
based on this they can come in to scope out a project and send it out for bidding
> What specific expertise does SpaceX have in the air traffic control realm?
None?
> What was the bidding process like?
What bidding process? Remember when it's the "special WH employee" hiring his own company that's all fine and dandy
> Is there a problem statement beyond "it has some old bits"? What are the specific goals?
Every system can be improved, but I think the current issues with ATC in the US are not of a technical nature per se
ATC is much more than controllers watching planes on radar screens
Also remember this is a system that has been continuously evolving since WWII pretty much (and possibly before) and that one of the recent "breaking backwards compatibility" was NDBs being decommissioned in the US (bit by bit)
> Do other regions / nations have more advanced ATC
According to Trump, yes. This is what he said:
> When I land in my plane, privately, I use a system from another country because...I won't tell you what country... because the captain says this system is so bad, it's so obsolete, that we can't have that.
I think the intro explaining that this is not true and Trump was most likely misunderstanding his pilot's comments about onboard electronics is the key bit of that article...
Fits in with the first term in which Trump baffled airline executives by assuring them that he'd help solve the problem with the airports giving them the wrong equipment[1], also based on apparently failing to understand an anecdote from his private pilot
There is actually a very long term project to modernise US ATC (less on safety grounds and more on congestion minimization grounds) it's even one in which theoretically a satellite constellation operator could have some involvement as a data provider. But but it's something of an understatement to suggest that this is unlikely to be advanced by an administration lead by someone who thinks he understands aviation based on misunderstanding his pilot and someone whose first foray into improving the FAA was to arbitrarily fire hundreds of FAA staff and whose main goal for the FAA is to deregulate space launches...
Because software developers have never worked in an unfamiliar domain, which necessitated interviewing the subject matter experts to gain perspective on their problems and needs.
History is absolutely replete with "technologists" underestimating the difficulty of transforming complex government systems. Health, education, why not add aviation safety to the list.
Bidding process? Learn from other nations? Problem statement? Goals?
The problem statement is: I don't own this yet. And the goal is: I run everything now.
It IS blatant corruption. A foreign national is using his private enterprises to take over government agencies and is backed by a traitor who only cares about his own money and power.
If there ever was a more blatant episode of corruption it's what's going on in the US right now.
What specific expertise does SpaceX have in the air traffic control realm?
Building software which respect to probabilistic risk analysis. This includes techniques such as abstract interpretation and theorem for for the logic of dynamical system etc. I guess spacex expertise in these realm is quite advanced and they do something useful.
Such systems are designed and fine-tuned over decades of sometimes hard-learned lessons. This is not meant as a political comment, but people will likely die as a result of this.
I mean the previous systems do need an overhaul, but that should be and is being done slowly and meticulously. The SpaceX people - whoever they are - will have the credentials to design a new system I'm sure, but probably not without breaking things for years to come.
And they can't just rip it out and replace it, that would likely cripple airlines. Which may be by design of course, but why would they want their own people to no longer be able to fly?
To be fair, a system like ACAS is quite old and modern systems with better margins are currently developed and tested, they use techniques such as logic of dynamical systems to proof that the collision avoidance is working as intended. If one can accelerate these it would be an improvement. Don't know about air traffic control, but Europe seems to more advanced.
Die as a result of giving attention to and upgrading air traffic control systems? Didn't a bunch of people die recently as a result of not intervening in this manner?
The Verge is... often a nauseating experience because between every line they're hammering a side-hustle point with blunt force.
Duffy: "I’m asking for help from any high-tech American developer or company that is willing to give back to our country..."
Duffy: "...learn what air traffic controllers like and dislike about their current tools, and envision how we can make a new, better, modern and safer system....Zero air traffic controllers and critical safety personnel were let go"
Sounds like they're asking air traffic controllers what they need. I doubt Musk will storm in with kitchen sink, light a cigar and put his boots up on the console.
The quote from Duffy indicates that the SpaceX team doesn't have any real knowledge about or experience with the FAA systems. Seems like they're being brought in just because they're a Musk company.
The quote also doesn't indicate the SpaceX team is being "brought in to overhaul FAA systems", that seems like a big mistake if that tweet is all they are basing it on. The tweet says the FAA is tasked with overhauling their ATC system, and people from SpaceX are visiting to share ideas, and it seems to include an open invitation to others to do the same.
Political pettiness, and speculation about whether Musk got some special favor or advantage that would not be available to other companies aside, it doesn't seem like a bad idea to get cross-pollination and share ideas with other organizations and fields. SpaceX may not know much about ATC but they probably do know something about monitoring and control and collision avoidance in rockets and satellites.
While the team might not know much about FAA yet, they have high trust and a good working relationship with the guy who knows more about everything than everyone so maybe that's why this will work out great
Yeah, his history is basically bringing in people he can trust because he can control them and then making them do what he wants to get the outcome he needs. It's a pattern across all of his companies and endeavors.
Compared to what, just rolling the dice? SpaceX isn't the only shop that can deliver against requirements.
Procurement bids should be transparent and avoid the illusion of conflict. This is the complete opposite of that. It's hard to take Musk's campaign against "fraud and waste" serious when he's awarding the contracts to himself.
Before all of the crashes recently with the FAA it has been having a large resource gap (for more than a decade) and that there was a plan in 2024 was on plan to hire thousands. [1][2] This got to the point that they were cutting minimum flying requirements (airlines losing takeoffs and landing slots) [3]. A big problem with even getting people to have a job at the ATC is that it doesn't really pay that well and the main source of hiring of people is former pilots especially when it can have long hours and shifts. I see this more as what happens when you stretch recommended staffing levels to the point where 90% of ATC towers are understaffed[4].
And some strong evidence that DOGE is rewriting government databases to cover their tracks: https://xcancel.com/electricfutures/status/18920196528358073... (Note how petty this is - DOGE appears to be falsifying data rather than publicly admitting they were wrong! I assume Elon is personally responsible, just like Trump personally drew on the map with a Sharpie.)
Readit News
Just feels like corruption, tbh.
If a democrat did this, it would (rightly!) be seen as a front-page scandal on the scale of Teapot Dome if not worse.
The govt can be paying those folks directly or Musk himself can be paying them like he did for some DOGE team members.
Sounds like the ideal government...
Deleted Comment
Tesla stock roughly doubled following the election! That's obviously not because Trump is going to be a champion for electric vehicles and green energy, he couldn't be more hostile to them. Investors know that Elon is going to suck insane amounts of money out of the government with his new level of access and most of that will flow through his companies.
> get a firsthand look at the current system, learn what air traffic controllers like and dislike about their current tools, and envision how we can make a new, better, modern and safer system
based on this they can come in to scope out a project and send it out for bidding
None?
> What was the bidding process like?
What bidding process? Remember when it's the "special WH employee" hiring his own company that's all fine and dandy
> Is there a problem statement beyond "it has some old bits"? What are the specific goals?
Every system can be improved, but I think the current issues with ATC in the US are not of a technical nature per se
ATC is much more than controllers watching planes on radar screens
Also remember this is a system that has been continuously evolving since WWII pretty much (and possibly before) and that one of the recent "breaking backwards compatibility" was NDBs being decommissioned in the US (bit by bit)
Source that SpaceX was hired for this? The article makes no such claims and has no sources saying that.
According to Trump, yes. This is what he said:
> When I land in my plane, privately, I use a system from another country because...I won't tell you what country... because the captain says this system is so bad, it's so obsolete, that we can't have that.
- https://www.forbes.com/sites/suzannerowankelleher/2025/02/06...
Fits in with the first term in which Trump baffled airline executives by assuring them that he'd help solve the problem with the airports giving them the wrong equipment[1], also based on apparently failing to understand an anecdote from his private pilot
There is actually a very long term project to modernise US ATC (less on safety grounds and more on congestion minimization grounds) it's even one in which theoretically a satellite constellation operator could have some involvement as a data provider. But but it's something of an understatement to suggest that this is unlikely to be advanced by an administration lead by someone who thinks he understands aviation based on misunderstanding his pilot and someone whose first foray into improving the FAA was to arbitrarily fire hundreds of FAA staff and whose main goal for the FAA is to deregulate space launches...
[1]https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/re...
> Trump ... seemed to mix up a plane’s onboard electronics system with the federal air traffic control system.
The problem statement is: I don't own this yet. And the goal is: I run everything now.
It IS blatant corruption. A foreign national is using his private enterprises to take over government agencies and is backed by a traitor who only cares about his own money and power.
If there ever was a more blatant episode of corruption it's what's going on in the US right now.
Dead Comment
Building software which respect to probabilistic risk analysis. This includes techniques such as abstract interpretation and theorem for for the logic of dynamical system etc. I guess spacex expertise in these realm is quite advanced and they do something useful.
And they can't just rip it out and replace it, that would likely cripple airlines. Which may be by design of course, but why would they want their own people to no longer be able to fly?
The Verge is... often a nauseating experience because between every line they're hammering a side-hustle point with blunt force.
Duffy: "I’m asking for help from any high-tech American developer or company that is willing to give back to our country..."
Duffy: "...learn what air traffic controllers like and dislike about their current tools, and envision how we can make a new, better, modern and safer system....Zero air traffic controllers and critical safety personnel were let go"
Sounds like they're asking air traffic controllers what they need. I doubt Musk will storm in with kitchen sink, light a cigar and put his boots up on the console.
Political pettiness, and speculation about whether Musk got some special favor or advantage that would not be available to other companies aside, it doesn't seem like a bad idea to get cross-pollination and share ideas with other organizations and fields. SpaceX may not know much about ATC but they probably do know something about monitoring and control and collision avoidance in rockets and satellites.
Procurement bids should be transparent and avoid the illusion of conflict. This is the complete opposite of that. It's hard to take Musk's campaign against "fraud and waste" serious when he's awarding the contracts to himself.
I think this move is a mistake, but what your describing there is just competent management.
[1]https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/controller_staf... [2] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-faa-cuts-minimum-flight-... [3]https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/faa-nomin... [4] https://www.cbsnews.com/news/over-90-percent-u-s-airport-tow...
Trump administration fires and then tries to rehire nuclear weapons workers in DOGE reversal https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doge-firings-us-nuclear-weapons...
USDA accidentally fired officials working on bird flu and is now trying to rehire them https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/doge/usda-accidentally-fire...
And some strong evidence that DOGE is rewriting government databases to cover their tracks: https://xcancel.com/electricfutures/status/18920196528358073... (Note how petty this is - DOGE appears to be falsifying data rather than publicly admitting they were wrong! I assume Elon is personally responsible, just like Trump personally drew on the map with a Sharpie.)