Editing to add:
You get 2 free restroom passes with a frequent flier account. A Medallion, Star Alliance, Gold Preferred, or a close personal relationship with an active-duty servicemember or honorably discharged veteran entitles you to an additional one free pass. Timed usage fees apply afterwards. Terms and conditions apply. Void where prohibited by law. Consult your doctor if restroom usage during travel is appropriate for you.
People love to joke, but the reality is that people don't value the things that are being removed -- that's why they're being removed.
WestJet, their main competitor, did this ages ago. People weren't switching en masse despite roughly the same route network. Ergo, it didn't matter to people, so removing it was reasonable. This gave them the ability to lower the sticker price, and makes them more competitive.
Airlines have awful margins. Literally, awful. AA's net margin in 0.5%. AC's net margin is around 10%.
[edit] I'm super tall, and I love flying LCCs like RyanAir and EasyJet, because they charge virtually nothing to get on, and then a low, reasonable fee for an exit row. I pay for what I want, and they're super timely. Economy is economy. On the premium cabin side, sure, there's room to differentiate.
Economy is economy, sure, but “economy” hides the fact that it is the only option for the vast majority of travelers. Almost everyone here has the financial security to spring for comfort if they want it, but that is not true for the broader population.
I think that view is overly generous. On flights where free check in luggage is offered there’s plenty of room for carry ons in the cabin, so a good amount of people clearly opt for check in when it is free. When they started charging for check in is when it became the norm that people where then pushed to gate check their carry ons for free once space was getting full. People were shifting their behavior to avoid the fee. The result, not surprisingly, is that fee avoidance is too common so the airlines make it more difficult to do so.
It is, of course, a “hidden” price hike with the advantage that your flight remains ranked higher when sorting by price.
I'm certain I read at one point that if you added the total profits of the airline industry from the beginning until now, it's Jess than zero. I don't know whether it's true but it seems like it could be.
> - help load and unload the checked luggage for extra loyalty points
I would legitimately want this; I have a big fear of my luggage going missing (so as much as possible, I try to do only carry-on if I can cram everything in), so being able to personally load the luggage in the plane I'm flying in would actually be extremely anxiety reducing for me.
Every air canada flight I have been on in the past few years always has the overhead bins full.
I absolutely refuse to check in carry on because they have lost my bags or I have had to wait 2 hours for the bags to get on the carrousel.
I was thinking if we can somehow redesign air planes to have less under cargo space and more carry on space? I have never heard of the cargo store being full.
Be the at the front of the line for your zone. You will only be forced to check if there is no room and if you are first in your zone there will be room.
Alternatively there are certain things which cannot go into checked baggage such as batteries so you can pack batteries or other things which cannot go into cargo into your carryon baggage.
The new airframes (e.g. Max 8) have much larger overhead bins where the roller bags can sit vertically but it's going to take a long time for AC to retire the old fleet. Last week I was on an AC A321 that was old enough to have no WiFi, no IFE, and no plugs. It was a late flight so I just slept but it was kind of jarring to remember that it wasn't too long ago that none of those features were standard (I looked it up, I believe the airframe was made in 1997)
Newer planes do this, but broadly speaking airlines have no desire to give you overhead space. There's an established expectation that they can charge for checked bags, but anything they don't use can be sold as freight space for cargo. Air Canada does this and the money they make from it (~5% of revenue) accounts for a significant portion of their net margin.
Plus, the favorite pastime of Canadian airlines seems to be discovering how shoddy they can make their service before there are public riots.
>I absolutely refuse to check in carry on because they have lost my bags or I have had to wait 2 hours for the bags to get on the carrousel.
I've never had this problem. But I've also never flown with Air Canada; is this a problem you've had with Air Canada specifically, or air travel in general?
I have read in recent years a lot of negative stuff about Air Canada from unhappy passengers. It sounds like it's even worse now than the worst American carriers.
It's Air Canada specifically. As a Canadian, I avoid them at all costs. Actually, I just avoid flying within Canada as much as possible (and especially avoid any transit through Toronto Pearson). I fly to and from Europe regularly (4x or so per year) and to the US now and then to visit family, and there's no hell like dealing with Air Canada or Canadian airports.
In theory this type of price differentiation is good since it allows extremely budget conscious folks to travel for very cheap with no-frills options while allowing others to travel with the same amenities for the same price except certain things are add-ons rather than built in to the price of the ticket.
The problem is that the universal implementation is that the "no-frills" tickets end up being the same price as they were before when they included things like carry on bags while tickets that include such "luxuries" end up even more expensive, leaving every single passenger feeling ripped off.
I feel like I'm missing something in this space since every airline is doing it but it makes no real sense from a consumer perspective. Price differentiation on extremely low-cost options makes sense, but only if it actually feels like a deal rather than paying the same price for a worse product, which is almost always what seems to happen.
Customers bitch about bad service but they buy the cheapest option every time. Partly it's an information problem - the median leisure traveller flys maybe once every couple of years and has only the vaguest idea of what each airline's offering looks like, so they go for what the price comparison website says. But I think it's mostly just that people are lying to themselves about their priorities.
I don’t think it’s actually true that people are “paying the same price for a worse product”. This is an area where one has to be extremely careful because it’s not the case that all the input costs are held steady so you’d see a decrease in actual fare when switching to price discrimination. One possibility is that input costs have gone up but the lowest price stays the same with worse amenities.
> The problem is that the universal implementation is that the "no-frills" tickets end up being the same price as they were before when they included things like carry on bags while tickets that include such "luxuries" end up even more expensive, leaving every single passenger feeling ripped off.
Do you have any evidence for this or is it just vibes? Given that airlines have low profit margins and customers are extremely price sensitive it seems unlikely to be true.
Companies are people. People need to do stuff to justify their jobs. If they’re doing the same as everyone else, then it’s a safe change. Nobody thinks the changes are good for business, but they think they’re good for their own careers.
The problem with airline-level price differentiation is that it introduces too much congitive load that makes flying more stressful, so people will pay to alleviate the stress rather than get the features they want.
> The real price of airline fare has been going down for decades
Are they comparing like for like?
An economy fare on eg BA 30 years ago is very different to an economy (or is that "economy basic") fare these days. As were the seats, staff, service etc
I am back to Cleveland from my vacation in Florida and this is the first time I refused to fly there, decided to spend 2 days driving with a night in Charlotte NC (didn't realize it is such a modern and vibrant city) instead. It ended up cheaper even taking into account a night in Sheraton than economy tickets + baggage for 3 people. Plus we got to see so much more, experience something else rather standing in line, insane charges for baggage, security etc.
Exactly my thoughts, the current pricing model incentives people to cram as much as possible into their carry-on and stretch the definition of their extra "personal item" (not sure if all airlines allow those), leading to all kinds of shenanigans especially on full flights. I think the situation would improve a lot if you were always given 1 free bag to check in and a paid option for a carry-on, especially if they can guarantee the space.
Yes I always thought that airlines wanted to encourage checked bags because people having to stow their carry-on bags dramatically slows down the time needed for boarding.
I do wonder when these restrictions will run into discrimination against those with disabilities. Many assistive devices and medications cannot be separated from the person and go in luggage because of temperature issues.
Readit News
- discounted standing room only tickets (pending FAA approval) on short flights
- frequent 60 second ads on the seat-back monitors and in the bathrooms. You can pay extra for an ad-free experience
- help load and unload the checked luggage for extra loyalty points
- “no-rush” shipping for your checked luggage
- a Premium Elite Sky Safety ™®© program where you get more oxygen and priority assistance in the unlikely event of loss of cabin pressure or crash.
Editing to add: You get 2 free restroom passes with a frequent flier account. A Medallion, Star Alliance, Gold Preferred, or a close personal relationship with an active-duty servicemember or honorably discharged veteran entitles you to an additional one free pass. Timed usage fees apply afterwards. Terms and conditions apply. Void where prohibited by law. Consult your doctor if restroom usage during travel is appropriate for you.
WestJet, their main competitor, did this ages ago. People weren't switching en masse despite roughly the same route network. Ergo, it didn't matter to people, so removing it was reasonable. This gave them the ability to lower the sticker price, and makes them more competitive.
Airlines have awful margins. Literally, awful. AA's net margin in 0.5%. AC's net margin is around 10%.
[edit] I'm super tall, and I love flying LCCs like RyanAir and EasyJet, because they charge virtually nothing to get on, and then a low, reasonable fee for an exit row. I pay for what I want, and they're super timely. Economy is economy. On the premium cabin side, sure, there's room to differentiate.
It is, of course, a “hidden” price hike with the advantage that your flight remains ranked higher when sorting by price.
$5.99 per use or for $29.99 get the LavPass which gives unlimited use for 24 hours, or LavPass Max for $79.99 which allows unlimited use for one year.
I would legitimately want this; I have a big fear of my luggage going missing (so as much as possible, I try to do only carry-on if I can cram everything in), so being able to personally load the luggage in the plane I'm flying in would actually be extremely anxiety reducing for me.
Deleted Comment
I was thinking if we can somehow redesign air planes to have less under cargo space and more carry on space? I have never heard of the cargo store being full.
Alternatively there are certain things which cannot go into checked baggage such as batteries so you can pack batteries or other things which cannot go into cargo into your carryon baggage.
Why I don't ever check bags unless I'm travelling for more than two weeks:
TSA steals items from bags
TSA opens your bag and damages items
Airport staff steals items from bags
Whole bag gets lost
Whole bag gets stolen by airport staff
Waiting hours for bag to come out on the carousel
Bag gets sent to the wrong place
Bag doesn't make it on to the plane
They charge you for the privilege of all of the above
Plus, the favorite pastime of Canadian airlines seems to be discovering how shoddy they can make their service before there are public riots.
I've never had this problem. But I've also never flown with Air Canada; is this a problem you've had with Air Canada specifically, or air travel in general?
I have read in recent years a lot of negative stuff about Air Canada from unhappy passengers. It sounds like it's even worse now than the worst American carriers.
The problem is that the universal implementation is that the "no-frills" tickets end up being the same price as they were before when they included things like carry on bags while tickets that include such "luxuries" end up even more expensive, leaving every single passenger feeling ripped off.
I feel like I'm missing something in this space since every airline is doing it but it makes no real sense from a consumer perspective. Price differentiation on extremely low-cost options makes sense, but only if it actually feels like a deal rather than paying the same price for a worse product, which is almost always what seems to happen.
Do you have any evidence for this or is it just vibes? Given that airlines have low profit margins and customers are extremely price sensitive it seems unlikely to be true.
Low profit margins but companies like United can pay their CEO ~20MM?
Deleted Comment
Or perhaps some type of shrinkflation, just offering less services at the same price.
Dead Comment
In part thanks to changes like this I almost never bring a carry on and it bothers me that I have to pay for it anyway on some airlines.
Are they comparing like for like?
An economy fare on eg BA 30 years ago is very different to an economy (or is that "economy basic") fare these days. As were the seats, staff, service etc
If there were a less uncomfortable and cheaper option, many more people would fly
On the other hand, checked bags should be free/at a discount.
I have not understood why the pricing was inverse.