I lost a good friend to this. Hope it helps other people.
The meds helped him but he didn't like the side effects so he stopped taking them. Went in and out of homelessness. In the end he thought he had superpowers and could fly. He could fly, but he could not land. It eventually took him.
Oh man, I'm probably half schizophrenic, tried some antipsychotics at some point and had same reaction, and recently started to spend most my time outside (sleeping too), I found a nice spot. Fortunately I still have my remote developer job, and try to remain stable but I'm over sensitive and in the long run I can't sleep in my apartment (noise, smells - cigarette, here in France, it's horrible, maybe WIFI waves too). But isolation tends to makes me a bit more tolerant to people, I love birds and any really natural living being though
I'm not a professional, and I'm not diagnosing, but I am diagnosed autistic and I share some of what you're talking about here.
I'm sensitive to noise, smells, lights and vibrations (living next to a very busy road, I can feel almost every large non-electric vehicle go by -- makes working from home hard at points).
Worth reading into if you have the energy. I do know folks who are diagnosed with schizophrenia and they seem to have an underlying component of some neurodivergence (arguably schizophrenia should also be considered neurodivergence) and went through an extreme burnout/traumatic event.
Just out of curiosity (no obligation to respond): how long have you been experiencing these difficulties? Have you always been sensitive to these things?
Certified nutcase comment lmao, WIFI waves do not do anything are you gonna buy some shugnite rocks too like the two timer, also smoke smell, move then or move out of city. Im mentally ill too but its mild autism, adhd (takes me all day to watch a 2h movie I pause adn pause and pauise and pause and pause and pause) and depression (I recently cleaned my fridge from 4 year old rotting food) but astleast I sleep inside.
> The meds helped him but he didn't like the side effects so he stopped taking them.
This is frustrating to me as a long time psych med user. If the meds have intolerable side effects then the meds do not help. Period. I do better off my meds than anything they ever tried to give me.
The system failed your friend. Not his ability to tolerate these horrible side effects.
IF we actually cared about human life we would have done much more to help your friend, but we did not. We care about human life up to the point it starts diminishing our comfort, and I am afraid we are valuing our comfort more and more than we care about others who are suffering in the last thirty years.
> The meds helped him but he didn't like the side effects so he stopped taking them.
They, their family, or guardian should have consulted their psychiatrist to tune the meds for less side effects or to switch them. That is what psychiatrists are there for.
Especially for schizophrenics, they should never have the option to get off meds, in fact there should be a long acting backup med to go with the normal treatment in case the patient were to skip a dose.
Those with experience with schizophrenia know this is the hardest part of dealing with this mental illness - getting the patient into treatment and onto meds. Sure it is easy to maintain meds, but on boarding is the biggest challenge - that once it is setup, working, and bringing the patient back to reality it needs to be maintained, otherwise the patient and family have another long, uphill battle getting the patient back under treatment.
It appears there is more suffering and misery out there than any single concerted effort could solve.
I’m in NYC and just yesterday saw a homeless guy pick up a used needle from the street and check to see if it had any drugs left in it. The story that led him that state, and where that story goes from here, multiplied by thousands of people in a big city alone…it’s hard to imagine solving that.
It is often not the common side effects: "gain weight, fall asleep and experience involuntary muscle jerking" that cause people to stop taking meds.
It is that their brain feels different, not like how it should be.
Now involuntary muscle jerking has a high stigma.
It can, in the worst cases be highly visible.
The new drugs seem to stop this drawback and instead
introduces vomiting.
That would be even worse.
The worst part of the article though is the frequent reference to homeless people.
and that seems to be written by someone who has no idea of the realities.
A majority of homeless people do not have access to even basic healthcare.
There are different reasons for this, but it is true of the majority.
You dont have a look that closely to see open wounds, some infected, esp on
feet and legs. These are basic healthcare concerns.
Probably they have several other conditions that require treatment,
and deficiencies due to a lack of food period, and certain lack of food that
is nutritious and healthy.
Are the doctors just going to walk up and down the lines of homeless giving
out bottles of pills and hope the world will change?
These types of drugs should always be closely monitored by a psychiatrist.
Which is made nearly impossible with homeless people.
(not to mention the cost. It could have high co-pays but I hope there are programs
that can mitigate this.
The only way to do this is to give the person a place to live.
Ensure the person has healthy and decent food.
This will require time and treatment so build up a new sense of
safety.
Once achieved treatment for schizophrenia could start with the drug and be
closely monitored by professionals.
None of the drugs to treat mental health issues will work on all,
And some people will have strong side effects.
My read on the one reference to homelessness in the article was that a life-changing medication that can help with a disease like schizophrenia can prevent homelessness in the first place.
I have a close family member that had a psychotic episode during the pandemic. They were hospitalized but were eventually able to get effective treatment and medication and now live a mostly normal life.
Had they not had the support to get proper medication, I have a hard time seeing how they wouldn’t end up homeless.
That isn't how that works. That isn't how any of this works.
21% [1] of homeless have a serious mental illness that predates their living situation, of which an even smaller chunk is schizophrenia. The major reasons for homelessness are predominantly financial (also [1]). We think that the sequence of events is mental illness/drugs → homelessness → poverty, but the true sequence is an averse financial event + lack of support → homelessness → mental illness (as a result of the homelessness) → drugs to cope.
We saw the most pronounced examples of this in Houston's homeless program, which has a 90% success rate by providing housing first [2]. For many, having a safe home is the only resource needed to get clean.
Homelessness is torture. Anyone in that situation would turn to drugs to cope. Demonizing the drugs is flying straight over the cause of the drugs themselves. If you want to fix homelessness, give homeless people homes.
"The only way to do this is to give the person a place to live."
The people who are homeless are homeless because they, due to drugs, alcohol, or mental illness aren't safe to have around others of extreme poverty.
My friend operate several halfway houses. Almost weekly he has to kick someone out because they are a danger to staff or other clients. Generally this is at 2am, and the police are involved.
Our society has decided that institutionalizing people is inhumane. Well, if someone isn't safe enough to be in a halfway house and institutions are inhumane, the only place for them to go is the street, and, eventually, if they are lucky, prison.
> The only way to do this is to give the person a place to live. Ensure the person has healthy and decent food. This will require time and treatment so build up a new sense of safety.
> Once achieved treatment for schizophrenia could start with the drug and be closely monitored by professionals.
At least for mental illness, the US state run mental hospitals should be reopened to put the mentally ill under care, monitoring, and to get them back on medicine.
Modern psychiatric medicine could reverse the issues that used to stigmatize the mentally ill.
Improperly supervised psychiatric patients are a nightmare, if for no other reason than they often don’t take the drugs that make them not a nightmare.
That means stand-alone housing just won’t work properly.
Now you see, they're selling it with a huuuuge markup, just for that FDA's "stamp" on the box. But inside the packaging, it's just... this. But to everyone their own, I guess.
You're suggesting to people that they should buy research use only chemicals and attempt to compound them at home? That is incredibly irresponsible and dangerous.
If you don't trust people to compound a drug for their own use, why would you trust them to not jump off a bridge, to not kill or injure a passerby, or not to perform other serious antisocial actions? Of course this is a way deeper issue, but I tend to approach it this way. In the Western values, we tend to value freedom, also as freedom of people to self-define, very high, despite the risks it takes. And this, this is a modern part of exactly the same dilemma.
People already do exactly that, and with some basic knowledge (which should and probably will be in 20-30 years a common knowledge) it's much safer than one could expect.
Of course, it'd be ideal if they wouldn't need to worry about it and could leave this to a person who is guaranteed to be more knowledgeable in doing that, but with all the over-regulation burden, drug patents, drug schedules, it's not happening. Example of that is, precisely, the price of this. It could literally be 2000x smaller if we only get rid of that burden, which was created to give some people profit. And if we subside that with taxes, these taxes go to the pocket of a gatekept and protected-by-the-state manufacturer. That's not how taxes should even work, they should benefit the society instead.
> M4 and M1 receptor stimulation indirectly rebalances dopaminergic and glutamatergic circuits involved in the symptoms associated with neurological and neuropsychiatric diseases such as schizophrenia and Alzheimer's disease.
That's quite a handsome return. Which BMS feels empowered to do to since they can charge exorbitant amounts for it
I often am against the narrative that every pill should be priced at the cost of manufacturing + healthy margin, since by that logic the first pill should cost billions to cover for the R&D. In this case, it doesn't quite translate.
"Childhood Trauma is probably the most important environmental factor associated with Schizophrenia. There is evidence of multiple paths between traumatic experiences and psychosis. Mental disorders are systems of interacting symptoms through a framework of networks. Psychotic symptoms in patients with a history of child abuse are more severe, persistent, and refractory to treatment. In developmental years, exposure to neglect and abuse reveals severe adverse effects on the average neurobiological growth, leading to vulnerable neurobiology preceding disadvantageous psychiatric outcomes."
"The guiding principles of trauma-specific care can give you the space to uncover the root of your schizophrenia and trauma. Thus, understanding how your early traumas have impacted you opens the door to dismantling maladaptive coping mechanisms. As you deepen your self-understanding, it encourages you to lean into adaptive coping strategies to process your experiences and life stressors. Furthermore, with support, you can find a path to recovery from schizophrenia and trauma that considers you and your specific experiences."
i'm getting very argumentative on the internet today (under a pseudonymous account because as you might guess from my incessant posting, this issue is personal for me)
trauma (at any time), drug use, other experiences -- all can make schizophrenia more likely in those susceptible. absolutely true.
but it is a biological disease, and healing trauma won't stop its progression. as your source notes, the trauma causes differences in brain development, and once that's done its done.
i don't think coming up with a new drug, the main advantage of which is it doesn't numb you the horrible way existing antipychotics do, is a bad thing.
this is basically a drug that was only created to improve the QoL of people with schizophrenia. if society just wanted to numb them, we already have drugs for that and could just be much more aggressive in violently coercing treatment.
investing in these drugs isn't "looking away", it's putting in a huge investment of many billions of dollars to help the victims live better lives.
"As such, the hippocampus and hippocampal neuroplasticity may also play a key role in resilience and recovery from stress. This is supported by the current finding that hippocampal volume increased following psychological therapy."
I want to be charitable because I think I know the point you're trying to make in your comment, and what I want to say is mostly to the side of that. But I think that this statement at best glosses over what's been a long, expensive, and heated (though sincere) scientific conversation about schizophrenia over the past century and change. It's one that not only includes a substantively fruitless search for any underlying pathophysiology, but a spirited conversation about the validity, reliability, and plain-English usefulness of the concept itself! Further, this conversation is far from the stomping grounds of cranks and scammers; it has taken place inside what you might call the most orthodox psychiatric and psychological institutions: the APA, the major high-impact journals, fancy universities etc etc.
So when an eminence like Robin Murray, knighthood and all, can go into Schizophrenia Bulletin (2017) and write something like ...
"I expect to see the end of the concept of schizophrenia soon. Already the evidence that it is a discrete entity rather than just the severe end of psychosis has been fatally undermined. Furthermore, the syndrome is already beginning to breakdown, for example, into those cases caused by copy number variations, drug abuse, social adversity, etc. Presumably this process will accelerate, and the term schizophrenia will be confined to history, like 'dropsy.'" [1]
... saying that we know it's a biological disease as part of broader claims about treatment effectiveness doesn't tell the whole story. (I encourage everyone to read Murray's reflections in the linked article, as it's a fascinating retrospective on an illustrious career in psychosis research and psychiatry.)
Schlesselmann, A. J., Huntjens, R. J., Renard, S. B., McNally, R. J., Albers, C. J., De Vries, V. E., & Pijnenborg, G. H. (2022).
A Network Approach to Trauma, Dissociative Symptoms, and Psychosis Symptoms in Schizophrenia Spectrum Disorders.
Schizophrenia Bulletin
https://doi.org/10.1093/schbul/sbac122
"Ccongruent with the idea of an association between stressful life events and dissociative experiences, research has established a link between the presence and severity of dissociation and reported interpersonal traumas such as sexual, physical, and emotional abuse, with multiple traumas being linked to more severe symptoms.
In SSD populations up to 60% of individuals report a history of interpersonal trauma. The core explanation for the mechanism linking trauma and symptoms of SSD states that trauma leads to a vulnerability rendering the individual susceptible to the experience of perceptual and sensory intrusions. In line with the idea of trauma as a vulnerability factor for psychotic as well as for dissociative symptoms, studies have shown that more frequent dissociative and more severe psychotic symptoms in SSD are linked to reported trauma in a dose-response relationship."
> with support, you can find a path to recovery from schizophrenia
They misspelled "medication". There are narrow situations where very skilled psychiatrists have successfully treated schizophrenics using non-pharma (read: traditional) psychotherapy, but they are truly exceptional cases.
Being schizophrenic is not a lack of "deepening your self-understanding" that blocks them from "uncovering the root of " their illness! That is absolutely horse shit and belongs in a new age Homeopathy boutique.
Schizophrenics firmly believe their delusions and paranoia. In fact, one of the worst things you can say to them is "it's all in your head! The voices aren't real!". Commonly, they split the world into allies and suspects, so the moment you try to invalidate them, they add you to the list of agents/spirits/whatever is after them.
This disease requires a psychiatrist and medication, full stop, and is fully orthogonal to child abuse.
Hardy, A., Keen, N., van den Berg, D., Varese, F., Longden, E., Ward, T., & Brand, R. M. (2023). Trauma therapies for psychosis: A state‐of‐the‐art review. Psychology and Psychotherapy: Theory, Research and Practice. https://doi.org/10.1111/papt.12499
Schlesselmann, A. J., Huntjens, R. J., Renard, S. B., McNally, R. J., Albers, C. J., De Vries, V. E., & Pijnenborg, G. H. (2022). A Network Approach to Trauma, Dissociative Symptoms, and Psychosis Symptoms in Schizophrenia Spectrum Disorders. Schizophrenia Bulletin https://doi.org/10.1093/schbul/sbac122
look, if someone has actually have a new drug that works like antipsychotics but doesn't have the nightmare side effects, i am very happy for that person to get filthy rich.
if this pans out the way they hope, by all means give the lead guy a couple yachts or whatever he wants. space tourism, gold statue of himself, whatever. big bonuses all the way down the org chart.
there's the potential to reduce an absolutely staggering amount of human misery here. frankly (again if this pans out) our homelessness crisis would look very different if this drug had existed 20 years ago, when the mechanism of action was discovered.
the people who cared enough and took a huge concentrated risk to do this should just get rich, if in fact it pans out.
> Homeless people are unlikely to pay $20 000 per year which is the price of the drug though.
True, but think about all the people who are fully functioning and productive members of society and got afflicted with this disease. This med will increase the likelihood that they continue to be highly functioning and compliant with the treatment. This will allow them to keep their jobs and cognitive abilities.
Every person I know with this disease has trouble sticking to meds due to side effects, and not sticking to the meds and relapsing multiple times is probably one of the most important reasons that their condition regresses.
I agree that price feels shockingly high. However, the government can subsidize treatment. As can private insurance policies, before the sufferer becomes homeless, or if they qualify for a family member's plan.
The population suffering these illnesses are already costing the public a lot of money in various forms, it could be worth the investment.
Drugs become generic eventually and costs come down.
Zyprexa, which was mentioned in the article, is almost always prescribed as generic Olanzapine. Cost as of 2024 for generic - 9 USD, brand name 476 USD.
a necessary evil in a capitalist system. Is capitalism perfect? No. Do we know of a better system yet? Maybe. But as of right now better to have a possible cure for 20k rather then nothing.
"frankly (again if this pans out) our homelessness crisis would look very different if this drug had existed 20 years ago"
Are there numbers, for how many homeless people, are suffering from schizophrenia?
I would assume only a very small number of homeless people has the clinical condition, but those who have it, are just very visible. Most homeless people are hidden usually and avoid attention.
If I were to guess, I would say that while many people may experience bouts of homelessness, the ones with schizophrenia are more likely to be persistently homeless.
this is completely true, but they take up a very disproportionate amount of time and energy from social service providers, people who work in shelters, etc, and make all spaces for homeless people much more chaotic.
the crisis would look very different if it was just a mix of people dealing with drug addiction (but basically lucid and rational) and with poverty.
Even those who are not, will probably develop some sort of schizophrenia due to their marginal lifestyle, but I wonder if it's really a "disease", I feel like it's an adaptation to their environment for people who are more sensitive than others. I feel like the pain is more due to the lack of solutions, especially in a city centre, where it's a constant hell for these guys (and for most any other animal actually, except a few who adapted to that: pigeons, rats, some insects but not the most beautiful ones), just my thought
Readit News
The meds helped him but he didn't like the side effects so he stopped taking them. Went in and out of homelessness. In the end he thought he had superpowers and could fly. He could fly, but he could not land. It eventually took him.
I'm sensitive to noise, smells, lights and vibrations (living next to a very busy road, I can feel almost every large non-electric vehicle go by -- makes working from home hard at points).
Worth reading into if you have the energy. I do know folks who are diagnosed with schizophrenia and they seem to have an underlying component of some neurodivergence (arguably schizophrenia should also be considered neurodivergence) and went through an extreme burnout/traumatic event.
Hope you're able to get some peace!
Certified nutcase comment lmao, WIFI waves do not do anything are you gonna buy some shugnite rocks too like the two timer, also smoke smell, move then or move out of city. Im mentally ill too but its mild autism, adhd (takes me all day to watch a 2h movie I pause adn pause and pauise and pause and pause and pause) and depression (I recently cleaned my fridge from 4 year old rotting food) but astleast I sleep inside.
This is frustrating to me as a long time psych med user. If the meds have intolerable side effects then the meds do not help. Period. I do better off my meds than anything they ever tried to give me.
The system failed your friend. Not his ability to tolerate these horrible side effects.
IF we actually cared about human life we would have done much more to help your friend, but we did not. We care about human life up to the point it starts diminishing our comfort, and I am afraid we are valuing our comfort more and more than we care about others who are suffering in the last thirty years.
They, their family, or guardian should have consulted their psychiatrist to tune the meds for less side effects or to switch them. That is what psychiatrists are there for.
Especially for schizophrenics, they should never have the option to get off meds, in fact there should be a long acting backup med to go with the normal treatment in case the patient were to skip a dose.
Those with experience with schizophrenia know this is the hardest part of dealing with this mental illness - getting the patient into treatment and onto meds. Sure it is easy to maintain meds, but on boarding is the biggest challenge - that once it is setup, working, and bringing the patient back to reality it needs to be maintained, otherwise the patient and family have another long, uphill battle getting the patient back under treatment.
I’m in NYC and just yesterday saw a homeless guy pick up a used needle from the street and check to see if it had any drugs left in it. The story that led him that state, and where that story goes from here, multiplied by thousands of people in a big city alone…it’s hard to imagine solving that.
It's probably a common story.
It is often not the common side effects: "gain weight, fall asleep and experience involuntary muscle jerking" that cause people to stop taking meds. It is that their brain feels different, not like how it should be.
Now involuntary muscle jerking has a high stigma. It can, in the worst cases be highly visible. The new drugs seem to stop this drawback and instead introduces vomiting. That would be even worse.
The worst part of the article though is the frequent reference to homeless people. and that seems to be written by someone who has no idea of the realities.
A majority of homeless people do not have access to even basic healthcare. There are different reasons for this, but it is true of the majority. You dont have a look that closely to see open wounds, some infected, esp on feet and legs. These are basic healthcare concerns. Probably they have several other conditions that require treatment, and deficiencies due to a lack of food period, and certain lack of food that is nutritious and healthy.
Are the doctors just going to walk up and down the lines of homeless giving out bottles of pills and hope the world will change?
These types of drugs should always be closely monitored by a psychiatrist. Which is made nearly impossible with homeless people. (not to mention the cost. It could have high co-pays but I hope there are programs that can mitigate this.
The only way to do this is to give the person a place to live. Ensure the person has healthy and decent food. This will require time and treatment so build up a new sense of safety.
Once achieved treatment for schizophrenia could start with the drug and be closely monitored by professionals.
None of the drugs to treat mental health issues will work on all, And some people will have strong side effects.
I have a close family member that had a psychotic episode during the pandemic. They were hospitalized but were eventually able to get effective treatment and medication and now live a mostly normal life.
Had they not had the support to get proper medication, I have a hard time seeing how they wouldn’t end up homeless.
21% [1] of homeless have a serious mental illness that predates their living situation, of which an even smaller chunk is schizophrenia. The major reasons for homelessness are predominantly financial (also [1]). We think that the sequence of events is mental illness/drugs → homelessness → poverty, but the true sequence is an averse financial event + lack of support → homelessness → mental illness (as a result of the homelessness) → drugs to cope.
We saw the most pronounced examples of this in Houston's homeless program, which has a 90% success rate by providing housing first [2]. For many, having a safe home is the only resource needed to get clean.
Homelessness is torture. Anyone in that situation would turn to drugs to cope. Demonizing the drugs is flying straight over the cause of the drugs themselves. If you want to fix homelessness, give homeless people homes.
[1]: https://www.samhsa.gov/blog/addressing-social-determinants-h...
[2]: https://www.thewayhomehouston.org/
The people who are homeless are homeless because they, due to drugs, alcohol, or mental illness aren't safe to have around others of extreme poverty.
My friend operate several halfway houses. Almost weekly he has to kick someone out because they are a danger to staff or other clients. Generally this is at 2am, and the police are involved.
Our society has decided that institutionalizing people is inhumane. Well, if someone isn't safe enough to be in a halfway house and institutions are inhumane, the only place for them to go is the street, and, eventually, if they are lucky, prison.
> Once achieved treatment for schizophrenia could start with the drug and be closely monitored by professionals.
At least for mental illness, the US state run mental hospitals should be reopened to put the mentally ill under care, monitoring, and to get them back on medicine.
Modern psychiatric medicine could reverse the issues that used to stigmatize the mentally ill.
That means stand-alone housing just won’t work properly.
> The only way to do this is to give the person a place to live. Ensure the person has healthy and decent food.
> This will require time and treatment so build up a new sense of safety.
In many ways, just meeting people's basic needs would go farther to address mental health than any miracle drug.
https://www.google.com/search?q=131986-45-3 (Xanomeline) https://www.google.com/search?q=10405-02-4 (Trospium chloride)
Now you see, they're selling it with a huuuuge markup, just for that FDA's "stamp" on the box. But inside the packaging, it's just... this. But to everyone their own, I guess.
People already do exactly that, and with some basic knowledge (which should and probably will be in 20-30 years a common knowledge) it's much safer than one could expect.
Of course, it'd be ideal if they wouldn't need to worry about it and could leave this to a person who is guaranteed to be more knowledgeable in doing that, but with all the over-regulation burden, drug patents, drug schedules, it's not happening. Example of that is, precisely, the price of this. It could literally be 2000x smaller if we only get rid of that burden, which was created to give some people profit. And if we subside that with taxes, these taxes go to the pocket of a gatekept and protected-by-the-state manufacturer. That's not how taxes should even work, they should benefit the society instead.
TL;DR: This is a much wider issue.
Deleted Comment
Whoa. Wonder if that's being evaluated?
I wanted sort of the opposite of this for opioids - work in the body, not the brain. There's been a few attempts but non that passed trials.
This was developed in the UK for £11million and sold to Bristol Myers Squib for USD 14billion...
https://wellcome.org/news/new-treatment-for-schizophrenia-Co...
I often am against the narrative that every pill should be priced at the cost of manufacturing + healthy margin, since by that logic the first pill should cost billions to cover for the R&D. In this case, it doesn't quite translate.
"Childhood Trauma is probably the most important environmental factor associated with Schizophrenia. There is evidence of multiple paths between traumatic experiences and psychosis. Mental disorders are systems of interacting symptoms through a framework of networks. Psychotic symptoms in patients with a history of child abuse are more severe, persistent, and refractory to treatment. In developmental years, exposure to neglect and abuse reveals severe adverse effects on the average neurobiological growth, leading to vulnerable neurobiology preceding disadvantageous psychiatric outcomes."
https://www.theguesthouseocala.com/understanding-the-connect...
"The guiding principles of trauma-specific care can give you the space to uncover the root of your schizophrenia and trauma. Thus, understanding how your early traumas have impacted you opens the door to dismantling maladaptive coping mechanisms. As you deepen your self-understanding, it encourages you to lean into adaptive coping strategies to process your experiences and life stressors. Furthermore, with support, you can find a path to recovery from schizophrenia and trauma that considers you and your specific experiences."
trauma (at any time), drug use, other experiences -- all can make schizophrenia more likely in those susceptible. absolutely true.
but it is a biological disease, and healing trauma won't stop its progression. as your source notes, the trauma causes differences in brain development, and once that's done its done.
i don't think coming up with a new drug, the main advantage of which is it doesn't numb you the horrible way existing antipychotics do, is a bad thing.
this is basically a drug that was only created to improve the QoL of people with schizophrenia. if society just wanted to numb them, we already have drugs for that and could just be much more aggressive in violently coercing treatment.
investing in these drugs isn't "looking away", it's putting in a huge investment of many billions of dollars to help the victims live better lives.
"As such, the hippocampus and hippocampal neuroplasticity may also play a key role in resilience and recovery from stress. This is supported by the current finding that hippocampal volume increased following psychological therapy."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5943737/
"we found a significant [hippocampal] volume expansion during a 12-week treatment period, which correlated with clinical improvement"
https://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-32...
Increased hippocampal volume and gene expression following cognitive behavioral therapy in PTSD
https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/human-neuroscience/arti...
I want to be charitable because I think I know the point you're trying to make in your comment, and what I want to say is mostly to the side of that. But I think that this statement at best glosses over what's been a long, expensive, and heated (though sincere) scientific conversation about schizophrenia over the past century and change. It's one that not only includes a substantively fruitless search for any underlying pathophysiology, but a spirited conversation about the validity, reliability, and plain-English usefulness of the concept itself! Further, this conversation is far from the stomping grounds of cranks and scammers; it has taken place inside what you might call the most orthodox psychiatric and psychological institutions: the APA, the major high-impact journals, fancy universities etc etc.
So when an eminence like Robin Murray, knighthood and all, can go into Schizophrenia Bulletin (2017) and write something like ...
"I expect to see the end of the concept of schizophrenia soon. Already the evidence that it is a discrete entity rather than just the severe end of psychosis has been fatally undermined. Furthermore, the syndrome is already beginning to breakdown, for example, into those cases caused by copy number variations, drug abuse, social adversity, etc. Presumably this process will accelerate, and the term schizophrenia will be confined to history, like 'dropsy.'" [1]
... saying that we know it's a biological disease as part of broader claims about treatment effectiveness doesn't tell the whole story. (I encourage everyone to read Murray's reflections in the linked article, as it's a fascinating retrospective on an illustrious career in psychosis research and psychiatry.)
[1] https://academic.oup.com/schizophreniabulletin/article-abstr...
"Ccongruent with the idea of an association between stressful life events and dissociative experiences, research has established a link between the presence and severity of dissociation and reported interpersonal traumas such as sexual, physical, and emotional abuse, with multiple traumas being linked to more severe symptoms.
In SSD populations up to 60% of individuals report a history of interpersonal trauma. The core explanation for the mechanism linking trauma and symptoms of SSD states that trauma leads to a vulnerability rendering the individual susceptible to the experience of perceptual and sensory intrusions. In line with the idea of trauma as a vulnerability factor for psychotic as well as for dissociative symptoms, studies have shown that more frequent dissociative and more severe psychotic symptoms in SSD are linked to reported trauma in a dose-response relationship."
They misspelled "medication". There are narrow situations where very skilled psychiatrists have successfully treated schizophrenics using non-pharma (read: traditional) psychotherapy, but they are truly exceptional cases.
Being schizophrenic is not a lack of "deepening your self-understanding" that blocks them from "uncovering the root of " their illness! That is absolutely horse shit and belongs in a new age Homeopathy boutique.
Schizophrenics firmly believe their delusions and paranoia. In fact, one of the worst things you can say to them is "it's all in your head! The voices aren't real!". Commonly, they split the world into allies and suspects, so the moment you try to invalidate them, they add you to the list of agents/spirits/whatever is after them.
This disease requires a psychiatrist and medication, full stop, and is fully orthogonal to child abuse.
Schäfer, I., & Fisher, H. L. (2022). Childhood trauma and psychosis-what is the evidence? Dialogues in clinical neuroscience. P. 360 – 365. https://doi.org/10.31887/DCNS.2011.13.2/ischaefer
Schlesselmann, A. J., Huntjens, R. J., Renard, S. B., McNally, R. J., Albers, C. J., De Vries, V. E., & Pijnenborg, G. H. (2022). A Network Approach to Trauma, Dissociative Symptoms, and Psychosis Symptoms in Schizophrenia Spectrum Disorders. Schizophrenia Bulletin https://doi.org/10.1093/schbul/sbac122
etc.
if this pans out the way they hope, by all means give the lead guy a couple yachts or whatever he wants. space tourism, gold statue of himself, whatever. big bonuses all the way down the org chart.
there's the potential to reduce an absolutely staggering amount of human misery here. frankly (again if this pans out) our homelessness crisis would look very different if this drug had existed 20 years ago, when the mechanism of action was discovered.
the people who cared enough and took a huge concentrated risk to do this should just get rich, if in fact it pans out.
They already did. Bristol Myer Squibb acquired the company behind this drug for $14 billion earlier this year.
True, but think about all the people who are fully functioning and productive members of society and got afflicted with this disease. This med will increase the likelihood that they continue to be highly functioning and compliant with the treatment. This will allow them to keep their jobs and cognitive abilities.
Every person I know with this disease has trouble sticking to meds due to side effects, and not sticking to the meds and relapsing multiple times is probably one of the most important reasons that their condition regresses.
The population suffering these illnesses are already costing the public a lot of money in various forms, it could be worth the investment.
Zyprexa, which was mentioned in the article, is almost always prescribed as generic Olanzapine. Cost as of 2024 for generic - 9 USD, brand name 476 USD.
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Are there numbers, for how many homeless people, are suffering from schizophrenia?
I would assume only a very small number of homeless people has the clinical condition, but those who have it, are just very visible. Most homeless people are hidden usually and avoid attention.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6880407/
If I were to guess, I would say that while many people may experience bouts of homelessness, the ones with schizophrenia are more likely to be persistently homeless.
the crisis would look very different if it was just a mix of people dealing with drug addiction (but basically lucid and rational) and with poverty.