That's why AppStore monopolize are such a chore. There is no independent judicial authority if something between Google and a App Provider goes wrong. Google playing legeslative, executive and judiciary in one entity.
There is a reason most people in democratic countries don't like it, if there country has all the powers in one hand. At the same time it seams to be accepted for cooperation, as long as there are big enough.
This isn't as much of a problem on Android because it allows installing apks. There's plenty of apps that couldn't possibly be allowed in Google Play that are distributed using alternative means.
It's a much more serious problem with iOS, where if Apple doesn't like your app, your service, your policies, or even your attitude, you just aren't getting your app out to your users, period. But we'll see where EU DMA takes this.
You can't show up in Android Auto unless you're distributed through the Play store (third party things like F-Droid and side loading means your app doesn't show in the car).
Distribution is everything. Controlling distribution through defaults (play store already installed), barriers (pop ups warning you that installing other apps is risky), etc is monopolistic.
I'd argue it's still a problem on Android as google makes it more and more difficult to let alternative installation methods and makes it sound scary :/
Feels unrelated to me. The problem here is that the entity that owns Google Maps also owns the Google Play Store, and uses their ownership of the Google Play Store to favour Google Maps versus competitors.
Even without a monopoly, it should be illegal for the owner of a popular app store to promote their products like this.
They just need to get big fat fines when they do it. But of course, "it was an unfortunate mistake". Or we should just split them: Google Maps could be out of Google.
I don't think it's true that the Google Play Store favors Google-created apps. In fact, while it may have happened, I can't even remember a time that the Play Store recommended a Google app to me.
When app stores act in a way that puts their own interest ahead of the user it harms security, especially when there is no transparency.
If I want this app I am now being sent to download an APK, I lose all the protection of the app store. If they cry wolf enough people will get used to doing that. Then when something comes along that is harmful and they want to yank it genuinely to protect users, people will still download the apk.
In this case you don't have to find and sideload an .apk though, it's available in the main F-Droid repo.
I'd argue that it would be safer than the Play Store version because F-Droid builds are at least reproducible, while it's not clear what checks are actually done by the Play Store before publishing an update. Most of what Play Protect claims to do could be from a simple malware signature check.
Do you really want the government being deeply involved in how every company defines and enforces their own terms of use?
In this case I'm not sure why Google would pull Organic Maps. That doesn't mean we need the government playing a role in defining ever company's terms of service, deciding when they're broken, and enforcing the punishment. How would that even scale?
They already are. Most countries have consumer laws that limit terms and conditions. The same in many other areas (residential renting in many countries, exclusions for negligence that causes injuries or death,....).
Most countries have competition laws that also restrict what companies can do. That is the point here. We need need government intervention when the market lacks competition.
It's exactly how it works. If some behaviour is anti-competitive, it is the role of the government to correct it.
> In this case I'm not sure why Google would pull Organic Maps.
Exactly. Someone competent should decide whether that is an anti-competitive move or not. Noting that a "mistake" may be anti-competitive and may deserve a fine.
Just used it yesterday. It's a great little app to browse OSM data as it is. Much better than Google Maps at finding walkable trails. If only it had the features of overpass turbo, e.g. searching for points tagged with specific attributes.
I agree, Organic Maps is often better than Google Maps for walkable trails, bicycle and hiking paths. I found there are some paths mapped on OSM that are not mapped at all on GMaps.
On the other hand, GMaps is better for up-to-date commercial data like stores and their opening hours. Its navigation system is better too. As much as I'd like to drop all Google services from my life, Maps is too useful to let go.
You can download one of the dozens of OSM-editing apps like:
- streetcomplete
- vespucci
- everydoor
and either add that information yourself or leave a note for other people
This largly depends on the location you are referring to. In many german places / cities, OSM data is often more accurate than Google Maps, even for commercial infos like opening hours. In the end it is up to people to ensure data is up-to-date. Apps like StreetComplete can help with that. Organic Maps also allows for some editing.
> GMaps is better for up-to-date commercial data like stores and their opening hours
Not in my country. They don't even keep track of national holidays, and very often keep listing establishments that closed down years ago.
Also, you might be standing in front of a restaurant and when asking google maps for nearby restaurants, if that one isn't blessed, you'll get directions to a 3km restaurant instead.
I would argue on the "navigation system" being better in gmaps, though. It used to be the navigation. Nowadays in many places it just shows bullshit. Two scooter ubereats drivers will go through a park, or a tractor through a literal field, and it will guide you through there like it's route 66. Not to mention google changes my route multiple times in a 3 hour drive, even without notifying me - I just avoid it at all cost, as it requires too much attention while driving.
So many places have better OSM-based coverage nowadays.
If you want to make OSM data better (like that business hours you mentioned) I find Street Complete [0] app fun and absolutely friction less way to do that.
I just wish Organic Maps would revert that new "feature" which prompts you for your location again and again multiple times per use, multiple times per day.[0]
Guys, if the device has location services disabled, your app should get the hint after I dismiss the prompt for the n!th time.
Interesting. Insofar as that's new, and they tripped a family sensor, that could well be related since we're BnL not supposed to track minors in any way.
Hanlon's razor applies well to situations where social power is relatively even.
Once power is sufficiently uneven, the stupidity of the powerful is no different than their malice, for with that power comes the greater responsibility to avoid doing harm with it.
It may be incompetence. Most of big tech today no longer understands why someone would build an app, a business, or a project for reasons other than seeking to extract money from the market. It is ironic, because most of the big tech companies are only as successful because they initially offered products with vision and purpose, rather than as means simply to extract revenue at the lowest cost.
They are not entirely wrong to view the market this way. Most apps and projects are built these days primarily as means to extract revenue from the market at a low cost. Sometimes they are so much this that we call them grifts, and there have been many in tech recently, and certainly on the Play Store. But there are still some companies with better values.
This is a long way to say that unless an app/project/business/website is evidently monetized, it can probably be assumed it's monetized by selling data or ads. Likely, this assumption was made by the reviewer here, there may even be guidelines about it.
To some degree, it would even benefit consumers to do such a reality check too before they buy products and subscribe to services — is this a visionary purpose-driven product, or one that seeks to extract money from me as its primary goal? If latter, how do they do it — in evident ways, or through selling data or ads/influencing? But one must be able to see nuance that not everything in the world is built for the capitalistic objective. Sometimes, cool things are built, art is made, and inventions are made to better the world.
Overall, it is a problem that they don't see this nuance which made Google successful in the first place. It is clear across their business, products and services. But I think it is not unexpected.
An app shot down because it doesn't grift in an evident way, under an assumption it grifts in a hidden way — it's not the most wrong decision in the world. It just does not demonstrate competence either.
The killer feature of Organic Maps is that you can download the maps for the entire world (yay OSM!) and not have to depend on signal or having a data plan.
Super important for intentional travel or nature (National parks often have no signal).
It's blazing fast — far snappier than other map apps I've used. And OSM data is better than Google's for hiking and biking.
The POI database isn't as detailed, and you wouldn't use it to find an espresso shop near you (...yet). But it's much better as a map app.
I encourage everyone to improve OSM and add the not found POIs not only to appear on Organic Maps , to make everyone to have a open database of geolocated information
Organic Maps is nice. On my phone (GrapheneOS Android), I use Organic Maps exclusively now, and haven't yet seen a need to install or use Google Maps on the phone.
(I still use the Google Maps Web site on my laptop, though, and like StreetView, satellite, and the texture-mapped aerial 3D imagery there.)
On iOS, I never use gmaps. Even if I tap a link accidentally and it opens their website, the address is broken half the time. Instead, I screen shot the address and paste it into another mapping app.
However, on android, if the google location services (the spyware half of gmaps) is not installed, then third party apps like uber and lyft, and real world infrastructure access, like ev charging and paying parking meters break.
That's heavily location and use dependant. Why would Google Maps be better than OpenStreetMap locally downloaded for off-line use into OsmAnd or OrganicMaps? In much of Europe Google Maps can't even compete with OpenStreetMap data as soon as you get to trails, paths, and minor local roads.
Besides, if you have a wireless signal, you can always just of the browser with Google Maps.
A real backup means having a paper map when hiking, and just following the local road signs when driving. When things really go wrong, Google Maps is just about the last thing to use.
I too like to have backups, I use OsmAnd in case Organic Maps goes wrong on me. But Google Maps also has its use for me, businesses around me are best represented on that, especially opening hours.
Google keeps removing "unused" developer accounts and "low quality" apps, but if I want to remove my apps from Play Store and close developer account, but it is impossible to remove apps when developer actually wants to do it, only "hide" them. And there's no button to delete developer account either. Double standards.
Yep, and to make things worse, even if your account is empty, if you had a (unpublished) paid app, you still have to go through the account verification stuff and provide your drivers license, etc to Google. If you don't want to have your public information posted, your options are to create a business account.
I’d be curious to see how that holds up in Europe or California.
At least one person must have sent them a “do not sell my personal information” or “right to be forgotten” request, and then declined to accept the new terms.
Readit News
— But that’s where the information is.
— Stop linking to Twitter/X, here’s a Fediverse link with more information.
— But it has fewer engagement.
— Stop linking to Twitter/X, here’s a Fediverse link with more information and more engagement.
— …
— OK, at some point, you need to recognize that you are the problem.
There is a reason most people in democratic countries don't like it, if there country has all the powers in one hand. At the same time it seams to be accepted for cooperation, as long as there are big enough.
It's a much more serious problem with iOS, where if Apple doesn't like your app, your service, your policies, or even your attitude, you just aren't getting your app out to your users, period. But we'll see where EU DMA takes this.
If you are not on the Play Store you lose the majority of your installations.
It's like a musician who is not on YouTube and not on Spotify.
Or a website that is not on Google Search.
Even without a monopoly, it should be illegal for the owner of a popular app store to promote their products like this.
They just need to get big fat fines when they do it. But of course, "it was an unfortunate mistake". Or we should just split them: Google Maps could be out of Google.
If I want this app I am now being sent to download an APK, I lose all the protection of the app store. If they cry wolf enough people will get used to doing that. Then when something comes along that is harmful and they want to yank it genuinely to protect users, people will still download the apk.
I'd argue that it would be safer than the Play Store version because F-Droid builds are at least reproducible, while it's not clear what checks are actually done by the Play Store before publishing an update. Most of what Play Protect claims to do could be from a simple malware signature check.
Dead Comment
In this case I'm not sure why Google would pull Organic Maps. That doesn't mean we need the government playing a role in defining ever company's terms of service, deciding when they're broken, and enforcing the punishment. How would that even scale?
Most countries have competition laws that also restrict what companies can do. That is the point here. We need need government intervention when the market lacks competition.
> In this case I'm not sure why Google would pull Organic Maps.
Exactly. Someone competent should decide whether that is an anti-competitive move or not. Noting that a "mistake" may be anti-competitive and may deserve a fine.
That someone is a government.
On the other hand, GMaps is better for up-to-date commercial data like stores and their opening hours. Its navigation system is better too. As much as I'd like to drop all Google services from my life, Maps is too useful to let go.
Not in my country. They don't even keep track of national holidays, and very often keep listing establishments that closed down years ago.
Also, you might be standing in front of a restaurant and when asking google maps for nearby restaurants, if that one isn't blessed, you'll get directions to a 3km restaurant instead.
So many places have better OSM-based coverage nowadays.
If you want to make OSM data better (like that business hours you mentioned) I find Street Complete [0] app fun and absolutely friction less way to do that.
[0] https://streetcomplete.app/?lang=en
Guys, if the device has location services disabled, your app should get the hint after I dismiss the prompt for the n!th time.
[0]: https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps/issues/1128
I switched from OSMAnd to Organic Maps a few years ago. Organic Maps is way faster, and I actually understand what all the buttons do.
It has some minor limitations, though: it cannot keep the GPS on when you switch to a different app, and it doesn't do track recording.
Never attribute to stupidity that which is adequately explained by malice.
Once power is sufficiently uneven, the stupidity of the powerful is no different than their malice, for with that power comes the greater responsibility to avoid doing harm with it.
They are not entirely wrong to view the market this way. Most apps and projects are built these days primarily as means to extract revenue from the market at a low cost. Sometimes they are so much this that we call them grifts, and there have been many in tech recently, and certainly on the Play Store. But there are still some companies with better values.
This is a long way to say that unless an app/project/business/website is evidently monetized, it can probably be assumed it's monetized by selling data or ads. Likely, this assumption was made by the reviewer here, there may even be guidelines about it.
To some degree, it would even benefit consumers to do such a reality check too before they buy products and subscribe to services — is this a visionary purpose-driven product, or one that seeks to extract money from me as its primary goal? If latter, how do they do it — in evident ways, or through selling data or ads/influencing? But one must be able to see nuance that not everything in the world is built for the capitalistic objective. Sometimes, cool things are built, art is made, and inventions are made to better the world.
Overall, it is a problem that they don't see this nuance which made Google successful in the first place. It is clear across their business, products and services. But I think it is not unexpected.
An app shot down because it doesn't grift in an evident way, under an assumption it grifts in a hidden way — it's not the most wrong decision in the world. It just does not demonstrate competence either.
https://www.slashgear.com/google-blames-rogue-contractors-fo...
Super important for intentional travel or nature (National parks often have no signal).
It's blazing fast — far snappier than other map apps I've used. And OSM data is better than Google's for hiking and biking.
The POI database isn't as detailed, and you wouldn't use it to find an espresso shop near you (...yet). But it's much better as a map app.
You can't download the map for the the entire world, or even an entire country.
Deleted Comment
About a gigabyte for the US, several gigs for the whole world.
(I still use the Google Maps Web site on my laptop, though, and like StreetView, satellite, and the texture-mapped aerial 3D imagery there.)
However, on android, if the google location services (the spyware half of gmaps) is not installed, then third party apps like uber and lyft, and real world infrastructure access, like ev charging and paying parking meters break.
I don't know if it does what you want or if it's for the reverse.
Even if you don’t open it, you should have it in case everything goes wrong.
I like waze, but sometimes it just fails to find me a certain place.
Besides, if you have a wireless signal, you can always just of the browser with Google Maps.
A real backup means having a paper map when hiking, and just following the local road signs when driving. When things really go wrong, Google Maps is just about the last thing to use.
Doesn't Waze belong to Google?
At least one person must have sent them a “do not sell my personal information” or “right to be forgotten” request, and then declined to accept the new terms.