I wanted to like it but it's mostly been a paperweight in the closet for two years now... My problem is ultimately that none of the smartphones I've used or tried (a few androids and a librem) offer a desktop/laptop experience that's any good. In theory I still like the concept, upgrade a phone every N years but don't have to get a new laptop form factor, but the execution from all sides (even if mostly on the phone sides) isn't there. A few months after being disappointed I got an older Lenovo laptop from ebay that was $100 cheaper and obviously a lot more capable, being a full computer I could throw Mint onto, and have a nicer screen/keyboard as well as a better experience remoting into my home workstation. (NoMachine mostly, though it can also do games via steam's remote streaming or Moonlight/Sunshine. Natively the laptop can run some games but its limits are roughly unreal engine 4 tier on low-to-medium settings.) Since my usage is probably 90-95% on my home desktop, I really just wanted a travel laptop, and it serves that job just fine.
More recently I've been impressed with my steam deck's desktop mode that's a fairly no-frills Linux distro, its use of flatpaks everywhere is kind of annoying though. When it's good enough to make a game for steam deck on the steam deck with e.g. godot and blender, it's good enough for a lot of other things. I've been chucking it in with my travel laptop for trips, but one of these times I'm going to have to try just taking it alone with just a mouse and keyboard to complement.
It's a crying shame that Apple don't offer a desktop mode on iPhones. The chips are more than powerful enough to give a no-compromises experience (for most use casual use cases at least), the disks are large enough to store 2 OSs, and they have a full desktop OS sitting around ready for use.
It'd make it a lot harder to sell macs, but it would be an absolutely killer device.
People have been begging for a real desktop mode on the iPad forever, if Apple won't even do it for a device which uses the same processor as their laptops and even has an official laptop-style keyboard accessory then they're certainly not going to do it for the iPhone.
Apple will never cannibalize themselves like this. There isn't event multi user support on iPad which would be something trivial to do and everyone know ipad is a family device yet here we are.
Samsung Dex is incredible, I use it with a lapdock the way I would a real laptop. Multiple windows on screen, Kb shortcuts to navigate, plus drag and drop functionality with a mouse that is unheard of in regular Android.
Has one of those Androids been capable of running Samsung Dex? I've used it on my tablet (without an external screen) with a USB dongle and I found it surprisingly competent for a lot of desktop work, if I weren't for the lack of RAM in my device.
Yes, though my current phone is a red magic 8 pro, so no DeX (or other things, good and bad). I wasn't really impressed like another comment, but admittedly I didn't spend too much time trying it since it wasn't my phone that had DeX. Though I still think I got enough data. On android, the biggest issue for me is probably the android apps themselves, what's effectively a glorified launcher that's still not quite there is a side issue. I know some people have managed to root their phones and get some sort of real linux on there (emulated?) but the actual experiences when you dig into it don't sound that great (i.e. very bad performance).
Yeah, I'm glad some people are able to live the dream. Not for me though, the issues being terribly obsolete hardware leading to poor performance and also terrible feature parity on phone-side table stakes. I should boot and fully update my librem to see how things have progressed, it's been another paperweight in the closet. Honestly while I could rant about it, this thread's not really the place, and I'm actually not all that disappointed anyway because from the time when I pre-ordered it I convinced myself to treat it more like a donation to the cause and have zero expectations for anything personally useful to come out of it.
I've seen these before and I always loved the idea of "convergence" even though its never been successful. I remember in at least 2013 when the Ubuntu Edge had a convergence feature that would blow your phone up into a (very slow) desktop PC over DisplayPort that you would then control via the phone touch screen [1].
I suspect the reason that mobile convergence hasn't been successful is that people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood you are in. My phone is for social stuff, my tablet is for entertainment stuff and my laptop is for work stuff. The thought of cramming all of those head-spaces into one device feels stressful, like putting all my eggs into one basket. I'm always very happy when I hear about updates to DeX or new convergence docks though
A scooter, motorcycle, car, and delivery van all serve different purposes, though there is a little crossover between each stage.
The same is true about these devices: yes, in a pinch you can grab that document and search for something but really when editing it you want not just a keyboard and larger display, but a bit more horsepower and different apps.
So I use to think a fancy dock like this would be good, but their continued failure has taught me a lot.
A basic phone blows away the early computers. 40mhz one core cpus (spark, mips, 80486...) used to do a lot of work and be fast. What has changed is bloat.
Sometimes I still find the need to write a lot on a phone and it's thumb typing in a touch mobile device that frustrates me the most. I believe a good add-on keyboard, preferably just as portable as the phone, would have more use cases than a hollow laptop that can be just as big (and similarly less convenient) as a normal laptop.
We need different types of vehicles for all those things because they cover use cases with different storage capacity and performance requirements. This seems less true for cellphones now.
> I suspect the reason that mobile convergence hasn't been successful is that people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood you are in. My phone is for social stuff, my tablet is for entertainment stuff and my laptop is for work stuff.
Nah, I used to think the same thing about desktop vs laptop but turns out once laptops got good enough to be a true desktop replacement it was much better to just have one device. Phones aren't there yet, even if the raw processor speed numbers suggest they should be.
> people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood
Agree this is a big factor, but with peripherals to extend your smartphone into a laptop you do still have to own multiple “devices” (discrete units of physical hardware). If you’re already gonna have to lug around a dongle/adapter and one or more pieces of hardware (mouse, keyboard, screen) to get the laptop experience, you might as well just lug around an entire laptop.
Also, “cloud” software (not just things like Google docs, but the widespread use of web applications allowing you to log in to some app from anywhere) has solved a lot of the biggest problems in this space. You can easily access all the important things on your phone from a laptop, unless you go out of your way to not upload something somewhere. So being able to convert a smartphone into a laptop is mostly about saving money on hardware (which may not be that much. Do you pay $200 for peripherals to get an underpowered laptop powered by a phone, or a mid-like laptop?) or addressing a very niche UX need.
The last generation of Windows Phone had convergence that provided a version of this. Allowed you to run UWP apps on a Windows desktop. But like many things in the Windows phone universe, it was simultaneously 10 years ahead and 10 years behind.
I see a an increasing number of people around me using phone only for stuff they absolutely need to carry around – payment/banking, loyalty cards, 2FA, maps. Maybe also some pure messaging app, some puzzle game, but that's it. No any social media, news, work etc.
Now that you mention it, that's a good way to think about it.
Of all the things on my phone, the only thing I feel like I absolutely can't live without (in my phone) is my OneBusAway app that tells me when my next bus is coming.
For me, it’s that I don’t have a monitor on hand to plug my phone into. And if I’m going to plan to bring a monitor, shit, I’ll just bring my laptop anyway.
Convergence should work fine from modern desktop Linux: you should be able to attach a tiny, phone-sized screen to any SBC or mini-PC and run a mobile-focused experience (such as Phosh or Gnome-Mobile) and it should just work. Attach a bigger external monitor and apps should just scale up seamlessly. This will get quite interesting with the newer device form factor of handheld consoles running x86-64 hardware, since they too have a roughly phone-sized screen that usually supports touch input, as well as analog sticks that might be readily usable for pointer movement or scrolling, and lots of physical buttons that might be usable for gestures or chorded input.
> Convergence should work fine from modern desktop Linux: you should be able to attach a tiny, phone-sized screen to any SBC or mini-PC and run a mobile-focused experience (such as Phosh or Gnome-Mobile) and it should just work. Attach a bigger external monitor and apps should just scale up seamlessly.
My Pinephone Pro runs Plasma Mobile and yeah you can just plug it in to a USB-C dock with HDMI out and a mouse+keyboard plugged in and it scales up into a slightly odd desktop:)
There was a meme a while back - my most millennial trait is that big purchases must happen on a big screen”.
My brother is a zoomer and the only computing device in his house is his mobile phone and work laptop. He does absolutely everything on his phone. I think we’re moving away from separated devices, honestly
I feel like it highly depends on what people are doing with a device: if there're only a consumer (of digital content or physical product), only owning and using a smartphone is fine. However for creating things (writing a PhD thesis, making a game, editing horizontal video) a PC is still required.
It wouldn't be hard to trigger DEX/desktop enviroment to load a different profile. I feel like most hardware companies don't want to eat away at different segments.
(Along those lines, some phones have a "second" or "secret" profile/mode that is accessible through a different PIN code at the lockscreen, for example ...)
Not really. Let's look at Bell's Law from 1972 to understand this:
"Roughly every decade a new, lower priced computer class forms based on a new programming platform, network, and interface resulting in new usage and a new industry."
So we can say, generally, mainframes, minicomputers, workstations, microcomputers, laptops, smart phones, and now wearables (watches, rings, wallets, bracelets, glasses, etc)
Next we'll have something I'll call the Mckenzie corollary (that's me I guess):
"Roughly a decade or two after introduction, the lower price computer class will subsume the upper price computing class."
So the minicomputers took on mainframe tasks.
The workstations took on the minicomputer tasks.
The microcomputers took on the workstation tasks.
Laptops took on the micros. All this happened with a significant lag time.
And now, the smartphones are vying for the laptops.
These are superstructural transformations and take years because a bunch of new things need to be invented, developed, mastered and widely deployed for it to happen.
We are roughly in the wearables and phones-become-laptops epoch.
Let's look at The Poverty of Historicism from 1944 to understand why you can't predict societal change with laws.
"[The evolution of] human society, is a unique historical process ... Its description, however, is not a law, but only a singular historical statement."
Super book was another example of these type of devices which never got to market. Had the chance to play with the foldable devices and thought they are actually pretty great.
I think these type of formats are decent for travelers.
I've got a Samsung Android phone that I tried with a DisplayLink dock for browsing. It was able to use the Ethernet OOTB, but browsing was PAINFUL. The responsiveness is/was not there.
I always liked the idea that rather than your phone being the powerhouse for a laptop or desktop environment that it instead be a receptacle for data.
If only there were a standardized protocol enabling browsers (could be any smart terminal protocol, but browsers exist now, and would mostly work) to securely connect to nearby devices, maybe even require a physical connection if you want extra safety.
Then instead of a specific dock you could use just about any capable laptop or desktop as an environment.
I don't think it can be done at the moment without an on-internet intermediary. A local discovery and connection system that the terminal(browser) could be aware of. Maybe this could be shoehorned into existing systems like Bluetooth.
You could get an absurd usb connection working if the phone appeared as both a file store as well as a keyboard that types in the commands to launch itself. I see no potential pitfalls with that approach.
avahi/bonjour for discovery, vnc served up over http for UI. Intel proposed a box with Ethernet over USB for this a long time ago but it never caught on.
Meh, it works fine for me. You can also use work profile (island app) to segment your phone a bit further.
I really love DeX and I just spent a whole week working with it as my primary computing device. I don't have a mobile dock though. The reason being that they're not an awful lot cheaper or lighter than a real laptop so what's the point.
* counts 4 in the living room, about 10 servers in the lab, probably 20 computers in total in my single person home not including raspberry pis, mobiles or tablets :)
Convergence happened already, I'm logged into the same apps from any device and have access to mostly the same files and functionality through the cloud.
I've had a NexDock for about 7 years or so. Definitely a nice tool to have. I don't really have a normal laptop besides my work laptop anymore. I primarily just use my NexDock with either my phone or my Steam Deck. I've also used the dock with Raspberry Pis in the past.
The older model that I have has a pretty terrible trackpad, does not have a touch screen, and does not fold back (I normally use my ergonomic keyboard with it). I think these are all resolved in newer models though.
I have one of the originals too, I only use it in an emergency (e.g. maintaining a Raspberry Pi) because the trackpad is so awful - I can't type on it because the cursor jumps all over the place.
That basically shattered my dream of leaving my work laptop at home on short business trips. Well, that and it weighs as much as a laptop anyway so there wasn't actually a benefit.
I've just been using a small folding bluetooth keyboard and a mini-bluetooth mouse. Both are easy to carry around and fit in pockets. I find the steam deck's screen large enough to use on its own, although sometimes I plug it into an external monitor over HDMI.
I use an overlay of /usr to add things to make the steam deck more useful.
Not op, I have the previous model with the keyboard, and it works well but a bit janky: the screen and the keyboard are pretty good, the combination of touch screen e touchpad make it usable without a mouse for most workload.
I use it for anything, gaming, web surfing, developing and sometimes even work (it does raise a few eyebrows when I take it out of the bag)
The big problem is the connection between nextdock and steamdeck: if I connect it directly via single usb-c cable I lose the ability to charge the steamdeck (the nextdock does not supply enough energy for keeping the steamdeck charged) and I also lose a lot of io (next dock as only one fullsize usb 3.0 port) so instead I use the steam-deck-dock and connect it to the nextdock with two cable (hdmi e usb) so that I can keep the steamdeck fully charged.
I would love to find an usb-c cable splitter so that I can have a device simultaneously connected to an usb-c pd charger and a second connection only for usb data, there are some but none of them support usb alt mode necessary to use external screen.
I can obviously only use it with ample desk space for both the dock and the Deck, but for my use case (usually visiting family or my local maker space) desk space is not an issue. As for the experience of using it, it just feels like it's a reasonably spec'd gaming laptop when I use it with the Deck.
Huh. It's a lot cheaper than I expected it to be. Only $300.
Might be kinda useful if the pendulum swings back towards actually storing all your data on your own devices instead of in the clown. And if anyone starts writing actual tools for Desktop Android.
That's the best typo ever, I had an extension for chrome many years ago that allowed to replace "cloud" with a different word for funsies because it was used everywhere, might ressurect it using clown.
PS. Actually, it might be a good word for "self hosted cloud" setups, where you "[c]loud [own] (as in, 'ownership')" your data and infra is under user control ...
I have 7" touch screen waiting me to attach a pi4 to make a proper portable Linux device I can travel with. Laptops too big and the GPD tiny ones too expensive for me. I can't use anything smaller than 7" and don't want bigger than 10" for convenience.
Less than $200 can have "ideal" setup.
If your criteria of "not locked down" is being able to run a full-ass IDE on your phone, then maybe.
But if using a Web-IDE via a browser[0] is enough for you, we're already there. You do need to adjust how you work, and that's a huge sticking point for some people.
I got one of the lapdocks for the Atrix a few years after the Atrix because you could hook it up to a Raspberry Pi and it'd work. Broke the HDMI port at some point though, mini HDMI is just too fragile.
I understand the limitations resulting from differences in form factor between different smartphone models that make the idea impractical, but it's too bad these docks aren't designed for the phone to slot into them, Duo Dock[0] style. That'd be super slick.
I don't see why it's impractical. Just have a soft spring loaded clamp, like universal car phone mounts. Maybe it would be hard to line up the USBC port?
I love the idea of lapdocks. I've just never found one that has a good keyboard, trackpad, and screen, at the same time. There are those with good keyboards, and those with good screens, but not both, and never a good trackpad. (I guess I've been spoiled by using Apple Force Touch trackpads for years.)
My use case is actually accessing my desktop from bed. I ended up using something called an "overbed table" (with tilt adjust!) with a monitor arm on it. Monitor goes on the arm, peripherals go on the table. That way, I can mix and match into something I like.
But it's not really the same as a real lapdock, because it depends on the table. I can't easily move it around the room or anything. I can't use it in my lap, only on the table that floats above me. (I prefer the table in most cases, but the lap is sometimes useful.)
It'd be nice if I could easily move it between my bed and a real desk, for example. If on the table there were a lapdock I could simply pick it up, but with separate peripherals I cannot.
Readit News
More recently I've been impressed with my steam deck's desktop mode that's a fairly no-frills Linux distro, its use of flatpaks everywhere is kind of annoying though. When it's good enough to make a game for steam deck on the steam deck with e.g. godot and blender, it's good enough for a lot of other things. I've been chucking it in with my travel laptop for trips, but one of these times I'm going to have to try just taking it alone with just a mouse and keyboard to complement.
It'd make it a lot harder to sell macs, but it would be an absolutely killer device.
Macbook pro for coding and designing in figma and light gaming, web browsing
iPad mini for reading, travelling, sketching with apple pencil.
iPhone for doing phone things.
Sure I buy 3 devices (4 if you count apple watch) but they last several years and have decent resale value.
- Tim Cook probably.
I suspect the reason that mobile convergence hasn't been successful is that people like owning multiple devices that fit the mood you are in. My phone is for social stuff, my tablet is for entertainment stuff and my laptop is for work stuff. The thought of cramming all of those head-spaces into one device feels stressful, like putting all my eggs into one basket. I'm always very happy when I hear about updates to DeX or new convergence docks though
1:https://youtu.be/bk9-v8Sl4yU
The same is true about these devices: yes, in a pinch you can grab that document and search for something but really when editing it you want not just a keyboard and larger display, but a bit more horsepower and different apps.
So I use to think a fancy dock like this would be good, but their continued failure has taught me a lot.
Nah, I used to think the same thing about desktop vs laptop but turns out once laptops got good enough to be a true desktop replacement it was much better to just have one device. Phones aren't there yet, even if the raw processor speed numbers suggest they should be.
Agree this is a big factor, but with peripherals to extend your smartphone into a laptop you do still have to own multiple “devices” (discrete units of physical hardware). If you’re already gonna have to lug around a dongle/adapter and one or more pieces of hardware (mouse, keyboard, screen) to get the laptop experience, you might as well just lug around an entire laptop.
Also, “cloud” software (not just things like Google docs, but the widespread use of web applications allowing you to log in to some app from anywhere) has solved a lot of the biggest problems in this space. You can easily access all the important things on your phone from a laptop, unless you go out of your way to not upload something somewhere. So being able to convert a smartphone into a laptop is mostly about saving money on hardware (which may not be that much. Do you pay $200 for peripherals to get an underpowered laptop powered by a phone, or a mid-like laptop?) or addressing a very niche UX need.
I miss the thing all the time.
This is a great way to put it. "Recipes" were ahead of their time, but half-baked ...
Of all the things on my phone, the only thing I feel like I absolutely can't live without (in my phone) is my OneBusAway app that tells me when my next bus is coming.
Also: /shameless-plug-for-free-and-awesome-app :)
Modern Motorola phones have a similar feature.
VNC has been around for a long time.
It just seems like something people don't want to use. I'm not sure why, though?
My Pinephone Pro runs Plasma Mobile and yeah you can just plug it in to a USB-C dock with HDMI out and a mouse+keyboard plugged in and it scales up into a slightly odd desktop:)
My brother is a zoomer and the only computing device in his house is his mobile phone and work laptop. He does absolutely everything on his phone. I think we’re moving away from separated devices, honestly
"Roughly every decade a new, lower priced computer class forms based on a new programming platform, network, and interface resulting in new usage and a new industry."
So we can say, generally, mainframes, minicomputers, workstations, microcomputers, laptops, smart phones, and now wearables (watches, rings, wallets, bracelets, glasses, etc)
Next we'll have something I'll call the Mckenzie corollary (that's me I guess):
"Roughly a decade or two after introduction, the lower price computer class will subsume the upper price computing class."
So the minicomputers took on mainframe tasks. The workstations took on the minicomputer tasks. The microcomputers took on the workstation tasks. Laptops took on the micros. All this happened with a significant lag time.
And now, the smartphones are vying for the laptops.
These are superstructural transformations and take years because a bunch of new things need to be invented, developed, mastered and widely deployed for it to happen.
We are roughly in the wearables and phones-become-laptops epoch.
"[The evolution of] human society, is a unique historical process ... Its description, however, is not a law, but only a singular historical statement."
(And, don't forget, "mass adopted" ...)
I think these type of formats are decent for travelers.
If only there were a standardized protocol enabling browsers (could be any smart terminal protocol, but browsers exist now, and would mostly work) to securely connect to nearby devices, maybe even require a physical connection if you want extra safety.
Then instead of a specific dock you could use just about any capable laptop or desktop as an environment.
I don't think it can be done at the moment without an on-internet intermediary. A local discovery and connection system that the terminal(browser) could be aware of. Maybe this could be shoehorned into existing systems like Bluetooth.
You could get an absurd usb connection working if the phone appeared as both a file store as well as a keyboard that types in the commands to launch itself. I see no potential pitfalls with that approach.
I really love DeX and I just spent a whole week working with it as my primary computing device. I don't have a mobile dock though. The reason being that they're not an awful lot cheaper or lighter than a real laptop so what's the point.
True. Probably one of the biggest obstacles to adoption. Their price point pretty much overlaps with an entry-level laptop.-
Sounds reasonable.-
PS. As a counterpoint to that, many will I am sure remember how one PC *was* everything and one did everything on it. One per household, even ...
* counts 4 in the living room, about 10 servers in the lab, probably 20 computers in total in my single person home not including raspberry pis, mobiles or tablets :)
The older model that I have has a pretty terrible trackpad, does not have a touch screen, and does not fold back (I normally use my ergonomic keyboard with it). I think these are all resolved in newer models though.
That basically shattered my dream of leaving my work laptop at home on short business trips. Well, that and it weighs as much as a laptop anyway so there wasn't actually a benefit.
I use it for anything, gaming, web surfing, developing and sometimes even work (it does raise a few eyebrows when I take it out of the bag)
The big problem is the connection between nextdock and steamdeck: if I connect it directly via single usb-c cable I lose the ability to charge the steamdeck (the nextdock does not supply enough energy for keeping the steamdeck charged) and I also lose a lot of io (next dock as only one fullsize usb 3.0 port) so instead I use the steam-deck-dock and connect it to the nextdock with two cable (hdmi e usb) so that I can keep the steamdeck fully charged.
I would love to find an usb-c cable splitter so that I can have a device simultaneously connected to an usb-c pd charger and a second connection only for usb data, there are some but none of them support usb alt mode necessary to use external screen.
Indeed. What a combo ...
Might be kinda useful if the pendulum swings back towards actually storing all your data on your own devices instead of in the clown. And if anyone starts writing actual tools for Desktop Android.
That's the best typo ever, I had an extension for chrome many years ago that allowed to replace "cloud" with a different word for funsies because it was used everywhere, might ressurect it using clown.
PS. Actually, it might be a good word for "self hosted cloud" setups, where you "[c]loud [own] (as in, 'ownership')" your data and infra is under user control ...
(I was doing "portable" using a then-huge 8'' 'generic android phablet' with a foldable Bluetooth keyboard a few years back ...)
You can easily sync your media to a server you own (Immich or NextCloud), Notes can live in Obsidian, which syncs to a place you control etc.
No matter how much RAM, storage, or CPU power it has, a smartphone is ultimately still a locked-down media consumption device.
But if using a Web-IDE via a browser[0] is enough for you, we're already there. You do need to adjust how you work, and that's a huge sticking point for some people.
[0] https://vscode.dev
...and be constantly tied to the clown? No thank you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_Atrix_4G#Accessories
Never bought but seemed interesting at the time.
Still, a great device to have around a pile of rPi's.
Although, I do prefer to just use my external LCD monitor .. far less likely to destroy the cables.
Nice phone.-
[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook_Duo#Docking_stations
My use case is actually accessing my desktop from bed. I ended up using something called an "overbed table" (with tilt adjust!) with a monitor arm on it. Monitor goes on the arm, peripherals go on the table. That way, I can mix and match into something I like.
But it's not really the same as a real lapdock, because it depends on the table. I can't easily move it around the room or anything. I can't use it in my lap, only on the table that floats above me. (I prefer the table in most cases, but the lap is sometimes useful.)
It'd be nice if I could easily move it between my bed and a real desk, for example. If on the table there were a lapdock I could simply pick it up, but with separate peripherals I cannot.