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Posted by u/JSR_FDED a year ago
Ask HN: Is iCloud a viable alternative to Dropbox? Any other alternatives?
Short question: Currently I’m a Dropbox user on Mac, is iCloud a viable alternative? If not, who do you have a good experience with?

I’ve been a happy Dropbox user for 10+ years, it’s rock-solid syncing of a local directory with my other devices and the cloud has never let me down.

However, I’m starting to feel uneasy about staying with them. In the last years they’ve tried to cram more and more functionality I don’t care about (functions not related to syncing files) into the product, their menu-bar app has become a monster, and I’m tired of the up-sell nudges.

Apple is also transitioning all the cloud filesystem companies (like Dropbox, Google Drive, MS One Drive, etc) to use the MacOS File Provider API - probably a good thing to ensure there is a consistent experience for users. But that also makes me think they’re all going to perform exactly the same. I could be wrong of course.

Considering all that I want is for a directory tree to be mirrored between the cloud and my devices, are there any alternatives you’d recommend? Have you had good/bad experiences with iCloud say in the last 2 years?

mtts · a year ago
Once a year I do some tests to see if the wife and I, with only our grocery list shared between us, can switch. And once a year I find out the answer is “no - and it isn’t any better than last year”.

iCloud is extremely slow. Updates in files can take 10 minutes or more to propagate, especially if two or more people have been editing them. If you’re the only one editing a file, on multiple devices, it’s still slow but much less so.

It also tries to be clever about what it syncs and when, with no options (that I’m aware of) to force it to simply fetch local copies of everything. This makes it unusable for files that you want to access in a terminal as the terminal is, for some reason, not part of the clever sync on demand system.

However, if you want to get fancy with sharing stuff with applications on iOS, such as, for example, an Obsidian file directory or some other set of markdown files to view and edit on the go, you’re pretty much forced to do it in iCloud as the Dropbox file provider on iOS is extremely unreliable and prone to locking up, even if you’re the only one editing the files. For this use case you’re pretty much condemned to iCloud.

LeoPanthera · a year ago
> with no options (that I’m aware of) to force it to simply fetch local copies of everything

System Settings > Apple ID > iCloud > Optimize Mac Storage = Off

You need enough disk space to store everything in your iCloud storage or this will fail.

sgt · a year ago
Might be something wrong on your side. Reason is that I've used iCloud for more than a decade. At first it was a bit rough, but it's been rock stable the last 5-6 years. I also use it for grocery lists between my wife and I.

And we're in South Africa, so not even as close to iCloud's main servers as you are (presumably).

mtts · a year ago
Do you only update your grocery lists at home or in places with good WiFi? Because I can reliably cause iCloud to choke if network coverage is less than excellent (a plausible use case for grocery lists, I’d imagine). Dropbox, on the other hand, doesn’t bat an eye.
gorpigo · a year ago
As far as I know Apple just uses AWS for hosting. Not sure what regions but it’s likely you’re connecting to on in Cape Town or somewhere in Europe
ksec · a year ago
>and it isn’t any better than last year”.

This. I think Apple gets the most benefits of doubt when things dont work. And for 99% of the time it works fine. It is that 1%, when it happens, how long would it be fixed, is it actually better than M$ or Google questions pops up.

Basically just stay away from iCloud. You get far less headache.

wil421 · a year ago
My wife and I do the same thing and there definitely is not a 10 min delay.
ThePowerOfFuet · a year ago
You should seriously try Anylist — it's been am amazing experience thus far.
sogen · a year ago
> iCloud is extremely slow

When it works.

Sometimes it won't even sync files between two devices in the same room, and just show an infinite progress bar. And I'm using the latest OS versions in all devices.

BoorishBears · a year ago
iCloud is unreliable, Dropbox is reliable, but sometimes the connectors it uses are unreliable.

Unfortunately there's no perfect solution yet across all platforms

bobbylarrybobby · a year ago
fyi, there is an obsidian plugin called “remotely save” that can sync with Dropbox. (It uses the plain old Dropbox API and therefore requires a separate Dropbox login from the Dropbox app on your phone.)
bouncing · a year ago
I switched from Google Drive to iCloud in 2021. I haven’t looked back, but also, my use is neither heavy nor demanding. I just keep my documents in iCloud and otherwise use git for my heavy lifting professionally.

iCloud is opaque. It tells you if some file is syncing, or if it’s only in the cloud, but that’s really about it. There’s almost no level of control. If you want a revision history, that’s what Time Machine is for. Collaborate editing, API that apps to integrate into with, previewing without downloading, etc? Those are all not really options with iCloud.

But so far, it hasn’t lost any of my data and it is probably the most approachable option with an end-to-end encryption option (which I enable). Searching works well and even finds text in images and documents.

If you just need the basics and you’re all-in on Apple products, iCloud is great.

uuddlrlrbaba · a year ago
And if you're not all-in I've found that using syncthing to share a subset of the icloud drive with linux hosts works fine
danpalmer · a year ago
Yeah this is my opinion too. I had a mix of Drive and Dropbox (still have docs on drive), but moved everything to iCloud because I was already paying for backups for my phone.

It's not perfect, it's very opaque, but for a backup of important documents it's good. Lots of my apps also sync with iCloud anyway so I wouldn't be avoiding it, and get some extra storage for them I think, not that I need it.

If I was collaborating in any way at all I'd just be all in on Google Workspace with drive. My last company used it and it was excellent. Disclaimer, I now work at Google where we also obviously use it for everything, and it's also great here, but while I have a bias, I do think it's the best option for collaboration.

Someone · a year ago
> for a backup of important documents it's good

You likely know, but iCloud is not a full backup; it’s a synchronization mechanism. That helps in cases of device loss, but not in all scenarios where a backup helps.

If you have a backup, you can restore past versions of files that you accidentally modified or deleted. iCloud will happily copy such changes and deletions to the iCloud copy of your data and to other devices linked to that copy, likely before you even notice you want to go back to an older version.

To get ‘real’ backups, Apple has Time Machine.

Dropbox, depending on your plan, allows you to restore older versions of files for 30, 180, or 365 days (https://help.dropbox.com/delete-restore/recover-older-versio...)

MacOS has a ‘Versions’ feature that in theory is similar (https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/mac-help/mh40710/mac), but isn’t supported by all applications.

matwood · a year ago
Matches my current experience. For my personal file sharing between devices/partner, iCloud works fine and is seamless. Anything having to do with document sharing/collaboration, Google Workspace has worked fine.

My only strong opinion in this space is to avoid anything OneDrive/Sharepoint related if you want to collaborate.

ngrilly · a year ago
Search works with end-to-end encryption enabled? Even for files not available locally?
bouncing · a year ago
Again, iCloud is super-opaque, so it's hard to know exactly what's going on.

As far as I can tell, when you add a file to an iCloud folder, it indexes it locally, uploads it, and the index sticks around even after the file is evicted from local storage.

So for example, right now I searched for an address I haven't used in 10+ years. On my computer, Spotlight immediately found a PDF file that wasn't stored locally. However, I added that file from my computer, so it's in the index (presumably). If I do the same search from my phone, nothing is found, though searching the filename itself still works.

It would be nice if the index data itself were transmitted between devices, but, you take what you can get and it's pretty impressive as it is.

hectormalot · a year ago
Not exactly the same feature set, but I’ve replaced Dropbox with Syncthing (open source) and it has been very reliable for my intended use (sync files across my devices).

I also run it on my home server for a central sync point. Don’t use it much on mobile, but works well enough if I do need a file. Not a good solution for sharing with others though.

donatj · a year ago
I spent a couple days with Syncthing. The UX and general process of setup / adding devices is one of the most inscrutable things I’ve ever done. I have been using computers since the early 90s, and I have not had an experience like that since maybe setting up networking in the early nineties with no internet to help.

It’s open source, and it purports to sync resource forks which is very important to me - but they should really sit down and figure out how to make the process easier for newcomers.

I ended up back on Dropbox which also syncs resource forks. One of the few services that does.

skydhash · a year ago
The dialog is complex but the documentation is informative and I think all the options are important. You can setup default values in the settings section. It's more an expert tool like ffmpeg. Every folder synchronization endpoint configuration is different especially as it's distributed instead of the default clients/server.
brokenmachine · a year ago
I agree the UX for adding devices is not very intuitive, but once it's set up it works great.

Also it has many options for syncing, which is something I like so I can set it up in any way I like.

Joeri · a year ago
I also am a happy syncthing user.

I have one “server” that contains all my synced folders, is always online and gets backed up to the cloud. Every other device syncs a subset of those folders using syncthing. It is fast and reliable. I had to set up some stignore files to exclude platform-specific files like node_modules, but other than that it has been smooth sailing.

irongeek · a year ago
Syncthing for the win. Has worked fantastic for me for many years across just about an OS you want to use.
JanisErdmanis · a year ago
I have looked into Syncthing and I found that their E2E setup is too daunting. In contrast in Resilio Sync one can share read/write key and be settled with it easally. If security is of concern one simply puts an expiration time on the key.
c0wb0yc0d3r · a year ago
> I have looked into Syncthing and I found that their E2E setup is too daunting.

Are you referring to untrusted devices? That is different than e2e encryption. Synching is e2e encrypted by default. Synching relays are only used when a direct connection with a peer is not possible. When a relay is used the data is encrypted. The relay cannot read it.

https://docs.syncthing.net/users/relaying.html#security

Nextgrid · a year ago
Haven't tried Dropbox, but stay the hell away from iCloud Drive. It's about the same reliability as curlftpfs[1] but with the bonus feature that it's opaque and you have no idea what it's doing, whether it's failing, and why it's failing.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224

skydhash · a year ago
General reminder that iCloud is a syncing service (passable), not a backup service. So do your 3-2-1 religiously and everything is ok. I only store things that I may need on 2 or more devices and active projects, but I still backup everything to other drives.
sumuyuda · a year ago
Having worked with the file provider API, it’s not ideal. It will automatically prune downloaded files and you have no control over it. One Drive had to do a hack of storing the files you want to always keep in a different location and then have the file provider extension copy from that location rather than the cloud.

I switched from iCloud to Nextcloud, but Nextcloud will also be moving to a file provider extension, not for sure how it will work with their current sync client.

Ultimately I left macOS and don’t have any problems on Linux with Nextcloud.

opan · a year ago
I'll add to the pile of people suggesting syncthing. Works great across several PCs and phones for me. Mostly GNU/Linux and Android, a Windows machine or two, and I think I put it on one Mac that I don't use often. I also have it on my Steam Deck.

As some others also mentioned, syncing is not a true backup and you'll still want to make periodic copies to another drive/machine, probably at least one copy off-site. I just use rsync to a physical server at another location I have access to, but seems like many are recommending rclone for use with cloud storage.

furyofantares · a year ago
I keep ALL of my data in Dropbox and basically treat all of my computers as one single computer.

I'm a little surprised how well this works given two things:

1) I use both macOS and Windows - I was especially worried about projects that take dependencies from package managers but haven't run into any conflicts here

2) I keep almost everything in local git repos inside dropbox. I was really worried I'd end up with fucked up repos if I end up working on one computer when it hasn't fully sync'd yet from the other one, but again, haven't run into any issues here

I really love this setup. It works amazingly well for me. But I'm also quite concerned that in the last years Dropbox keeps trying to get me to keep files in the cloud and not sync'd locally, and Apple now wants to push Dropbox to a new model which also prioritizes this. But worse, it's not backwards compatible, there's some types of file which will no longer sync and I don't actually know if I have any of them. And no LAN sync, which I suspect is part of why I've had no conflict issues with my setup.

Most of the incompatibilities/changed behavior seem like edge cases but the list is long and very scary for someone so dependent on dropbox: https://help.dropbox.com/installs/macos-support-for-expected...

So I guess I too am in the market for a dead simple "just do an amazing job of keeping this filesystem the same across devices" product.

notemaker · a year ago
It seems to be extremely rare, but do bear in mind that if Apple bans your account (Apple Id) you will lose access to your icloud files irrevocably.

See my previous posts on the matter for more info.

adityamwagh · a year ago
That’s true for all providers isn’t it? Unless you have your own server setup.
notemaker · a year ago
True, but Apple specifically in my case was abhorrently indifferent to the consequences and their support structure is entirely unable to help you. If you have a dedicated storage provider, you lose their single service only. With Apple, you lose everything you have attached to your account which carries a much higher risk.

See https://skogsbrus.xyz/dont-put-all-your-apples-in-one-basket... for more info.