While scanning the comments, I observe one recurring argument against the step of legalizing weed: (excessive) use can and will have catastrophic psychological consequences on some of the consumers.
I totally agree. It is, however a flawed argument in the context of legalization. One of the arguments for the legalization by the health ministry is that prohibition has been ineffective, factually not avoiding or even reducing (excess) weed consumption (among minors). Prohibition has criminalized many people for their consumption (via necessary circumstances such as possession), at the same time often denying help to those consumers who needed it.
The goals of drug policy should be:
- help consumers to avoid or treat harmful consumption, especially minors
- do not criminalize adult citizens who do no harm to others
Neither of these goals have been achieved by prohibition. Legalization is not going to help on the first point either, but might make it easier.
In the context of the second point: prohibition has been a nasty vehicle for arbitrary, often racist policing. Given that prohibition is not realistically possible in full consequence, the inherent tools of criminalizing alleged drug users are often applied to specific groups only, often for racist motives. Throwing around cocaine at the company party of your startup will hardly be punished, whereas the immigrant neighbor ends up in jail for smoking a joint.
There's a middle ground between legalization and prohibition - consumption is legal / decriminalized, while sale is illegal. Some European countries follow this model for weed and other drugs.
It's a middle ground similar to the handling of pornography (often legal) and prostitution (often illegal) and it doesn't make much sense. Usually production, trafficking, and sale are also considered illegal, because to only make illegal the latter would make it more much difficult to prosecute those involved in sales and distribution. Some users need more than others, and some users produce their own supplies. Neither should be illegal, but both often are.
Either it's okay for adults to consent to activities that don't harm others or its not. People should have the right to choose what to do with their bodies, and the legal system should have to ability to disincentivize antisocial behavior in ways that are productive i.e. that actually reduce it.
The antisocial behavior is not people selling/smoking a joint or having/selling consensual sex -- and while it might be associated with them, the government should be tackling those other, actual problems instead.
Based on your argument, the reason for legalization of weed is that the current police system has totally failed and decided the only way forward is to give up policing it? That would make this move seem more of a failure than a victory…
Prohibition works. It works very well. It's just that you can't have half-working prohibition, which is what a lot of Western countries want to subscribe to when it comes to drugs that really leave a stain on society.
Alcohol prohibition worked perfectly in the US, except that hard liquor usage skyrocketed for some reason, but I bet that had nothing to do with the prohibition itself.
My main issue since legalization is I find the smell disgusting.
It also imbues and latches itself onto to whatever is around you. Now legalization has people smoking it in my apartment complex or at restaurants and the smell just lingers around my house or on your clothes when your near it.
And then Every weed smoker I brought this up to told me tough luck.
I am sorry they were rude to you. I had an experience in Phoenix Arizona recently. I was traveling for work from an illegal state, and we were having a work event, it was nighttime, and the smell started coming in from the street pretty strong, after a few minutes a hotel employee came over and closed the window and the smell went away. Seems like the more reasonable reaction instead of calling the police or trying to get the people arrested, on the other hand it was rude to light up on the sidewalk just outside of an open window/doors. If people were reasonable about their consumption and courteous of others in regard to the smell, there wouldn't be an issue. It's too bad we just can't make it illegal to be a rear end.
I support people being able to consume them but don't see much difference in the person who walks out in public reeking of cannabis than the person who is reeking of alcohol. When you walk around in public smelling of an intoxicant in places where it's not generally consumed in public don't be surprised when/if people look at you sideways.
> My main issue since legalization is I find the smell disgusting.
Tough luck.
I also dislike coffee breath, cigarette smoke, the smell of energy drinks, cinnamon chewing gum, perfumes, beer, dog shit, fertilizers, some garden flowers, car exhausts, ...
But on the bright side, there will be more variety in weed strains. They do smell differently. Some really are nasty, some are very pleasant. I absolutely love the smell of hashish, but I guess that's still gonna be rare.
It is "tough luck" as you frame it since collective good takes precedence :). I do disagree about the smell lingering, the marijuana smell doesn't stay around for a long, overnight or so, while tobacco smoke does imbibe itself to clothes and requires a wash and I don't see people saying one cannot smoke cigarettes, especially in Germany or any EU countries.
In any case nobody cares what you think, about MJ, sorry but not sorry. If this were true we wouldn't have highly deadly/poisonous substances such as alcohol around.
That and capitalism, airplanes, industrial messes cause cancer and more, cars, alcohol, guns, war, famine, poverty, all maim kill, ruin lives and we keep all these things we invented through history.
But ooo man the moral panic over plants nature provides
It all just screams fake moral outrage to keep people buying man-made vices
I believe that overall the decision is a good one, there are no real good reasons why cannabis should be prohibited.
At the same time, I strongly hope that the cannabis smokers will be considerate of the people around them. It is quite a foul smell if you are not partaking yourself.
It’s been legal since 2018, up here in Canada, and other than extreme amount of cannabis shops in every other block, it’s basically been the same as pre-legalization. People who were into it, still into it. People who didn’t still don’t. Maybe just the people who were curious but didn’t want to try it because it was illegal tried it out and joined either of the camps.
I’m not the biggest fan, but as a person who enjoys drinking from time to time, who am I to rob people from their good times when I get to do it freely?
Thanks for the report, so basically it removed the legal burden on people and police, no need to hide or buy at secret deals, and no need to arrest them all the time for smoking, is it right ?
Are there regulation on the production of cannabis on sale ? concentration and limits in amount of impurities etc ?
This is all I ask. I've never had an interest in weed, but I also don't think it should be illegal. After it was legalized in my state, I started second guessing my stance out of spite. I quickly got tired of not being able to do a chore like grocery shopping without having the store stink of weed because someone couldn't open a window while they baked in their car, or whatever. The commercial culture that sprung up is also annoying, with the amount of dispensary billboards rivaled only by billboards for personal injury lawyers. It's be one thing if it died down after the first year, but that the in-your-faceness of it persists is starting to feel more like an indoctrination. At least in my state, the cannabis community has revealed itself to be the annoying children they were stereotyped as, and that is just disappointing since I voted to legalize it.
What can we expect we billions are poured as investments? And worse and more dangerous than the commercial culture for me is the resulting aggressive push against any health questions, again I imagine due to huge financial interests. Unfortunately as always recently the debate has been binarized in pro or against camps. Plenty of things are legal and bad for you, that should be another debate.
Wow, you should re-read what you wrote and then replace "weed" with something else people partake in, like alcohol or gambling and then see if anyone agrees with you. If we catered to minorities like you there wouldn't be any food around that didn't have the "correct" smell an people would only eat "approved" food. In any case I'm glad we have some sort of democracy that doesn't cater to people like you.
Depends on if they smoke pot and hashish, to me. If you ever pour out a Carlsberg, their hops smell extremely like fresh, nice pot. Most non-smokers (canna or otherwise) seem to like it, or at least tolerate it. Hashish does have a much more pungent smell, and can be uncomfortable at times -- even to me, a smoker for 25 years now.
Personal preference does come into it. I rather like the smell of certain kinds of smoke, but cannabis has this very strange sweetness which I find unpleasant. Smells certainly don't correlate with safety though; I like the scent of white spirit!
When outdoors, wind comes into it. They really ought to have two smoking areas on each railway platform, one on either end, and make it compulsory for smokers to use whichever one would carry the smoke away from other users on a given day. Or, have a smoking shelter with a tall chimney to take it away more effectively vertically.
Tobacco is actually more addictive than weed. I have a friend in Berlin who substituted tobacco for some herbal mix some years ago. He was a heavy smoker until then. Basically he just kept on smoking but swapped out the tobacco. A few weeks in he realized he didn't need to any more. It, smells a bit unpleasant but it got him completely off the tobacco with essentially zero effort. He rolls like one or two a day max. Usually with some weed and a beer on the side.
I don't smoke myself (tobacco or weed) but I know plenty of people who do, or who used to (multiple packs a day, like my friend above). Quitting is hard apparently. So, from that to one or two per day sounds like it should be an improvement.
The nastiest thing with weed is having to deal with drug dealers to get it. Bringing it out of the criminal corner is a good thing. There are a lot of drug dealers who also sell far nastier stuff than weed. Crack cocaine apparently is a growing problem in Berlin.
> there are no real good reasons why cannabis should be prohibited.
Is there any good reason why alcohol should be prohibited?
Regulating the quality of the cannabis on the market is a large win for public health among users of cannabis. In a black market, you can't be really sure what you're buying and people are incentivized to buy a stronger product even if they don't actually need the stronger variant.
About time. Weed and hash being illegal has put a large portion of my generation (German Gen Xer here) on the wrong side of the law and gave us an unnecessary deep distrust in law enforcement of any kind.
That is a very good point. The damages done to society by criminalizing something a lot of people consider a part of their life. Especially, as the harm is only on oneself.
Talking to cops is not so dangerous in all countries. Many countries have cops that act reasonably. Are you from the US? I hear it can be dangerous to talk to cops there.
Consumption of all drugs is legal in Germany. The problem is buying/selling/production, as well as simple possession. I think this is the case in most countries.
> This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US.
It doesn't explain the difference, no, since the same is true about the US. In most states, consumption of most drugs is not a crime - possession, production, distribution, sale, and trafficking are the actual crimes prosecuted.
> This tiny detail makes the difference why employer-mandated drug tests are not a thing in Germany like it is in the US.
Not really. The business of employer-mandated drug testing in the EU is generally tricky, and employees enjoy wide ranging protections. Most countries only allow drug testing where there is a certain aspect of risk, and in most of those case, only a physician can perform the test, and cannot share findings, only declare the subject as fit for duties or not.
In Germany, specifically, a pre-employment test but a physician is allowed, and when employed only rarely and for very specific circumstances.
You're probably right that it's the case in most countries, but an interesting counterexample is Sweden, where testing positive on a drug test is a criminal offence. Police can arrest you for appearing to be under the influence of drugs, and if they find any traces in a urine test, they'll fine you for it.
I hope that legalization in Germany will lead to more sane laws in Sweden, but honestly, I'm not holding my breath for it
I saw a man get hassled by Swedish police on a train just after crossing the Øresund Bridge. "The dog is very interested in your bag", they said. The man admitted that maybe he had smoked marijuana in Copenhagen and they left him alone.
I'm sure selective enforcement is at play, but at least in my experience they didn't care.
Even more wild is Singapore's law that it is illegal for citizens and permanent residents to consume illegal substances, even if that consumption occurred in another country where it is legal.[1]
So you have Singaporeans testing positive for cannabis upon arrival at the airport after a trip to Thailand, who are not in possession of cannabis, have not consumed it in Singapore (or another country where it is illegal) and they are charged with a crime.
I watched other people smoke cannabis, and after producing some foul fumes, they were just passively lying on the floor with a stare of apathy. I decided to NEVER try this, and to this day I have no regrets; I enjoy being in full control of my senses (I also do not drink alcohol and do not smoke).
The only thing hallucinating in my place is neural language models that I do research on.
However, I do support the legalization of cannabis, as scientific evidence suggests that can reduce crime and reduce attractiveness of it as a kind of "forbidden fruit", and I think it'd be wrong to criminalize those people who were too curious for their own good. There also seem well-attested cases for medical use.
> and after producing some foul fumes, they were just passively lying on the floor with a stare of apathy
That's like deciding to never try beer after seeing some people getting blackout drunk. Of course, it's your choice and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that but still a weird argument to make. A lot of things when taken to the extreme can lead to very negative outcomes, not exactly a good reason to penalize (I know you're not suggesting that) or judge the people capable of moderation.
It's naive, not weird, which is to be expected by someone who never smoked.
I think, the observation isn't even far off in many situations, especially with youth (who smoke and drink for peer pressure, too). Because of illegalization, there was a substantial incentive to breed extremely potent cannabis genetics, grown in tightly controlled and optimized indoor operations. Or even worse: Weed cut with synthetic cannabinoids. Because you get more bang for your bug, and in particular more bang for trafficked mass (same reason fentanyl is everywhere). There is nothing chill about your typical street dope. For a first time user, chances are they will have a bad time. Too many people do one or two puffs and find themselves already way too "high". As of now, smoking is really only enjoyable, if you have some tolerance, in my opinion.
This will change now. We will see a huge variety of weed strains in people's hands. Not only because, obviously, people will exchange home grown produce (although still illegal), but also because medical cannabis access got a lot easier too now. Meaning you get clean, controlled, defined cannabis in pharmacies, if you find a doctor to $ign the prescription. There will be less pure flower, more leafy mixes, which I believe was common in the past. E.g. a high CBD, moderate/low THC breed will offer a much more enjoyable "on-boarding" experience, but it was nearly impossible to find on the illegal street market.
The culture around weed will change. It will get less intense, but more casual, more chill, more fun. OP will see more people smoking cannabis the same way people enjoy a glass of wine.
> That's like deciding to never try beer after seeing some people getting blackout drunk.
Out of all reasons to never try beer, this actually seems like a pretty good one? If my #1 reason would be seeing a drunk driver crash, then this would be a solid #2.
I'm not one to go moralize other people's use of substances, but it's also weird for me to read your take on it. Those are very common and good reasons for people not to try substances.
I've watched a fair number of weed smoker's lives (~10) and they fall into two distinct categories.
One set smoke weed and then partake in creative, explorative, or otherwise effort filled pursuits. Generally I feel that weed has likely improved their lives.
The other set smoke weed and consume... consume tv, consume video games, consume food, consume music. These people seem to fall into a slump that weed seems to participate in keeping them in. Weed lowers the bar to enjoy yourself and thus raises the bar for other activities. If weed and video games feels good, then why call up friends and go bowling? It's not addictive, but it does have a kind of gravity because it's an activity that participates in the economy of potential activities. For these people weed entertains them, at the cost of them becoming a more boring person.
This is pretty accurate to my experience. Weed makes many relaxing activities more enjoyable. On nights when I had nothing planned and wanted a chill night at home, weed would make that more enjoyable. But then it became easy to justify smoking every night that I didn't have anything going... which is most nights. So, soon I was smoking basically every night.
That said, I feel like I drifted between the two categories you describe. Sometimes I'd chill on the couch and do nothing but consume. Others I'd feel inspired to do something productive, like work on a side project, clean the house, go for a walk, or practice guitar.
I think we overstate how interesting people are in general. Maybe those people would've just been boring and consumed media in ways you don't seem to approve of sober otherwise?
It feels like you are describing fentanyl.
You can do a lot of enjoyable things while high and you generally don't collapse to the ground when smoking weed.
Cannabis is a tool, if you misuse it, you can waste your entire life - but it's heaps better than sugar or alchol, especially if you avoid smoking it (which destroys your lungs). Edibles or vapes are much better.
If you use it well, it can be a good aid to relax and improve your quality of life - or maybe to endure a hard time in in your life.
If it wasn't a hassle to buy it, I'd definitely vape some instead of drinking beer to relax.
Maybe let's not get ahead of ourselves... sugar when consumed in moderation and with enough fiber/etc. is not really an issue. Also a lot depends on how you chose to consume cannabis if you're smoking it, it's no better than tobacco (besides that you're likely to do that way less frequently).
they could also be describing use of some of those synthetic 'weed' varieties that were floating around everywhere in the early 2000's which were just inert plant matter sprayed with some research chemical or another. Those had some pretty wild effects on folks.
I too have never tried cannabis, and I too support legalisation.
Not because of the effects it has on the consumer, but because the effects it has on the producer.
It depends on where you are, but where I am - the UK - the producers are primarily enslaved. A fact that is rarely talked about.
Recently there was a big drug bust. The headlines all described how many dogs were freed - less than twenty. But deep in the articles behind euphemistic language you could read that one and a half thousand enslaved people were also freed.
Producers following the laws can not compete with illegal producers on price. So even if you make consumption legal, the illegal networks will remain and become even bigger as the market expands.
Weed can be classified as a depressant, stimulant, or hallucinogen (but never an opiate), according to the University of Maryland.
There's power-creep to consider. Modern weed isn't the weed of the 70s after all the cross-breeding. I've read about high schoolers acquiring cannibus-induced psychosis.
Cannabis can cause hallucinations! It can do so in at least two ways. One is a somewhat rare primary effect of the consumption, and the other is the triggering of a latent mental disorder.
From personal experience, it is hallucinogenic. I mean it's not like you're seeing things which don't exist, but both visual and auditory perceptions can get deformed, a bit like what LSD does. Combined that with making me significantly dumber and having literally 5-second memory span, I get very anxious / paranoid since I misinterpret things. (I consume weed very rarely as a result)
Good for you! That takes willpower. I'm also curious about your stance on less controversial drugs like coffee and sugar. (Sugar is surprisingly insidious!)
> I enjoy being in full control of my senses
Heh. I suspect you're a lot less in control than you think you are. It took me experiencing mushrooms and LSD to really open my eyes to the ridiculous amount of processing our minds do just outside of our awareness. I'm sure this could be explored without mind altering chemicals too, but few do.
Wow you need to step out of your parents basement and experience more of the world rather than made up "models" you play with. I'm sure you don't eat different foods or don't try different spices because of reasons. In any case people like you shouldn't be allowed to judge others and impose any rules on anyone but themselves.
Oh I just can't wait for all the wunderbar cannabis strains to come out of Germany:
Zwischenrauchgenusserlebnisgrünblattsorte (Inter-smoke-enjoyment-green-leaf-variety): Das ist für die Zwischendurch Raucher. Machst du happy ohne zu viel Trubel. Gutes Grünblatt!
Wolkenkuckucksheimtraumwolkenpuff (Cloud-cuckoo-land-dream-cloud-puff):Dieses bringt dich hoch, hoch, bis zu den Wolken! Man träumt schön und fühlt sich wie im Märchenland.
Glückseligkeitsgefühlsauslöserkraut (Happiness-feeling-trigger-weed): Einmal puffen und du bist im Glückseligkeits-Himmel. Alles fühlt sich super an.
Gedankensprunghochflugblütezeit (Thought-leap-high-flight-blooming-time): Für die Kreativen Köpfe! Deine Gedanken machen Sprünge und fliegen hoch – Boom, Ideen überall!
Entspannungswunderwirkungsgewächs (Relaxation-miracle-effect-plant): Mega Entspannung garantiert. Nach einem Zug, alles ist chillig. Wie ein Wunder!
Lachanfallverursachendeswundergras (Giggle-fit-causing-wonder-grass): Vorsicht, Lachkrämpfe vorprogrammiert! Mit Freunden rauchen und der Spaß hört nicht auf.
Seelenruhigbalsamblattgenussmittel (Soul-calm-balm-leaf-enjoyment-substance): Deine Seele wird super ruhig. Stress? Welcher Stress? Alles easy.
Tiefenentspannungsnaturgenusserlebnis (Deep-relaxation-nature-enjoyment-experience): Bringt dich runter auf die Erde. Natur pur, tiefenentspannt und glücklich.
Kreativitätsschubgrünblattinspiration (Creativity-boost-green-leaf-inspiration): Künstler? Musiker? Hier kommt deine Inspiration! Kreativitätsschub im Anflug.
Wolkenreitertraumwiesengenusskraut (Cloud-rider-dream-meadow-enjoyment-weed): Fühl dich wie auf einer weichen Wiese, fliegend durch die Träume. Totaler Genuss!
Is there anything blocking the rest of EU from legalizing cannabis in this manner, aside from internal (national) politics? Whenever this topic comes up in our country, it's always met with opposition claiming that it would be against the EU regulations, or international treaties, or some other external blocker that we can't control.
These reasons sound like a stall tactic given that a few EU countries have managed legalization thus far, but I'm not familiar with the relevant laws. Do they have any legitimacy to them?
How about the horrible smell produced by those who smoke? It's super reckless to expose others to negative side-effects by somebody who can't control themselves and must smoke.
Or the fact that a big portion of the population is not in favor of legalization. The new law in Germany is controversial, too, and chances are high that the next government (to be elected late 2025, which is most probably shifting towards the right) is going to change/revoke this law, as they have already announced.
Didn't Germany have a way, way more ambitious plan at the beginning, basically the Canadian model with fully legalized sales, dispensaries etc. only for it to get shot down by the EU? So they backed down and ended up with this halfbaked compromise..
Technically, both compatibility with EU law and international law is yet to be decided, with the international law incompatibility already being pretty obvious. In Germany, the latter incompatibility is not immediately problematic. This may be different for other countries. The former may still manifest insofar as lawsuits will be brought forward.
However, we're already pretty sure that the current change in law will require further tuning as issues become apparent. Still, you need to start somewhere.
It's not like Germany is the first country in the EU to do this. Malta and Luxembourg had already legalized possession and cultivation and it's basically legal in Spain too.
And "international law" seems like a joke at this point anyway (in general, but especially regarding weed). Canada went way further with no repercussions and more importantly the US which basically forced the 1988 Convention/treaty on the rest of the world is completely flaunting it itself.
Meanwhile Thailand is rolling back it's legalisation of cannabis. Even though the industry brought in over a billion USD, it will be banned at the end of the year, citing protection of health of the youth. The population seems to approve of the reversal (medical use is kept). I think a few countries will be watching carefully after seeing how the experiment goes.
Whilst the majority of users seem to be fine, it can absolutely and seriously ruin some people's mental health.
Germany's largest party, the CDU/CSU union, has already announced that they intend to revoke the law ("make cannabis illegal again"). It is only a matter of time until they run the state again, and I'd say whether they actually work on the revocation depends on the junior political party they will need to form the government.
For example, if in 2025 the CDU/CSU and SPD form the new goverment (a constellation that has happened already a few times), I'd say chances are high that cannabis is going to be illegal again. And this turnout is a relatively probable scenario.
Of course, it can affect people’s mental health if they consume too much of it. Lack of education and some people’s self-control were never a reason to make alcohol illegal.
This is the first that I am hearing about the reversal. I am a bit disappointed, but I did see news about the rollout. It was pretty intense and probably not much regulation. So, is this a reactionary response to minority issues or was there a consistent issue?
> Whilst the majority of users seem to be fine, it can absolutely and seriously ruin some people's mental health.
I never doubt that marijuana can negatively affect certain people with the potential for mental health issues, but are there any hard science about the affect on mental health? You mention "majority" vs "some". Is that 51/49? 99.99/.01? The former sounds significant; the latter sounds like a stat to push an agenda.
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I totally agree. It is, however a flawed argument in the context of legalization. One of the arguments for the legalization by the health ministry is that prohibition has been ineffective, factually not avoiding or even reducing (excess) weed consumption (among minors). Prohibition has criminalized many people for their consumption (via necessary circumstances such as possession), at the same time often denying help to those consumers who needed it.
The goals of drug policy should be: - help consumers to avoid or treat harmful consumption, especially minors - do not criminalize adult citizens who do no harm to others
Neither of these goals have been achieved by prohibition. Legalization is not going to help on the first point either, but might make it easier.
In the context of the second point: prohibition has been a nasty vehicle for arbitrary, often racist policing. Given that prohibition is not realistically possible in full consequence, the inherent tools of criminalizing alleged drug users are often applied to specific groups only, often for racist motives. Throwing around cocaine at the company party of your startup will hardly be punished, whereas the immigrant neighbor ends up in jail for smoking a joint.
Either it's okay for adults to consent to activities that don't harm others or its not. People should have the right to choose what to do with their bodies, and the legal system should have to ability to disincentivize antisocial behavior in ways that are productive i.e. that actually reduce it.
The antisocial behavior is not people selling/smoking a joint or having/selling consensual sex -- and while it might be associated with them, the government should be tackling those other, actual problems instead.
It also imbues and latches itself onto to whatever is around you. Now legalization has people smoking it in my apartment complex or at restaurants and the smell just lingers around my house or on your clothes when your near it.
And then Every weed smoker I brought this up to told me tough luck.
Tough luck.
I also dislike coffee breath, cigarette smoke, the smell of energy drinks, cinnamon chewing gum, perfumes, beer, dog shit, fertilizers, some garden flowers, car exhausts, ...
But on the bright side, there will be more variety in weed strains. They do smell differently. Some really are nasty, some are very pleasant. I absolutely love the smell of hashish, but I guess that's still gonna be rare.
In any case nobody cares what you think, about MJ, sorry but not sorry. If this were true we wouldn't have highly deadly/poisonous substances such as alcohol around.
But ooo man the moral panic over plants nature provides
It all just screams fake moral outrage to keep people buying man-made vices
At the same time, I strongly hope that the cannabis smokers will be considerate of the people around them. It is quite a foul smell if you are not partaking yourself.
I’m not the biggest fan, but as a person who enjoys drinking from time to time, who am I to rob people from their good times when I get to do it freely?
Are there regulation on the production of cannabis on sale ? concentration and limits in amount of impurities etc ?
When outdoors, wind comes into it. They really ought to have two smoking areas on each railway platform, one on either end, and make it compulsory for smokers to use whichever one would carry the smoke away from other users on a given day. Or, have a smoking shelter with a tall chimney to take it away more effectively vertically.
I don't smoke myself (tobacco or weed) but I know plenty of people who do, or who used to (multiple packs a day, like my friend above). Quitting is hard apparently. So, from that to one or two per day sounds like it should be an improvement.
The nastiest thing with weed is having to deal with drug dealers to get it. Bringing it out of the criminal corner is a good thing. There are a lot of drug dealers who also sell far nastier stuff than weed. Crack cocaine apparently is a growing problem in Berlin.
Is there any good reason why alcohol should be prohibited?
Regulating the quality of the cannabis on the market is a large win for public health among users of cannabis. In a black market, you can't be really sure what you're buying and people are incentivized to buy a stronger product even if they don't actually need the stronger variant.
healthy skepticism seems in short supply thou
it's definitely necessary, no one should talk to cops
It doesn't explain the difference, no, since the same is true about the US. In most states, consumption of most drugs is not a crime - possession, production, distribution, sale, and trafficking are the actual crimes prosecuted.
I assume that Germany does drug testing for safety-related roles? Crane operators, pilots, nuclear plant operators?
It would be wild if they don't.
Not really. The business of employer-mandated drug testing in the EU is generally tricky, and employees enjoy wide ranging protections. Most countries only allow drug testing where there is a certain aspect of risk, and in most of those case, only a physician can perform the test, and cannot share findings, only declare the subject as fit for duties or not.
In Germany, specifically, a pre-employment test but a physician is allowed, and when employed only rarely and for very specific circumstances.
I hope that legalization in Germany will lead to more sane laws in Sweden, but honestly, I'm not holding my breath for it
I'm sure selective enforcement is at play, but at least in my experience they didn't care.
So you have Singaporeans testing positive for cannabis upon arrival at the airport after a trip to Thailand, who are not in possession of cannabis, have not consumed it in Singapore (or another country where it is illegal) and they are charged with a crime.
[1] https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/cannabis-drug-laws...
Deleted Comment
Production and trade under very strict restriction in so-called cannabis clubs.
Trade as a non-narcotic medication in pharmacies, restricted to prescriptions.
Production at home, with very strict limits towards quantity of plants and size of harvest.
Possession of limited amounts of cannabis and thus public consumption with restrictions regarding proximity to institutions for children.
The only thing hallucinating in my place is neural language models that I do research on.
However, I do support the legalization of cannabis, as scientific evidence suggests that can reduce crime and reduce attractiveness of it as a kind of "forbidden fruit", and I think it'd be wrong to criminalize those people who were too curious for their own good. There also seem well-attested cases for medical use.
That's like deciding to never try beer after seeing some people getting blackout drunk. Of course, it's your choice and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that but still a weird argument to make. A lot of things when taken to the extreme can lead to very negative outcomes, not exactly a good reason to penalize (I know you're not suggesting that) or judge the people capable of moderation.
It's naive, not weird, which is to be expected by someone who never smoked.
I think, the observation isn't even far off in many situations, especially with youth (who smoke and drink for peer pressure, too). Because of illegalization, there was a substantial incentive to breed extremely potent cannabis genetics, grown in tightly controlled and optimized indoor operations. Or even worse: Weed cut with synthetic cannabinoids. Because you get more bang for your bug, and in particular more bang for trafficked mass (same reason fentanyl is everywhere). There is nothing chill about your typical street dope. For a first time user, chances are they will have a bad time. Too many people do one or two puffs and find themselves already way too "high". As of now, smoking is really only enjoyable, if you have some tolerance, in my opinion.
This will change now. We will see a huge variety of weed strains in people's hands. Not only because, obviously, people will exchange home grown produce (although still illegal), but also because medical cannabis access got a lot easier too now. Meaning you get clean, controlled, defined cannabis in pharmacies, if you find a doctor to $ign the prescription. There will be less pure flower, more leafy mixes, which I believe was common in the past. E.g. a high CBD, moderate/low THC breed will offer a much more enjoyable "on-boarding" experience, but it was nearly impossible to find on the illegal street market.
The culture around weed will change. It will get less intense, but more casual, more chill, more fun. OP will see more people smoking cannabis the same way people enjoy a glass of wine.
Out of all reasons to never try beer, this actually seems like a pretty good one? If my #1 reason would be seeing a drunk driver crash, then this would be a solid #2.
I'm not one to go moralize other people's use of substances, but it's also weird for me to read your take on it. Those are very common and good reasons for people not to try substances.
One set smoke weed and then partake in creative, explorative, or otherwise effort filled pursuits. Generally I feel that weed has likely improved their lives.
The other set smoke weed and consume... consume tv, consume video games, consume food, consume music. These people seem to fall into a slump that weed seems to participate in keeping them in. Weed lowers the bar to enjoy yourself and thus raises the bar for other activities. If weed and video games feels good, then why call up friends and go bowling? It's not addictive, but it does have a kind of gravity because it's an activity that participates in the economy of potential activities. For these people weed entertains them, at the cost of them becoming a more boring person.
That said, I feel like I drifted between the two categories you describe. Sometimes I'd chill on the couch and do nothing but consume. Others I'd feel inspired to do something productive, like work on a side project, clean the house, go for a walk, or practice guitar.
This reaction is not representative of the general effects of cannabis smoking.
Cannabis is a tool, if you misuse it, you can waste your entire life - but it's heaps better than sugar or alchol, especially if you avoid smoking it (which destroys your lungs). Edibles or vapes are much better.
If you use it well, it can be a good aid to relax and improve your quality of life - or maybe to endure a hard time in in your life.
If it wasn't a hassle to buy it, I'd definitely vape some instead of drinking beer to relax.
Maybe let's not get ahead of ourselves... sugar when consumed in moderation and with enough fiber/etc. is not really an issue. Also a lot depends on how you chose to consume cannabis if you're smoking it, it's no better than tobacco (besides that you're likely to do that way less frequently).
Not because of the effects it has on the consumer, but because the effects it has on the producer.
It depends on where you are, but where I am - the UK - the producers are primarily enslaved. A fact that is rarely talked about.
Recently there was a big drug bust. The headlines all described how many dogs were freed - less than twenty. But deep in the articles behind euphemistic language you could read that one and a half thousand enslaved people were also freed.
There's power-creep to consider. Modern weed isn't the weed of the 70s after all the cross-breeding. I've read about high schoolers acquiring cannibus-induced psychosis.
https://www.healthline.com/health/is-weed-a-depressant
Source: https://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtm.... Do note that Erowid calls hallucinations "visuals".
> I enjoy being in full control of my senses
Heh. I suspect you're a lot less in control than you think you are. It took me experiencing mushrooms and LSD to really open my eyes to the ridiculous amount of processing our minds do just outside of our awareness. I'm sure this could be explored without mind altering chemicals too, but few do.
https://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtm...
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Zwischenrauchgenusserlebnisgrünblattsorte (Inter-smoke-enjoyment-green-leaf-variety): Das ist für die Zwischendurch Raucher. Machst du happy ohne zu viel Trubel. Gutes Grünblatt!
Wolkenkuckucksheimtraumwolkenpuff (Cloud-cuckoo-land-dream-cloud-puff):Dieses bringt dich hoch, hoch, bis zu den Wolken! Man träumt schön und fühlt sich wie im Märchenland.
Glückseligkeitsgefühlsauslöserkraut (Happiness-feeling-trigger-weed): Einmal puffen und du bist im Glückseligkeits-Himmel. Alles fühlt sich super an.
Gedankensprunghochflugblütezeit (Thought-leap-high-flight-blooming-time): Für die Kreativen Köpfe! Deine Gedanken machen Sprünge und fliegen hoch – Boom, Ideen überall!
Entspannungswunderwirkungsgewächs (Relaxation-miracle-effect-plant): Mega Entspannung garantiert. Nach einem Zug, alles ist chillig. Wie ein Wunder!
Lachanfallverursachendeswundergras (Giggle-fit-causing-wonder-grass): Vorsicht, Lachkrämpfe vorprogrammiert! Mit Freunden rauchen und der Spaß hört nicht auf.
Seelenruhigbalsamblattgenussmittel (Soul-calm-balm-leaf-enjoyment-substance): Deine Seele wird super ruhig. Stress? Welcher Stress? Alles easy.
Tiefenentspannungsnaturgenusserlebnis (Deep-relaxation-nature-enjoyment-experience): Bringt dich runter auf die Erde. Natur pur, tiefenentspannt und glücklich.
Kreativitätsschubgrünblattinspiration (Creativity-boost-green-leaf-inspiration): Künstler? Musiker? Hier kommt deine Inspiration! Kreativitätsschub im Anflug.
Wolkenreitertraumwiesengenusskraut (Cloud-rider-dream-meadow-enjoyment-weed): Fühl dich wie auf einer weichen Wiese, fliegend durch die Träume. Totaler Genuss!
Relaxenundwatschenderblinkenlichten (Relax-watch-blinking-lights)
Is there anything blocking the rest of EU from legalizing cannabis in this manner, aside from internal (national) politics? Whenever this topic comes up in our country, it's always met with opposition claiming that it would be against the EU regulations, or international treaties, or some other external blocker that we can't control.
These reasons sound like a stall tactic given that a few EU countries have managed legalization thus far, but I'm not familiar with the relevant laws. Do they have any legitimacy to them?
However, we're already pretty sure that the current change in law will require further tuning as issues become apparent. Still, you need to start somewhere.
And "international law" seems like a joke at this point anyway (in general, but especially regarding weed). Canada went way further with no repercussions and more importantly the US which basically forced the 1988 Convention/treaty on the rest of the world is completely flaunting it itself.
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Whilst the majority of users seem to be fine, it can absolutely and seriously ruin some people's mental health.
For example, if in 2025 the CDU/CSU and SPD form the new goverment (a constellation that has happened already a few times), I'd say chances are high that cannabis is going to be illegal again. And this turnout is a relatively probable scenario.
> Whilst the majority of users seem to be fine, it can absolutely and seriously ruin some people's mental health.
I never doubt that marijuana can negatively affect certain people with the potential for mental health issues, but are there any hard science about the affect on mental health? You mention "majority" vs "some". Is that 51/49? 99.99/.01? The former sounds significant; the latter sounds like a stat to push an agenda.