My upgrade to Monterey (MacOS 12.x) broke my Canon D530 printer driver. Re-installing the driver didn't help. Now I have to print to a PDF, copy that to an old Snow Leopard 10.6 machine, and print from there. FYI, Snow Leopard is 11 major OS revisions behind Monterey. Printing worked fine in Mohave, 3 major revisions ago.
I also can't write any files to /, even with SIP disabled, and during the Monterey upgrade, Apple deleted all files and directories in / that they didn't recognize, including my system backup. I had to recover that from Backblaze. Can't say I'm a fan of recent MacOS. If you think you are in control of your Apple machine, think again.
The root (/) is a disk image/APFS snapshot. Apple didn't delete anything... their update replaced that image that you are booting from, which is supposed to be read-only.
/dev/disk3s3s1 on / (apfs, sealed, local, read-only, journaled)
devfs on /dev (devfs, local, nobrowse)
/dev/disk3s6 on /System/Volumes/VM (apfs, local, noexec, journaled, noatime, nobrowse)
/dev/disk3s4 on /System/Volumes/Preboot (apfs, local, journaled, nobrowse)
/dev/disk3s2 on /System/Volumes/Update (apfs, local, journaled, nobrowse)
/dev/disk1s2 on /System/Volumes/xarts (apfs, local, noexec, journaled, noatime, nobrowse)
/dev/disk1s1 on /System/Volumes/iSCPreboot (apfs, local, journaled, nobrowse)
/dev/disk1s3 on /System/Volumes/Hardware (apfs, local, journaled, nobrowse)
/dev/disk3s1 on /System/Volumes/Data (apfs, local, journaled, nobrowse, protect, root data)
map auto_home on /System/Volumes/Data/home (autofs, automounted, nobrowse)
Stuff that is located on /System/Volumes/Data is on a non-readonly disk and will not be touched by any updates. You can see folders in /System/Volumes/Data that are also in / and there is some magic overlay that maps certain folders to /System/Volumes/Data automatically. So that files in /usr/local/ are actually stored in /System/Volumes/Data/usr/local.
Sounds like Canon is really bad in supporting driver changes in subsequent OS releases. I recall diagnosing the same issue with a colleagues Mac over 10 years ago. She updated the OS and the printer she bought with the computer 3 OS'es ago stopped working. Turns out something with how Printers were handled changed and Canon refused to release updated drivers for a discontinued machine. I recall that some third party hobbyist had developed a method to make the printer work but it took hours to try and get it working until we just gave up....also her dog accidentally yanked on the printer cord and it went flying off the table. That was also motivation to stop trying. I am more inclined to blame Canon than Apple here.
Why? Windows has been the one updating itself making sure to not break backwards printer support, not the other way around.
You can still use printers from the 90's on modern Windows, meanwhile MacOS seems to break support for recent printers between minor updates.
It's not like they're a cash-strapped start-up, if Microsoft can afford to invest in maintaining backwards compatibility, so can Apple.
Sounds like Apple is just lazy and doesn't care what it breaks treating their desktop OS like their mobile OS where app devs need to keep pace with them, and fans will die on the hill defending them.
Can confirm - Canon is horrible at updating their drivers; one of the reasons I no longer own, use or recommend any of their printers. Which is a shame since I really liked their laser printers :/
This does not always work for me. Sometimes it makes my printer print out dozens of pages of garbled commands. It varies between sources and tries, so I don't know.
I just saw an update come through on my Ubuntu 22.04 machine for CUPS. I know that Apple is the steward/owner of CUPS now, so I wonder if it's a related update.
Speaking in terms of having “control” over your machine is alarmist and thought-terminating. Your computer didn’t do what you expected it to. Hell, you’re very justified to go beyond that and say that it behaved in a way that it shouldn’t. Removing files from / without notification or backup is bad. Not being able to have files in / is a completely superficial and meaningless indication of “control”. Again, your machine isn’t behaving in a way that you’re expecting it to, or even that you’re used to. macOS is an operating system. Its job is to…be an operating system. It’s going to handle some things for you. That’s why it’s there.
Install little snitch and put it into alert mode and watch as you are overwhelmed with the tens of dozens of outbound connections going out to Apple or iCloud (despite not being signed into iServices) from dozens of system processes.
Why does my MacBook which isn’t enrolled in an mdm ping Apple for mdm config and policies? Why is accountsd phoning home when I’m not signed into an Apple account? Why does the Mac generate absurd amounts of app analytics which you can view in the console app yet can’t delete despite the fact that you turned off all analytics when setting up the machine? Why regardless of if I have WiFi logging enabled or disabled is it still spitting out WiFi velocity reports.
The OS used to be damn near perfect and it’s gone down hill since the first version to introduce iCloud signin. Every new feature they add is something I’ll never be interested in using. Disabling services you don’t want running so they stop phoning home or consuming resources is almost impossible anymore, requiring a dance of booting into recovery mode, disabling every single system protection mechanism, and then booting completely vulnerable into normal mode to then pray that the launchagent gods actually let you turn off mediaanalysisd or if nothing else that sudo has permission (sudo!!) to delete the plist file, and often you get permission denied errors or the process comes back after a reboot. It’s a shit show. The frustrating part is sip and all those things that prevent us from tuning our machines don’t even stop rootkits or the numerous zero days in the wild since it came out
WTF is this nonsense? The OS updated deleted files that it had no business deleting. It's my computer. If I want to put files in the Apple approved locations or if I want to put files in / or even if I wanted to put files in C:\, it's none of Apple's damn business. If placing files in / is a security threat, then I'd suggest your not doing security right.
Ok since these types of threads are typically filled with complaints, just to add another data point: I’ve upgraded last week and have not experienced any problems at all.
And yes, I’m using USB hubs, printers and even Java.
Me neither. The thing is that at the scale of an operating system like macOS or iOS is that even if only 1% of its users encounter an issue, it's still a lot of people. Enough to fill many discussion boards with complaints.
Apple doesn't have long tail support in its DNA. Its used to supporting 5 years of devices with just a handful of SKUs per generation. In contrast, Microsoft is used to supporting a huge variety of hardware and keeping it working.
> Apple Silicon Macs will enforce a restriction called “write XOR execute” (W^X). This means that chunks of memory will be designated as writable, or as executable, but never as both at the same time. Many macOS apps contain performance optimization programs that require memory to be both writable and executable, but this can lead to serious security issues. By enforcing W^X, Apple will harden Mac security at the memory level. App developers, however, won’t be left out in the cold — if they still need those optimization programs for their apps, they can use a new macOS API that provides a way to switch between write and execute permissions quickly and safely.
> W^X ("write xor execute", pronounced W xor X) is a security feature in operating systems and virtual machines. It is a memory protection policy whereby every page in a process's or kernel's address space may be either writable or executable, but not both. Without such protection, a program can write (as data "W") CPU instructions in an area of memory intended for data and then run (as executable "X"; or read-execute "RX") those instructions. This can be dangerous if the writer of the memory is malicious. W^X is the Unix-like terminology for a strict use of the general concept of executable space protection, controlled via the mprotect system call.
Most of the time with these update problems it's way more specific than that. It'll be an Apple silicon chip with a very specific system state, creating a low number of high profile errors that are indistinguishable from random.
It's still often a good idea to wait a few days or weeks before updating just in case you're caught by the bugs, but the rates of errors are usually much lower than the mainstream media reporting would lead you to believe.
I've also updated my M1 Pro to macOS 14.4 and use Java (versions 21 and 17) daily with IntelliJ IDEA without encountering any issues so far even when using debuggers and profilers. Not sure how to explain it !
In fact, I used to get kernel panics from time to time with USB hubs until a couple of major revisions ago.
What I’m running now, in part via monitor USB hub, is so far beyond the scope of what I expect to be part of QA and intended support that I’m surprised it’s not giving me any issues.
I feel bad for folks experiencing problems, but the upgrade was uneventful on my Macs as well. Work also rolled out the update company-wide with no apparent ill effects, which is surprising given all of the enterprise-y junk they install.
I, too, have had no trouble with USB hubs or Java since upgrading to 14.4. (I don't currently use a USB hub—my Thunderbolt dock has been fine, but I doubt it's close enough to count!)
This seems quite out of character for minor macOS releases. Yes, stuff breaks, but seldomly so broadly in a minor release.
Speculation about why: Apple had to push out a major iOS update before March 6 for the EU DMA deadline. They had almost two years to prepare, but they figured out fairly late that they could not negotiate (most of) their way out of it. So the weeks/months before the release, probably most of the focus of the OS (and infrastructure) teams was on the March 6 deadline.
I imagine that they had all security updates rolled into the macOS 14.4 and iOS 17.4 branches already. Then when March 6 came around, they released iOS 17.4 and they had to rush out macOS 14.4 as well (macOS 14.4 was already a day later than iOS 17.4, which is untypical for Apple), to avoid that bad actors find macOS vulnerabilities by looking at iOS changes.
> A change was introduced by Apple in macOS 14 where one consequence is that BankID on card stops working for some users. We have reported to Apple and hope they fix the error in an upcoming update. Recommendation: Wait to update to macOS 14 to avoid problems when using BankID on card.
Doesn't affect me as I use BankID on file (and I'm on 12.4), but the caution message sure surprised me, in the wrong sort of way.
You can't roll back, but you can downgrade. Might need to be a fresh install. I'm still on High Sierra as it's the last version to support proper text rendering on most of my monitors.
Apple does not accumulate a trail of old hardware. They deprecate their own hardware after about 5 years. Their “tail” is always about the same length.
I use EndeavourOS on all my old Mac hardware and update without fear literally every couple of days. It “just works”. So, a “long tail” of hardware is no excuse anyway.
Apple is in the middle off a platform transition from Intel to their own silicon. Some of these problems could be a de-emphasis on the Intel experience. Some of it though seems to be lees quality and more philosophy ( such as the claim it actively deleted files from root ).
If you are going to play in the Apple garden, you have to play the way they want you to.
>They deprecate their own hardware after about 5 years.
And people give Microsoft shit for not supporting Windows 10 more than 10 years when Apple only does 5.
>I use EndeavourOS on all my old Mac hardware and update without fear literally every couple of days
That's incredibly brave (or foolish) to have no fear of upgrading Arch, considering Arch does indeed break, it's not a question of IF, it's a question of WHEN.
Also had EndeavourOS for a while when I attempted to switch to Linux and, gave up on it when an update left me without sound. It's a great "batteries included" Arch distro, but can't tolerate such risks on a daily driver machine that I need it to work 100% of the time, every time.
For daily driving without update anxiety I'd go for something boring like Ubuntu/Debian based OSs, Fedora if you want more up-date, or even OpenSUSE if you want a sane rolling distro, but I'd stay away from Arch if you want your computer to just-work(TM) and don't wanna be your own part-time sys-admin.
> They deprecate their own hardware after about 5 years.
It's officially considered "vintage" 5 years after it is last sold, but that doesn't mean it won't receive OS updates. Apple considers hardware to be obsolete 7 years after sale ends, but is still likely to receive security updates for a while longer.
Their phones enjoy an even longer support window than their desktops/laptops if you consider security updates, the iPhone 5s (2013) just received a security update last year.
There's also cases where (shockingly to some) Apple just doesn't care.
I'm still more than bitter, after buying some nice 27" 4K HDR 144Hz monitors that Apple actively broke (and may still be broken) Display Stream Compression 1.4 for the Pro Display XDR.
When it was released, there were questions about how Apple was managing to drive that display.
Well, the answer is because they absolutely nerfed/bastardized DSC 1.4 from Big Sur to make it happen with some proprietary magic: those same screens could now only be driven at 60Hz in HDR10 or 95Hz in SDR.
Proof in the pudding was that my monitors (LG27GN950-B) actually allowed you to change the advertised/supported DSC version, and when I "downgraded" the monitors to DSC 1.2, performance actually improved, and allowed 120Hz SDR and 95Hz HDR.
This happened with many many users, across many screen types.
And if you downgraded to Catalina? Boom, back to 144 Hz.
Apple studiously ignored it, and may still be. They simply don't care if you're not using an Apple display.
Btw, do you mean you downgraded DP to 1.2? I think there isn’t a DSC 1.4 (only DP 1.4 which has DSC 1.2, and DP1.4a with DSC 1.2a).
Do you have any more info/links about this? I’m curious, since I do have a Pro Display XDR, and I’ve been trying to understand for some time how exactly it’s able to reach its bandwidth, which is definitely a rabbit hole.
Alternatively, is this evidence of a changing news cycle that is spending more time on the always-present background noise of social media complaints about updates? Do we perceive the rate of failure to be higher because news these days often takes the form of "let's summarize some reddit threads" and outlets realized that warnings about errors when updating software reliably get clicks?
Yes, I think you have nailed it. I have seen this same phenomenon happen in nearly every niche that I pay attention to. Only thing I would add is that a lot of articles are based on tweets, often from random users where the article author did nothing to verify and just included the tweet as the source
I'd guess not the latter — anecdotally, my intel mac has been increasingly sluggish after each macos upgrade, even after a clean install. I finally decided to revert to the oldest macos version possible (and then update by just one major version since unfortunately some apps I need don't support Catalina anymore) and the difference is night and day — my memory was right and my laptop _was_ faster before. And it's not hardware getting old or battery problems, it's the OS.
So I don't know if older macs are intentionally crippled or they're just ignored during QA, but I don't believe they're actually intentionally supported
This macOS version only supports models since 2017-19 (depending on product line). Apple don’t really have an excuse compared to Microsoft since they only have a few hardware options.
It’s amusing to compare the comments here to the comments on windows update threads. As nobody else has, let me add the reminder for everyone to switch to <different OS>.
I have doubts it's the latter - just a day or two ago there was an article trending on HN that building Hackintoshes is becoming harder and harder because Apple is removing drivers for old hardware only found in Macs that are not supported anymore.
Windows updates before MS fired their QA department were uneventful, after they fired their QA department, serious issues started popping up every single month. Including server systems not booting anymore.
One of the reasons MS introduced "patch Tuesday" in 2003 was because Windows updates until then had been notorious for years for causing issues randomly, which their corporate users hated firefighting without warning. By rolling out their updates on a predictable schedule, corporate IT depts could set their calendar to keep a day (or two) per month clear to do post-update firefighting, or (if they were really on the ball) to make time for their own QA before releasing the update to the rest of the org.
So unless the QA firing you're talking about was more than a quarter-century ago, Windows updates have always been issue-laden shitshows.
Readit News
I also can't write any files to /, even with SIP disabled, and during the Monterey upgrade, Apple deleted all files and directories in / that they didn't recognize, including my system backup. I had to recover that from Backblaze. Can't say I'm a fan of recent MacOS. If you think you are in control of your Apple machine, think again.
/System/Volumes/Data/Users/Shared/Previously Relocated Items/Security/hbbackup
I don't know how people are supposed to know this. Plus it is taking up 50GB of space!
You can still use printers from the 90's on modern Windows, meanwhile MacOS seems to break support for recent printers between minor updates.
It's not like they're a cash-strapped start-up, if Microsoft can afford to invest in maintaining backwards compatibility, so can Apple.
Sounds like Apple is just lazy and doesn't care what it breaks treating their desktop OS like their mobile OS where app devs need to keep pace with them, and fans will die on the hill defending them.
What about backwards compatibility?
Maybe .ps would be better, but even that isn't universally accepted.
It did exactly what it was programmed to do. It was not a malfunction, it was intentional:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag1AKIl_2GM&t=57s
Why does my MacBook which isn’t enrolled in an mdm ping Apple for mdm config and policies? Why is accountsd phoning home when I’m not signed into an Apple account? Why does the Mac generate absurd amounts of app analytics which you can view in the console app yet can’t delete despite the fact that you turned off all analytics when setting up the machine? Why regardless of if I have WiFi logging enabled or disabled is it still spitting out WiFi velocity reports.
The OS used to be damn near perfect and it’s gone down hill since the first version to introduce iCloud signin. Every new feature they add is something I’ll never be interested in using. Disabling services you don’t want running so they stop phoning home or consuming resources is almost impossible anymore, requiring a dance of booting into recovery mode, disabling every single system protection mechanism, and then booting completely vulnerable into normal mode to then pray that the launchagent gods actually let you turn off mediaanalysisd or if nothing else that sudo has permission (sudo!!) to delete the plist file, and often you get permission denied errors or the process comes back after a reboot. It’s a shit show. The frustrating part is sip and all those things that prevent us from tuning our machines don’t even stop rootkits or the numerous zero days in the wild since it came out
And yes, I’m using USB hubs, printers and even Java.
> Write XOR execute (W^X)
> Apple Silicon Macs will enforce a restriction called “write XOR execute” (W^X). This means that chunks of memory will be designated as writable, or as executable, but never as both at the same time. Many macOS apps contain performance optimization programs that require memory to be both writable and executable, but this can lead to serious security issues. By enforcing W^X, Apple will harden Mac security at the memory level. App developers, however, won’t be left out in the cold — if they still need those optimization programs for their apps, they can use a new macOS API that provides a way to switch between write and execute permissions quickly and safely.
And the nature of W^X - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%5EX
> W^X ("write xor execute", pronounced W xor X) is a security feature in operating systems and virtual machines. It is a memory protection policy whereby every page in a process's or kernel's address space may be either writable or executable, but not both. Without such protection, a program can write (as data "W") CPU instructions in an area of memory intended for data and then run (as executable "X"; or read-execute "RX") those instructions. This can be dangerous if the writer of the memory is malicious. W^X is the Unix-like terminology for a strict use of the general concept of executable space protection, controlled via the mprotect system call.
---
See also Porting just-in-time compilers to Apple silicon - https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple-silicon/port...
And W^X now mandatory in OpenBSD (8 years ago : https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11789169 )
It's still often a good idea to wait a few days or weeks before updating just in case you're caught by the bugs, but the rates of errors are usually much lower than the mainstream media reporting would lead you to believe.
In fact, I used to get kernel panics from time to time with USB hubs until a couple of major revisions ago.
What I’m running now, in part via monitor USB hub, is so far beyond the scope of what I expect to be part of QA and intended support that I’m surprised it’s not giving me any issues.
Dead Comment
Speculation about why: Apple had to push out a major iOS update before March 6 for the EU DMA deadline. They had almost two years to prepare, but they figured out fairly late that they could not negotiate (most of) their way out of it. So the weeks/months before the release, probably most of the focus of the OS (and infrastructure) teams was on the March 6 deadline.
I imagine that they had all security updates rolled into the macOS 14.4 and iOS 17.4 branches already. Then when March 6 came around, they released iOS 17.4 and they had to rush out macOS 14.4 as well (macOS 14.4 was already a day later than iOS 17.4, which is untypical for Apple), to avoid that bad actors find macOS vulnerabilities by looking at iOS changes.
“macOS Sonoma 14.4 Bug 'Destroys Saved Versions in iCloud Drive'”
https://www.macrumors.com/2024/03/19/sonoma-bug-destroys-sav...
> BankID on card and macOS
> A change was introduced by Apple in macOS 14 where one consequence is that BankID on card stops working for some users. We have reported to Apple and hope they fix the error in an upcoming update. Recommendation: Wait to update to macOS 14 to avoid problems when using BankID on card.
Doesn't affect me as I use BankID on file (and I'm on 12.4), but the caution message sure surprised me, in the wrong sort of way.
Really?! I feel like Windows is very good at rollbacks.
E.g., how does this compare to the rate of equivalent problems with large Windows releases?
I use EndeavourOS on all my old Mac hardware and update without fear literally every couple of days. It “just works”. So, a “long tail” of hardware is no excuse anyway.
Apple is in the middle off a platform transition from Intel to their own silicon. Some of these problems could be a de-emphasis on the Intel experience. Some of it though seems to be lees quality and more philosophy ( such as the claim it actively deleted files from root ).
If you are going to play in the Apple garden, you have to play the way they want you to.
And people give Microsoft shit for not supporting Windows 10 more than 10 years when Apple only does 5.
>I use EndeavourOS on all my old Mac hardware and update without fear literally every couple of days
That's incredibly brave (or foolish) to have no fear of upgrading Arch, considering Arch does indeed break, it's not a question of IF, it's a question of WHEN.
Also had EndeavourOS for a while when I attempted to switch to Linux and, gave up on it when an update left me without sound. It's a great "batteries included" Arch distro, but can't tolerate such risks on a daily driver machine that I need it to work 100% of the time, every time.
For daily driving without update anxiety I'd go for something boring like Ubuntu/Debian based OSs, Fedora if you want more up-date, or even OpenSUSE if you want a sane rolling distro, but I'd stay away from Arch if you want your computer to just-work(TM) and don't wanna be your own part-time sys-admin.
It's officially considered "vintage" 5 years after it is last sold, but that doesn't mean it won't receive OS updates. Apple considers hardware to be obsolete 7 years after sale ends, but is still likely to receive security updates for a while longer.
Their phones enjoy an even longer support window than their desktops/laptops if you consider security updates, the iPhone 5s (2013) just received a security update last year.
Unlikely since several of the issues seem to happen only on Apple Silicon.
I'm still more than bitter, after buying some nice 27" 4K HDR 144Hz monitors that Apple actively broke (and may still be broken) Display Stream Compression 1.4 for the Pro Display XDR.
When it was released, there were questions about how Apple was managing to drive that display.
Well, the answer is because they absolutely nerfed/bastardized DSC 1.4 from Big Sur to make it happen with some proprietary magic: those same screens could now only be driven at 60Hz in HDR10 or 95Hz in SDR.
Proof in the pudding was that my monitors (LG27GN950-B) actually allowed you to change the advertised/supported DSC version, and when I "downgraded" the monitors to DSC 1.2, performance actually improved, and allowed 120Hz SDR and 95Hz HDR.
This happened with many many users, across many screen types.
And if you downgraded to Catalina? Boom, back to 144 Hz.
Apple studiously ignored it, and may still be. They simply don't care if you're not using an Apple display.
Do you have any more info/links about this? I’m curious, since I do have a Pro Display XDR, and I’ve been trying to understand for some time how exactly it’s able to reach its bandwidth, which is definitely a rabbit hole.
You ask any long time macOS/OSX user and they will point to Apple software quality worsening well before anything comes up in the news media.
Heck, I'm in the camp that thinks Apple OSX software quality peaked at Snow Leopard and it has been all downhill since then, and this camp is massive.
I doubt we're being influenced by the "media".
So I don't know if older macs are intentionally crippled or they're just ignored during QA, but I don't believe they're actually intentionally supported
More likely neither. Software just becomes larger and more complex and thus slower on older hardware.
(My 2021 MacBook Pro 14" is still lightning-fast though, I never wait for anything.)
How much have they /really/ added to the OS (which is enabled on my hardware) and consuming extra resources?
It’s amusing to compare the comments here to the comments on windows update threads. As nobody else has, let me add the reminder for everyone to switch to <different OS>.
One of the reasons MS introduced "patch Tuesday" in 2003 was because Windows updates until then had been notorious for years for causing issues randomly, which their corporate users hated firefighting without warning. By rolling out their updates on a predictable schedule, corporate IT depts could set their calendar to keep a day (or two) per month clear to do post-update firefighting, or (if they were really on the ball) to make time for their own QA before releasing the update to the rest of the org.
So unless the QA firing you're talking about was more than a quarter-century ago, Windows updates have always been issue-laden shitshows.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patch_Tuesday