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jillesvangurp · 2 years ago
Design is a bit of a fashion industry. Lots of people imitating each other. I'm not a designer but I know a few good ones and appreciate good design.

What I appreciate in good design is not only looking good but standing out from the crowd. The problem with imitating others is that you end up looking like everything else. It's not offensive. But also not remarkable or memorable. A lot of web design suffers from being bland and generic.

A few years ago we had an app and our designer came up with an intense shade of red that was slightly pinkish. He then proceeded to use that for our app icon. Net result: it jumped out from all the other icons on the phones apps drawer. The whole app looked fantastic but that icon was awesome. You could not not notice it. Everybody else was using fashionable blues and greens that literally everybody uses.

mrtksn · 2 years ago
IMHO the imitation serves a function. Familiarity conveys a message associated with that familiarity, that is the nature of the brand(cheap or high quality, for young or for old etc) and the brands need to update their logos to convey the correct message as their customers churn(people grow up and then get old).

For example, if you are an expensive brand for people of age over 30 but under 50, 20 years later your 30y/o customer will be 50 and will drop out. Now you need to convey to the newly coming of age humans that your brand is expensive high quality one but they associate different styles and symbols with high quality than the previous generations and therefore you will need to re-design your logo to mach the new taste. If the new people don't associate the British royal symbolism with the stuff your brand stands for, you drop them and embrace contemporary symbolism, for example. Therefore, the source of the imitation is not really imitation but an attempt of different brands to capture the new symbolism.

In other words, If everyone drinks coffee in the morning it's not an imitation to serve coffee in the morning.

devilbunny · 2 years ago
The expensive brands sell accessories and shoes for that reason. You have to have a model figure to wear a Chanel dress or a Hugo Boss suit, but everyone can do a handbag or shoes.
binary132 · 2 years ago
The way you put this makes it sound like the process of design you described does not create the ecology you described, but it does. Why do you think "the youth" have different tastes? Fashion is constantly being dreamed up by influential brands, and they attempt to impose their vision of the future in such a way that it will become the new norm. This process doesn't just happen by itself. At the same time, outsider styles emerge and become popular by virtue of doing something different and catchy, it is a constant pursuit of holding the banner and commanding attention by many parties. Those who simply chase the style of the day will always be out of the loop because by the time they deliver it's already the past.
chiefalchemist · 2 years ago
True. But this effect isn't limited to design. How many cookie cutter / copy-cat businesses (i.e., apps) do we see? The origin of lack of (brand) identity is rooted in the companies themselves and their leadership.

The irony? Avoiding risk is itself a risk. The higher your chance of failure, the more significant this risk (from self-commodit-izing).

127361 · 2 years ago
Also maybe a symptom of chasing a quick profit in the short term over other considerations, such as product quality. So better play it safe so the valuation rises by the time the manager/designer/marketer has moved on to another company?
Turing_Machine · 2 years ago
Personally, I am sick unto death of bland sans serif fonts and flat, minimalist design, but I realize that's just my opinion.
bossyTeacher · 2 years ago
Your business is probably most interested in whether this new design increased value in some way. Did people open the app more?

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tcldr · 2 years ago
Q: Why do everyone’s logo fonts look the same?

A: Because they need to be legible on a mobile device.

It’s no coincidence this trend started in the 2010s with the arrival of the smartphone. Brands need a consistent look that work across mediums. With over 50% of e-commerce sales happening on mobile, and the dominance of social media in the marketing of, for example, high fashion, a brand mark must excel in these kinds of treatments. Perhaps we’ll find another design trick to facilitate legibility at smaller scales but until then, those marks that looked great in print, aren’t fit for purpose.

delta_p_delta_x · 2 years ago
Funnily enough, many phone displays have much higher pixel densities than notebook, desktop, and TV displays, and thus would have little problems rendering the serifs, ligatures, and other fancy bits of digital serif typefaces compared to the old 72/96 DPI displays from the late '90s and early 2000s.

Semi-unrelated rant: why do many entirely digital web typefaces have ink traps? They look terrible. On paper, they were meant to be filled in by overflowing ink and thus render the glyphs as intended, but they just look weird and bad on a high-resolution digital display.

tcldr · 2 years ago
I’m aware. But when you’re trying to set a tiny brand mark over a photo in the corner of some social media thumbnail, a screen’s fidelity is not the limiting factor, it’s the human eye.
shakow · 2 years ago
> why do many entirely digital web typefaces have ink traps?

Add it to the many things that made it from the necessary to the aesthetic.

Kwpolska · 2 years ago
The pixel density might have increased, but phone screens fit less information than desktop screens, so the logo can't take up as much space. The goal isn't good reproduction, but rather improving legibility and recognisability at small physical sizes.
dimmke · 2 years ago
I have written two blog posts that sort touch on this subject. The increase in screen pixel density has had a much larger impact on web design as a discipline than is commonly acknowledged.

https://daniel.do/article/making-noisy-svgs/ (I link to the second post in the first paragraph)

avereveard · 2 years ago
True about the definition, but portrait consumption remains a problem, the horizontal space on the header is much smaller, and many old school logos that worked on stores and websites would end up on two lines on mobiles.
ilumanty · 2 years ago
Serifs improve legibility of small prints. With modern HiDPI screens, there is no reason not to use serif fonts across all media.
tcldr · 2 years ago
Sure, a restricted subset of serifs and typically when you’re reading a run of text i.e body copy. But the typical neoclassical serifs used in high fashion (think the Vogue logo) with their hairline serifs will look awful scaled to the sizes needed on mobile – regardless of screen definition.
dannyw · 2 years ago
You generally have to cater to the lowest common denominator, like that $150 prepaid Android phone with a non-HiDPI screen.

Or someone on a 1336x720 Chromebook.

atoav · 2 years ago
But your corp very likely wants to look young and fresh and not like a very serious, but ultimately boring lawyer agency.

Serif fonts are still existant, with newspapers, lawyers, notaries and aimilar professions. Most modern corporations just don't want to go that direction, because this isn't how they want to be perceived.

lagt_t · 2 years ago
The very few actual studies revealed there is no difference in legibility between typefaces that differ only in the presence or absence of serifs.
bloopernova · 2 years ago
Thank you for putting into words something that's I've been wondering about.

Offtopic:

I switched from MPlus Code font to Iosevka just this week for my terminal, VSCode, and Emacs use. Partly due to finding Iosevka more pleasing, its support for ligatures, and liking its italics.

Looking at it now, MPlus is a little simpler while Iosevka has a bit more... Personality?

MPlus: https://www.programmingfonts.org/#mplus

Iosevka: https://www.programmingfonts.org/#iosevka

Iosevka has a few serif-like features that distinguish it from MPlus, and on the hidpi screens I use, it's easier on my aging eyesight.

Zekio · 2 years ago
Serif fonts read terribly on displays of basically any size and dpi, I don't even use them when reading books on e-ink displays
vitaflo · 2 years ago
It’s the same reason all UX Design went super flat. Flat geometric shapes and text are easier to display at various widths and size’s across a lot of different types of devices. Doing anything more complicated than colored in wireframes is too expensive to produce especially when time to market is important.

As a UX designer I hate this but that’s the reality of why every site has the same boring flat design.

Dalewyn · 2 years ago
Text is also going out of fashion because supporting multiple languages is expensive compared to just a single set of hieroglyphs for everyone everywhere in the world.
ghaff · 2 years ago
It started before then. My school switched from a rather elegant 19th century (I think) design to something more streamlined that I never really liked around 2000. But I don't really disagree in general. I know when my company did a rebrand, one of the drivers was that the old logo had a lot of fine detail. (It also had some aspects that you couldn't unsee once someone mentioned them and it basically got the company's name wrong--which still gets people confused to this day.)
loughnane · 2 years ago
The one that bums me out the most is the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. They went from an elegant serif font to a bland sans with a few funky tails.

Before: https://mir-s3-cdn-cf.behance.net/project_modules/disp/6a356...

After: https://creativereview.imgix.net/content/uploads/2022/09/MFA...

Their stated purpose was to make it more accessible. The reasoned that the neoclassical architecture and old-style font made the space intimidating to people who didn’t hold those things to be part of their culture and that it was out of tune with the increasing diversity of their collection and programs.

I think that’s the real trend here: change. Sans is so tempting because it hardly means anything and so designers will tell you it’s a blank canvas you can imbue with whatever values you want. If those values change, you don’t have to tear down your whole identity.

That’s deeply appealing for firms in the tech world considering the rapid change of pace. What’s disappointing to me is to see cultural institutions take the same defensive approach. A logo change is fine, but saying “we want to be accessible to everybody so we’ll strip out anything that ties us to a time, place, or tradition” is like trying to make a welcoming living room by replacing all the sofas, tables, and rugs with a milk crate and a metal foldout chair.

It doesn’t have to be that way. A few miles away the Boston Athenaeum did a rebrand with the same usual rhetoric on accessibility and diversity, but came through with a font that fits their tradition

Before: https://web.archive.org/web/20210126132351/https://bostonath...

After: https://bostonathenaeum.org/

lotsofpulp · 2 years ago
> Their stated purpose was to make it more accessible. The reasoned that the neoclassical architecture and old-style font made the space intimidating to people who didn’t hold those things to be part of their culture and that it was out of tune with the increasing diversity of their collection and programs.

Can put this under the dictionary definition of insanity. Or someone needed justification to get paid without doing any real work.

coldtea · 2 years ago
>The reasoned that the neoclassical architecture and old-style font made the space intimidating to people who didn’t hold those things to be part of their culture and that it was out of tune with the increasing diversity of their collection and programs.

The whole purpose of an actually inclusive "Museum of Fine Arts" should have been the opposite: to make people appreciate, understand, and enjoy things that they don't feel are "part of their culture", expand their cultural horizons and lift their tastes.

Not to excise things they don't identify with, and feed them "safe" stuff tailored to them. That's entertainment.

AlecSchueler · 2 years ago
I want to say it makes complete sense to me. It's well known that museums are seen as unappealing to many demographics and the image of association with elitism and colonialism plays a huge role in that. Changing the style choices of museum communications towards ones which are further dissociated from those issues seems like ab obvious first step towrads increasing the perception of inclusivity.

I would ask anyone who is labeling it as "insane" what their own background is how European it is before they dismiss efforts to appeal to groups with other histories, and often painful ones as they relate to European history.

AuryGlenz · 2 years ago
I would simply call it demeaning.
coldtea · 2 years ago
>They went from an elegant serif font to a bland sans with a few funky tails.

Wow, now it looks like a logo for a contruction company or something, in cheap suburban billboards...

blueridge · 2 years ago
Here's Erik Spiekermann on the Johnson & Johnson logo change:

"I’m so fed up with marketing people running projects without acknowledging that we designers might have an idea or two about what communicates and what doesn’t. They’ve been told by tech guys and lazy designers that things have to be simplified to work on screens. This is knowledge from the 90s and not true anymore. Risk and guts have been replaced by bullshit “narratives” invented by people who’ve never taken a risk in their lives.

This is the blandification of our world, where fun has to be taken out of the equation because it cannot be quantified. No consumer cares about a company’s internal reorganization, they want to like a brand. When all brands are beige, the beigest one will not win but will be forgotten.

The enshittification of our world is run by people who read spreadsheets in bed and look at their smartphones to tell the weather instead of sticking their heads out of the window.

Sometimes I’m glad I’m old and don’t have to take orders from gutless employed managers anymore. My best clients were those I could argue with. It wasn’t about winning or being right, it was about doing the best work.

Thank you Audi, Deutsche Bahn, BVG, Bosch, Ottobock, The Economist …"

crazygringo · 2 years ago
I dunno... to me, the old MFA Boston logo screams 1990's or maybe late 1980's, when Helvetica Condensed was everywhere. It's the bland, boring, generic of its time. It makes me thing of a boring field trip I'm being forced to go on.

While the new logo feels very 2020's. Like they're trying to be contemporary, and actually make an effort to connect the art they show to people today, not to those people's parents. It looks like a place with a thought-provoking exhibition I might want to take a date to.

So I'm definitely going with the new logo.

JCharante · 2 years ago
Wow I haven't been to the MFA in a while but have good memories there. The new logo is absolutely abhorrent.
Spooky23 · 2 years ago
That’s just some bunk the agency makes up when selling the pre-made brand kit.
loughnane · 2 years ago
That’s for sure a part of the story.
quirino · 2 years ago
There's this great blog for Logo changes:

https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/

You have to subscribe to read the articles now, but just looking at the thumbnails is fun enough

merelysounds · 2 years ago
Thanks for sharing.

Browsing the before&after tag was especially enjoying: https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/categor...

I found a nice counter example to the trend presented in the article: https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_log...

pzmarzly · 2 years ago
Wow, thanks for that. I had no idea that e.g. Deezer got rid of their iconic logo https://www.underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/new_log...
astrolx · 2 years ago
Yeah, very recently. I am still very confused trying to find the Deezer tab on my browser with the new logo as favicon!
adhesive_wombat · 2 years ago
Meanwhile Reddit gave their new icon a neckbeard! Talk about embracing community history!
adhesive_wombat · 2 years ago
I love that I can't tell if the Adobe sponsored content a couple of paragraphs in is an exhibit, or just coincidence, because it's a perfect example of the phenomenon.
dustedcodes · 2 years ago
I've noticed this loss of creativity and personality before. It's very noticeably in building architecture. Now it's taken over web architecture. All websites and logos starting to look the same-ish.
mglz · 2 years ago
> It's very noticeably in building architecture.

My bad take: Modern architecture ugliness comes from architects using CAD with insufficient proficiency to create complex designs. Result: Mossty cubes and grids, with some advanced users adding fillets.

marklubi · 2 years ago
Back in the 80's, my dad invested tons of money into a top of the line computer (a 386), plotter, software, and training, when CAD was first a thing.

He did one project with it and roundfiled the whole thing because there was no art involved. He had become an architect specializing in high end custom homes because of the creativity involved. CAD killed that aspect.

taneq · 2 years ago
Just wait til the next generation come in, who've grown up designing widgetes for 3D printing. Weird procedural geometry, swoopy curves and crazy patterns galore! :D
a1o · 2 years ago
I don't think you are too wrong about it, the tools we use do shape the norm of we make with them

Dead Comment

lotsofpulp · 2 years ago
Building architecture is subject to physics, building code laws, and big differences in cost (measured in the hundreds of thousands of dollars or more).

I do not see why the same dynamics would apply to a logo/font, which surely have very little cost difference between any two.

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crtified · 2 years ago
The majority of designers use the same few software packages (a truism of most digital fields), with the same range of functions and parameters, the same trends, all reading the same internet articles, subscribed to the same creative influencers, and being churned out of the same college courses, where they all got taught out of the same text books.

It's increased homogenisation at every level.

crtified · 2 years ago
I'll reply to my own [now un-editable] comment to add, by way of balance to that comments somewhat cynical take, that some of the ubiquitous tools and techniques I mentioned have enabled a great many people to participate in these activities, who might otherwise not. The pros and cons of that too are debatable, however I certainly think we can all see some positives in the principle of technology enabling people.
passwordoops · 2 years ago
There's been much virtual ink and video play time discussing the phenomenon. Just do a search "why are designs so boring?"

My personal slant pins it on the cult of minimalism. I realized we were effed when Lufthansa went with their incredibly dull and depressing livery. Most people in the planespotting world disliked it (1), while designers were falling over themselves gushing about the elegance, clarity and simplicity of the brand (2). My UX designer even used them as an example to emulate (we disagreed on many things).

Also, designers, like most people, are inherently uncreative. A new trend will start, and people will follow. Just look at how every AI project has been trying to shoehorn "Q" into their names these past couple of weeks. Or how everything "smart" had to have a lower-case "i" in front of the brand for a long while. I'm starting to see the backlash against minimalism more frequently, hopefully it'll hit design schools soon and the next home run brand will move away from extremist minimalism

(1) https://thepointsguy.com/2018/02/lufthansa-new-livery-boring...

(2) https://www.adelahaye.com/blog/2020/2/11/feeling-blue-luftha...

Xenoamorphous · 2 years ago
> Also, designers, like most people, are inherently uncreative

99% of the time the designer has to do what the client instructs them to do. And in most cases, they will simply point to some recent change by the competition.

Also everybody will have an opinion about a design.

dun44 · 2 years ago
Hopefully AI will make those uncreative designers redundant, freeing them to do something more aligned with their talents.
passwordoops · 2 years ago
That's way too hopeful. AI is not creative, it's a tool that gives you what it calculates to be the best solution which is taken from the space of all pre-existing solutions. So if anything it will double down on the lack of creativity and keep showing whatever worked before referring us down a cycle of dull, but very machine-predictable mediocrity.

AI is not the solution for making things more creative.

gwern · 2 years ago
AI will need to get much better, unfortunately, for that to happen. And AI will trigger even more minimalism in the short run.

This is because minimalism encourages extremely precise, exact abstracted designs where a single pixel being wrong is visible. While generative AI always has, and will indefinitely, be best at a profusion of exuberant detail where errors or repetition are concealed by the density. You can generate great photographic images or montages right now with MJ or DALL-E 3, but you will struggle to get anything which is a crisp sharp vector. Even vector-generating services like Recraft.ai aren't that good. (Note also how long it took generative AI to be able to do pixel art. We were trivially generating photorealistic faces while pixel art GANs weren't working at all.)

So, as a reaction to generative AI, designers & fashion will flee to minimalism in order to not look 'cheap'.

The vector art & typography will be a proof-of-work that a human made it and a costly signal of 'quality'. While anything photographic or painting-like, especially if presented as a single large raster image, will increasingly feel untrustworthy, cheap, and mass-produced.

127361 · 2 years ago
Some of the AI art I've been browsing is far better than many human artists could create, it totally lacks the blandness and dumb trend-following of human creators.
belugacat · 2 years ago
commercial design needs to hit a set of 2 contradictory goals:

1) be as boring as possible so people can make sense of it quickly and efficiently in a world where there are countless other things competing for your time and attention

2) standout as much as possible to gain your attention in the aforementioned busy world

IME this explains a lot the nature of trends that design experiences.

fireflash38 · 2 years ago
In a way, it reminds me of flag designs. You can be creative with minimal color choice and patterns (Arizona), or you can be a riot of pattern and color (Maryland). Just don't be the same as everyone else (seal on blue field).

Reason I bring this up is the Southwest flag livery - which the MD one in particular really stands out.