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Posted by u/needadvicebadly 2 years ago
Ask HN: How do I start over at 37?
Quick background: Grew up in an immigrant household with very little in the way of resources, guidance, encouragement. Was enamored by Silicon Valley and tech from a young age, but foolishly followed the family tradition of medicine despite hating it as I felt I had no choice. Went to medical school, dropped out, worked a few odd end gigs for the next couple years, stumbled into a PM role that I was let go from due to performance.

I am now 37 without an impressive educational or professional background, no network of colleagues, no mastery in any one skill, and a whole lot of mental health debt. And yet the child inside of me still wants to pursue the scrappy Silicon Valley tech dream.

Am I deluded? Where do I even begin?

oppositelock · 2 years ago
If you have the means, get a computer science degree at a reasonable school, and don't listen to people telling it's too late, and that ML is your meal ticket. We have two kinds of jobs here in the valley, the glamorous and competitive, and the really challenging and necessary. The latter are more immune to hype cycles and economic downturns. If you do something along the lines of networking/security, cloud infrastructure, and learn something that confuses other people, say, how to use OAuth2 properly as an example, you will be able to work on the infra side in almost any company. Once you get your foot in the door, then you can learn the latest hottest fad wherever it is that you are, on the job. Infrastructure is the computer industry version of cleaning out the stables for the horses, but it's also necessary everywhere and once you prove yourself and show you are capable of learning on the job, you can work on other stuff. If you start to enjoy infra stuff, you can work anywhere. Don't get stuck doing any kind of process though, don't be the compliance guy, for example.

The biggest shortage in silicon valley is that of capable minds and hands. It's on you to make yourself marketable, but once that's done, there's tons of opportunity. I've been working here since 1996. I'm a grey haired old timer now, and I've seen this industry from big companies, startups, boring companies, and fad companies. Get your foot in the door, the first job won't be glorious, but as you demonstrate skill, pay and rank will follow. Don't go to any of the companies staffed by lots of startup bros, because a wrinkle or some greying hair is a disadvantage there, but there are plenty of other places to start.

appplication · 2 years ago
This, but do your CS degree online and also do a MS rather than an undergrad. Despite what you might think you need essentially no prior coding experience to enroll and complete most MS programs (though you may be conditionally admitted and need remedials). And any school will do for MS, there is no such thing as a prestigious masters degree. Anyone hunting academic prestige beyond undergrad just gets a doctorate.
thelastparadise · 2 years ago
Not sure what a CS degree is supposed to help with if this guy wants to pursue the "scrappy SV tech startup" world.

He shouldn't be wasting time learning from professors who have never done anything real and have lived in an academic insulated bubble for decades.

Instead he should be building and shipping product after product until something sticks. And spending just as much time on marketing as development, and putting a lot of time and energy into hiring out and training a team to scale up to the next stage.

oppositelock · 2 years ago
The degree itself is unimportant, but there are important skills that a CS program teaches, which you can teach yourself, but that degree makes getting interviews a lot easier. Like I said, I've been doing this for a very long time, and worked with many hiring processes.A person without either experience or a recognized degree has a very difficult time getting their foot in the door. I may have misread and thought that the OP was interested in engineering.

For PM's, or management, the skill set and showing that you have it will be different.

wizzerking · 2 years ago
I am a 68 year old child of a navy family. Mostly far east, all over the USA, and some Europe.My advice from my life is combine your uniqueness into a single unit. Take your background and create an opensource project that can be done quickly 2 - 3 months max and after that is done use that to promote yourself if you want to be a developer/software engineer. If you are into DevOps or DevSecOps do challenges. Pursue what interests you. When Tensorflow and Pytorch were open sourced I started learning by reading Abstracts and posting those articles that interested me and provided code, to encourage more authors to provide code. Now there is paperswithCode, Neurohive and other such sites, but I still learn, and lots of public GitHub and GitLab repo's

Take what is unique about you, what interests you and

badpun · 2 years ago
Please don't do a quick open source project for the sake of padding one's resume. The world is full of crap software as it is. Such software shows up in people's google searches, takes time to try out, and the user will inevitably find out that it's garbage (you can't do anything good in 2-3 months that wasn't done before if you're just learning) and not use it - but not before they wasted time to research it. Multiply it by say 10k users and you've done some serious harm in the world.

The way to go here is to absolutely code something, but not to pretend that it's a worthwhile project (e.g. don't release it under open source licence). If you put the code in a public repo somewhere so that interviers can see it, clearly state that it's just a learning excercise.

amerkhalid · 2 years ago
> Multiply it by say 10k users and you've done some serious harm in the world.

I would disagree.

While resume driven open source projects are indeed painful to sift through, you have no idea where these projects may lead to. We should not discourage people especially new devs from contributing. It should be upon experienced devs to learn how to quickly identify code that is worth exploring in more details. Like a year old project with no recent commits, maybe not worth looking further.

dpbriggs · 2 years ago
What about projects people made for fun and put it online because they're proud of it?

It's also common advice to put your portfolio online. They really don't show up in internet searches as far I've seen.

holografix · 2 years ago
What do you mean by scrappy Silicon Valley tech dream?

I think you’re 5-10 years late unless you turn yourself into a GenAI/Machine Learning specialist very quickly. The Bay Area has attracted the worst type of people to compete with. It’s packed full of gold miners and even more shovel sellers. Try somewhere else.

Do you have any money? Are you technically savvy? Can you take a 12 months course from a reputable institution that may award you a ML qualification?

Turn your age and background into a strength. You’re mature, dependable, hungry, professional. You show up, you get it, you can relate with the middle age hiring manager. You need a chance and you won’t waste it like some 25 year old jib hopping. You’re willing to work for a little less but not much less.

mplewis · 2 years ago
ML is a boom/bust industry and it’s a current fad. I recommend looking for infra work instead — plumbing is always in style.
aristofun · 2 years ago
I have a friend who in her 30s being a single mother of 2 kids and working as a doctor surgeon, but living in a shitty conditions in a shitty city in russia - made her way to being a well paid software engineer living in California.

She started with some courses, bootcamps (one of which was created by me - this is how i know her), some first shitty jobs and gigs and gradually built herself from there.

Within ~5 years.

Despite some arrogant naysayers suggesting her getting a CS degree first or chose different path at all.

Cypher · 2 years ago
I'm lost too although in 40s and stuck in dead end job that has basically meant I've stagnated for 15 years while all my peers have 2-3x me. I'm left behind and fear it's too late with the current economic climate.
nytesky · 2 years ago
Similar boat, but more that the industry I’m in has low pay, so even with advancing career I don’t make much.

But I do have work life balance which has been valuable for my family, and a series of health crisis that I weathered over the last decade. Hopefully your dead end job has stability and gives you some other solace?

I would focus on a side gig, building a portfolio project in something that interests you and maybe eventually could be used as a business or to showcase your skills in applying for a job. Getting time for that can be a challenge with existing job and other life demands, but then you have to realize that just hopping onto the Bay Area tech scene would likely have required a similar grind so maybe it wasn’t all that for you?

illegalsmile · 2 years ago
Same here. Do I go back for a MS in CS or something else? Seems unlikely especially having taken a number of graduate courses. I'm a general systems engineer so I've thought about drilling down into specifics like Microsoft cloud architecture, or AI/ML architecture, or even authentication and gaining certificates to switch jobs. Then I think about starting an IT consulting business that would hire remote workers only and feel overwhelmed by that prospect. Part of me wants to get out altogether and start a pizza joint. Lots of options, too many.

If I wanted to I could probably stay at the same company for the next 20 years and retire but that sounds uninspiring and ultimately quite depressing. Two years ago was the time to do something but now is OK too. In another two years I will look back thinking "why didn't I make a move then?"

I know the feel, wish I had something better than my own story for you!

Lmoper · 2 years ago
I’m speaking to myself more than to you (I am in the same boat): invest in yourself, not your job.
throwaway19423 · 2 years ago
Same here. What sort of work do you do? I feel like I need a support group.
throwaway19423 · 2 years ago
I'm a decade older than you, have a PhD, in corporate research doing AI and feel EXACTLY the same way.

Early on, I had multiple opportunities to make a life in the Bay area. I stupidly did not take those opportunities.

My coding skills are no longer competitive and I am competing (and getting out-gunned) at the highest level.

Some of the suggestions here to build something you care about feel to ring true. I am also mulling this. It is hard to make time for this later in life but I feel there is no other way. I am also mulling taking a big pay cut and relocate the family to the Bay area. It feels very risky but I feel I won't be able to live with myself.

mgl · 2 years ago
Hi mate,

Life is long and we can restart our journey at any time, so no worries.

The best advice I could give is to start meeting people and (always!) learn new things.

Action on you: go to meetup.com, find three interesting events in your area, go there with no expectations, just listen and meet new people.

You are smart. You will work it out.

needadvicebadly · 2 years ago
How do I realistically compete with those who are younger, more nimble, with impressive educational & professional backgrounds? The startup world seems to be far more of a status game nowadays than when I fell in love with it 15 years ago. What does someone with 0 social capital to open doors do, especially at this age?
james-revisoai · 2 years ago
Show genuine interest in a project, be better at meeting deadlines (by overestimating) than others, show social skills most in tech are weaker at.

There are many edges you can have compared to most tech folk. Why not try using ChatGPT to begin some python and html coding and make some things you can get excited about when showing people?

You don't need social capital for a more entry type role, so don't overthink this

Clubber · 2 years ago
>How do I realistically compete with those who are younger, more nimble, with impressive educational & professional backgrounds?

Most devs out there right now are hot garbage, even with 10+ years experience and a degree. I just went through a few rounds of interviewing applicants, so I know. If you are passionate about it, you need to be building stuff in your spare time and learning constantly. If you don't like it that much, the field probably isn't for you.

If you are really starting from scratch, hit up the recruiting/job sites in your area and learn the language that has the most jobs. You need to learn database too.

comprev · 2 years ago
The simple answer is you don't. Be realistic about who the competition is and which jobs to aim for.

When reaching for the moon try reaching the top shelf first, and use that to stand on.

lizardking · 2 years ago
If you are genuinely committed to landing a job in Silicon Valley, you may need to start somewhere else and truly exceed expectations. Would working for a tech company in the midwest be better or worse than your current situation? If it would be better then why not try that first?

From there I would suggest the following:

  - If your craft isn't already your main hobby, turn it into your main hobby.

  - Network as much as you can. Meetup.com is very useful for this purpose.

  - Use your network to find a mentor. Someone knowledgeable who has achieved what you're aiming for and is willing to help you.
Many people in tech do the bare minimum and still manage to build impressive careers. If you excel at your job, are passionate about your craft, and can construct a compelling narrative to market yourself to employers, you'll be ahead of most of the competition. Most of the competition never makes it to sv, but if you are ahead of them then you're moving in the right direction.

And so what if you fall short and end up in Cincinnati, able to afford a comfortable life? Would that really be so bad?