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sigabrter · 2 years ago
Clicked on this because a friend of mine from high school died while free soloing, and was shocked to see the article is about him! Good dude. Miss that guy. Still think about him often. It was really nice to get to learn about some parts of his life I hadn’t known about.
throwaway22032 · 2 years ago
The thing that I fundamentally don't understand about free soloing is that it's only skill based to a point.

You will eventually, as in the article, hit a loose hold and fall. When that happens you probably die and it wasn't due to anything you could have prevented.

willbudd · 2 years ago
I feel like you and all the people replying to you are completely missing the obvious. To someone who has been depressed for many years, for someone who literally (according the article) contemplated jumping of the roof of a 10 story building, "probably dying at some point" is not a deal-breaker or even all that much of a downside per se.

We're all going to die at some point, and while most/many of us might want to delay that inevitability as much as possible, I don't think it's warranted at all to assume that the same premise applies to every single one of us. This guy realized that the only thing in life he could truly enjoy was climbing rocks. Do we really need to fault him for deciding to then just do that thing until fate eventually catches up as it always does?

Sure, it may be rough on the people whose lives they intersect with, but provided they're not a parent raising a child/children/etc, acceptance of one another for who we are is all that remains. Personally, I'd take short-lived good company over long-lived mediocre company any day.

ke88y · 2 years ago
> is not a deal-breaker or even all that much of a downside per se.

Close, but I don't think you quite get it yet.

It's not about "no downside"! That completely misunderstands. It's about a HUGE upside. It dials in your mental space and all the negative thoughts flood away. You're present in the moment. It's like being on a hard drug, but you feel clean and clear-headed instead of hung over afterward. You feel a lot better about life for days or even weeks at a time. You do it because NOT doing it might just kill you. Free solo today, or shoot yourself in the back of your car at the firepit tonight. And it's not about the risk, and it's not adernaline. It's the focus and calm. Does that make sense? I think it's really hard to understand if you haven't experienced suicidal thoughts for most of your life.

I haven't talked to very many free soloists who haven't made the point that they're horrendously depressed/suicidal and that they do it to live, not to die. Sometimes. Normally the ones who do "quite safe soloing" -- way below their grade, on well-known routes, etc. etc.

The article isn't just about Austin. It's about a lot of people. And not just climbers. Similar dark shit in skiing, mountaineering, dirt biking, and so on.

> Personally, I'd take short-lived good company over long-lived mediocre company any day.

I've never met an irresponsible soloist who wasn't a beautiful soul.

brutusborn · 2 years ago
This rings true to me. I improved my surfing most at a point in my life where drowning didn’t really worry me. Not because it was less likely, but because I was at a point where I didn’t care much if I died.

It meant I dropped in on waves well beyond my skill level. I had lots of near misses but learnt heaps from the ones I caught.

I’m thankful I no longer feel that way, I want to stick around for those around me. Now I’m content on smaller waves and take a lot less risks in all aspects of life.

zarzavat · 2 years ago
Unless you are Japanese, that’s probably not the prevailing culture. For the vast majority of people suicide is seen as a mental illness that should be treated, potentially by force, not as an individual choice. Because a person suffering from mental illness by definition does not have full agency over their decisions. Even the idea of allowing suicide for terminally ill people is controversial (although it’s something I personally support).

In the past, suicide was viewed as immoral and criminal. We have moved past that, not because suicide is more socially acceptable, but because of a desire to more easily help people suffering from mental illness.

tomxor · 2 years ago
> You will eventually, as in the article, hit a loose hold and fall.

It's not that simple, it's not a pure dice roll because not all routes are equal. It depends how hard the route is, what type of rock, what quality of rock, what type of holds, what style of route, whether the route allows you to climb with redundancy or not, the weather conditions, the time of year... and finally you, the subjective component, how well you fit all of those variables.

Granted I don't free solo 7a like this guy did, but I've soloed physically difficult but super solid, safe feeling routes, super easy but fragile, dangerous routes, and super easy, solid but crazy exposed mind fuck routes. I've been rained on, had a bird jump out of a pocket, had base jumpers surprise me, come across friends on route (unavoidably distracting), come across broken holds etc. All curve balls but I had plenty of room to accommodate because of my choices to climb with margins and contingency. Every route requires a different approach, not all routes are a good idea to solo for me, and not all routes are a good idea to solo period.

The point I'm making is that It's possible to regularly partake in this style of climbing with a high probability living to a ripe old age. I believe the majority of people free soloing are trad climbers like me who free solo well under their grade, because it can be considered a subset of trad, and it's good for the mental fitness of harder trad routes and benefits from all of the nuance of the careful and considerate mode which is part of trad climbing. Only people who are pushing the limit, and their own limit when free soloing make the headlines. This guy appeared to be pushing himself to his limit, but on the flip side maybe this was worth the trade for him, non-climbers wont get this but it can be an incredibly rewarding part of your life, there's a risk to every style not just free soloing and we all accept that risk every time we get on a route. You accept a risk every time you get in a car, but you still get in a car, they are just on different levels of risk reward, what you are willing to accept for what type of reward is entirely subjective so please don't judge others if they are happy doing what they are doing and understand the risk.

ke88y · 2 years ago
> because it can be considered a subset of trad

Yeah, this 100%. Also a very natural extension of high balling.

Have you done any stupid soloing? Did it happen when you were having a particularly hard time with your mental health? Because I think that's really common and we should talk about "soloing as a sort of suicidal release that hopefully doesn't end in death" issue...

aidenn0 · 2 years ago
> ...non-climbers wont get this but it can be an incredibly rewarding part of your life, there's a risk to every style not just free soloing and we all accept that risk every time we get on a route.

I'm not a climber, but I get it. However, I have met people who are incapable of thinking about risk at all. As in, if you manged to convince them they were risking their lives driving, they would not be able to drive ever again. For them, ignoring everyday risks is an essential part of navigating life.

ke88y · 2 years ago
There are varying degrees of truth to what you say, but the real point is about how risk management and mental health interact.

Reasons that free soloing isn't necessarily suicidal-tendency levels of poor risk management:

1. Do Not Fall zones aren't unique to free soloing. This is also true for ALL ice climbing, but also for a lot of trad and aid climbing. And even in some cases for sport climbing and bouldering. In fact, free soloing is -- for many practitioners -- a natural extension of the run-outs found on sparsely protected lines. I've taken more risks with my life on the sharp end than out alone. I think that's probably true for most climbers. And the closest I've come to death was a stupid trundling mistake on a to-be-developed sport climb.

2. Life is dangerous. Free soloing a juggy ledge-strwen route below 5.5 definitely feels WAY, WAY less dangerous than the drive home. For example. You are more likely to die on the drive home. More to the point -- you are more likely to die on rappel or from rock fall.

3. Free soloing routes that I know up to 5.6 is no more dangerous -- for me -- than hiking on an exposed trail. And in some cases feels way safer than climbing with a rope and gear (see #1; also, climbs at that grade rarely have clean falls). I suspect that for me free soloing up to 5.9 is probably less dangerous than mountain biking or most skiing.

That said, the sort of soloing Austin was doing is definitely of the riskier "fuck that" variety. Oh, and dangerous soloing is definitely correlated with mental health events. The trope of guys doing a ton of free soloing after bad breakups exists for a reason.

Anyways. This is a hard topic to talk about -- especially online -- because "the first rule of free soloing club is...". So you don't have the usual "first hand experience" vs "hypothetically thinking about this" split. IMO it's time to be a bit more open about it, particularly given the mental health thing. I spent a lot of time free soloing. Some of it was dangerous, but some of it was probably no less irresponsible than driving late at night or skiing a bit to aggressively on a groomer. The dangerous stuff happened when I was in a bad place. Let's talk about that more. That's why I appreciated this piece.

fingerlocks · 2 years ago
> because "the first rule of free soloing club is..."

…telling everyone that you’re a free soloist?

Any busy weekend you can spot some conspicuous soloists on Cathedral in Tuolomne, Corner Crack in Squamish, or GNS at Index.

Maybe the few “hard” soloists are incognito, but the vast majority are regular 5.11-ish climbers that want to show off their confidence on a slabby 5.7 jug haul in front of a bunch of new climbers.

iambateman · 2 years ago
I generally agree with you, but I do want to point out that the same could be said for deep sea diving, nascar, jumping out of a plane, flying in a plane at all, going to space, running drugs across a border, and telling your mother-in-law what you really think.

Some humans seem to have a different kind of risk tolerance than you and I do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

jacurtis · 2 years ago
I know it is semantics, but the activities you listed are all very different than free soloing. I'm not trying to pull a "no true Scotsman" here, they are genuinely much different.

What you list are activities that have risk. But in all of these activities there are considerations to implement safety to preserve the participant as much as possible. Most of these activities the participants have multiple layers of safety in case something happens in order to minimize the risk. Sky diving, Nascar, Plane Flying, Space exploration, deep sea diving, all prepare for the worst and implement safeguards to minimize it. The risk is continually minimized.

Of the activities you list, trad-climbing/sport-climbing would be the free-solo equivalent. This the relatively safe method of rock climbing that most people participate in. There is still risk and people still die. But you can make mistakes and the safeguards generally protect you from death.

Free soloing is a level above that. In free soloing, the risk of imminent death is a feature, not a bug. It is embraced as the core of the activity. The only comparable activity equivalent I can think of to Free Soloing is wing suit base jumping, although even that is often done with backup safety systems, so it still puts it a tiny step ahead.

In other words, you could think of all those activities as something people choose to do DESPITE the risks, but free soloing is done BECAUSE of the risks. That makes it very different from other adventure activities.

It's also worth noting that the last two examples (drug running and coming clean to your mother-in-law) are just a matter of necessity and survival. While there's technically choice in both activities, it is only done as a last resort despite the risks, which put those into a 3rd category. They are usually involuntary activities.

ke88y · 2 years ago
> for deep sea diving

FWIW, I have literally never heard of a rock guide or mountain guide free soloing with a paying client...

mock-possum · 2 years ago
Not really a great comparison, because none of the danger in those other cases could be trivially negated with a sturdy rope.

Lead climbing is plenty dangerous, but the danger is mitigated as a feature of the practice itself - you get ‘save points’ to literally fall back in case you fail. Free soloing chooses not to take advantage of this safety measure.

It’s be like saying “race car driving is inherently dangerous” while refusing to wear a seat belt and helmet. The no, safety gear exists and has been extensively developed over decades of practice - you are simply refusing to avail yourself of it.

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kdmccormick · 2 years ago
It takes extreme skill to maneuver yourself right and hold yourself on the walls he was climbing, even if every hold is sturdy (which they typically are).

It also takes skill to look at rock and have an understanding of how likely it is to be safe to put your weight on. And it takes skill to repeatedly do climbs with a rope to get to the point where you're comfortable doing them unprptected.

Finally, it takes skill to hold yourself on the wall with 1-3 of your other limbs in the event that one of the holds gives away or your hand slips (the latter of which does happen plenty often).

If it weren't skill-based, you'd see random daredevil freaks freesoloing all the time. It just wouldn't be interesting. It'd be like, "Man climbs tall unsteady ladders regularly!" No, what these guys are doing is both insane but also insanely impressive.

throwaway22032 · 2 years ago
I edited my post to clarify that I don't mean that there's zero skill involved, of course I didn't mean that.

Just that when it goes wrong, you're just screwed.

paulcole · 2 years ago
> You will eventually … die and it wasn't due to anything you could have prevented

Everybody else replying to you is talking about how it’s the same in any extreme sport. The truth is it’s the same for you and me, too. Don’t you want to live doing the things that you want, knowing that no matter what you’re going to die in the end anyway?

activiation · 2 years ago
Many do it with a rope first and memorize everything
fwlr · 2 years ago
It’s the same as any other extreme sport - skill reduces risk but cannot fully eliminate it. Eventually a skydiver’s parachute will fail in a way they couldn’t have prevented, etc.
pbhjpbhj · 2 years ago
Skydivers carry reserves though, free-soloists eschew safety equipment.
douglee650 · 2 years ago
It's fatalistic by nature; then media every once in a while can publish these types of navel gazes. In return, the climber gets attention in life and in death.
hutzlibu · 2 years ago
Not necessarily. With experience you can tell what weight rocks will hold. And if you climb safe, you don't risk a jump towards a hold that might break (those guys did risk it).

But accidents and misstakes happen. But they totally can happen when you use a rope as well! A rope can even give you a false sense of security (if you don't know what you are doing).

When you climb free solo - you know everything is on you. One big misstake and it is over.

It is a very intense experience, I used to do it in easy territory and I loved it. But now with kids, there is just too much risk. Because yes, it is way more dangerous. But it is only a certain path to death, if you push your luck.

kingkongjaffa · 2 years ago
> With experience you can tell what weight rocks will hold.

As a climber, this is total hubris.

BaseballPhysics · 2 years ago
Really fantastic piece that explores the life of a free solo climber without straying too far into hero worship. I've long been troubled by other pieces on this corner of climbing as they always felt a little too approving, a little too encouraging of such a dangerous practice, but this one manages to avoid that trap.
hotpotamus · 2 years ago
It reminded me of the story of a famous (within that community) Appalachian Trail through-hiker who went by the name "Baltimore Jack" (from the Springstein lyric, "had a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack. I went out for a ride and I never went back.) that I read some time ago. He had abandoned his family to essentially live on the trail and eventually died there, seemingly of exposure. I googled it and it's from the same publication, so I'm sensing a theme.
mauvehaus · 2 years ago
I met Baltimore Jack in the Smokies in 2010 and crossed paths with him a few more times between there and Hanover. I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

With the limits that come of only seeing him a few times on the trail, I'd like to suggest that he clearly had an unhealthy relationship with alcohol and probably had some other demons.

With that said, he was also a kind soul and the conscience of the hiker community. He was unafraid to say something to people acting in a way that was detrimental to the community at large. He encouraged other hikers and shared freely of what he had be that knowledge or food.

Because of all of that, there was a certain amount of hero worship around him. He was a much loved character. But I get the sense that Baltimore Jack was a bit of a character, and assuming that role let him avoid some of the other things in his life that he might've lived longer had he addressed them.

sneak · 2 years ago
Is it a trap if the only danger is to the climber themselves?

If our lives are not our own to use or risk as we choose, then to whom do they actually belong?

AuryGlenz · 2 years ago
Would you feel the same way about a bulimic/anorexic person? What about someone that’s addicted to opioids?
Ntrails · 2 years ago
> Is it a trap if the only danger is to the climber themselves?

This tends to be untrue. Often when there are accidents pr tragedies, several people go to great lengths and risk their own lives in attempting to help.

I am largely pro the right to free solo, but the ability to claim "it just affects me" feels like a lie. Plus now I am reminded of a Dan le Sac song. Anyway.

dsauerbrun · 2 years ago
if I'm on a route and a free solo climber passes me my first thought is "he better not fall and land on me"
aynyc · 2 years ago
I positioned my right foot on the chip, took a breath, and reached around for a good side pull. As I grabbed it, the cobbles smooth beneath my fingers, I imagined, just for a second, what would happen if I released the tension in my core. That’s all it would take for my foot to wiggle a millimeter to the side and skate off that chip. I’d plummet more than a hundred feet to the ground. I cleared my head, pulled through the move, and stood up onto the face, now in more secure territory. I listened to my heartbeat. I calmed my breath. I closed my eyes. A few minutes later, I scampered over the top of the cliff.

I know the author and Austin have their demons. I just want to point out as someone who has solo that route, and know quite a few people who have done that as well, none of us ever thought about that. I dislike the way social media portrait free soloing, because like twitter, it's impossible to describe Hemingway in 280 characters.

Best wish for those who are suffering, and I hope they can find ways to survive and even heal before it's too late.

asah · 2 years ago
So why do you solo? Honest question.
aynyc · 2 years ago
I didn't solo at my limit. The routes were easy, below my standard, and well known by me. The possibilities of so low that I just didn't think I would fall. I was good enough and confident enough that I want to experience freedom. During the solos, I didn't feel anything, it was mechanical, pure physical movements. I didn't have heightened sense or anything like that. In fact, it was less "arousal" than if I have rope and trying my absolute hardest on other routes. I also didn't have selfies or anything that would even prove I was there. But after the climbs, there was a sense of fulfillment, a quiet confidence and pride that simply make me happy. I didn't tell many people about my soloing because I did it for myself.

Many of my partners/mentors have done bigger solos. All of the solos were done in quiet manner, and generally on less traffic routes or days. They weren't searching for meaning of life or next high. They simply want to climb quietly and competently and come home without any drama.

I stopped soloing because I find it hard to take the next step, which is to solo harder and harder grades. I didn't like the way it made me feel. It became chasing glory rather than self expression.

dsauerbrun · 2 years ago
I don't solo regularly but I have soloed a few things(5.6 is the hardest I've soloed if you're familiar with climbing grades).

my answer to this is basically once you've gotten to a certain level in climbing, some of the lower levels feel effortless and it doesn't actually feel risky. As an aside, roping up for some of that easier stuff wouldn't be worth it because it would just take too long.

Take walking up stairs, that feels incredibly easy and risk free to your average person but if you slip and fall down a flight of stairs you will most likely get pretty badly injured or potentially die... but no one puts on a rope to go up stairs because the risk level is so low even if the consequence level is very high.

that's how I feel about soloing and I suspect its how many others feel about it too.

fwiw, climbing hard stuff on a rope is way more fun for me than easy stuff without one but to each their own

animal_spirits · 2 years ago
> That if you can’t find enough of the peace and mindfulness you need with a rope on, you’ll never find enough of it without it.

An amazing piece of wisdom to take from the article.

jrm4 · 2 years ago
Obviously "it's a free country" and whatnot in terms of what you do and what you like to admire, but I can't seem to muster any respect or admiration for this sort of thing whatsoever. I see nothing here but potentially, literally, wasting your life.
paulcole · 2 years ago
Hate to break it to you, but in someone’s perspective everyone’s wasting their lives. Like I think you’re probably wasting your life. Do you care? I hope not!

How many people in the world really truly care if you admire or respect them? Maybe a dozen or so?

jrm4 · 2 years ago
Oh come on, you HAVE to know I don't mean metaphorical "wasting time."

I mean literally dying for a stupid reason.

gerbilly · 2 years ago
> I see nothing here but potentially, literally, wasting your life.

Funnily enough, I wondered the other day whether all the time I spent sitting in a chair having petty arguments with a computer (aka.programming) to have been a waste of my life as well.

FpUser · 2 years ago
I do not think they give a flying fuck about being respected by people who are not in a circle.
jrm4 · 2 years ago
Nor do I much about them, but I suppose the "meta" issue is:

Why should ANYONE remotely glorify this AT ALL? It's just stupid.

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ajhurliman · 2 years ago
Agreed. It’s literally suicide with extra steps, I don’t understand folks’ permissive attitude about such an unnecessarily dangerous activity.
hindsightbias · 2 years ago
Niche sports are fine, and the losses are probably super low. These are usually highly skilled athletes - and they’d probably be the first to consul an amateur.

A friends son-in-law is a Harley no-helmets guy. He died a couple days back on his bike, leaving two kids under 10. Kickstarter and FB is all freedom seeking bikers talking about what a tragedy it is. God’s Will and all that.

Perfectly normal behavior and view held by millions and millions.

samtho · 2 years ago
That’s a real disparaging view. It’s pretty clear that he intended to survive all of his climbs.
sneak · 2 years ago
Suicide itself is, in the philosophy of many, permissible.

This isn't congruent with suicide, however. But even if it were, that's permissible, as our lives are our own to use as we see fit. Anything less means you're not free to choose your own destiny.

It's unnecessary to you and me, but obviously not to these people. Our own opinions of necessary do not apply to them, only to our own lives.

Mistletoe · 2 years ago
I feel uncomfortable watching free soloists. Like watching Roman gladiators, risking their life for our amusement. I found it interesting that Clif bar stopped sponsoring athletes that do it. Maybe that's the right decision and direction. They aren't just climbing for themselves usually. The eyes and likes are spurring them on to greater risk. On the other hand, I admire Alex Honnold and other climbers, it's a weird cognitive dissonance.
actionfromafar · 2 years ago
I don’t think it’s weird. We are savage but try better ourselves. This is what movies are for, to me. Death and violence can be had there, in a safe format.
dpc050505 · 2 years ago
Clif stopped sponsoring every rock climber because free soloing is associated to it.
carabiner · 2 years ago
Really engaging article. The "climbing as therapy" notion is a bit overhyped, in this article and elsewhere. IMO anything that promotes focus or mindfulness can chip away at a depressed state, and once in a while, pop you into happiness. It can be painting, mountain biking, playing piano, anything.
sfink · 2 years ago
I'm sure it's different for everyone, but I think climbing has a bit more reason to make a claim here. If you lose your focus, or fool yourself into thinking you're focused on the right thing when you're actually not, then you'll find out. You'll slip or you won't find a way up. With something like painting, it's easy to fool yourself.

It's a bit like the difference between writing and programming. I like doing both, and can get deep into both, but a compiler is going to tell me I'm being a dumbass a lot quicker and more definitively than any eventual reader could.

actionfromafar · 2 years ago
To me, programming is past that. But I easily fool myself what I program is worthwhile. Or am I?
jfengel · 2 years ago
Also, climbing with protection can be very therapeutic. As can bouldering. It doesn't have to be deadly to really, really focus your attention. Your brain doesn't want to fall even if it's just a few feet.

It's also a remarkably mental exercise. I love when they set new routes and you can watch the high level climbers gathered around, mentally rehearsing how to solve a problem.

BaseballPhysics · 2 years ago
> The "climbing as therapy" notion is a bit overhyped

What I liked about the piece is it actually hits on exactly this point, and specifically that if you can't find peace off rope you won't find it chasing a high on rope.

samtho · 2 years ago
They never said climbing (specifically free soloing) was the only way to do this, it just so happened that this guy gravitated towards that. It’s a pretty well established fact that physical activity or mentally stimulating activity of certain types will help alleviate symptoms of depression.