Why, oh why have you gone with the terrible "bar-style" arrow keys instead of t-shaped? Apple similarly made this mistake, and thankfully recanted. It was so miserable to use bar-style arrow keys that I've officially sworn off of any keyboard (or any machine with a keyboard) that has them.
Hi. I have an m1 mac but always missed linux since I got it.
Here are my questions if you can take a minute:
How stable is the Linux laptop and what distros are officially supported? What would be the best possible battery life I can get out of that 13 inch Ryzen version that was recently released?
They officially support these Linux https://frame.work/linux and I've been using it for 1.5 years - it's super stable.
I get pretty great battery life on my 11th gen Intel Framework under Fedora, and it's apparently way better on the 13th gen. Also stoked for the Ryzen version later this year.
As others noted, we provide support for Ubuntu LTS and Fedora, and we have setup guides published for those along with Mint and Fedora. At this point, there is mature support for the hardware we are shipping, including the new 13th Gen Intel Core processors.
I'm also curious about this for the 13th gen one. My hope is that it shares the 12th gen's excellent Linux compatibility (the only thing that doesn't work with that one is that you need to turn off the light sensor for the brightness keys to function properly), and that the Windows battery life improvements carry over to Linux.
(The Ryzen one isn't out yet, so nobody will have battery life answers on that.)
They're using Intel radios, which is good. Intel and AMD are both good on CPU and GPU, the screen resolution is icky if you want to run X11, so you'll want wayland, and that is a can of worms. I'd say my KDE experience is great, but others complain more.
I'm having the worst time hunting down a Cooler Master Mainboard Case ... seems like y'all have not had these in stock the numerous times I've checked, today even, https://frame.work/products/cooler-master-mainboard-case. Any inside info for us from Cooler Master on supply or ETA on stock from your sales page?
I've tried direct with Cooler Master. The online store has 3 pages of cases, https://store.coolermaster.com/us/cases-2?pagenumber=3 none included Framework's. Next I checked CM's 'find a store' which dead ends at suggesting Micro Center or Game Stop, which neither I find carry them.
I don't have a 3d printer on-hand and don't think this warrants 100-200$ printer purchase. Should I go hunt around for some folks to help at a local college or hobby shop instead?
I certainly can see up-cycling my 11th gen mainboard into a homelab asset with proxmox this year though. Without a mainboard case for this 11th gen on-hand though, I'll also not consider a mainboard upgrade.
Cooler Master is currently in production on the first set of cases. We’ll send out an email notification to those who entered the waitlist on the product page once we have them in stock, which should be within the next few weeks.
Currently we offer the DIY Edition without an OS installed and have setup guides and community support for popular distros, along with technical support for Ubuntu LTS and Fedora. Our embedded controller firmware is open source, and we’ve opened sourced CAD and documentation for many of the hardware modules.
Will you ever stop iterating on the chassis and focus purely on the replaceable components? Seems to me that a reparable/upgradable laptop doesn't matter if you keep changing the chassis such that in order to enjoy new features you need an entirely new laptop every iteration. It also feels to me, as an 11th gen owner, that I've been left behind with my power and sound issues. Which is basically the same boat as any laptop user.
My understanding is that every upgraded component which ships with the new framework can be purchased separately and installed in the 1st generation model. Indeed, this is the primary selling point of the framework. What source have you seen which says differently?
I'm in the same boat. Though, I think about it differently; the fact that I can print a case and use the mobo as a headless server is a differentiator for me. I also don't know if it's possible to design an attractive functional chassis that doesn't need iterating.
That being said I'd like to see a recycling program, or some way to reduce the environmental impact from upgrades.
All of the modules are cross-compatible across 11th Gen, 12th Gen, and 13th Gen Framework Laptops. In the Marketplace, you can also use the compatibility filters in the nav on the left if you’re unsure.
Love my 12th gen framework laptop except for an issue with the headphone jack. Waiting on a replacement for that.
I do wish the keyboard was better. See the Thinkpad. Using the function key for terminal paste + home and end forces me to spend a second to think to shift between this and my Thinkpad keyboards. I know you are coming out with magnetic ones-really looking forward to that and hope they match the thinkpad.
Also, the thinkpad keyboards have arrow keys can actually be pressed.
I'd say the up and down keys are the two most used keys on my keyboard.
My 11 year old mechanical keyboard just had its first switch failure a month ago, unsurprisingly on the up arrow key.
If someone releases a proper keyboard module for the framework 16 by mid-december, then I'll be getting a 16', otherwise I'll probably going with a thinkpad.
I feel you. I won't buy a laptop without an OLED panel. If you're going for a budget device, I totally understand not including a panel like this. But this doesn't seem to be a budget laptop. It's meant to last and be upgraded.
Can you please elaborate on why the new mobo is so much more power efficient? If anything is due to software (e.g. BIOS), will you be able to backport these changes to previous version?
Also agree with reviewer's comments about privacy shutters being hard to see. My family members have complained about "laptop['s webcam] doesn't work" when the shutters were closed. This caused unnecessary bad experiences with using the laptop.
As a counterpoint, I love that they're subtle. I don't want big things glaring out at me. (But when they're disabled, there is an orange section. If you don't know that it's possible, as your family probably doesn't, you won't think anything of it, but it's easy to see at a glance the status.)
Part of the improvement comes from the 13th Gen processors, and part comes from improved firmware control of the retimers. We have firmware updates for 11th Gen (stable release) and 12th Gen (beta release currently) that enable the latter.
Their "DIY Edition" (vs "Pre-built") allows this: the laptop comes without memory and storage installed, and you either install your own or install separately packaged parts that you ordered at the same time during the configuration process.
Are we going to see improvements to the pricing overtime (and not just for last gen mobos)? Even the OP mentions that a roughly identical (spec wise) Dell laptop is $350 cheaper. It's rather hard for me (and even harder to convince someone else) to swallow that much of a premium.
I have been wanting to design a framework case for my own use. Unfortunately the way I need to mount the motherboard means that the air in take is on the other side then it is in the Framework laptop. Would it be possible to either flip the fan or run it in reverse mode?
I really hope so too, I bought the same laptop as you a few months ago, and battery life hasn't been great (not to mention it gets hot a lot). I love the laptop otherwise, so I'm hoping the switch to AMD will fix this.
We shared during our event in March that we'll be adding Spain, Italy, Belgium, and Taiwan this summer. We're building infrastructure to scale beyond that too, but we don't have a timeline or specific set of countries we can share yet.
I'm definitely thinking about getting a Framework, I could use a decent Windows / Linux laptop for random hacking (and some light gaming). Might wait until the next model comes out though since I don't have any immediate need.
Being able to replace components in my 2012-era Macbook Pro has saved me a number of times and a laptop that's built around that ideal sounds great to me.
Are Frameworks generally in pretty high demand and hard to get? Like when the next model comes out, can I basically expect that it will be impossible to get for a while?
I like my 2022 framework, but the Linux support has been disappointing.
I've had off and on display issues: both the built-in display, which used to constantly freeze (now less so), and external displays which sometimes will stop working until I switch kernels. Battery life is awful -- it'll last maybe 8 hours with the screen off (doing basically nothing, but not sleeping). A few hours of actual use. Sometimes the replaceable ports stop working until I re-insert them after boot. The manual screen brightness doesn't work until you disable the auto adjustment and reboot (not sure if this was fixed).
It's about the level of support I'd expect form a laptop not specifically advertised as Linux friendly, except Linux was part of the marketing for Framework.
Just want to put this out there since this review didn't test Linux.
I wonder if it is possible for a DIYer with a 3D printer to put a mainboard in a thinkpad X220. Or transplant the thinkpad keyboard to the Framework. All electrical connections are probably going to kill this idea stone dead, but a man can dream;-)
I hope the review is indeed correct, my Framework Laptop 12 has horrible battery duration: Normal usage 3 hours, high CPU usage 2 hours, measured multiple times. Also the fan is constantly spinning, it's very loud and it's overheating.
Are there any plans to enhance the sound quality in future iterations? The 80dB speaker upgrade makes it louder, but the sound quality is still lacking compared to other traditional machines.
I was comparing the sound quality to Lenovo's, Thinkpads, and MacBooks. I find my framework sounds muddier and more distorted than all of them. I acknowledge that the Mac might be unfair since it's in a different price and quality range, the Lenovo quality seems doable though.
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How stable is the Linux laptop and what distros are officially supported? What would be the best possible battery life I can get out of that 13 inch Ryzen version that was recently released?
I get pretty great battery life on my 11th gen Intel Framework under Fedora, and it's apparently way better on the 13th gen. Also stoked for the Ryzen version later this year.
(The Ryzen one isn't out yet, so nobody will have battery life answers on that.)
I've tried direct with Cooler Master. The online store has 3 pages of cases, https://store.coolermaster.com/us/cases-2?pagenumber=3 none included Framework's. Next I checked CM's 'find a store' which dead ends at suggesting Micro Center or Game Stop, which neither I find carry them.
I don't have a 3d printer on-hand and don't think this warrants 100-200$ printer purchase. Should I go hunt around for some folks to help at a local college or hobby shop instead?
I certainly can see up-cycling my 11th gen mainboard into a homelab asset with proxmox this year though. Without a mainboard case for this 11th gen on-hand though, I'll also not consider a mainboard upgrade.
Any insight or guidance?
Is that not your understanding?
Edit: The marketplace also has replacement speaker parts, like https://frame.work/products/speaker-kit?v=FRANBXFG03 ) - I'm now even more confused about how your older chassis is holding you back.
That being said I'd like to see a recycling program, or some way to reduce the environmental impact from upgrades.
Love my 12th gen framework laptop except for an issue with the headphone jack. Waiting on a replacement for that.
I do wish the keyboard was better. See the Thinkpad. Using the function key for terminal paste + home and end forces me to spend a second to think to shift between this and my Thinkpad keyboards. I know you are coming out with magnetic ones-really looking forward to that and hope they match the thinkpad.
I'd say the up and down keys are the two most used keys on my keyboard.
My 11 year old mechanical keyboard just had its first switch failure a month ago, unsurprisingly on the up arrow key.
If someone releases a proper keyboard module for the framework 16 by mid-december, then I'll be getting a 16', otherwise I'll probably going with a thinkpad.
The current panel has quite long rise times.
Also agree with reviewer's comments about privacy shutters being hard to see. My family members have complained about "laptop['s webcam] doesn't work" when the shutters were closed. This caused unnecessary bad experiences with using the laptop.
Dead Comment
Being able to replace components in my 2012-era Macbook Pro has saved me a number of times and a laptop that's built around that ideal sounds great to me.
Are Frameworks generally in pretty high demand and hard to get? Like when the next model comes out, can I basically expect that it will be impossible to get for a while?
Once they're out for a while, though, they're just normal "pick one up and buy it" things.
I've had off and on display issues: both the built-in display, which used to constantly freeze (now less so), and external displays which sometimes will stop working until I switch kernels. Battery life is awful -- it'll last maybe 8 hours with the screen off (doing basically nothing, but not sleeping). A few hours of actual use. Sometimes the replaceable ports stop working until I re-insert them after boot. The manual screen brightness doesn't work until you disable the auto adjustment and reboot (not sure if this was fixed).
It's about the level of support I'd expect form a laptop not specifically advertised as Linux friendly, except Linux was part of the marketing for Framework.
Just want to put this out there since this review didn't test Linux.