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23B1 · 3 years ago
I always love it when this pops up. I'm unfamiliar with the origins of this particular version, but the Office of Strategic Services, working alongside the SOE and other Allied intelligence agencies distributed a wide array of manuals, pamphlets, and propaganda like this starting in WWII.

I'm a former Green Beret, and we reference a lot of this stuff when studying guerrilla warfare (we call it Unconventional Warfare). Here's a graphic I love to reference – the Soro pyramid. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Original-version-of-the-...

and here's an updated one: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/333222899/figure/fi...

This shows how sabotage, resistance, and underground activities progress towards full-on guerrilla war.

It was deeply frustrating for me to get out of the service and go to work in large organizations who seemingly employed these very techniques as a matter of practice!

neovialogistics · 3 years ago
Organizations, large and small, are all pathological. It isn't an epidemic of terrible social accidents, it's inherent to organizations as a method of grouping humans.

Essentially, people (and AFAIK, all primates) have a built in behavioural system to take excess credit for wins and minimize blame for losses. The details are a nasty tangle of evolutionary psychology but the consequences, in groups, are blame deficits. These deficits typically manifest as a simultaneous doublethink mix of low morale and unrealistic optimism. That's the pathology.

Good personnel management is about leveraging this instead of fighting it. I recommend The Organization Man (1956) and Moral Mazes (1988) if you want to read on the topic and/or fall asleep fast but if somebody knows a more recent text on the topic, please suggest it.

theteapot · 3 years ago
> Essentially, people (and AFAIK, all primates) have a built in behavioural system to take excess credit for wins and minimize blame for losses.

Where did you get this from? Seems like a cynical view. I think it's just one end of a spectrum. I've definitely worked with people like this, but I also some that do the opposite - wins are for the team, failures are on them.

shredprez · 3 years ago
The Gervais Principle comes to mind.
SuoDuanDao · 3 years ago
It doesn't address this dynamic in particular, but reinventing organizations by Frederic Laloux is one text that makes me optimistic about the possibility of improving human organizational practices.

The most relevant prescription that book makes to your point is probably the proper diffusion of responsibility through empowering everyone to make executive decisions so long as they consult everyone that will be affected first. It's an interesting book.

networked · 3 years ago
Interesting how the quality of diagramming is plainly worse in 2013 than in 1966. The 1966 original is more easy to read: the typeface is pleasantly wider, there is no red or blue text on a saturated yellow background. It looks better overall. One part of it is technical limitations (you can't abuse color when you print in monochrome), but it is also that the 1966 version was most likely done by a specialist, and the 2013 version wasn't.
dan-robertson · 3 years ago
I suspect in 1966 you would send it to typesetters / a graphics department and in 2013 someone does it themselves with a computer. If you have a diagram/graphic made by someone who specialises in making diagrams/graphics, it will likely be better than something made for the same cost in 1966.
trentgreene · 3 years ago
While I can appreciate the simplicity of the older version, the lack of padding around text + monochrome made this a sea of black marks to me. Basically illegible. 2013 was much easier to read
mturmon · 3 years ago
And as a matter of substance -- the right-hand vertical black bar on the earlier version says, "Preparation of parallel hierarchies for taking over government positions", but on the newer version, the same text appears on both vertical bars.

That theme as shown in the earlier version seems important, and it's just not there in the newer one.

In current terms, you could see the militia movement in the US as relating to that theme.

TrispusAttucks · 3 years ago
It feels like this is happening to the entire country right now.
23B1 · 3 years ago
Yeah, the interesting thing is that we're doing it to ourselves despite our (ostensibly) global supremacy.

Having spent a lot of time looking at what unwinds a country – and I'm no sociologist or geopolitical expert – it generally seems to me that the institutions upon which we depend are unwinding. Pick any – government, business, the economy, the press, the concept of truth.

Maybe those weren't perfect to begin with, but I always tell folks that it's a great opportunity to rebuild those institutions better, instead of sitting around waiting for the apocalypse.

I'm very happy, for instance, to see all the new thinking around the institution education. We all knew it was going to become undone with the democratization of information via the internet, but thanks to COVID, a lot of people are reflecting on the value of sending their kids to (globally underperforming) public schools, or going into debt for college.

happytiger · 3 years ago
Ray Dalio’s book was helpful in understanding this period of time, as well as The Fourth Turning.

Definitely just part of the cycle of civilization. Might be helpful to pull up that that framework in order to understand what’s happening.

I’d love to hear any other titles like this. I’m almost done with Disunited Nations by Zehan. Some interesting ideas in there, but the book isn’t as interesting as his ongoing YouTube posts have been this far — just got it today so I’m only have way done.

roflyear · 3 years ago
We've definitely passed the middle of the underground items in the US :/

Deleted Comment

gnarbarian · 3 years ago
this is basically a manual for how our federal government works.
SuoDuanDao · 3 years ago
This would make a great meme template. Add a 'you are here' indicator and comment on any recent news story.
red-iron-pine · 3 years ago
Q-anon is pretty near the top, I'd imagine.

They get a lot of foreign and domestic help, though.

cheaprentalyeti · 3 years ago
I have been wondering... who's the author of the original Soro Pyramid?
23B1 · 3 years ago
SORO = Special Operations Research Office

I believe it was originally found in this publication: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Human-Factors-Consider...

which you can read here: https://books.google.com/books?printsec=frontcover&vid=LCCN6...

9dev · 3 years ago
Without any military experience but some interest in history, this feels a little tainted with domestic propaganda; the entire pyramid, even the new version, regards existing institutions as inherently righteous and legitimate, and those exerting guerrilla tactics as inherently morally corrupted (e.g. achieving their goals using lies, influenced by foreign agents).

The older version is especially hilarious, considering the CIA applied the same external influence to terrorists and guerrilla forces in South America and the Middle East they revile as "communist" in there.

RugnirViking · 3 years ago
I didn't get that sense at all. I'm with you in not trusting the CIA, but I feel like this is a fairly realstic view of how things actually happen, which they probably intentionally used as part of the process of destabilizing foreign governments they dislike.

edit: I see - the "original" one is a lot more explicitly targeting communist gurellias

duxup · 3 years ago
> Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision.

OMG… I have customer who does this to his organization on every meeting we join. I’m guaranteed to have a good 30 (or more) minutes of discussions about some other meeting unrelated to the one they are currently in. It’s like clockwork.

He always starts it out really vague too with “it was brought to my attention <re-opens topic>”.

I’ve long wondered if anyone really does bring anything to this guy’s attention or if he just is being vague so he can hide the fact that he is just opening a can of worms, tell his anecdotes again all on his own for no reason.

I kinda wonder now.

PragmaticPulp · 3 years ago
There’s a certain type of work environment where managers are only half paying attention — they evaluate performance and reward people based on how they perform in meetings, but they don’t pay enough attention to look at the real performance of people over time.

This rewards people who are good at being performative in meetings: They try to flex their importance (“it has been brought to my attention that…”) and they try to raise issues with everything because it makes them look like they’re on top of it all.

The weird thing is that they don’t really understand what they’re doing most of the time. It’s just what they’ve been rewarded for in the past, so they’ve continued to do more of what has brought them rewards.

raverbashing · 3 years ago
People complain about chatGPT being a Stochastic Parrot but we got plenty of natural ones in corporate positions
rgblambda · 3 years ago
Possibilities include:

1. He's a control freak and has to have a hand in every decision.

2. He's opposed to the project and wants it to fail.

3. The previously agreed decision benefits a rival within his organization and he's trying to reverse this.

4. He loves hearing the sound of his own voice.

5. He's incapable of keeping up with the current discussion and only works out what people were saying after the meeting so brings his belated contributions to the next meeting.

noduerme · 3 years ago
I eliminated and/or monetized clients like this to death by just switching all my billing to hourly. It's incredible how quickly a dude like that will put a sock in it about the last meeting when you mention the price of revisiting a decision you already built code on top of.

Especially when it's clear you aren't trying to harvest extra hours and just don't need the hassle of accommodating their vanity.

ip26 · 3 years ago
6. The decision process is half baked, and nothing is ever completely closed. As a result, nobody shuts this guy down.
ftxbro · 3 years ago
> He always starts it out really vague too with “it was brought to my attention <re-opens topic>”. I’ve long wondered if anyone really does bring anything to this guy’s attention or if he just is being vague

In USA English that's just a way to introduce a topic, like if a journalist is interviewing someone and asks something like "what would you say to those who disagree with your puppy kicking policies" it's not like they have any specific disagreers in mind it's just verbiage that is part of their question.

neilv · 3 years ago
It might've been Dave Barry who said suggested that one say "it's been brought to my attention" as a way of signaling that one must be an important person, to have matters brought to their attention. :)
jorgesborges · 3 years ago
> Anyone can break up a showing of an enemy propaganda film by putting two or three dozen large moths in a paper bag. Take the bag to the movies with you, put it on the floor in an empty section of the theater as you go in and leave it open. The moths will fly out and climb into the projector beam, so that the film will be obscured by fluttering shadows.

What’s the contemporary equivalent? I’d still like to bring a couple dozen moths to the theatre just for the hell of it.

Jolter · 3 years ago
I think this would still work in a cinema. I don’t know what could constitute “enemy propaganda” though.
slickdork · 3 years ago
Depends on your political alignment. Superhero movies are basically fascist propaganda (the people who are most powerful will have your best interests in mind and save you, you dear children who enjoy comic books in your adulthood).
thakoppno · 3 years ago
I don’t think this would work. I can’t think of a single time in my movie going life where a moth has obscured the projection. There must be an existing counter measure. Fascinating idea.
Animats · 3 years ago
Probably that projector light output has increased so much that moths in the beam near the projector overheat. Drive in movies, which always needed a big light output, didn't have much of a problem with moths in the beam.
roflyear · 3 years ago
Good luck finding moths these days. They're all dead!
fhrow4484 · 3 years ago
Past threads as compiled by u/dang: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29606518

This gist is notable as it's:

- not in pdf format

- complete (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29597454 is just an excerpt)

- not a 404 dead link like many of the previous post.

dang · 3 years ago
Thanks! Macroexpanded:

Simple Sabotage Field Manual by United States Office of Strategic Services - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31676964 - June 2022 (55 comments)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31070624 - April 2022 (8 comments)

Excerpt from CIA's Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29597454 - Dec 2021 (209 comments)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293804 - Feb 2021 (1 comment)

1944 OSS Manual on How to Sabotage Productivity - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28507930 - Sept 2021 (5 comments)

CIA's Declassified 1941 Simple Sabotage Field Manual - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23316292 - May 2020 (1 comment)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22322041 - Feb 2020 (89 comments)

Spotting Field Sabotage in Meetings (2011) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16045073 - Jan 2018 (36 comments)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15109771 - Aug 2017 (32 comments)

The CIA’s 1944 Simple Sabotage Field Manual (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12253276 - Aug 2016 (64 comments)

Updating classic workplace sabotage techniques - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11702267 - May 2016 (280 comments)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10493881 - Nov 2015 (68 comments)

How to make sure nothing gets done at work - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10393485 - Oct 2015 (3 comments)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4831363 - Nov 2012 (67 comments)

From CIA: Timeless Tips for 'Simple Sabotage' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4243649 - July 2012 (3 comments)

How We Beat the Nazis with Bureaucracy - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1398103 - June 2010 (22 comments)

WW2 "Simple Sabotage Field Manual" declassified [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=905750 - Oct 2009 (6 comments)

OSS (pre-CIA) Simple Sabotage Field Manual - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=833443 - Sept 2009 (29 comments)

4ggr0 · 3 years ago
How are you always able to post these lists so quickly, with posts going back to 200*? These posts don't even link to the same source, and not every title contains "Field Manual", one is just named "How to make sure nothing gets done at work", has 3 comments and is from 2015. Wild :D
m_eiman · 3 years ago
> (4) Don't order new working materials until your current stocks have been virtually exhausted, so that the slightest delay in filling your order will mean a shutdown.

It's a bit funny that the entire Western economy with just-in-time-everything is indistinguishable from an act of sabotage.

thret · 3 years ago
"Anyone can break up a showing of an enemy propaganda film by putting two or three dozen large moths in a paper bag. Take the bag to the movies with you, put it on the floor in an empty section of the theater as you go in and leave it open. The moths will fly out and climb into the projector beam, so that the film will be obscured by fluttering shadows."

I doubt anyone tested how difficult it would be to acquire three dozen large months and fit them into a paper bag, then smuggle that into the movies. I'd like to try though.

jstarfish · 3 years ago
I've seen people smuggle in full meals for an entire family.

Moths interfering with the projection lights? That's Anarchist Cookbook level dumb.

Just bring a tube of crickets in and release them. Once the screams start, the movie is over and that auditorium is going to be out of commission for the rest of the day.

roflyear · 3 years ago
I imagine if this was done today, you'd get a lot of:

> Whenever someone asks you a question say you'll address it during standup.

> Never decide anything outside of a meeting (I think this is partially covered)

> If conversations become difficult, say you have to leave to go to another meeting and will follow up with them later.

thinkingemote · 3 years ago
Saw this first hand as a good technique - it was amazing. Was working in a open plan office of a major corporation and our department was situated right next to the CEOs office. One of my managers had an issue and got angry and said "right, im going to talk to the CEO" and walked up to him. CEO just said something like "Okay, thanks for bringing it to my attention but I have a meeting to go to right now, can we talk about this later". Not only did it completely defuse the anger of the manager but it totally worked and they never followed up. The manager was like head explodes in awe.
esses · 3 years ago
https://taylor.town/-10x > Hold 10 engineers hostage in a technical discussion.
roflyear · 3 years ago
Haha I remember calculating how much $ we spent a week in meetings, just with my small team.

It was... a lot of money...

worewood · 3 years ago
Wonderful, looks like my workplace is following all the tips!