The scanned copy of the book at Internet Archive [0] is probably a better representation of this text than the pdf made from a Word document that the title links to.
I think this highlights some differences between now and the 19th century.
Global communication and travel, to say nothing of media consumption, is much easier today. Many more Portuguese or Brazilian people have easy access to English. But back then, someone who didn't even speak English could publish this phrase book and appear credible.
This kind of thing still happens today. For example this reminded me of the Scots Wikipedia story, which took many years before being discovered: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24273851
There are still plenty of topics in which one can "appear credible"—and given chatGPT's skill in bullshitting about various topics, it's easier than ever.
I'm not sure how my comment was interpreted as "it's impossible to be wrong". I made a narrow claim that faking English knowledge in Brazil and Portugal is harder today than in the 19th century.
In a similar vein, "do the needful" has become so entrenched in some of my friends' vernacular that it's now used almost completely unironically.
Also, "like such as," from the old "Miss Teen USA" viral video, has stuck in my craw to the point that its use is unconscious (though still intended humorously).
"do the needful", "please revert back to me"-- phrases like these are not 'invented' by some Indian speakers. These are the stuff Indian savants picked up from the old English books. Then, these savants taught this stuff to fellow Indians and this dynamic gets reproduced everyday.
See an entry from Charles Scholl, Geroge Mcaulaly et al's "A Phraseological Dictionary of Commercial Correspondence in the English, German, French & Spanish Languages, with an Appendix Containing Lists of Commercial Abbreviations, Geographical Names, the Principal Articles of Commerce", published in 1891:
"Needful: he will do what is needful under the circumstances. We rely on your doing the needful for the protection of our interests. With which will you please do the needful. With which we shall do the needful, and credit you for the amount in due course. I shall do the needful at maturity. I enclose draft for 100 pounds at two months, to which I will thank you to do the needful"
Another entry from a law journal published in 1833 in UK: "The letter was immediately given by the bankrupt to the defendant, with directions that as the voyage was altered, he, the defendant, would do the needful."
These are a class of mistake mainly made by native English speakers, but I've ended up using words like "irregardless" and "misunderestimated" unironically because I used them ironically for so long that I forgot
When I first started working I thought this was normal business speak. Thankfully my bosses noticed and when I told them it was definitely not spiteful or ironic, they tactfully educated me on the finer points of Indian phraseology.
> One of my Iranian colleagues back when I worked in an office had many entertaining phrases, like:
> "I go make some shoppings"
As a Romanian living in the London, I hear English mistakes from various nationalities and I'm surprised how similar some are to Romanian, even when there's no connection. In this case, in Romanian we also word-for-word say "to make shoppings".
It often feels like English is the odd man out. :)
As an example, a Lithuanian was showing me a shortcut. He said "press alt plus ii". So I press "Alt+I". He chuckled and said "No, alt plus the English ii". So I pressed "Alt+E". The great vowel shift left vowels unrecognizable to other languages (/iː/ became /aɪ/, /eː/ became /iː/, ...).
Not in the same vein as the link, but I had an Iranian colleague tell me his wife was working occasionally as a babysitter, in technical violation of her visa... but he couldn't think of how to say this in English. He moved his finger back and forth under his nose and said in Iran he'd say she's working "under the mustache". I thought this was hilarious and told him how we'd say she's working "under the table".
I have never independently confirmed if this was an actual saying in Iran or not. (Google is not helpful.)
Since you mentioned it, I have to bring up the fact that fans of this, er, masterpiece made a (shockingly?) high quality audio dub over the entirety of the original with the dumped subtitles: https://youtu.be/XziLNeFm1ok
This might legitimately be one of my favorite pieces of entertainment in existence, if only because of the delivery and emotion behind nonsense idiom mistranslations. It's glorious.
I find that grammar perversions like this have a direct line to my funny bone in a way that almost nothing else does. Must have something to do with the subversion of expectation with something so incredibly basic as language.
> O novo guia da conversação em portuguez e inglez, commonly known by the name English as She Is Spoke, is a 19th-century book written by Pedro Carolino, with some editions crediting José da Fonseca as a co-author. It was intended as a Portuguese–English conversational guide or phrase book. However, because the "English" translations provided are usually inaccurate or unidiomatic, it is regarded as a classic source of unintentional humour in translation.
> The humour largely arises from Carolino's indiscriminate use of literal translation, which has led to many idiomatic expressions being translated ineptly. For example, Carolino translates the Portuguese phrase chover a cântaros as "raining in jars", when an analogous English idiom is available in the form of "raining buckets".
> It is widely believed that Carolino could not speak English and that a French–English dictionary was used to translate an earlier Portuguese–French phrase book, …
Really? Which part of the UK does that come from. Where I come from *Nort Wilts.) the related phrase would be "It's bucketing down!" but I've never heard anyone say "It's raining buckets!".
Readit News
[0] - https://archive.org/details/englishassheissp00applrich/page/...
Global communication and travel, to say nothing of media consumption, is much easier today. Many more Portuguese or Brazilian people have easy access to English. But back then, someone who didn't even speak English could publish this phrase book and appear credible.
Deleted Comment
There are so many that there's now another genre of reacting to this bad advice.
https://www.omnibusproject.com/340
English as She Is Spoke - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25784683 - Jan 2021 (129 comments)
"I go make some shoppings"
"Time for go"
Naturally, the rest of the gang picked them up and used them. I still say them to the consternation of others.
Also, "like such as," from the old "Miss Teen USA" viral video, has stuck in my craw to the point that its use is unconscious (though still intended humorously).
See an entry from Charles Scholl, Geroge Mcaulaly et al's "A Phraseological Dictionary of Commercial Correspondence in the English, German, French & Spanish Languages, with an Appendix Containing Lists of Commercial Abbreviations, Geographical Names, the Principal Articles of Commerce", published in 1891:
"Needful: he will do what is needful under the circumstances. We rely on your doing the needful for the protection of our interests. With which will you please do the needful. With which we shall do the needful, and credit you for the amount in due course. I shall do the needful at maturity. I enclose draft for 100 pounds at two months, to which I will thank you to do the needful"
Another entry from a law journal published in 1833 in UK: "The letter was immediately given by the bankrupt to the defendant, with directions that as the voyage was altered, he, the defendant, would do the needful."
> "I go make some shoppings"
As a Romanian living in the London, I hear English mistakes from various nationalities and I'm surprised how similar some are to Romanian, even when there's no connection. In this case, in Romanian we also word-for-word say "to make shoppings".
It often feels like English is the odd man out. :)
As an example, a Lithuanian was showing me a shortcut. He said "press alt plus ii". So I press "Alt+I". He chuckled and said "No, alt plus the English ii". So I pressed "Alt+E". The great vowel shift left vowels unrecognizable to other languages (/iː/ became /aɪ/, /eː/ became /iː/, ...).
Japanese person "Ohio gazimus!"
GI: "Well, Kentucky gazimus to you, too!"
or:
GI: "No toucha my mustache!"
Things went the other way, too. My dad would collect Japanese flyers aimed at GIs with horribly mangled English.
I have never independently confirmed if this was an actual saying in Iran or not. (Google is not helpful.)
Deleted Comment
[0]: https://web.archive.org/web/20170115091456/http://winterson....
This might legitimately be one of my favorite pieces of entertainment in existence, if only because of the delivery and emotion behind nonsense idiom mistranslations. It's glorious.
Even after seeing it many times, this old classic still makes me laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EShUeudtaFg
> O novo guia da conversação em portuguez e inglez, commonly known by the name English as She Is Spoke, is a 19th-century book written by Pedro Carolino, with some editions crediting José da Fonseca as a co-author. It was intended as a Portuguese–English conversational guide or phrase book. However, because the "English" translations provided are usually inaccurate or unidiomatic, it is regarded as a classic source of unintentional humour in translation.
> The humour largely arises from Carolino's indiscriminate use of literal translation, which has led to many idiomatic expressions being translated ineptly. For example, Carolino translates the Portuguese phrase chover a cântaros as "raining in jars", when an analogous English idiom is available in the form of "raining buckets".
> It is widely believed that Carolino could not speak English and that a French–English dictionary was used to translate an earlier Portuguese–French phrase book, …
Really? Which part of the UK does that come from. Where I come from *Nort Wilts.) the related phrase would be "It's bucketing down!" but I've never heard anyone say "It's raining buckets!".
Deleted Comment