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Posted by u/KoftaBob 3 years ago
Ask HN: Why doesn’t Apple allow torrent clients on the app store?
While torrent clients are often used for pirating, that’s not technically the stated purpose of the bittorrent protocol, it’s simply for P2P transfer of any files.

You could technically email pirated content to a large group of people too, doesn’t mean it would make sense for Apple to ban email apps.

Has Apple ever explained the justification for this?

superkuh · 3 years ago
Apple doesn't believe in software that exposes their users to content outside of their walled garden.
4eleven7 · 3 years ago
Apple doesn't believe in enabling illegal piracy, which is 99.9999999% of the usage of torrents.

Twitter, web browsers, and YouTube are fine on the App Store.

jesuscript · 3 years ago
A developer might want to offload bandwidth hosting costs to p2p.
sieabah · 3 years ago
I've used torrents to download software so that the provider didn't need to pay bandwidth to share their software.

There are completely legal and reasonable reasons torrenting exists. They're excellent at making huge downloads possible with the more efficient bandwidth. Instead of that, we have an ecosystem of "installers" that exist purely to download massive files to install.

willcipriano · 3 years ago
> enabling illegal piracy

> YouTube

Hmmm.

kevin_thibedeau · 3 years ago
Rip. Mix. Burn.
HereIGoAgain · 3 years ago
.....riiight.
Maursault · 3 years ago
> Apple doesn't believe in software that exposes their users to content outside of their walled garden.

Mobile Safari ordinarily exposes users to content, media, and applications outside Apple's walled garden, namely, the World Wide Web. Apple's walled garden only restricts the platform to protect users' system security and privacy, only allowing the installation of software from Apple's package manager, the AppStore. Apple does not restrict content, media, or applications.

Contrary to popular belief, dissent is a very good thing. If everyone always agreed, there would never be progress. It is only through dissent that things can improve. Further, I, for one, appreciate cynicism, as it often is efficient in communicating valid criticism. But as far as I am aware, no one cares for inaccuracy and most despise bullshit, libel and slander. Carry on.

stoplying1 · 3 years ago
This is so corpo-double-speaky that I'm almost worried it's satire going over my head.
HereIGoAgain · 3 years ago
Translation: Apple doesn't believe in the freedom to get for free, what they could restrict and charge you for themselves.
Apreche · 3 years ago
There's the piracy reason, obviously.

But for iOS specifically there is an additional reason. A torrent client that is downloading and uploading so much will absolutely shred the battery life on any kind of mobile device. If someone has a metered data plan, it will completely wreck that as well.

BudaDude · 3 years ago
I think its mostly because of piracy. While the battery life argument is valid, iOS is ruthless when it comes to killing apps in the background that are using a lot of battery.
pwinnski · 3 years ago
Your overuse of the word "technically" puts me in mind of a defendant in a courtroom saying, "Technically, your honor, I was swinging the bat to loosen up my shoulder muscles. He could technically have gotten out of the way, if not after the first hit, certainly after the second or third."

Technically the stated purpose for X can be whatever, the actual purpose is what matters. People have the idea that all law and ethics relies heavily on the wording of edge cases, but it's just not so. The vast majority of both law and ethics is based on plain and simple understanding.

The plain and simple understanding of a general-purpose torrent client is that it is for piracy. Is there a 0.0000001% use-case for Linux ISOs (on your phone!) or what have you? Sure, but those are the edge cases, and are easily satisfied using Safari on iOS.

You could technically light a fire and use a blanket to send smoke signals that use morse code for hexadecimal numbers that represent a uu-encoded representation of an .MKV file for the latest blockbuster too, but that's as unlikely as anyone emailing a gigabyte of pirated content to a large group of people, so it's not really worth considering, is it?

chomp · 3 years ago
From Apple: "... because this category of applications is often used for the purpose of infringing third party rights."

Which isn't incorrect, because the overwhelming majority of Bittorrent traffic is piracy.

josephcsible · 3 years ago
Aren't Web browsers often used for the purpose of infringing third party rights? Why don't they get rid of Safari then?
Sohcahtoa82 · 3 years ago
Greater than 99% of web browser traffic is legal.

Greater than 99% of torrent traffic is illegal.

If you can't see the difference and why this matters, I don't know what to tell you.

chomp · 3 years ago
The grand majority of HTTP traffic (in the US at least) is legal. Obviously one can break the law with anything that can reach the internet, but it seems Apple is drawing a line in the sand for what they believe to be a category of apps that in reality, are used more often than not for piracy.

By the way, don't take my comments as endorsing Apple's position. I personally think torrents on iOS is silly due to the battery and connectivity issues, but I feel like people should at least be able to sideload apps if Apple doesn't want to host them.

kube-system · 3 years ago
Extremely rarely. Usually they are used for visiting legal websites.
DavideNL · 3 years ago
The problem isn't that Apple does not allow torrent clients. The problem is that Apple dictates what software people are allowed to run on the hardware they own.

The EU will end this with DMA:

"new rules specifically targeted to address companies like Apple that have "a dual role" with control over both hardware and software look to allow any developer to gain access to any existing hardware feature, such as "near-field communication technology, secure elements and processors, authentication mechanisms, and the software used to control those technologies."

https://www.macrumors.com/2022/05/20/eu-plans-to-force-apple...

malux85 · 3 years ago
I used to work at a BitTorrent monitoring company, “often used for piracy” is a very favourable explanation.

99.9999% of torrent activity is piracy. My guess is that’s the reason.

UnpossibleJim · 3 years ago
Most game file transfers are torrent based, so if you've ever played an MMO you've been involved in a torrent. Definitely not piracy.

This type of torrent transfer goes for a lot of updating processing as companies can't handle the bandwidth.

sshine · 3 years ago
Does the App Store prohibit the use of a custom torrent client for downloading game data? This is a legitimate use-case for torrenting, but also one that does not warrant general-purpose torrent clients in the App Store.
throwaway14356 · 3 years ago
that is because you keep promoting it as such. In reality there is no piracy without a day in court.
kube-system · 3 years ago
In reality, Apple isn't a criminal prosecutor.
encryptluks2 · 3 years ago
By that reasoning shouldn't encryption also be banned?
colordrops · 3 years ago
No, the vast majority of encryption is not used for illegal activity.
vlod · 3 years ago
Maybe you forgot that the communication to https://news.ycombinator.com is encrypted.
altairprime · 3 years ago
Less than 99.9999% of encryption is for piracy, so no, the reasoning isn’t transitive from torrenting to encryption.

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topdownjimmy · 3 years ago
Same. Frustrating that I can't watch Big Buck Bunny or share Ubuntu with my friends using iPhone.

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