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Posted by u/xupybd 3 years ago
Ask HN: What was life like before and after a baby
My first is due 3 days ago. I'm told that I'm going to have no time any more and good sleep is a thing of the past.

I'm worried, I don't work well when tired. I'm just starting to get in the habit of investing in myself as a developer and am reading a lot, practicing a lot. This has made me, in my estimation, a much better programmer. Does this end when you have kids?

What was it like for you out there that have gone through this change in life?

xcom86 · 3 years ago
First off, congratulations! I love hearing about new people coming into the world. I'm currently doing some debugging while one of my little ones is slowly falling asleep (mine are 2 1/2 and 4 1/2).

There's a PaulG tweet about this that I'll have to dig up sometime about how parenthood changes you and yes it will change you.

The first six-months to a year you won't have decent sleep. You'll learn how to function.

Really I think the difference is that you don't have much time anymore for distraction, you don't tolerate it. You can't tolerate it. Sure, you'll still be able to browse HackerNews and play games (sometimes). But those long periods of drifting off, spacing out, taking hours to finish something...you'll learn to stop that.

You'll become more efficient. You'll have to: the baby is hungry or needs to be picked up from daycare. Dishes need washing, diapers need changing. Some young dev is dawdling on about something in their day? No. Where's the MR, here's what you need to fix. Get it done. Push it out. We don't have time for this sh*t.

It gets real. In a good sense. In the best sense.

I think you'll wish you did this years ago.

XorNot · 3 years ago
I'd also add that "you'll have no time" thing doesn't really feel like that. Unlike a job or some other big but necessary commitment, the feedback loop on where that time is going is pretty quick: it's going to your child.

You feed a baby they're happy, you change a baby, they're happy, you get them to sleep and they'll be happier. It's a very different experience IMO to anything else: it takes as long as it takes, and it's all necessary, but the feedback loop is close to instant.

Source: am the father of an almost 7 month old so far (and was extremely skeptical I'd enjoy it as much as I actually am).

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throwaway6734 · 3 years ago
>I think you'll wish you did this years ago.

We just had our first this past weekend and so far your post reads entirely true, especially this.

lanstein · 3 years ago
The only things that helped our kids learn to sleep (which took us several years to figure out):

- hot shower (not bath) before bed

- immersion school in another language

- sleep training

HTH, congratulations, and good luck!

reitanqild · 3 years ago
First: congratulations!

Second, two tips more tips from a dad of 5 children:

1. From somewhere after around 1 year: Put effort into teaching sleep skills: I did it by leaving the room after singing and prayer and coming back every 1 + 2n minutes where n is days. (Of course, use your parental judgment.) This was surprisingly effective in teaching them that Dad leaving the room doesn't mean Dad had disappeared, only that Dad is elsewhere and will be back soon. Important: do come back. Use a timer and follow it exactly. Come back even if the kid doesn't cry. It is important that they realize they don't have to cry for us not to disappear.

2. Also, when teaching them to sleep, don't let the fall asleep with anything (persons, toys, food, music, tv, absolute silence) that won't keep all night. We all wake halfway up many times during the night to check if everything is OK. For a small child a missing milk bottle is enough to signal "not ok".

the_doctah · 3 years ago
That seems like a lot for something humans do naturally.
lostmsu · 3 years ago
Just feed the darn creature well before bedtime. If it isn't diaper, babies wake up or can't sleep due to hunger.
magigift · 3 years ago
Thanks, I’m going to need these:)
hunter-gatherer · 3 years ago
A couple things:

1. If you have hobbies, put them on hold indefinitely. Your about to get new ones. This is ok, though. I've found I have time for one only. The rest of my time has been re-discovering the world with my young daughters. Cherish it, and have fun with it. Enjoy refamiliarizing yourself with simple things, like watching a sugar ant walk across the floor.

2. Ive learned to make it a point to immediately put my phone or laptop away as soon as my kids are in the room. I don't have peer reviewed to evidence to back up my claim thatit has done wonders for the self esteem and confidence (compared to waht I often see) but it seems like it has. Always be attentive to them, first and foremost. HN can wait... it is probably just another post about a note-taking app anyways.

3. You can absolutely still learn and progress amd a fast pace in your career. You'll have to learn to study hard in short blocks of time, but if you make it a priority it will happen.

4. Kids have a weird way of getting between you and your partner. Don't forget to make intimate moments with them.

5. Some days and weeks are just going to suck. Just remember, it will be alright

6. If you have close friends or relationships you care about, I'd put some monthly reminders in your calendar for the next couple years to just gently remind yourself to call/text/email/whatever. It is hard to keep friends when you have young kids.

Disclaimer: I have a almost 4 and an almost 2 year olds -- these are just the things I've learned. More wiser (more kids, older kids) fathers probably have better wisdom to impart.

Edit: format

lostsock · 3 years ago
Excellent list and resonates strongly with me as the father of a 6 year old girl.

I especially love the "re-discovering the world" part. Watching my kid learn concepts, coming from a totally different starting point and putting her own spin on it has been wonderful.

That said, it is HARD to be a good parent. It's super rewarding but it's not easy.

mrcartmeneses · 3 years ago
This is so true. But as long as you’re always aware of your failings (and accepting that it’s OK not to get it right all the time) then it’s possible to ‘step up’ to parenthood like so many of us do.
mrcartmeneses · 3 years ago
As an older dad (not necessarily wiser) This is very good advice. I’d add it’s super important to make as many friends with as many other parents as possible. My wife achieved this by just turning up to the local children’s center pretty much every day when our daughter was a baby. Living in such a diverse and open area of the world (Hackney, London) certainly helped as there were plenty of likeminded parents to choose from and non of the catty suburban bullshit we’ve had to deal with later in life. Best way I’ve found to bring up a kid is with lots of friends for everyone
Hayvok · 3 years ago
Congrats! I’ve had four, and just brace yourself: the first year is hard. No matter how “good” the baby, no matter how well they sleep, it’s just hard work.

Ten years in and I’m seeing some of the hobbies come back, some of the personal goals. But I have a different perspective on them now. They are complements to who I am, not what define me, and I’m always ready to put them back on the shelf.

Maybe you won’t reach the programming heights you dreamed for yourself, but fatherhood and family are infinitely more rewarding.

As I pause to write this, my three oldest are reading books on the floor and teasing each other good-naturedly. My wife is playing peekaboo with our one year-old, who’s giggling non-stop and staring at her mother with adoring eyes. We haven’t bothered to clean up dinner yet. I have a baseball game on in the background, and I was supposedly reading when I slipped over to HN and saw this post. Going back to the family now - my book and HN can wait a little longer - cheers and God bless you and your family as you embark on this journey. All will be well.

insickness · 3 years ago
> Ten years in and I’m seeing some of the hobbies come back, some of the personal goals. But I have a different perspective on them now. They are complements to who I am, not what define me, and I’m always ready to put them back on the shelf.

I have no children and have developed a similar perspective as I've gotten older. When I was younger, I wanted my extra-curricular endeavors to lead into a full-time career, money and notoriety. While I did make money and achieve some notoriety, those activities now inhabit--what I consider to be--a healthier space in my mind. I am content enjoying them while I do them and also content with putting them aside for stretches of time. For good or for bad, I no longer feel like I need to prove something to the world.

rswerve · 3 years ago
Just a bit of advice based on my own experience (and mistakes). If you go into having kids thinking "how can I experience as little disruption as possible?" you're going to find yourself angry and frustrated a lot of the time.

Appreciate this little person. You are their whole world for the next several years, and it was your choice to bring them into the world, not theirs. Absolutely try to carve time and space for yourself so that you don't feel like you've lost a part of yourself that's important to you. But remember that the demands, and racket, and interruptions can be precious if you make space in your head to appreciate them.

On a more practical note, the first six months you'll be close to useless as a programmer, but those are also some of the most magical moments of your life. Enjoy them. People at work know what it's like to have a newborn.

ghusto · 3 years ago
> If you go into having kids thinking "how can I experience as little disruption as possible?" you're going to find yourself angry and frustrated a lot of the time.

Every parent needs to hear this. I can't believe the number of people who think it's okay to get angry with their children for getting in the way of their lives.

igetspam · 3 years ago
I'd like to join the "congratulations" crowd but I just can't. Having a kid has made many aspects of my life more difficult and ultimately worse. I've lost countless hours of sleep, my focus is worse, my personal relationships are failing... life is just not as good as it used to be. I have been remote for nearly a decade and I long for the days of working in an office again. I don't miss the people, I miss the peace of having everyone around me working with noise canceling headphones and only knowing people are there when they make it obvious they want to talk and only then because there's a problem to solve that is actually solvable.

I'm not saying his to rain on your parade. I'm saying this because not all people are created equal. You don't have to like parenthood. I love my kid but that doesn't mean that I love what I've become. If you find yourself there (or if anyone else is reading this and thinking they can't believe I'm saying it out loud), it's okay. You can still be a good parent, even if you don't love it and you're not a bad person, as long as you try.

Daneel_ · 3 years ago
This summarises my own experience very well. I absolutely love my kids, but parenting has been extremely tough. I really don't enjoy it, and feel like it's ruined my life too. I'm less productive both at work and at home because I have no energy and no free time. I never get to refill my energy tank, so to speak.

While I know the fun things will come back as the kids get older and become more independent (or want to take part in my interests with me), I can tell that it's going to take a long time before things return to a degree of normalcy. An example of this is that I used to game with my wife most nights - now I couldn't name the last time this happened. We're both too exhausted by the time we finally get free time around 10-11pm. I also used to do dirt bike riding with my wife - it'll be several years before we can all go and do that. I miss being able to come home from work and relax too. Now it's just different work once I'm home.

It's relentless and exhausting, and while I love my kids I wouldn't choose to do it if I had my time over again.

Quick edit - I should add that I give 100% to parenting my kids. I chose to go down this path with my wife and I make sure that my kids don't suffer for my displeasure. They're awesome people and have a great life. I just sorely miss my free time and my ability to be productive at work.

peter422 · 3 years ago
I both dislike being a parent, occasionally dislike my child, yet love my child and am happy to be a parent.

Though a lot of this is because I have a lot of friends with children around the same age and complaining brings me a lot of joy. So I'd strongly recommend finding some fellow parents to chat with as you go (and unfortunately you'll find people without children to be living in a different universe).

xupybd · 3 years ago
I've been in that different universe for a while. I'm in my very late 30s so most of my friends have had kids for most of the last decade.
mrslave · 3 years ago
I don't know what life is like where you live but working at a library might solve your need for a group-quiet-focus space. You might also find networking with locals an improvement at the local church or school parent's committee?

Among my friends those who wanted to be parents are amazingly fulfilled, albeit sometimes tired and stressed. They are also focused and ruthlessly prioritizing, and still get a lot of the most significant things they want to done. Those who fell pregnant through questionable life decisions are mostly less fulfilled with a couple of happy accidents thrown in the mix. Most of them do not have children however. Civilization thanks you for your service (assuming you do it properly).

igetspam · 3 years ago
I've had an entire building to myself. I guess I made too much of a comment about working from home.

We did not have a kid through any mistake. There was an understanding. Sometimes you do things you don't like to get what you want.

Civilization would be better off with fewer people, not more. That's a weird thing to say.

I thought my point was clear but I guess not.

Enjoying being a parent is not a requirement. Good on you, if you do. If all you do is try hard and don't F them up, that's good too. It's not said enough but not everyone likes kids or parenthood and you don't have to feel alone or bad. It's ok.

ccleve · 3 years ago
It sounds like your problem isn't having a kid, it's not having a separate, quiet space to work. You can't do work that requires concentration with a small child in the house, you just can't. If you have a spouse or a relative or a baby sitter who can do child care for a few hours a day, then please go elsewhere. It will make you feel so much better when you can actually get something done. It will do wonders for your mental health.
igetspam · 3 years ago
That does sound like a good assumption but unfortunately it's inaccurate. I genuinely don't like parenthood. I don't like negotiating with a child. I don't the mess. I don't like noise. I don't like cutting my day short because it's dinner time. I generally don't like being a dependency and not having freedom of mobility.

Parenthood didn't solve anything for me except that I got the partner I wanted.

FWIW, my office is and always has been isolated from the main part of the house, if not entirely detached.

pdmccormick · 3 years ago
I’m sorry to hear this, and you’re not alone (I’ve been WFH with young kids for half a decade so far). I know that feeling of pulling your hair out because the house is so _alive_ and distracting. Would you have any opportunity to go to a quiet workspace, a public library, a coffee shop, or return to an office part time? Best of luck to you.
igetspam · 3 years ago
I am separated from the house by many doors. Work life balance is only a small part of what I don't enjoy.
kickout · 3 years ago
Yea, I know this feeling. Not everything is sunshine and rainbows. Absolutely a ton of work and many sacrifices involved
igetspam · 3 years ago
I would absolutely kill and die for my partner and my kid but I have the latter because I desperately wanted the former and it was part of the contract. It was the price I had to be willing to pay and I would choose it again.
theshadowmonkey · 3 years ago
Something I experienced with a relatively young kid(2 years) and staying home and watching her grow up was really nice. But, I rethink or feel regret when she is sick crying all night and my head is pounding. I realized this feeling quickly goes away and you'll only remember the good moments with your kids and learn to love them unconditionally.
KennyFromIT · 3 years ago
Hang in there buddy, it gets better.
igetspam · 3 years ago
I come from a large family. My kid is five. I disagree. Some people like this life. I just don't see the draw. I find comments like this rather condescending. I don't have to enjoy it. It's okay. That was my point. I'm a good parent because I'm committed to it and that's enough.
ghusto · 3 years ago
> "I'm worried, I don't work well when tired"

Don't worry. You'll learn that your current definition of the word "tired" is wrong. Your current "tired" will become your new "okay", and I'm no I'm not joking.

However! You'll also learn that this attitude of "I need sleep to perform" is in your head, and be amazed at what you'll be able to do when you have to. You'll find that not having a choice in what you _have_ to do, works wonders for your definitions of "can" and "can not", because the next day you'll still be at work, and you'll still get things done. I also don't do well with little sleep, but here I am (still getting promoted).

To answer the title question more generally; it's night and day. I now understand how self-centred and egotistical I used to be. Of course the degree won't be the same for everyone, but I think there's still a certain level of egocentricity that anyone without a child can't escape.

Best advice I can give you is not to stress about a single thing. Statistically, it's much, much, more likely that it'll all work out. Worrying about the very small possibilities is too much when you're already over-tired, and it wouldn't do any good in any case.

RationPhantoms · 3 years ago
I'll start with the congratulations. So congrats first off.

Second off, parenting is hard. Very hard. Might be the hardest thing I've done personally. My first kid came into my life in the middle of me changing jobs, moving and then, within the first 6 months, purchasing a home. I turned the "adult" knob of my life up to 11. Don't be like me. Press pause on other big swings in your life. Yes, programming will take a back seat. The world will continue to turn.

You will absolutely curse your former self with how loose you were with your free time. You'll probably have a bit of resentment towards your spouse and the kid itself for changing that. That's okay but don't let it manifest. Every day from their birth will get better or you will adjust. Your free time won't be taken for granted anymore.

Thirdly, every kid is different. Find their formula and help them thrive. Some kids, like mine, come out hard charging & stubborn but never pausing. Others will have a different wavelength. Don't try to overcomplicate their time either. Sometimes just hanging with mom and dad, or dad and dad, or mom and mom is enough for them. Other times, a spatula can be an absolute wonder.

Lastly, you cannot do it alone. Lean on your parents, your spouse's parents, your daycare (if you can afford it), the local playground. Use all the tools at your disposal to get by and out. That means in the moment too. Take a mental breath, step outside and catch some fresh air. That doesn't mean leave your kid alone for 20 minutes. That just means making sure you take care of yourself so you can take care of them.

Good luck, have fun and don't be too hard on yourself.

keithnz · 3 years ago
I think the most striking for me with my first is that I felt a lot of things were suddenly out of my control, while there's always things to worry about, I never really worried that much, but the significance of having to look after another human life suddenly hit me and I realized there are a lot of things that can go wrong that, even if you take precautions, there's no guarantees. Which is generally true, but when it's about someones life other than your own, it feels a whole lot more significant. However, after that, as a Dad, for the first 6-9months, you are pretty insignificant other than as a helper, but as your kids become more interactive, being a dad starts becoming fun. Then there is a super sweet spot from 4->14 (ish, different with different kids) that you have to take EVERY opportunity to enjoy and engage with as much as possible. All during this time I also was improving myself as a developer also.