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Posted by u/Flollop 4 years ago
Plex: Important notice of a potential data breach
Dear Plex User,

We want you to be aware of an incident involving your Plex account information yesterday. While we believe the actual impact of this incident is limited, we want to ensure you have the right information and tools to keep your account secure.

What happened

Yesterday, we discovered suspicious activity on one of our databases. We immediately began an investigation and it does appear that a third-party was able to access a limited subset of data that includes emails, usernames, and encrypted passwords. Even though all account passwords that could have been accessed were hashed and secured in accordance with best practices, out of an abundance of caution we are requiring all Plex accounts to have their password reset. Rest assured that credit card and other payment data are not stored on our servers at all and were not vulnerable in this incident.

What we're doing

We've already addressed the method that this third-party employed to gain access to the system, and we're doing additional reviews to ensure that the security of all of our systems is further hardened to prevent future incursions. While the account passwords were secured in accordance with best practices, we're requiring all Plex users to reset their password.

What you can do

Long story short, we kindly request that you reset your Plex account password immediately. When doing so, there's a checkbox to "Sign out connected devices after password change." This will additionally sign out all of your devices (including any Plex Media Server you own) and require you to sign back in with your new password. This is a headache, but we recommend doing so for increased security. We have created a support article with step-by-step instructions on how to reset your password [here](https://support.plex.tv/articles/account-requires-password-reset/?utm_source=Plex&utm_medium=email&utm_content=reset_password&utm_campaign=sql_db_password_reset).

We'd also like to remind you that no one at Plex will ever reach out to you to ask for a password or credit card number over email. For further account protection, we also recommend enabling [two-factor authentication](https://support.plex.tv/articles/two-factor-authentication/?utm_source=Plex&utm_medium=email&utm_content=reset_password&utm_campaign=sql_db_password_reset) on your Plex account if you haven't already done so.

Lastly, we sincerely apologize to you for any inconvenience this situation may cause. We take pride in our security system and want to assure you that we are doing everything we can to swiftly remedy this incident and prevent future incidents from occurring. We are all too aware that third-parties will continue to attempt to infiltrate IT infrastructures around the world, and rest assured we at Plex will never be complacent in hardening our security and defenses.

For step-by-step instructions on how to reset your password, visit: https://support.plex.tv/articles/account-requires-password-reset Thank you,

The Plex Security Team

hddherman · 4 years ago
If true, then this will probably reignite discussions around Plex requiring that you authenticate with their servers when using the service to view content that you're hosting on your own hardware.

If anyone is curious, then alternatives like Jellyfin exist. It's a bit different and may not have all the features you need, but it works quite well in my experience.

smileybarry · 4 years ago
Plex doesn't require account linking IIRC, it's heavily suggested but you can just access Plex locally without an account.[1]

But otherwise I've switched to Infuse[2] since then, it indexes sources reliably on its own (no manual editing though) and saves the entire need for a server if you use it with some cloud storage. Basically replaced my Plex server, with the added bonus of out-of-home streaming without needing high upload. The major disadvantage is that it's Apple-only.

1: https://support.plex.tv/articles/207538527-do-i-need-a-plex-... 2: https://firecore.com/infuse

koheripbal · 4 years ago
This is not correct. I've tried the LAN no-login settings and it does not work for many devices (Roku/smart tv/phones). They also fail if you're not on the same subnet as Plex.

For this infuriating reason, moving off of Plex is on my to-do list.

SamuelAdams · 4 years ago
I recently tried this on my setup, two Roku clients and a plex server. Despite my best efforts I could not get subtitles to work unless I had an account signed in with the preferred subtitle options configured for the account.

Being hard of hearing, subtitles are a big deal. I wonder if this is an ADA violation?

drexlspivey · 4 years ago
With infuse plus cloud storage any transcoding happens locally though which is a problem with weaker devices
Sytten · 4 years ago
People on HN always complain about this. But the reality is that the one time payment you (maybe) gave for Plex is not enough to make a viable company. So they have to offer complementary products and for that you need an online account.

Normal people also want to have features like remote streaming, subtitles fetching, familly sharing, etc which are hard to do without centralized accounts. Not even mentionning securing your paid features which you have to do to survive. And that customer doesn't care about the login as long as it is up.

I don't anything plex could do to please this particular demand would ever be enough so for me they do well to ignore it since removing that would effectively kill their business.

koheripbal · 4 years ago
I run a lot of self-hosted software services, many of which have their own internal account system and auth. None of the features you mentioned require 3rd party cloud based auth.

I did pay for Plex prior to the cloud auth change, so for me it's a bait and switch, but my concerns are much more about privacy.

One day Plex will be bought by a large media company, and my (and my kids') viewing data and library catalogue data will be owned by MGM, Disney, Fox, etc...

zexodus · 4 years ago
Perhaps the most important thing about Jellyfin is that it's open source. I really wish the project received a little bit more love.
wallmountedtv · 4 years ago
I also want to bring into light that Jellyfin is not very secure either [1], its sadly not in a great place to replace Plex still.

1: https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin/issues/5415

geerlingguy · 4 years ago
I've been running it for the past year and besides the occasional odd bug with media discovery, it's run great for me and my family for all our movies and TV a shows.
JeremyNT · 4 years ago
Yes, it's shocking to me how many people are (apparently) willing to trust a closed source / SaaS product like Plex for this kind of thing.

Jellyfin may not be perfect but surely it's good enough for most use cases.

gadders · 4 years ago
I like Jellyfin, but I need the Samsung client to be finished first. At least it looks like it has been started: https://github.com/jellyfin/jellyfin-tizen
shaunpud · 4 years ago
Has an app for the fire stick too which works really well
encryptluks2 · 4 years ago
They have done a great job, but ultimately I believe a tool like Go or Rust would work much better and the XML metadata format while standard is not very good. Would be nice to see YAML or even JSON. Kodi is my go to for the most part, but I will have to say Jellyfin is definitely more polished. It downloaded the transparent logo for the movie I was watching and displayed it so nicely when I started a movie. I remember Plex offering music themes when you were browsing a collection.. I wonder if Jellyfin does something similar already.
moffkalast · 4 years ago
Kodi's pretty good too, and doesn't insist on showing unrelated online content you don't care about like Plex seems to.
jaimex2 · 4 years ago
Kodis always been the better option if you're remotely technical.
gadders · 4 years ago
I just use Universal Media Server now and the built in media-browser on my Samsung TV. It's a bit janky but it works.

I've tried using Plex before and while the UI is nice, they don't seem to be able to write a video transcoder that doesn't have massive stuttering in it.

rograndom · 4 years ago
It's using ffmpeg. It's limited by the CPU/GPU on the server. You can adjust the options to have it encode faster or higher quality.
BeetleB · 4 years ago
> If anyone is curious, then alternatives like Jellyfin exist. It's a bit different and may not have all the features you need, but it works quite well in my experience.

Jellyfin's DVR service is horrible compared to Plex. Practically unusable. And DVR is the reason I pay for Plex.

tmm1 · 4 years ago
Check out Channels DVR
owlbynight · 4 years ago
I like that they're up front about this. Solved the problem in a couple of minutes.

I use a password manager with a very long randomly generated password for everything, so a hashed password leaking is essentially meaningless to me. Notifying me immediately so that I can change it ASAP is what matters.

The burner e-mail I use for stuff like this is listed in 25 other data breeches, too. I don't really care. Plex is amazing software.

I don't really understand the freak outs here.

koheripbal · 4 years ago
You're being a bit generous with credit to them. We have no idea how long the malicious actors had access (not do they it seems), nor what depth of access they had. I turned off my server until they have had a chance to verify that no malicious software updates have been pushed.

With regard to complex passwords, Plex is one of those accounts that using a random password is quite cumbersome since my kids and I are often connecting new devices that don't access the password manager. We also use it on smart TVs while on vacation. We use a unique, but simple to remember password.

The problem with Plex is that they force you to use cloud auth even if you self-host despite that not being necessary at all for those many of us that self-host. I don't have any other server I host that requires this. The local LAN login they claim works without auth doesn't work for most devices nor across subnets.

It means I cant access Plex when the isp is down and it means Plex sees my library and my kids' activity (which I don't like for privacy reasons), despite having paid for lifetime Plex before this was a requirement.

Think about the Plex as a business that may very likely get acquired one day by a large media corporation. What happens to my data then? Will they ask me to verify my ownership of content I host(ed)? They are already pushing commercial "free"content to my kids, which is exactly what I was trying to get away from.

doorsopen · 4 years ago
I've switched to using jellyfin and i've never looked back.
mikewhy · 4 years ago
> often connecting new devices that don't access the password manager

Isn't that what plex.tv/link is for?

Thews · 4 years ago
There is no need for a "complex password" just use a passphrase and don't reuse it.
dotBen · 4 years ago
> I don't really understand the freak outs here.

Because most people reuse the same email address and password, and are potentially way more exposed than you are.

owlbynight · 4 years ago
I find it hard to believe that most people on HN reuse the same e-mail and password. That practice has always been known to be stupid. There's a whole thing about it in the movie Hackers... from 1995.

In 2022, your data isn't safe. It's widely known your data isn't safe. You need to take steps to make it matter less when its mishandled.

Don't get me wrong, the Plex infra team should feel bad about themselves, but if this breach in anyway compromises anything else in your life other than your media center -- and if your hashed password gets cracked -- then that's on you in my opinion.

CookieCrisp · 4 years ago
Plus, even if my password isn't exposed, I don't appreciate when my email address is exposed, or I have a username able to be linked to an email address.

Now, should I have been smarter and used a burner email address and username unique to Plex? Definitely. But I signed up with them like 10 years ago.

lucisferre · 4 years ago
Yeah the OP reads more like they understands exactly what the freak out is about.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF · 4 years ago
> data breeches

First I thought of the pants that the crew of the Enterprise wear and second was the diaper thing that the monkey you use to save in Mega Man Legends wears[0].

(As an aside, an image search for "data star trek" will have you believing that he does not wear pants on that show.)

[0] https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=data+mega+man+legends&atb=v...

withinrafael · 4 years ago
This disclosure is no where to be found on their website or blog, and it provides no timeline, no details about the attack, and no details about what data was accessible beyond "a limited subset of data that includes emails, usernames, and encrypted passwords". Very very frustrating.

As of Aug 23 11:24PM PST, Password change page is sort of working, at times displaying error message "Internal Server Error. Something went wrong on our end". I was able to get my request through. Shortly after, a server instance started showing unclaimed status and reassociating it resulted in "Plex is down for maintenance \ Don't worry, it will be back soon \ status.plex.tv".

ResNet · 4 years ago
It appears the password change works fine if you deselect the "Sign out connected devices" box. [1]

[1] https://twitter.com/troyhunt/status/1562329358282285057

rcarmo · 4 years ago
Mine worked fine with that checkbox on. However, I cannot get my home server to appear again, even after getting a new claim and restarting it.

Deleted Comment

rstuart4133 · 4 years ago
And now the sender sending the "reset password" email is blacklisted by spamcop, I presume because they are sending so many emails from a server that normally doesn't much. They are not having a good day.

http://www.spamcop.net/w3m?action=checkblock&ip=192.254.122....

dannyw · 4 years ago
> Causes of listing

> System has sent mail to SpamCop spam traps in the past week (spam traps are secret, no reports or evidence are provided by SpamCop)

Sounds like their spam trap is broken.

SpyKiIIer · 4 years ago
As someone who works in email delivery, spamcop is broken alot of the time...
nowahe · 4 years ago
I have a feeling that this breach is older than what they're letting on.

On July 27th, I received ~7 emails, about 10 minutes apart, warning me of a new device logging in my Plex account. It didn't correlate with any activity on my part, and the IPs were all over the place (for context I'm in France). Here is some of the IPs that were used :

  - 191.101.41.35 (US)
  - 185.199.103.40 (US)
  - 103.43.200.58 (India)
  - 2001:16a2:def3:200:40cf:530f:ff72:1747 (Saudi Arabia)
Fortunately the password is only used on Plex, and I just generated a new one and signed out my devices, and that was it.

koheripbal · 4 years ago
In general, corporations will use some weasel words when reporting breaches.

They will say "we have evidence that a subset of x/y/z data was accessed". You might think that means they have evidence that the other data wasn't accessed, but what it means is that they only currently have explicit indicators of certain data being accessed (such as a exported zip file that bad actors forgot to delete, or the log of one sql query, etc). It really means very little, and companies (internally) usually assume everything on the breached server was accessed, even if externally they only report on obvious breadcrumbs.

They also say "We detected access on xyz date and immediately worked to close the vulnerability". You might think this means that they know that this was they have evidence that this was the first access, but it only means this was the first obvious alert they noticed and responded to. There might be earlier accesses (even some they already know about).

They are intentionally vague to limit their legal liability. This is why laws must be passed to compel full disclosure.

Flollop · 4 years ago
Plex is implying the passwords were salted and hashed:

> all account passwords that could have been accessed were hashed and secured in accordance with best practices

KingOfCoders · 4 years ago
I personally wish companies would encrypt email addresses in their database, this would at least help against SQL injection attacks and some others (e.g. attacker has only DB system access and not app server access), so it's more difficult for attackers to aggregate data on me. To me it feels very casual waving away the leak of email addresses and just give the usual "passwords were encrypted". But YMMV.
onionisafruit · 4 years ago
The difference between email and password is you can validate a password with a hash, but you can’t send an email to a hashed address. Their db may be encrypted at rest, but a hacker could still compromise a system that has the key in memory.
zaarn · 4 years ago
Encrypt the email in column, add hashed email in separated column. Email Sending would then be covered by a separated and "airgapped" system that holds the decryption key, if you need to send mail, you send the encrypted email address plus what you want to send there.

Now an attacker cannot get a hold of email addresses easily.

TedDoesntTalk · 4 years ago
> a hacker could still compromise a system that has the key in memory.

Security is about layers. Simply because a hacker “could” do something, does not mean it’s a bad idea. Getting the encryption key when it’s not stored in the database requires the hacker to now have access not to just the database but to another system as well.

vivegi · 4 years ago
In the healthcare industry in USA, Personal Identification Information (PII)/Personal Health Information (PHI) needs to be encrypted at rest and in transit and is mandated by law. So, they are required to encrypt PII/PHI data fields.

Some of those practices may be generally applied for non-healthcare settings as well.

racingmars · 4 years ago
To get nitpicky... (usual disclaimer, IANAL but I worked in health IT including heavy involvement in HIPAA topics earlier in my career) I don't think there's a requirement under HIPAA or HITECH to use encryption.

The relevant parts of HIPAA are the duty to not disclose PHI to unauthorized recipients and breach notification requirements if you do incorrectly disclose PHI (the HIPAA breach notification rule).

The magic of encryption is that HIPAA provides safe harbor if the data stolen/lost/intercepted was encrypted to certain standards. So if you lose an encrypted hard drive full of PHI, or someone breaks into your servers and steals encrypted data but not the decryption capability, then it's not considered a breach under HIPAA and you do not need to notify anyone.

Tons of PHI isn't stored encrypted at rest. Physical theft of the hard drive from the practice's back-end EHR database server hasn't generally been high priority on the HIPAA breach potential risk assessment list. But nearly all data in transit, on employee laptops, etc. will be encrypted, because that's where you want the safety net of the safe harbor provision.

KingOfCoders · 4 years ago
Does at-rest mean: encrypted on storage so noone can physically steal a drive or encrypted in the database so noone can get the information with SQL without the key (e.g. Postgres column encryption)?
SamuelAdams · 4 years ago
Apple did a good job with this, I think it’s called Apple Hide My Email.

https://support.apple.com/guide/icloud/what-you-can-do-with-...

marcushill · 4 years ago
It seems to me that encrypting emails is either untenable or insufficient depending on how you do it. You could do a one-way operation like is used on passwords, but then you can't access the user's email address to send them emails. You could instead do a two-way encryption but that likely means using a hardcoded key to decrypt, and that key can't be considered secure if attackers have access to the system. There may be other more effective options but I'm no security expert and I haven't given much thought to other solutions.
MattPalmer1086 · 4 years ago
You're mostly right.

Hardcoding a key would be a bad idea. You would need some way to rotate keys. Maybe also encrypt the actual data encryption keys under another key encrypting key.

But this only defends against attacks which can't get that key (e.g. a SQL injection attack that just dumps table contents).

Having said that, you only need to decrypt if you want to send an email, for logging in you could just store a one way salted hash.

More importantly, this is a lot of effort to protect data that isn't usually regarded as that sensitive (unlike the passwords). If I had the security budget to do that, I'd almost certainly spend it on something else.

pxeger1 · 4 years ago
If that 2-way encryption key is stored separately to the database (e.g. only the web server has it, not the database server), it certainly helps reduce the risk that the emails are compromised.
gkhartman · 4 years ago
Thanks for sharing this. I got the email, but found it here first. They let us know pretty fast, and gave clear instructions on how to secure our accounts moving forward. That can't be said for all companies that we trust with our info.

It sounds like payment data was stored in a separate database that had a different set of credentials (for this I am grateful).

Thanks to The Plex Security Team for providing details quickly.

rurban · 4 years ago
No, not all.

> Rest assured that credit card and other payment data are not stored on our servers at all and were not vulnerable in this incident.

flexd · 4 years ago
I'm a long time Plex user, and I have not received this email. Not sure if I should be worried or if the breach has just affected a subset of users. I use random unique passwords for everything anyway, as long as no credit card details were taken it shouldn't be a big deal hopefully. I was able to log into the site now and no message was displayed at all.

Edit: Not sure why I would be getting down-voted for this. Security breaches are a big deal, but if the only result of this for the users is that we need to change our passwords that's a fairly good outcome, no? :-) The biggest hurdle ahead for Plex is to figure out exactly what these attackers did, if they were directly targeted and for how long they were in their network. A lot of the times a incident is discovered it's discovered a long time after the first breach (based on my own personal experience)

MattPalmer1086 · 4 years ago
Likewise, I haven't got anything.
ResNet · 4 years ago
I haven't received anything either, and was able to log in without having to set a new password.
MattPalmer1086 · 4 years ago
Just got the email.
blantonl · 4 years ago
I got the email about an hour ago.

Understand that sending emails that are not SPAM, to potentially millions of people is NOT a trivial exercise.

bluesquared · 4 years ago
I got mine roughly 3.5 hours ago, so after this post was made. Looks like they're trickling out.
gorbachev · 4 years ago
I got my notification roughly 3 hours after the Hacker News post.
mplewis · 4 years ago
I received this email 1.5 hours ago.
itwrangler · 4 years ago
I received email 5+ hours ago