One thing I've noticed about 'terminal online' is that people vastly underestimate how much it affects them. Myself included.
It seems if I ever call out a loved one, whether my brother or wife or friend, for being on their phone too much, they immediately get defensive and argue they were just doing some one task. Even if this was initiated after them being zoned out for an hour or longer. And I've done the same when reading something super interesting and getting lost in time.
Honestly, it doesn't seem much different than how addicts act in an intervention. We need to realize that this is an addiction, label and treat it appropriately.
My wife finally relented when our kid asked me to do something while I was working because 'mom is too busy with Facebook again.' I think that really hurt her feelings, even if she never admitted as much.
My ex wife is an ex wife because she zoned out into Facebook constantly and stopped doing anything with the family. Then she went bananas and ran away with someone who ironically she split up with because he was always on Facebook. It can go pretty bad.
I’m super happy though as the kids stayed with me :)
I'm struggling with this currently. My partner spends 3+ hours a day scrolling Instagram (I know, I checked it in her Apple phone metrics).
When we watch movies, it's me watching it and her scrolling. When we're in the car listening to music, it's just me listening to music and her scrolling. I'm starting to struggle initiating conversations because she's simply not paying attention. Whenever we're out, half her time is spent through the lense of her phone so she can take photos for her story.
She refuses to admit its a problem, disregards any argument I put forward about how it's disrupting her life, and when I really sit down with her and tell her how it makes me feels, she attacks me about the time I spend at my laptop (which I track meticulously and know its at most an hour outside of work, so she is simply using it as a defense).
I've dated girls with drug addictions before, and it was easier than this because they at least admitted it was a problem. I feel like I can't even initiate the first step with her. It's crushing, because besides this issue, she's pretty much perfect.
Having done a fair share of substance abuse, I can tell you that screen and social media addiction is exactly like any other addiction. The brain mechanics behind it are the same. "Just another hit and then I am done".
The Power of Habit (the book) helped me identify my bad habits the moment they triggered.
Also, what's fascinating is that addictions seem to bundle together. If I get off the sauce, start working out, etc, it becomes immediately easier to ignore the phone, social media, and other reflexive behavior, like snacking for no reason.
One way I think about it: Marvin Minsky long ago wrote a book called Society of Mind, looking at human cognition as a series of semi-independent non-conscious agents. If I feel bad long enough, there's a collection of feel-better-in-the-short-term agents that work well together: mindless snacking, doomscrolling, playing video games, binge watching, overeating etc. Basically anything that helps me avoid being present in feeling bad. Even if in the long term they make me feel worse.
But there's a competing set of agents, the ones that mean regular exercise and eating healthily and good sleep and low stress levels. That set not only works well when I'm feeling good, but they're what helps keep me feeling good in the long term.
Either set can achieve a stable equilibrium, but the two sets aren't really compatible.
Not sure if that makes any sense, but that's one way I think about it.
My mom's been lost to Facebook and gambling apps for years. At some point in the last couple years I told her I didn't love her anymore because being around her is only negative and her screen addiction has put my life in danger on the road my entire life, and caused her to completely skip out on providing for her children.
Zuck, Zynga, all of them can be launched into deep space for all I care.
A lot of good questions to ask yourself here. But,
> have you ever used/applied "internet slang" (cringe, based, cuck, chad) in/to real-life situations?
I take slight issue with this one. To me, there is no difference between “internet slang” and just “slang”. The internet is ubiquitous and the language we use online and offline is largely the same now.
Didn’t always be this way. I still remember the first time I heard a friend say “epic fail” in really life circa 2005 or so, and it was like some sort of glass wall had been broken between our real lives and our internet lives. But that wall is long gone, and I think that’s probably okay.
There are actually a huge chunk of the population that just isn't very online, and genuinely don't know these terms. (Even many young people.) It was a real eye opener to meet some 'terminally offline' people and realize you can actually just escape and things are fine without being here constantly.
Makes me think it might be similar to the "I don't watch TV" or "movies" or "sports" crowds. Just any pervasive cultural activity in which some don't participate but still carry on.
I remember before I deleted my FB account (I've since created a new one), my buddy said to me that I'd be ok, just that I might be strongly disconnected from culture—not necessarily to tell me to not do it, but to be aware of the potential ramifications.
I can be online constantly and escape whatever the flavour of the month is. The only time it bites me in the ass is when I get banned for not being up to date on whatever everyone good and decent has to agree with to be good and decent.
During the piratebay trial, one of the founders got a question about if he had met someone IRL. He replied with that they don't use that expression but AFK (away from keyboard) instead. Becuase IRL (in real life) suggests that internet is not real life, but it is.
What we do online effects our every day life even when we are offline.
When you are running the Pirate Bay the internet is real life, and it also is when you have a business, but when you are on an MMORPG or Twitter it is real life to a much lesser degree. How can we distinguish between them? Well, the majority of relationships made on MMORPGs or Twitter go nowhere outside the platform, and the things that people discuss on them also tend to not involve anything that will still be there when the person logs off. That creates a pocket universe (with a few exceptions, I think some people have met their spouses on MMORPGs) unrelated to the real one. Operating Pirate Bay, or even talking about Linux kernel drivers on IRC, doesn't meet that criteria of being separate from real life.
I think I remember reading a Reddit post once about a girl whose boyfriend would say things in real life like "can we get some f's in the chat boys". Things that were clearly very niche and would either be completely unintelligible to the audience or at best sound out of place. I think it's a matter of reading the room.
Every day that goes by, the out group of internet slang and memes grows smaller. I don't really know if I'd consider this a good thing or a bad thing so much as just, a thing. But there's a lot of joking amongst younger internet folk about how they'll probably be talking internet slang in retirement homes in a few decades. It's a funny visual, perhaps because of the weird perception that we always think we will be like today's older people as we grow older for some reason.
Those Reddit threads make for good entertainment today, however fake they probably usually are. But for better or worse, some day, I suspect it's going to flip around.
Where I am, the F meme has pretty much become part of regular conversation, just like "lol". Granted, I exist in urbanized techie gen z spaces so ymmv.
That’s true for many words, but also sometimes you meet someone who talks like Reddit comments or in memes and it comes across really strange to me. It doesn’t sound like how people generally talk to each other in real life otherwise, at least in my experience.
I believe that thwe strangeness there comes in the syntax and conversation flow - or lack thereof. I've met people who speak with the cadence of a comment section in real life, if that makes sense.
In short - I think it's not what's said, as much as how it's said.
Not only gone, I’ve heard internet and/or local imageboard slang from people who surely never visited the source of it. It feels strange to conceal your own subculture from those who speak it freely.
I disagree, the difference is still there. It’s gotten a bit smaller, but it’s still there. Some people who are perpetually online on forums will say things like “that’s based” in real life, but out of a diverse group of 100 people how many do you think would understand and say things like that? I’d wager a lot of people may have heard before but probably don’t understand what it means. There’s also lots of localized real life slang that people on forums won’t get. You still might hear it on Instagram or places like that, but there is no ubiquity there. I don’t think it’s changed significantly beyond exposure with more people being on TikTok/Instagram/YouTube and similar networks.
I heard someone loudly exclaim L O L at tech conference one time in real life and it just made me want to kick their ass. I had a low opinion of that person immediately.
>I take slight issue with this one. To me, there is no difference between “internet slang” and just “slang”. The internet is ubiquitous and the language we use online and offline is largely the same now.
Some yes, otherwise you'd be surprised... In many circles and communities it's not the same at all - and even developments the 'social media'-inmates take for well known, are not a thing discussed at all...
It's like the "silent majority" of working programmers, who don't give a duck about HN, Rust, the latest trends in web and backend, and so on...
I live in a French speaking place and I wager vast majority knows these terms (am millennial) and a lot even use them here and there, in their English forms. Tho of course not all and there are "deeper" slangs that are more for people online enough to share some web culture.
IMO, Internet slang is accurate as it transcends geography while there is some locality to slangs and vernacular.
Recently I was arrested and had all my electronics seized by the police.
The whole experience was a wake-up call, not just in terms of being arrested but being without a computer or any way to get online for a couple of weeks.
It really made me realize how 'addicted' I was to the internet, and going cold turkey was horrible, time slowed down and I was sure I was missing out on everything.
But I read so much more and all the days seemed longer (time dragged so much) and then when I finally got back online I hadn't missed sh*t.
Online reading is all sizzle and no steak. It’s akin to making a meal out of condiments: Each individual element is tasty but the overall meal leaves you dissatisfied.
I really think much Internet content is more like cheap magazines/newspapers - small articles that can be read in under 5 minutes, ads and distractions peppered everywhere, and comment sections that are often large collections of short text. Social media is that experience on a higher scale.
The experience is not the same as sitting down and reading a 300 page book cover to cover which is also the product of an author sitting down and spending months or even years writing it. Of course that experience is definitely possible on the Internet - ebooks/PDF. But someone "reading" social media is not the same as really reading.
Reading online doesn't feel like reading. Most offline material is long form and has a clear purpose, otherwise it wouldn't continue existing. When you read it you are more likely to come away fulfilled, with new thoughts and ideas to process. You can't usually say the same coming away from most social network type interactions on the internet - You might have satiated your FOMO temporarily, but otherwise will likely feel empty. Obviously it's not all like that, there exists long form content on the web, but that's not really what we are talking about.
I hate to throw a purely negative comment up as a naked response to a post, but this is really just a contemptful screed about people engaging in online interactions the author doesn't jibe with. It's not even like they're presenting their opinion to elicit other perspectives-- it's presented as an objective list of unhealthy habits and patronizing instructions to align your behavior with the author's values and priorities. Not sure if the author intended this to be publicly consumed in this form but I'll skip their other blog entries.
What does 'objective' even mean in this context? This is a post about what the author believes is healthy and positive for individuals and society.
I don't see anywhere where contempt is shown, in fact quite the opposite. The post is written in a very empathetic way in my opinion, and I think displays a good level of insight into, and understanding of, the attractiveness of things that can do harm.
I'd challenge you to entertain the idea that this post has some good advice, and follow some of it. I have no data, but I expect you'll be happier as a result.
If you don't see contempt in the author's evaluation of other people's behavior, you're either not looking, or not a great judge of it.
> I'd challenge you to entertain the idea that this post has some good advice, and follow some of it. I have no data, but I expect you'll be happier as a result.
Personally, I don't fit any of the implied criteria for "terminal onlineness," so your challenge isn't possible. You don't merely lack data, you lack a valid reason for assuming this advice applies to me or any other person whose habits you know nothing about. I recommend you entertain the idea that neither righteousness in your conviction nor confidence in your words transform your assumptions and personal experiences into broadly applicable maxims.
Even if this advice addresses problems you, personally, struggle with, that's not necessarily true for everybody. I know brilliant, happy, well-adjusted people, like my wife, who engage in behavior this author deems undesirable. It's just not that cut and dried. Perhaps the author's conclusions suffer from sampling bias? Regardless, I will still skip the rest of their blog entries.
I think where you can see contempt, is in the characterization that the internet breeds a certain sense of humour and that it's an objectively bad one. Irony is not unique to the internet, nor is self-deprecating humour, or cynical humour, or are slang words. Usually when you hear an internet-slang used in real life it's a reference, not an earnest attempt to use the word legitimately. Like when people reference TV shows or movies, you've have to have seen it to enjoy the reference. If using it works for your in-group then that's great, you all understand eachother.
For me in this context "presented as objective" means using the authorial voice of an expert. I agree it's a bad fit for me here, because it sweeps a lot under the rug.
In contrast, I'd be interested in reading something on the same topic that was presented in a subjective way, where the author isn't hiding their personal relationship to the topic. For example, "I was terminally online and here's why and how I changed". Or "my friend was terminally online and I like that they stopped". Or even "here's why I am frustrated dealing with terminally online people".
But for me, the pseudo-expert advice from somebody with no obvious expertise and no claim of it leaves me cold. I don't understand why I should care what they think, or why I should trust them.
This is the problem with framing the problem of online harms as an aspect of individual morality. Blaming the victim isn't helpful, nor is excusing the victim on the grounds that the activities aren't immoral.
It's a good guide but it only addresses fairly vacuous and not that great online activities.
My Twitter feed is a collection of funniest, most deranged takes on any subject. People IRL have no chance to compete, no one can outdo the best two seconds of 800 people.
Same with HN. Conversations like these are rarely happening offline.
And then there are communities I sunk into. Private forums I have been a member of for nearly a decade. I know the in-jokes, we follow the stories of more interesting (chaotic) posters, there's even some real emotional investment.
All of that reachable fully asynchronously. Went to the gym alone? Read between the sets. Waiting for something? It's right there on your phone. Sadly, also, someone being boring... well, better stuff is in your pocket.
If you like that, then can I interest you in some crack, it's amazing compared to sobriety. Whenever I have to engage with people, all I am ever thinking is, "this is rubbish, I have some crack in my pocket, what am I doing here?" How can people be expected to compare with crack? It's ridiculous :)
> Same with HN. Conversations like these are rarely happening offline.
May I suggest that you might be looking in the wrong places offline?
HN-style discussions are a staple of lunchtime banter at any number of tech firms. Likewise you can find similar discussions at any number of universities, or on the tech conference circuit. Not to mention your local nerd-leaning special-interest communities (be it tabletop, D&D, hacker space, BDSM, etc).
The internet makes it really easy to find a community of folks who share similar interests, all without leaving your house. But unless you live in the middle of nowhere, one can generally find such a community IRL
Whether my online activities are less vacuous or not, by the numbers I spend an inordinate amount of time on the computer or other device. Granted mostly for work, but even after I get through evening chores, I tend to want to go straight back.
I think one mistake of perspective we have, when terminally-online and evaluating the alternative, is looking for other sources of passive constant stimulation as a substitute for social media feeds. Not bombarding your senses is part of the point. Daydreaming and thinking doesn't have to be boring, even just enjoying a moment of quiet.
Saying that, I think most people lack social validation in everyday life and try to satisfy it virtually. Having interesting conversation is separate from that, but also a consideration. We seem to be disappointed by our offline social lives but don't do a whole lot to rectify. That would require change (scary) and effort.
> There is an insurmountable asymmetry that degrades any local event or exchange. Because of the infinity of content accessible 24/7, there will always be something online more informative, surprising, funny, diverting, impressive than anything in one’s immediate circumstances.
- 24/7: Late Capitalism and the Ends of Sleep" by Jonathan Crary
I'm struggling with it. I have a website blocker on my Mac, but then I just turn it off eventually and go back to old habits, if I block hacker news, reddit etc, then I end up just having random thoughts and googling those and finding other sites to read through and of course sometimes reddit can have the answer for the thing i needed to google, so that can be annoying.
I changed to a white list to try and solve this problem, but then I just keep finding little bits of websites i need access to, to do what I want, the minute I disable something or find a solution, I just get around it somehow or need to turn it off and end up at square one.
I feel I tap into the " what is your life philosophy? what do you believe in? do the communities you browse online reflect this in some way? did you learn about these from people online?" this quite a lot.
The internet for me, is not about watching cute cat videos, but trying to learn more about life, philosophy, how to be a better human, productivity porn etc, maybe it's a big insecurity of mine, but I think about this stuff all the time and the internet is a unending resource for all this stuff, I figure that a great resource in solving and thinking about all these things, must be other people and there own thoughts and experiences that I can learn from and then integrate with my own thinking and the internet gives me unending access to that, or at least in theory it does.
So i'm reading through Hacking News, Reddit, blogs, watching youtube videos, podcasts etc, hoping to find those things and then I end up with a bunch of notes and documents etc, but it all kinda becomes overwhelming anyway, either from the content I am currently consuming or even all the thoughts and ideas I wrote down previous because I thought they where somehow useful.
I honestly don't know what to do about this anymore. I'm trying to figure out a system for living more simply and internet consumption is part of it, but also there is the bigger issue that i mentioned which I think is the primary driver of that internet consumption.
I think most people struggle with this if they recognize this as a problem. I use https://freedom.to to set up times of day when I can access social media. And yes, sometimes I shut this down when I want to cheat.
For me the best life hack to avoid wasting even more time is to rely on my Apple Watch to get phone calls and text messages, and leave my iPhone at home. This is sort of like using an old flip-phone because it takes accessing social media off the table.
That's good that you found something that works for you.
My phone isn't actually the big distraction point for me, I don't have social media apps and barely use it, it's more my iMac and sometimes my iPad too.
I guess I need to find something that works for me, i'm yet to figure that out yet though.
People have had this problem figured out for a very long time and I guess there’s just been too much else going on on the internet so it’s been lost.
You’re the only really technical person in the house, you’re the only one who can block you from doing things you know are bad for you, so you set up the software to do it, and then you have your spouse or a really good friend change the password. Now you can’t get back in without talking to them first.
> trying to learn more about life, philosophy, how to be a better human, productivity porn etc
IMO The internet is not usually a good way to learn this stuff. These are big life concepts that require deep focus and patience. The internet rewards the opposite of that.
The Big Concepts require both study and application. If you’re mostly spending time in the study phase, it’s not working.
I'm starting to just give up on it to be honest and consider more just trying to avoid this kind of information and figure out what works for me myself, my ultimate thought is to replace information consumption of this kinda thing with just more deep reflection and a bigger trial and error process.
I mean who are the people producing this content that I think will help me anyway? There just people, so I feel like I can figure it out myself maybe.
Even when cleaning i'm listening to these kinda podcasts etc, i don't know how much I get from it, I think I almost get more value from not listening to anything, as it allows my own thoughts to process.
I don't know. I feel kinda stuck with it all and this generally leads to two things, 1) Trying to find / consume more information 2) Overthinking that leads me to feeling more stuck and back to 1, i'm not sure quite what to do / where to turn, but maybe that is the issue, the whole 'where to turn' thought, is that same idea, wanting to figure out what information source will somehow make things different.
I use SelfControl App for Mac which adds the sites to your host file for a certain amount of hours. I find it to be very helpful now. Its also annoying to override it so while I could easily do it, usually it makes me delay until the "craving" passes.
Yeah, it's a good app that I have used in the past, the issue being I don't know how long I need to block everything for and I might need some of those websites randomly when I end up needing some info and the answer is on reddit etc.
Also lack of scheduling, so every time I have to click to start, I often lose so much time in the morning just browsing before I get to work etc.
Honestly, I'm an information addict. I'm online far too much mainly reading news etc.
I think I've forgotten how I lived without a constant stream of information. I'm seriously tempted to get a dumb phone to remove temptation to browse when I have a few minutes to spare.
The stupid thing is for all my reading, I don't feel any wiser or even knowledgeable. At the same time I think I'm less able to engage in normal conversation.
I have a few rules and habits that helped me kick. They might help you?
Never to walk down the street looking at my phone. Eyes on the road. If I need to look at my phone, I stop somewhere out of the way of foot traffic.
All notifications are silent except calls or text messages from specific people. Calls from people I don't know and text messages get only a slow blinking light. Social media get no notifications.
When I am with someone or a group in person, phone goes away.
If I wouldn't allow someone to interrupt a conversation, the phone doesn't either. I won't answer it if someone is talking to me, especially something important. When there's a pause in the conversation, I'll ask politely to check to see who called.
Finally, and this might be the biggest, I am constantly listening to audiobooks and podcasts. It scratches that itch of needing constant stimulation, but I can still be aware of everything around me.
Do you listen to audiobooks and podcasts while working? I code for work and I actually find myself increasingly doing this. Sometimes when I really have to focus I stop it but ultimately, it doesn't feel so bad.
I was like you few months ago. When summer started I decided to stop reading news from online. It was hard at first but quite fast I started seeing the benefits. More focus, more happiness, not being so worried all the time. Now I only read HN (way too often of course :)) and I ordered a newspaper to my home which is published 3 times a week. I get distilled look on whats going on in the world but it’s not eating my focus.
I tried to do this as well... bought a year subscription to the local paper. Unfortunately I live semi-rural and it is written so egregiously its only worth is feeding the firebox each week.
Instead, try cutting the triggers with an ad blocker and a few changes to your settings.
I hide recommended content, unsubscribe from everything, unfollow everything, and generally have a "don't call me, I'll call you" approach to information.
I went as far as removing pagination buttons on websites I tend to browse too much.
I also use Pocket to save more interesting articles. Combined with a "things I don't understand" to-do list, I spend more time reading about practical things instead of just browsing. I don't regret that sort of reading.
You realize a problem so you are on a good path. Two things that help me: prefer not carrying an iPhone and rely on my Apple Watch. Also, instead of spending over an hour a day on YouTube watching alternative news commentaries from people like Matt Taibbi, etc. I try to cut down on that substituting YouTube channels on philosophy, Thai Chi exercises, etc.
Also, having a library card at your local library gets you books to read, both physical books and eBooks through the Libby book reading app.
Anyway, congratulations on recognizing the problem: you are ahead of the game compared to most of my friends in real life and family.
Same symptoms as you and was also on the Nokia website a few days back looking at dumb phones. Others also mentioned the Apple watch also was a good alternative.
> The stupid thing is for all my reading, I don't feel any wiser or even knowledgeable. At the same time I think I'm less able to engage in normal conversation.
100% if I spent all the time I spend online reading actual books, I'd be much better off.
>"I think I've forgotten how I lived without a constant stream of information. I'm seriously tempted to get a dumb phone to remove temptation to browse when I have a few minutes to spare."
Up until few month ago my phone did not even have data plan. I ordered it now but purely for business needs. I use my phone strictly for phone calls and as GPS (I have offline maps). I use another phone to control gizmos like drone. For everything else I use PC and since I spend enough time doing various physical activities I consider my life balanced.
Something that really helped me was a smartwatch. I picked up an Apple Watch (cellular) a few weeks ago so I didn't have to carry my phone around, and subsequently, would not be tempted to mindlessly use it. I think the experiment has been pretty successful. For the most part my phone stays on the charger all day, and I don't feel like I am missing out on calls or texts since they come to my watch. Being able to leave the house without a phone is a particularly freeing experience.
> find a hobby // i don't mean this derisively, i promise. if you use social media to kill time, try putting that time into something else - maybe something you've always wanted to do. always wanted to cook? look up a recipe and start.
I believe the author (and many other people giving this advice) are naive to the difference between “free time with mental energy to burn” — where a hobby is definitely the right answer — and “free time where you’ve already used all your mental energy for the day.”
50 years ago, someone who was mentally drained by evening-time would be “vegetating in front of the TV.” Today they’re “doomscrolling.” In both cases it’s not that they’re addicted to a certain behavior, but rather that this behavior is one of the only pastimes available to them in their current environmental context that can be executed when fully cognitively fatigued, and yet not tired enough to sleep.
I say “in their current environmental context” because living in certain places (e.g. most cities, suburbs) limits your options. In more rural areas, you can just go out for a long walk in nature, or spontaneously go fishing. In communities that are safe, walkable, and socially well-connected, you can go to a {cafe, park, mall, bar, community centre, church, …} and run into friends rather than strangers, and just hang out shooting the breeze until you get tired. But many people alive today are in environments where they have none of those options. They have to come up with a braindead pastime that can be done both alone and indoors. We didn’t evolve to do well in this situation! Anything you pick is going to end up not being very good for you!
(Before anyone suggests “reading” — you’re underestimating the level of cognitive fatigue many people reach. If you have enough mental energy at the end of the day to concentrate on reading a good book and getting the full effect of it — as opposed to having a good book just slide past you, or reading “junk food” op-ed blogposts — that’s great for you, but that amount of mental energy would also be sufficient to cook or practice an instrument. Reading — the kind that actually enriches your mind — is a hobby, not a pastime!)
I find when I’m really exhausted, I stay up late looking at my phone and it feeds the cycle. If I read a book in bed I get relaxed, fall asleep, and feel rested. Looking at the phone could be the same as TV 50 years ago for some people but I’ve never fallen asleep looking at my phone and I often fall asleep watching TV.
I’ve come to the conclusion the best thing to do when I’m tired is get off the phone and go to sleep. Sometimes I don’t realize how tired I am until I realize I’m spending more and more time on the phone. A sleep tracker was really helpful for identifying this but I don’t have one anymore.
Readit News
It seems if I ever call out a loved one, whether my brother or wife or friend, for being on their phone too much, they immediately get defensive and argue they were just doing some one task. Even if this was initiated after them being zoned out for an hour or longer. And I've done the same when reading something super interesting and getting lost in time.
Honestly, it doesn't seem much different than how addicts act in an intervention. We need to realize that this is an addiction, label and treat it appropriately.
My wife finally relented when our kid asked me to do something while I was working because 'mom is too busy with Facebook again.' I think that really hurt her feelings, even if she never admitted as much.
I’m super happy though as the kids stayed with me :)
When we watch movies, it's me watching it and her scrolling. When we're in the car listening to music, it's just me listening to music and her scrolling. I'm starting to struggle initiating conversations because she's simply not paying attention. Whenever we're out, half her time is spent through the lense of her phone so she can take photos for her story.
She refuses to admit its a problem, disregards any argument I put forward about how it's disrupting her life, and when I really sit down with her and tell her how it makes me feels, she attacks me about the time I spend at my laptop (which I track meticulously and know its at most an hour outside of work, so she is simply using it as a defense).
I've dated girls with drug addictions before, and it was easier than this because they at least admitted it was a problem. I feel like I can't even initiate the first step with her. It's crushing, because besides this issue, she's pretty much perfect.
The Power of Habit (the book) helped me identify my bad habits the moment they triggered.
Also, what's fascinating is that addictions seem to bundle together. If I get off the sauce, start working out, etc, it becomes immediately easier to ignore the phone, social media, and other reflexive behavior, like snacking for no reason.
One way I think about it: Marvin Minsky long ago wrote a book called Society of Mind, looking at human cognition as a series of semi-independent non-conscious agents. If I feel bad long enough, there's a collection of feel-better-in-the-short-term agents that work well together: mindless snacking, doomscrolling, playing video games, binge watching, overeating etc. Basically anything that helps me avoid being present in feeling bad. Even if in the long term they make me feel worse.
But there's a competing set of agents, the ones that mean regular exercise and eating healthily and good sleep and low stress levels. That set not only works well when I'm feeling good, but they're what helps keep me feeling good in the long term.
Either set can achieve a stable equilibrium, but the two sets aren't really compatible.
Not sure if that makes any sense, but that's one way I think about it.
That sent shivers down my spine, wow.
Zuck, Zynga, all of them can be launched into deep space for all I care.
[0]https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-44224319
> have you ever used/applied "internet slang" (cringe, based, cuck, chad) in/to real-life situations?
I take slight issue with this one. To me, there is no difference between “internet slang” and just “slang”. The internet is ubiquitous and the language we use online and offline is largely the same now.
Didn’t always be this way. I still remember the first time I heard a friend say “epic fail” in really life circa 2005 or so, and it was like some sort of glass wall had been broken between our real lives and our internet lives. But that wall is long gone, and I think that’s probably okay.
I remember before I deleted my FB account (I've since created a new one), my buddy said to me that I'd be ok, just that I might be strongly disconnected from culture—not necessarily to tell me to not do it, but to be aware of the potential ramifications.
What we do online effects our every day life even when we are offline.
I thought that was very sane thinking
Those Reddit threads make for good entertainment today, however fake they probably usually are. But for better or worse, some day, I suspect it's going to flip around.
In short - I think it's not what's said, as much as how it's said.
Some yes, otherwise you'd be surprised... In many circles and communities it's not the same at all - and even developments the 'social media'-inmates take for well known, are not a thing discussed at all...
It's like the "silent majority" of working programmers, who don't give a duck about HN, Rust, the latest trends in web and backend, and so on...
IMO, Internet slang is accurate as it transcends geography while there is some locality to slangs and vernacular.
The whole experience was a wake-up call, not just in terms of being arrested but being without a computer or any way to get online for a couple of weeks.
It really made me realize how 'addicted' I was to the internet, and going cold turkey was horrible, time slowed down and I was sure I was missing out on everything.
But I read so much more and all the days seemed longer (time dragged so much) and then when I finally got back online I hadn't missed sh*t.
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You're reading all the time on the internet, it's literally the foundational enabling skill of it.
I find it very weird when people say the benefit of being offline is they "read more".
The experience is not the same as sitting down and reading a 300 page book cover to cover which is also the product of an author sitting down and spending months or even years writing it. Of course that experience is definitely possible on the Internet - ebooks/PDF. But someone "reading" social media is not the same as really reading.
Reading online doesn't feel like reading. Most offline material is long form and has a clear purpose, otherwise it wouldn't continue existing. When you read it you are more likely to come away fulfilled, with new thoughts and ideas to process. You can't usually say the same coming away from most social network type interactions on the internet - You might have satiated your FOMO temporarily, but otherwise will likely feel empty. Obviously it's not all like that, there exists long form content on the web, but that's not really what we are talking about.
I don't see anywhere where contempt is shown, in fact quite the opposite. The post is written in a very empathetic way in my opinion, and I think displays a good level of insight into, and understanding of, the attractiveness of things that can do harm.
I'd challenge you to entertain the idea that this post has some good advice, and follow some of it. I have no data, but I expect you'll be happier as a result.
> I'd challenge you to entertain the idea that this post has some good advice, and follow some of it. I have no data, but I expect you'll be happier as a result.
Personally, I don't fit any of the implied criteria for "terminal onlineness," so your challenge isn't possible. You don't merely lack data, you lack a valid reason for assuming this advice applies to me or any other person whose habits you know nothing about. I recommend you entertain the idea that neither righteousness in your conviction nor confidence in your words transform your assumptions and personal experiences into broadly applicable maxims.
Even if this advice addresses problems you, personally, struggle with, that's not necessarily true for everybody. I know brilliant, happy, well-adjusted people, like my wife, who engage in behavior this author deems undesirable. It's just not that cut and dried. Perhaps the author's conclusions suffer from sampling bias? Regardless, I will still skip the rest of their blog entries.
In contrast, I'd be interested in reading something on the same topic that was presented in a subjective way, where the author isn't hiding their personal relationship to the topic. For example, "I was terminally online and here's why and how I changed". Or "my friend was terminally online and I like that they stopped". Or even "here's why I am frustrated dealing with terminally online people".
But for me, the pseudo-expert advice from somebody with no obvious expertise and no claim of it leaves me cold. I don't understand why I should care what they think, or why I should trust them.
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My Twitter feed is a collection of funniest, most deranged takes on any subject. People IRL have no chance to compete, no one can outdo the best two seconds of 800 people.
Same with HN. Conversations like these are rarely happening offline.
And then there are communities I sunk into. Private forums I have been a member of for nearly a decade. I know the in-jokes, we follow the stories of more interesting (chaotic) posters, there's even some real emotional investment.
All of that reachable fully asynchronously. Went to the gym alone? Read between the sets. Waiting for something? It's right there on your phone. Sadly, also, someone being boring... well, better stuff is in your pocket.
May I suggest that you might be looking in the wrong places offline?
HN-style discussions are a staple of lunchtime banter at any number of tech firms. Likewise you can find similar discussions at any number of universities, or on the tech conference circuit. Not to mention your local nerd-leaning special-interest communities (be it tabletop, D&D, hacker space, BDSM, etc).
The internet makes it really easy to find a community of folks who share similar interests, all without leaving your house. But unless you live in the middle of nowhere, one can generally find such a community IRL
The place that did that was a bad work environment; shockingly enough the "working" lunches weren't the worst habit they had either.
I think one mistake of perspective we have, when terminally-online and evaluating the alternative, is looking for other sources of passive constant stimulation as a substitute for social media feeds. Not bombarding your senses is part of the point. Daydreaming and thinking doesn't have to be boring, even just enjoying a moment of quiet.
Saying that, I think most people lack social validation in everyday life and try to satisfy it virtually. Having interesting conversation is separate from that, but also a consideration. We seem to be disappointed by our offline social lives but don't do a whole lot to rectify. That would require change (scary) and effort.
- 24/7: Late Capitalism and the Ends of Sleep" by Jonathan Crary
I changed to a white list to try and solve this problem, but then I just keep finding little bits of websites i need access to, to do what I want, the minute I disable something or find a solution, I just get around it somehow or need to turn it off and end up at square one.
I feel I tap into the " what is your life philosophy? what do you believe in? do the communities you browse online reflect this in some way? did you learn about these from people online?" this quite a lot.
The internet for me, is not about watching cute cat videos, but trying to learn more about life, philosophy, how to be a better human, productivity porn etc, maybe it's a big insecurity of mine, but I think about this stuff all the time and the internet is a unending resource for all this stuff, I figure that a great resource in solving and thinking about all these things, must be other people and there own thoughts and experiences that I can learn from and then integrate with my own thinking and the internet gives me unending access to that, or at least in theory it does.
So i'm reading through Hacking News, Reddit, blogs, watching youtube videos, podcasts etc, hoping to find those things and then I end up with a bunch of notes and documents etc, but it all kinda becomes overwhelming anyway, either from the content I am currently consuming or even all the thoughts and ideas I wrote down previous because I thought they where somehow useful.
I honestly don't know what to do about this anymore. I'm trying to figure out a system for living more simply and internet consumption is part of it, but also there is the bigger issue that i mentioned which I think is the primary driver of that internet consumption.
For me the best life hack to avoid wasting even more time is to rely on my Apple Watch to get phone calls and text messages, and leave my iPhone at home. This is sort of like using an old flip-phone because it takes accessing social media off the table.
My phone isn't actually the big distraction point for me, I don't have social media apps and barely use it, it's more my iMac and sometimes my iPad too.
I guess I need to find something that works for me, i'm yet to figure that out yet though.
You’re the only really technical person in the house, you’re the only one who can block you from doing things you know are bad for you, so you set up the software to do it, and then you have your spouse or a really good friend change the password. Now you can’t get back in without talking to them first.
IMO The internet is not usually a good way to learn this stuff. These are big life concepts that require deep focus and patience. The internet rewards the opposite of that.
The Big Concepts require both study and application. If you’re mostly spending time in the study phase, it’s not working.
I'm starting to just give up on it to be honest and consider more just trying to avoid this kind of information and figure out what works for me myself, my ultimate thought is to replace information consumption of this kinda thing with just more deep reflection and a bigger trial and error process.
I mean who are the people producing this content that I think will help me anyway? There just people, so I feel like I can figure it out myself maybe.
Even when cleaning i'm listening to these kinda podcasts etc, i don't know how much I get from it, I think I almost get more value from not listening to anything, as it allows my own thoughts to process.
I don't know. I feel kinda stuck with it all and this generally leads to two things, 1) Trying to find / consume more information 2) Overthinking that leads me to feeling more stuck and back to 1, i'm not sure quite what to do / where to turn, but maybe that is the issue, the whole 'where to turn' thought, is that same idea, wanting to figure out what information source will somehow make things different.
Also lack of scheduling, so every time I have to click to start, I often lose so much time in the morning just browsing before I get to work etc.
I think I've forgotten how I lived without a constant stream of information. I'm seriously tempted to get a dumb phone to remove temptation to browse when I have a few minutes to spare.
The stupid thing is for all my reading, I don't feel any wiser or even knowledgeable. At the same time I think I'm less able to engage in normal conversation.
Never to walk down the street looking at my phone. Eyes on the road. If I need to look at my phone, I stop somewhere out of the way of foot traffic.
All notifications are silent except calls or text messages from specific people. Calls from people I don't know and text messages get only a slow blinking light. Social media get no notifications.
When I am with someone or a group in person, phone goes away.
If I wouldn't allow someone to interrupt a conversation, the phone doesn't either. I won't answer it if someone is talking to me, especially something important. When there's a pause in the conversation, I'll ask politely to check to see who called.
Finally, and this might be the biggest, I am constantly listening to audiobooks and podcasts. It scratches that itch of needing constant stimulation, but I can still be aware of everything around me.
I hide recommended content, unsubscribe from everything, unfollow everything, and generally have a "don't call me, I'll call you" approach to information.
I went as far as removing pagination buttons on websites I tend to browse too much.
I also use Pocket to save more interesting articles. Combined with a "things I don't understand" to-do list, I spend more time reading about practical things instead of just browsing. I don't regret that sort of reading.
Also, having a library card at your local library gets you books to read, both physical books and eBooks through the Libby book reading app.
Anyway, congratulations on recognizing the problem: you are ahead of the game compared to most of my friends in real life and family.
> The stupid thing is for all my reading, I don't feel any wiser or even knowledgeable. At the same time I think I'm less able to engage in normal conversation.
100% if I spent all the time I spend online reading actual books, I'd be much better off.
Up until few month ago my phone did not even have data plan. I ordered it now but purely for business needs. I use my phone strictly for phone calls and as GPS (I have offline maps). I use another phone to control gizmos like drone. For everything else I use PC and since I spend enough time doing various physical activities I consider my life balanced.
I believe the author (and many other people giving this advice) are naive to the difference between “free time with mental energy to burn” — where a hobby is definitely the right answer — and “free time where you’ve already used all your mental energy for the day.”
50 years ago, someone who was mentally drained by evening-time would be “vegetating in front of the TV.” Today they’re “doomscrolling.” In both cases it’s not that they’re addicted to a certain behavior, but rather that this behavior is one of the only pastimes available to them in their current environmental context that can be executed when fully cognitively fatigued, and yet not tired enough to sleep.
I say “in their current environmental context” because living in certain places (e.g. most cities, suburbs) limits your options. In more rural areas, you can just go out for a long walk in nature, or spontaneously go fishing. In communities that are safe, walkable, and socially well-connected, you can go to a {cafe, park, mall, bar, community centre, church, …} and run into friends rather than strangers, and just hang out shooting the breeze until you get tired. But many people alive today are in environments where they have none of those options. They have to come up with a braindead pastime that can be done both alone and indoors. We didn’t evolve to do well in this situation! Anything you pick is going to end up not being very good for you!
(Before anyone suggests “reading” — you’re underestimating the level of cognitive fatigue many people reach. If you have enough mental energy at the end of the day to concentrate on reading a good book and getting the full effect of it — as opposed to having a good book just slide past you, or reading “junk food” op-ed blogposts — that’s great for you, but that amount of mental energy would also be sufficient to cook or practice an instrument. Reading — the kind that actually enriches your mind — is a hobby, not a pastime!)
I’ve come to the conclusion the best thing to do when I’m tired is get off the phone and go to sleep. Sometimes I don’t realize how tired I am until I realize I’m spending more and more time on the phone. A sleep tracker was really helpful for identifying this but I don’t have one anymore.