I apologize in advance, but it looks like it's my turn for social media big tech support.
I had a situation where OVH abused a PayPal authorization to charge me 1200€ for a "private cloud" credit I never asked. OVH refuses to refund me changing the reason for it every time, but well, that's another topic.
I filed a PayPal dispute, I added exchanges with OVH as evidence, where they constantly insist on me having this "credit" still available for me to use, and my insisting on not wanting it for any purpose (the 12€ I added were enough for my test) and not having ordered it.
Finally, PayPal ruled in favor of OVH claiming that I "never provided documentation to prove this credit".
Not only I did (OVH messages), but nobody asked me for evidence at any point: I could have provided extra information/screenshots where it is shown. I am positive OVH was requested multiple times for documentation to support their claims, but that was never the case for me, not sure if that's normal.
Now I'm stuck with an absurd amount of credit on a cloud service I have no use for (and worse, it expires in a year), and apparently there's no UI option for me to contest this PayPal ruling. Phoning them I found no option to talk to a person.
Other than lawyering up and contacting consumer protection organisations, what else is there to do? Anyone at PayPal can give me a hint?
Thanks in advance.
The terms you agreed to states claims can be settled with arbitration. Opening a claim will cost a couple hundred dollars and will move them to action immediately.
Here is a great thread how this worked out for another person on HN.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31567673
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For example, counter claims for damages, including but not limited to, the attorney fees of the opposing party.
I am an Anabaptist, and we are strongly against legal proceedings outside of extreme circumstance.
It's "legally binding", yes... but so is the initial contract.
However, when a corporation as large as PayPal blatantly ignores a significant financial claim from a singular individual rendering the individual helpless, it seems a bit extreme.
In this case you can use the system the Corporation set up to suppress your ability to fight back against them.
The obvious answer is to either avoid getting in the situation or to suck it up and account for getting ripped off as the price of learning. Vet your choices more carefully, use prepay, avoid systems where you don’t control the direct debiting of your accounts.
More generally, ask the question of your social group who will have specific knowledge and strategies that fit in with the rest of your social rules. Asking here seems like you would get poor advice because we don’t have much motivation to have learnt appropriate hacks for your issue, and mostly will have little experience of your issue.
Turn the other cheek, sure, but even Paul appealed to Caesar.
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I filed an arbitration using a service called FairShake (https://fairshake.com/), and finally they decided to settle with me. They said they will give me my money, but I can no longer use any of their services including Venmo. I agreed and took the money.
Happy to answer any questions regarding my experience, feel free to telegram me @tdpae
actually not necessarily even a new card if you’ve used AMEX Send thats valid in lieu of the exact same AMEX Card it was linked to
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structuring
Went to paypal. Attached death threats from company.
Paypal sided with the company.
I know we submitted evidence that a car we rented was a minorly damaged vehicle (it was marked on the sheet during the checkout) and then tried to bill us for the repair after taking the car back. We submitted pictures of the damaged car in the rental lot, the paper work indicating the damage. The car company rejected our dispute. The credit card company didn't. I even enlisted our french intern (native speaker) to call said company and ask what is going on. They got the run around ("French bureaucracy is the worst")
They even blocked when said car company tried to charge again after the rejection. Good times.
The FTC recently took Walmart to court over similar behavior, essentially profiting off of crime.
It sounds like PayPal is asking you to prove you did not receive the cloud credits.
But what you should do is say you did not purchase cloud credits.
There is a difference between an unauthorized charge and goods not received.
OVH argued that the charge was a credit and not the service itself and that I still have the credit (hence, it was delivered).
Then I said that the reason should be charge unauthorized, as I canceled precisely because of the unexpected amount of the bill, and I didn't perform a credit. The reason switched mid claim.
PayPal finally said that I didn't prove I had credit on OVH, which is indeed confusing (meaning I didn't spend it?). If I didn't order it shouldn't matter what's on their platform.
If the order was canceled then how can it be claimed not received? The charge occurring on a canceled order is an unauthorized charge. I'd recommend to file that type of claim. They are different and OVH is being terse. It's something you can do before you call Saul.
How can I provide evidence for an item I never received? All I had was the listing and the contemts of the package, yet Paypal sided with the seller. I quit using Paypal then and there, and won't touch them with a ten foot pole. A very consumer-hostile company.
At this point I've given up using eBay due to it. The scammers on both sides know exactly what to say and do to somehow win even if you can prove you shipped the item / the item could never have been shipped to you (ah yes, a 13oz package somehow contained this heavy equipment).
Eventually he sent me a $7 partial refund and then I was locked out of doing anything at all. I even tried contacting eBay and because it had taken so long they were no longer liable. Frustrating, but I just let it go.
you could start by forwarding "I contacted the seller but they refused to ship batteries "
With your initial dispute of "order not received", they pointed to the 1200€ credit and said, "here's what you ordered". This credit does indeed disprove any claim of "I didn't get anything for the 1200€ I was charged".
The problem is you don't want to receive any order; you want there to be no order at all, and no exchange of 1200€.
Which version of PayPal checkout did they use? I think there's a standard PayPal checkout, where you complete the transaction at a PayPal-hosted page. And there's an "express" PayPal checkout, where you login to a PayPal-hosted popup to complete some initial authorization, then complete the checkout process on the merchant-hosted site.
I think there would have been some point where you authorized a 1200€ payment on a PayPal-hosted site, do you recall that step? I think that step is critical to your claim here that they should return your money.
You mentioned "They had authorization for recurring payments, so they pulled those 1200 without my interaction." And also, "at no point that amount was shown to me" How did they get that authorization? Could you reproduce the checkout flow up to the point of PayPal authorization to see if the 1200 amount is shown in the PayPal-hosted part of the checkout flow, and whether it's hidden in the merchant-hosted portion of the flow?