Whispers from Inmates say Ross Ulbricht is having a horrible time in prison, unable to adjust to the culture and politics of it. Prison is a dangerous place, and it's said he's very much not doing well.
If this helps provide himself with some prison currency being able to buy from the store, that could go a long way towards helping him have something to trade to help the living hell he is going through.
On one hand, that makes sense if we think of him as just the person who built the computer platform, but on the other this is the logic the courts used to justify his sentence:
"Using the online moniker “Dread Pirate Roberts,” or “DPR,” ULBRICHT controlled and oversaw every aspect of Silk Road, and managed a staff of paid, online administrators and computer programmers who assisted with the day-to-day operation of the site. Through his ownership and operation of Silk Road, ULBRICHT reaped commissions worth more than $13 million generated from the illicit sales conducted through the site. ULBRICHT also demonstrated a willingness to use violence to protect his criminal enterprise and the anonymity of its users, soliciting six murders-for-hire in connection with operating the site, although there is no evidence that these murders were actually carried out."
Should a drug kingpin who built a global network that facilitated the transfer of illegal substances who was willing to kill people to protect that enterprise only get 10 years?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for drugs to be decriminalized in the US, but where the line is crossed for me is that this person was willing to KILL others in service of making money.
If he'd "just" run a marketplace for illegal everythings, you might be able to make an argument.
When it crosses into "casually ordering multiple murders he believed happened," then, no, I'm sorry, you're not just running a marketplace. You deserve to be behind bars for a long, long time. The only reason that nobody actually died from that was because he was surrounded by scammers and informants, and didn't realize this. But incompetence is no defense against ordering multiple murders.
The thing is, prison has a lot of variances. A life sentence in prison has him in the darkest prison world.
Martin Shkreli was in the easiest parts of prison for example. Ross is in the lifer prison with the hardest criminals.
It's said he's struggling a lot because you have to join the racist white groups in lifer prison, and his morals don't allow that. But you have to, or you have no protection, and may get killed.
The US prison system is a far scarier place than anyone thinks about. You essentially have to stay blind to what happens inside, or you couldn't with good conscious send anyone there.
Yes, but he's not unique. In fact, he's much less sympathetic that most of the people in there with him.
I find it quite sad that people on this site will say things like "it was unjust for allegations not proved at trial to be used against him at sentencing" and yet always believe that this same logic shouldn't apply to the "average bad person". The logical extension of the arguments below you is at a minimum support for someone like Chesa Boudin. Probably it's far further than what Boudin's (at least publicly) expressed.
(Quotes not direct. Combinations of things I've heard many different people say differently)
> If this helps provide himself with some prison currency being able to buy from the store, that could go a long way towards helping him have something to trade to help the living hell he is going through.
Or it will make him even more a target because he has access to resources.
It's more likely they'd target him because he's unwilling/unable to defend himself. I've read a lot about the US prison system and culture, giving stuff away doesn't get you respect or friendship.
Also to note most commissary stores have monthly purchase limits. Doesn't matter how much money your account has, you still have the same access to commissary as everyone else.
Also if you're into podcasts the Crypto Critics Corner episode with Nicholas Weaver [2], who was involved in the trial to a small degree, is really good. [1]
Yes, it is reasonable to assume so. The DEA coined the term, right?
It seems like mass surveillance provided by intelligence was likely used to locate relevant computers but that is not what was introduced in court to the best of my knowledge.
liquid market: think of it as $3B worth of demand-for-BTC that's *not* buying bitcoin on the spot market and propping up the buy-side of the exchanges...
That is not how it works, the price will move via market liquidity - the people buying / selling bitcoin at a given time, the coins sitting in wallets (over 90%) have no effect. This source says it took $91M to move the price of bitcoin by 1% (about a year ago), bigger shifts could have a cascading effect. https://cointelegraph.com/news/bank-of-america-claims-it-cos...
Very interesting, especially since SDNY had no idea about this and wasn't involved in coordinating this agreement
The longer Ross is in there, the more friends in high places he will have, as so many people become familiar with online marketplaces, bitcoin lore, education about the technology, the corruption of the investigators, trial judge, unsatisfactory testimony by “expert witness”, circular logic to undermine bill of rights protections for defendant, withheld evidence (that is not deemed exculpatory by the appeals court, but could have swayed a jury regardless) and seeing that this problem with Ross is still ongoing
So many cases have been dropped for waaaaay fewer procedural problems
To see this level of unorthordox coordination ongoing with the Federal Government and Ross, I am pretty confident other individuals will be able to use their employment and status in the public sector to alter Ross’ conditions in his favor
I thought it was weird nobody considered donating to a Trump campaign or PAC in exchange for a desired outcome, in 2020 convicts and senators did that to mitigate consequences
Free Ross raises enough money and have enough friends to get the conversations going, as seen by this article, so not doing that path seemed to have lacked inspiration
Its easy to have tunnel vision, that path was still obvious. It is important that he also doesn't have to pay restitution, but I feel like the state sanctioned Presidential pay for play available in the US would have absolved that too
Ross's story is heartbreaking honestly. Yes the guy basically built the Amazon of drugs, yes he should have done prison time for it. But FFS 2X life without possibility of parole.
This guys has maybe one chance left and that's if a sympathetic President gets elected and pardons him.
Pardoning someone that was found guilty of running a massive drug operation doesn't seem like an optic that is popular for a lot of presidential candidates.
Maybe if the Libertarian Party manages to win the presidency?
He was bragging “they’ll never catch me” (Forbes interview). He made the US govt and DEA look like fools.
So they made an example out of him.
If he was smart he should kept a lower profile and his first interaction with police (the multiple fake IDs) he should have shut it all down or pass the site to someone else.
So because you pissed off someone in the government you get life in jail? That's not justice. That could be what happened but idk I hate the idea he's not getting released and IIRC he killed noone and robbed noone
In a civilized country such as many developed countries in Europe a life sentence is roughly fifteen to twenty years. That is a remarkably long time. It is an extreme punishment.
There are exceptions for psycho killers like Anders Breivik. Ulbrich would be unlikely to fall into the Breivik category. His prison conditions would not be so brutal either, see again Breivik for an example. If you believe he deserves life, do you believe he deserves brutality in prison?
He is by many international legal definitions a political prisoner found guilty of what appear as obviously relative political crimes and likely even absolute political crimes. His politics were core to his supposed criminal activities in the war on some drugs. His investigation and prosecution was tainted. Several of the involved officers committed blatant crimes for personal gain for which they were later arrested, charged, and convicted. Those same state agents appear to have alleged the murder for hire, which is somehow not entrapment and yet considered credible.
In 1769, William Blackstone said “the law holds that it is better that 10 guilty persons escape, than that 1 innocent suffer (innocent person be convicted).”
Morally and in principle, especially in a tainted investigation with misbehaving Government agents, the guilty should be let go. Perhaps you don’t agree - either way, there is an appearance of a two tier legal system.
The system that jails Ross but lets very wealthy pharmacy company owners off with thousands of confirmed deaths, people who produced, marketed, and sold similar and sometimes identical drugs exclusively for profit are punished with a fine.
Those charges were dropped and there was never a trial related to them let alone the evidence to actually convict on it. Anyone can be accused of crimes and later have the charges dropped.
Readit News
If this helps provide himself with some prison currency being able to buy from the store, that could go a long way towards helping him have something to trade to help the living hell he is going through.
"Using the online moniker “Dread Pirate Roberts,” or “DPR,” ULBRICHT controlled and oversaw every aspect of Silk Road, and managed a staff of paid, online administrators and computer programmers who assisted with the day-to-day operation of the site. Through his ownership and operation of Silk Road, ULBRICHT reaped commissions worth more than $13 million generated from the illicit sales conducted through the site. ULBRICHT also demonstrated a willingness to use violence to protect his criminal enterprise and the anonymity of its users, soliciting six murders-for-hire in connection with operating the site, although there is no evidence that these murders were actually carried out."
Should a drug kingpin who built a global network that facilitated the transfer of illegal substances who was willing to kill people to protect that enterprise only get 10 years?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for drugs to be decriminalized in the US, but where the line is crossed for me is that this person was willing to KILL others in service of making money.
When it crosses into "casually ordering multiple murders he believed happened," then, no, I'm sorry, you're not just running a marketplace. You deserve to be behind bars for a long, long time. The only reason that nobody actually died from that was because he was surrounded by scammers and informants, and didn't realize this. But incompetence is no defense against ordering multiple murders.
https://bitcoinmagazine.com/culture/inside-silk-road-staged-... has a lot of details on the absurdities surrounding it, but DPR genuinely did believe he'd ordered people killed.
Martin Shkreli was in the easiest parts of prison for example. Ross is in the lifer prison with the hardest criminals.
It's said he's struggling a lot because you have to join the racist white groups in lifer prison, and his morals don't allow that. But you have to, or you have no protection, and may get killed.
The US prison system is a far scarier place than anyone thinks about. You essentially have to stay blind to what happens inside, or you couldn't with good conscious send anyone there.
I find it quite sad that people on this site will say things like "it was unjust for allegations not proved at trial to be used against him at sentencing" and yet always believe that this same logic shouldn't apply to the "average bad person". The logical extension of the arguments below you is at a minimum support for someone like Chesa Boudin. Probably it's far further than what Boudin's (at least publicly) expressed.
(Quotes not direct. Combinations of things I've heard many different people say differently)
Deleted Comment
Or it will make him even more a target because he has access to resources.
Also to note most commissary stores have monthly purchase limits. Doesn't matter how much money your account has, you still have the same access to commissary as everyone else.
[1] https://cryptocriticscorner.com/2021/12/30/episode-40-the-si...
[2] https://www2.eecs.berkeley.edu/Faculty/Homepages/nweaver.htm...
It seems like mass surveillance provided by intelligence was likely used to locate relevant computers but that is not what was introduced in court to the best of my knowledge.
The audiobook is great too
If so I wonder how the crypto market will react to that
I am interested in crypto, but I really don’t want to be a retail schmuck buying tainted coins. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30224637S
The longer Ross is in there, the more friends in high places he will have, as so many people become familiar with online marketplaces, bitcoin lore, education about the technology, the corruption of the investigators, trial judge, unsatisfactory testimony by “expert witness”, circular logic to undermine bill of rights protections for defendant, withheld evidence (that is not deemed exculpatory by the appeals court, but could have swayed a jury regardless) and seeing that this problem with Ross is still ongoing
So many cases have been dropped for waaaaay fewer procedural problems
To see this level of unorthordox coordination ongoing with the Federal Government and Ross, I am pretty confident other individuals will be able to use their employment and status in the public sector to alter Ross’ conditions in his favor
I thought it was weird nobody considered donating to a Trump campaign or PAC in exchange for a desired outcome, in 2020 convicts and senators did that to mitigate consequences
Free Ross raises enough money and have enough friends to get the conversations going, as seen by this article, so not doing that path seemed to have lacked inspiration
Its easy to have tunnel vision, that path was still obvious. It is important that he also doesn't have to pay restitution, but I feel like the state sanctioned Presidential pay for play available in the US would have absolved that too
This guys has maybe one chance left and that's if a sympathetic President gets elected and pardons him.
Deleted Comment
Maybe if the Libertarian Party manages to win the presidency?
He should have taken the plea.
So they made an example out of him.
If he was smart he should kept a lower profile and his first interaction with police (the multiple fake IDs) he should have shut it all down or pass the site to someone else.
But hey ego and hubris gets the best of us.
There are exceptions for psycho killers like Anders Breivik. Ulbrich would be unlikely to fall into the Breivik category. His prison conditions would not be so brutal either, see again Breivik for an example. If you believe he deserves life, do you believe he deserves brutality in prison?
He is by many international legal definitions a political prisoner found guilty of what appear as obviously relative political crimes and likely even absolute political crimes. His politics were core to his supposed criminal activities in the war on some drugs. His investigation and prosecution was tainted. Several of the involved officers committed blatant crimes for personal gain for which they were later arrested, charged, and convicted. Those same state agents appear to have alleged the murder for hire, which is somehow not entrapment and yet considered credible.
In 1769, William Blackstone said “the law holds that it is better that 10 guilty persons escape, than that 1 innocent suffer (innocent person be convicted).”
Morally and in principle, especially in a tainted investigation with misbehaving Government agents, the guilty should be let go. Perhaps you don’t agree - either way, there is an appearance of a two tier legal system.
The system that jails Ross but lets very wealthy pharmacy company owners off with thousands of confirmed deaths, people who produced, marketed, and sold similar and sometimes identical drugs exclusively for profit are punished with a fine.
Those charges were dropped and there was never a trial related to them let alone the evidence to actually convict on it. Anyone can be accused of crimes and later have the charges dropped.