Uzi battled Nissan motor company because the company thought they had the right to take the domain from a man who had registered it because it's his surname. Nissan Motors should have been slapped with a massive punitive fine for that, but instead they continued to bleed Mr. Uzi Nissan of his resources by suing him repeatedly.
Memo to Nissan Motor Company: it was because of this act of lawfare that I personally renounced ever buying a Nissan again (even though the Altima and Maxima were excellent cars). You deserve to be punished for your actions. I regret that refusing to give you my business isn't worth more.
If you look at his site, when it was a computer shop, fine. Then he started running ads (really trying to profit off nissan motor's brand) related to cars. Then he got taken to court. He played off like a victim forever.
Did he have a legitimate reason to buy the domain originally? Absolutely.
Did he infringe on Nissan's trademark? Almost surely, which is why he was forced to stop.
No real good guy in this story.
What's my background on this? I helped build the most comprehensive database for domain name legal cases (https://udrp.tools) and tend to be involved in areas regarding domain name registrant rights. IP lobby is already way too strong, picking something like Nissan.com as the rallying call really isn't the right move. There is going to be some balance.
The french government intervened in a case and took france.com from the owner claiming sole right to using 'France'
That is bullshit. ICANN is also trying to take away domain name holder's rights to even go to court at all, in case it's an IGO (https://freespeech.com/2022/05/18/icann-igo-working-group-ch...). IGO thinks your domain infringes on your rights? You have zero recourse, and they want to grant immunity from the legal system.
There are some real fucking injustices happening in the domain world that nobody is paying attention too. Nissan.com isn't one of them.
What's wrong with running cars ads on his own websites? Unless he misled his visitors into thinking his site is official nissan motors website, I don't see anything wrong with running some ads on it.
I agree with you but honestly if it was another person named Toyota who purchased toyota.com, they would definitely be pursued/sued by Toyota as well. Large Corporations are powerful and will do everything they can to get what they want. It just happens to be Nissan in this case. So I wouldn't treat them any different than the others to be honest.
> Large Corporations are powerful and will do everything they can to
get what they want.
In the scheme of ethical philosophy there is, pretty much by
definition, the most extreme position of "might is right". The
principle text on which is attributed to one "Ragnar Redbeard" [1].
The philosophy is simple. I may rob you, rape you, vandalise, ransack,
lie, pillage and kill, for the one simple reason that I am stronger
and you are the weaker. And the "rule of law" (insofar as it can
exist) must recognise that as my legitimate right. It is obviously an
infantile fantasy. Yet I see it echoed in various forms within these
pages.
First of all, it is something that nobody of sound mind believes,
other than as a pose. It is an anchor point, a strawman from which to
develop real ethical positions.
But most of all, it's a fantasy we occasionally wish as true, because
if it were, these so-called "powerful corporations" would be reduced
to dust and ruin within days by those the real powers in this world
who exercise patient restraint.
In Germany Nissan Motors would have got the domain.
According to german law
"A private person with that name had priority over someone not called that. A company of that name, or a company with a registered trademark has precedence over a person of that name. A city or municipality has the highest precedence"
not necessarily at all. A rational company would have offered a sum that to them was minuscule part of advertising budget, but a fortune for a single person.
My understanding was that Nissan hadn't even made an offer before suing him for 10M, at least that is how the story goes. They probably could have just offered him a million, or 10, and everyone is happy. Being they are a "large" corporation and all.
It's customary even for BigCos to make an offer to buy the domain first.
It's entirely possible the registrant of a toyota.com (if Toyota the company didn't get it first) would have been made an offer for the domain that would have been easy to accept. Nissan (the owner of nissan.com) was never made a fair offer for his domain.
For folks who haven't read the whole story, the issue Uzi took with them was that they never even made him an offer to buy it, they jumped straight to litigation. He said he would have sold it to them for a reasonable price had they not chosen litigation as their first approach.
That is not the right way to look at things. You should not be harassed legally because someone with more resources wants what is rightfully yours. They can offer to buy, you can decline.
>Large Corporations are powerful and will do everything they can to get what they want
that may be so, but it doesn't make it a good thing, or something we should accept. corporatism is bleeding the world dry, and nearly everyone seems content to sit back and watch. corporations will be corporations, we lament, but resolutely fail to do anything about
fwiw, you are not the only person who avoided buying Nissan over this lawsuit. While they may never be able to see the impact their decisions have had on their bottom line, it is likely more than most people would guess.
I think he's implying that his boycott imposed a cost on him, and therefore had more meaning, because had they behaved differently, he would have liked to have owned a Nissan.
Nissan/Nisan has apparently been the first month of spring in the Hebrew calendar for millennia. And it was borrowed from the Babylonians/Akkadians/Sumerians so I assume it's considerably older in origin.
Does one guy whose name it happens to be really own it more than Nissan Motor Company?
I wonder if Mazda has faced any objections from Zoroastrians.
We justify our actions based on what we've seen others do, not what we believe they would do. That's at least why I wouldn't buy a Nissan, but I'll still buy a different car brand. Until/if that car brand does something equally stupid, then I'll stop buying their cars too.
Should domains be first come first serve though? Why?
Almost 100% of people when they hear "Nissan" think of the car company, so why should that domain direct to some random guy who happened to claim it first?
Why should corporations have more of a claim to property or resources than individuals, just because more people know of them? If they were exercising phishing attacks then fair enough, but if they had a personal website of some sort on there, why the hell should a company get it just because they have the same name?
Right, but then does McDonalds the burger place get priority, or McDonalds Plumbing, which has been in business longer than the restraunt has existed?
An Even better example is what if Apple Music had registered Apple.com first? At the time, many, many more people had heard of the beatles then computer company in California.
True, but then you can't register a domain under your name because it happens to exist a company with the same name?
I understand trying to prevent people form registering domains they don't have anything to do with just because they're looking to sell them for a high price to somebody that has actually an use for them, but I'm against the idea of extending this to the case of people registering their own name.
When I first heard about this back in High School, I had the same reaction. I hope they put back up the old website or at least a memorial page for him.
I was discussing trademarks and domains with somebody today and tried to show them my favorite long-standing trademark dispute nissan.com but it appears all of the website content has been taken down in May 2022.
The UDRP ("Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy" - the arbitration process all domain name disputes go through - you have little choice as mandated by ICANN for all domain name registrars) has been hopelessly broken in favor of the pursuer for a long time. It's a pursuer pays system; surprise surprise pursuers almost always win. UDRP panels are run by private firms of typically retired judges looking to cash in for easy work, selected by WIPO ("World Intellectual Property Organisation") . WIPO love the UDRP, because for the first time its given them real teeth to enforce something directly. Similarly, if you don't respond to a UDRP notification the case is almost always decided against you and you lose control of the domain, regardless of the merits of the case.
If you want to look up some really terrible UDRP decisions regarding things that can't typically be trademarked under almost all legal systems (place and family names etc), the barcelona.com case is pretty famous. Same too with mcdonalds.com. Nissan.com is just another example sadly.
There have even been UDRP cases where the panel has claimed using WHOIS anonymization was an "act of bad faith" and handed the domain to the pursuer. It's a wild system.
Uzi Nissan was one of the more interesting people I met as a freelancer in college. He replied to a craigslist ad and we met for coffee. He had some crazy ideas (and conspiracies:) about all the things he wanted to hire a freelancer to do with nissan.com
While the content of the website appears to be down now, according to the whois[1], the website registration itself with it being registered to Nissan Computer Corp. does not expire until 2024.
My brother owns (our last name.com). Our great great grandfather started and ran a fairly successful (pre-prohibition) brewery. Someone found out about our last name, trademarked it, and "restarted" the brewery with no relation to anyone in our family. The best part is they feigned ignorance when they "learned" that there were still living descendants in the area...
Good question. We've talked to various lawyers throughout the years. The crappy part is that the people who resurrected it have hundreds of millions in real estate backed ventures (big $$$), so there's really not much we can do aside from pound sand considering we weren't brewing the beer, or enforcing the trademark. The even weirder thing is that they used his name as their contact email for the longest time on their website, made a brew dedicated to my late grandfather (a pediatrician they never met) based on tongue-depresser airplanes he made for his patients, and even had the gall to leave one of their first bottled brews at my great great grandfather's gravesite.
So the only thing I can do is just raise awareness, and tell people who ask me if there is any relation (when they see/hear my last name) to not support them!
Say I feel a lot of respect to e.g. Amelia Earhart, so much so that I want to establish an air-exploration company and name it Earhart Air Explorers. Do I need to get an approval from all of her descendants first?
I used to work at a web firm that did Nissan USA's web site. I was in meetings where they discussed ways they would finally get the domain from Uzi. They obviously never succeeded.
I did learn a lot about trademark law despite myself.
That's the thing about corporations: they outlive people. It took Disney 79 years and the trade of a sportscaster's career to get Oswald the Lucky Rabbit back, but they did it.
Readit News
Memo to Nissan Motor Company: it was because of this act of lawfare that I personally renounced ever buying a Nissan again (even though the Altima and Maxima were excellent cars). You deserve to be punished for your actions. I regret that refusing to give you my business isn't worth more.
If you look at his site, when it was a computer shop, fine. Then he started running ads (really trying to profit off nissan motor's brand) related to cars. Then he got taken to court. He played off like a victim forever.
Did he have a legitimate reason to buy the domain originally? Absolutely.
Did he infringe on Nissan's trademark? Almost surely, which is why he was forced to stop.
No real good guy in this story.
What's my background on this? I helped build the most comprehensive database for domain name legal cases (https://udrp.tools) and tend to be involved in areas regarding domain name registrant rights. IP lobby is already way too strong, picking something like Nissan.com as the rallying call really isn't the right move. There is going to be some balance.
If you want egregious, lookup france.com
https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/supreme-court-wont-...
The french government intervened in a case and took france.com from the owner claiming sole right to using 'France'
That is bullshit. ICANN is also trying to take away domain name holder's rights to even go to court at all, in case it's an IGO (https://freespeech.com/2022/05/18/icann-igo-working-group-ch...). IGO thinks your domain infringes on your rights? You have zero recourse, and they want to grant immunity from the legal system.
There are some real fucking injustices happening in the domain world that nobody is paying attention too. Nissan.com isn't one of them.
In the scheme of ethical philosophy there is, pretty much by definition, the most extreme position of "might is right". The principle text on which is attributed to one "Ragnar Redbeard" [1].
The philosophy is simple. I may rob you, rape you, vandalise, ransack, lie, pillage and kill, for the one simple reason that I am stronger and you are the weaker. And the "rule of law" (insofar as it can exist) must recognise that as my legitimate right. It is obviously an infantile fantasy. Yet I see it echoed in various forms within these pages.
First of all, it is something that nobody of sound mind believes, other than as a pose. It is an anchor point, a strawman from which to develop real ethical positions.
But most of all, it's a fantasy we occasionally wish as true, because if it were, these so-called "powerful corporations" would be reduced to dust and ruin within days by those the real powers in this world who exercise patient restraint.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Might_Is_Right
Valve, despite controlling something like 80% of PC game sales, hasn't gone after the owner guy who owns steam.com
According to german law "A private person with that name had priority over someone not called that. A company of that name, or a company with a registered trademark has precedence over a person of that name. A city or municipality has the highest precedence"
My understanding was that Nissan hadn't even made an offer before suing him for 10M, at least that is how the story goes. They probably could have just offered him a million, or 10, and everyone is happy. Being they are a "large" corporation and all.
It's entirely possible the registrant of a toyota.com (if Toyota the company didn't get it first) would have been made an offer for the domain that would have been easy to accept. Nissan (the owner of nissan.com) was never made a fair offer for his domain.
that may be so, but it doesn't make it a good thing, or something we should accept. corporatism is bleeding the world dry, and nearly everyone seems content to sit back and watch. corporations will be corporations, we lament, but resolutely fail to do anything about
Etoys got a US judge to seize the etoy.com domain name.
Etoy launched back with Toy War. A gamified activist platform were participants could earn points by attacking Etoys.
https://etoy.com/projects/toywar/
Dead Comment
why advertise for them for free?
Does one guy whose name it happens to be really own it more than Nissan Motor Company?
I wonder if Mazda has faced any objections from Zoroastrians.
Almost 100% of people when they hear "Nissan" think of the car company, so why should that domain direct to some random guy who happened to claim it first?
An Even better example is what if Apple Music had registered Apple.com first? At the time, many, many more people had heard of the beatles then computer company in California.
Which leads to scalpers trying to buy out brand names ahead of the corporations so they'll be offered money for them later?
Personally, I stopped buying Nissan cars because of bad experiences/failed transmissions right after warranty expired.
https://asiatimes.com/2022/06/former-nissan-executive-greg-k...
When I first heard about this back in High School, I had the same reaction. I hope they put back up the old website or at least a memorial page for him.
Perhaps in the 90s early 00s. Their CVT is known to be very problematic
Dead Comment
Here's one of the last standing copies: https://web.archive.org/web/20220406221134/https://nissan.co...
Oh, and digest.com where he told is lawsuit story is now for sale (http://digest.com/)
https://web.archive.org/web/20220402233023/https://digest.co...
If you want to look up some really terrible UDRP decisions regarding things that can't typically be trademarked under almost all legal systems (place and family names etc), the barcelona.com case is pretty famous. Same too with mcdonalds.com. Nissan.com is just another example sadly.
There have even been UDRP cases where the panel has claimed using WHOIS anonymization was an "act of bad faith" and handed the domain to the pursuer. It's a wild system.
> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/help/dndr/udrp-en
> https://www.icann.org/resources/pages/policy-2012-02-25-en
Example of what? The car company never won a UDRP case against Mr Nissan.
Nissan Motors vs. Nissan Computer - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25622386 - Jan 2021 (1 comment)
Nissan.com (is not owned by Nissan the car company) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24369990 - Sept 2020 (102 comments)
Nissan Motor's Lawsuit Against Us - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20680958 - Aug 2019 (1 comment)
Uzi Nissan Spent 8 Years Fighting Nissan Motor Company to Keep Nissan.com - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16670141 - March 2018 (83 comments)
Nissan Motors LawSuit Against Nissan Computer - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15919367 - Dec 2017 (5 comments)
Nissan vs. Nissan (2008) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10030968 - Aug 2015 (21 comments)
Why You Can’t Buy a Car on Nissan.com – Now I Know - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9692059 - June 2015 (4 comments)
Why Nissan.com Isn’t a Car Website - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6073980 - July 2013 (85 comments)
[1]: https://who.is/whois/nissan.com
So the only thing I can do is just raise awareness, and tell people who ask me if there is any relation (when they see/hear my last name) to not support them!
Say I feel a lot of respect to e.g. Amelia Earhart, so much so that I want to establish an air-exploration company and name it Earhart Air Explorers. Do I need to get an approval from all of her descendants first?
Deleted Comment
That's the thing about corporations: they outlive people. It took Disney 79 years and the trade of a sportscaster's career to get Oswald the Lucky Rabbit back, but they did it.
Deleted Comment
Was my thought, hope he had put this in his estate with some reasonable transfer procedure