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Posted by u/FrankLicea 3 years ago
Launch HN: Astro (YC W21) – Build your own dev teams in Latin America
Howdy HN! We’re Jacqueline and Frank from Astro (https://www.tryastro.com/). We’re a platform that gives you access to engineering talent in Latin America and lets you build teams there. We take care of the sourcing, payroll, HR, benefits, local procurement, and equipment, all from an easy-to-use dashboard. (Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmiVOVfbHFI)

Before starting Astro, we worked as leaders at the same company, Jacqueline in sales and Frank in engineering. As we built our teams, we found it was very hard to compete against top tech companies for talent. Therefore, we broadened our search beyond Austin, Texas.

We ended up working with various partners in Latin America because of the strong talent pool, great English, and US friendly time zones. However, finding and retaining engineering teams in Latin America was a challenge. We loved our teammates, but were never thrilled about the outsourcing firms they worked for. Because they weren’t our employees, we couldn’t control what they were being paid, couldn’t give them benefits and perks, and the only visibility we had was the $150/hr bill we got from the outsourcing company. How much of that actually went to the team?

Because traditional outsourcing firms tend to attract non-tech clients and their culture revolves around billable hours, our team members were also unsatisfied with the outsourcing company that they worked for. Freelancing could be an alternative, but is also difficult for teams in Latin America due to its inherent risk and likelihood of being treated as a second-class contractor on a foreign team rather than a first-class stakeholder.

We were stuck with three uncomfortable options: outsource the entire product, manage a large team of independent freelancers, or rely on an outsourcing company to create our engineering culture.

What we really wanted were our own teams, including our own offices, equipment, salaries, benefits, etc. But setting up a foreign entity and knowing how to hire in foreign markets was a distraction and difficult—not to mention payroll, benefits, procurement, legal compliance, etc.

We ultimately went to work at different companies, but continued to experience the same pain points at our new companies. Finally, in 2018, after commiserating many times over beers, we decided to build the company we kept looking for, a company to automatically handle all of these international complexities.

We originally called ourselves Austin Software and we started by building teams by hand for startups in Austin, Texas. Then, we started to realize we had gotten good at solving lots of problems on behalf of teams in the US: sourcing Macbooks, finding competitive local benefits and perks, legal compliance, even organizing happy hours, travel and SWAG. Our idea was to productize what we’d learned and make it available to other companies. We got tired of explaining that we build teams, not bill project hours! So we built Astro (“Austin Software Tool for Recommendations and Opportunities” :))

You can think of Astro as something like a love child between Toptal + Gusto + WeWork + Amazon (the latter because of the logistics we do — more on that below), tailored specifically for software engineering teams in LATAM. Unlike Toptal or Turing, we fulfill local benefits, equipment, even team-building events. Our pricing is also transparent, in contrast to companies that charge by the hour, upfront fees, or handcuff you to long-term contracts. Customers review and pay for 1) the developer’s desired salary, 2) benefits and taxes, and 3) our 15% management fee on a week-to-week basis.

Here’s one example of the kind of thing we take care of. A 16 inch M1 Macbook Pro is not just a perk in Latin America, they actually save countless hours when dealing with heavy dev environments. But they’re difficult to source in Latin America, especially outside of the handful of major cities. And even if they are sourced, they’re extremely expensive, especially if they know you’re an American company, and getting them to teammates across South America runs the risk of theft or damage. We solve this by having local entities, local logistics, local distribution and secure local offices.

We’re proud of the fact that developers in Latin America have a much better experience working with us. That’s because our customers (i.e. the companies using Astro) are looking to scale their engineering departments with long-term stakeholders, not temporary “horsepower”, and also because real tech culture (the sort of thing devs in Silicon Valley take for granted) is a huge draw for developers, but nearly impossible to find via outsourcing shops, and very hit-and-miss on Toptal/Turing.

We hope you’ll try us out! Visit https://www.TryAstro.com, and configure your desired team (See video tutorial and screenshots below if you're just curious). Astro will source, pre-vet, schedule interviews, send offer letters, manage employment contracts, and coordinate equipment, office space, and SWAG. Once that’s set up, you can use Astro to manage your team on an ongoing basis: salaries, bonuses, additional benefits, perks, equipment, etc.

Check out some screenshots here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/17qYsZLKrhPdE1Ud1LA5A... and a video tutorial here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmiVOVfbHFI

We’d love to hear your feedback and we’re excited to answer any questions!

Marcelovk · 3 years ago
I think that this is a fantastic idea.

Before the pandemic, all the good software development jobs were attached to big cities, and hardly any company accepted remote work. What would happen in many instances, is that companies from outside latam would pay a lot for relocating them (and their families) to other countries, commonly to US, Canada, Spain, Germany and UK - however a portion of those devs come back because there is a lot of value living in the countryside/smaller cities of latam when you have kids, it ends up with a better quality of life overall.

In the end those professionals (usually already seniors) open local companies to work as a contractor for their previous employer or any other company that accepts remote work and can pay invoices overseas, this way they end up keeping a high salary (especially when you consider the exchange rates) and the perks of working from home.

How would you hire/contact those professionals? Usually I get a lot of local agencies trying to contact me to work for outside, but offering local salaries, which makes absolutely no sense. In other words, how do you differentiate from Accenture/Thoughtworks or any other consultancy to hire the engineers?

FrankLicea · 3 years ago
Sure, because we're not a consulting agency, Astro is designed for teams that know finding good talent wherever they are located is a real risk to growth. Typically these kinds of companies are true technology companies and know the value of good people, so they often pay above market rates whenever they find the right person.

These kinds of companies don't typically use Thoughworks to develop their own product, but are willing to accept international logistical help to find and manage their own teammates.

jacsamira · 3 years ago
Yes, we couldn't agree more! People shouldn't have to uproot their life. My mom moved half-way around the world for work and building a family away from your family, while professionally necessary, was very hard on her and us. In today's modern society, it's simply not necessary anymore.

And to answer your question, top tech companies aren't usually price sensitive and are willing to pay for top talent. Because of our transparency in our fees, everyone knows what everyone is making and it's the developer who sets their own rate.

smallerfish · 3 years ago
Not to be a downer, but that's pretty expensive. I spent last week in [latam capital city] and met with 3 local outsourcing firms, down from 6 that I'd pre-screened by Zoom. I then reduced the list to 2 based on the co-founders of each being technical, and their solid recruiting practices. Both have offices which devs are free to come into (or work remotely), both pay salaries and offer benefits, both provide embedded developers with project managers in the background, both provide in house training and skills development. One charges $30/hr-$45/hr, one $40-$55, with the rate difference being based on the location of the devs (the cheaper range is 2 hours north of the metro area).

Both have accounts in the US which you can pay directly if you don't want to deal with wire transfers (though those also are easy). Both handle taxes.

moonchrome · 3 years ago
At those prices I'd expect inflating estimates, catfishing juniors by selling seniors in interview/contacts and splitting senior staff between multiple clients.

Basically that's the price range a senior developer can make on his own remoting on platforms like toptal - there's no buffer there for the agency cut unless they are some partnership or losing money to catch clients.

And best case scenario - they have decent devs available at those prices right now - it's likely they will figure out what I've said and cut out the middle man/work for some US client directly and get a 30% bump for little effort.

FrankLicea · 3 years ago
We kept encountering the same issues you mention.

Our teammates weren't satisfied with the outsourcing company and didn't like being interleaved between projects (formally or informally). And with negotiating down lower rates, the clients they tended to attract weren't exactly tech companies, which was uninspiring for our latam teammates.

We believe that by providing a platform that lets tech companies provide a premium developer experience, similar to the "Silicon Valley engineering culture", we can provide access to teammates that aren't typically found on Toptal/Turing nor at the typical outsourcing firm.

smallerfish · 3 years ago
They have decent devs, as I talked to several candidates. Both have high retention, under 10% churn. Devs are fully embedded, so there's no opportunity to split.
jacsamira · 3 years ago
Not a downer at all! We're not a fit for everyone. We totally get that. We let the devs set their prices, and then have a standard premium benefits package because we believe everyone should have silicon valley level perks. We're definitely not the cheapest, but we're invested in a long-term relationship for both parties and not just a cost-savings play. In our experience, turnover ends up being super high with low rates. But maybe you found some gems! I hope it works out. I really believe there is a need and an opportunity for everyone. We're just trying to do our part to help in any way we can.
Shorel · 3 years ago
Honestly, reading many comments from potential customers and their complaints, and then reading your answers, while me being from Colombia and knowing many developers who could benefit from your vision, I thank you.

While the others seem to care about cost-cutting to catering to their customers, you seem to also care about the developers, and this is a breath of fresh air. I hope many of my friends in Colombia will benefit from your initiative.

The idea of extending Silicon Valley level perks is the one that works in the long term. I wish you and the developers all the success.

eulercoder · 3 years ago
I want this too please Thank you so much!
mantas · 3 years ago
Do you want cheap price or smart people?

Coming from eastern europe, such sweatshops usually pay local salaries and attract junior people. If you have experience and ain't afraid of talking to clients... You cut the middleman and work with foreign clients directly.

woleium · 3 years ago
Would you be willing to share your research? my email is on my profile if you are.
smallerfish · 3 years ago
Sure, emailed.
andrew_ · 3 years ago
> Our pricing is also transparent

I'm sure there are reasons, but your pricing isn't truly transparent until I can find it from the homepage, without signing up for an account. Should I have to sign up with my burner/spam email address just to access that?

Edit: I'm not able to find the pricing even after creating an account. This isn't a great user experience for someone trying to figure out how much the platform might cost (and I'm actually in the market for this kind of thing)

FrankLicea · 3 years ago
Thanks for the feedback, I see your point! That's on oversight on our side, nothing nefarious intended, we'll have to figure how to best spell out the pricing.

Pricing-wise, I'd say the all-in fees on a per dev basis are comparable to a developer's salary here in the US (Austin, TX), the fees are all inclusive of benefits, tech equipment, offices, perks, etc...

When you decide to make an offer to someone, you'll get a break down of 1) the teammates's personal salary requirement), 2) the benefits and taxes and, 3) our management fee.

Because we don't set the rates, the candidates do (just like in the US), it's hard to say exactly what the price will be, it depends on the individual's requirements.

That said, we can def offer guidance on what the market tends to be!

rootsudo · 3 years ago
"Pricing-wise, I'd say the all-in fees on a per dev basis are comparable to a developer's salary here in the US, the fees are all inclusive of benefits, tech equipment, offices, perks, etc..."

Well, then as a USA based org, I'd have to say - what's the point? If it's comparable to a USA dev Salary, what savings/arbitrage/win a I achieving here? Wouldn't it be easier for a USA based company to just corp 2 corp/1099 or such someone onshore, then offshore and have a middle man?

andrew_ · 3 years ago
What percentage does Astro charge on top of that (e.g. management fee)? Where's the breakdown? You're claiming transparency but it looks fairly opaque. I'm not trying to be combative, merely pointing out the marketing pitch is at odds with the data available.
jacsamira · 3 years ago
Andrew, thank you for the feedback. This is something we'd love to be able to be better at and would love any advice you may have.

We send the rate with each developer. We don't have a flat rate; otherwise, that means we set the rate. The developers set their own rate and we send that over with their profiles after you state what you're looking for and who in our platform is a match.

What's a better way of going about this?

andrew_ · 3 years ago
I'd recommend some document that outlines the fees Astro charges based on selections for the teams. Any AWS pricing calculator is a decent model to use.
edferda · 3 years ago
Hey this looks pretty awesome. Currently I work in LATAM for international corporations and it is also hard for us, developers, to find a good fit. Dealing with Latin American agencies is always a pain, it seems Astro might attract companies that care more about their people and building quality, long term relationships. What are you doing to treat candidates like human beings? How do developers join your roster?
FrankLicea · 3 years ago
Thank you for the kind words! Your experience is exactly why we built Astro!

We do a few things 1) Astro provides a standard set of benefits and perks, this tends to attract companies with great culture, 2) Because Astro isn't a project-for-hire platform, this also attracts companies that need long-term teammates, and 3) the Astro team isn't scared to provide insight to companies on how to best retain their international teammates; salary reviews, career paths, meaningful local perks, and time off. We know that professionals in LATAM have lots of options.

See my email in my profile so I can tell you more about how to join the platform!

sebleon · 3 years ago
Yeah you don't really need a middle man to "take care of payroll." Most developers in Latam prefer to be contractors on paper, and have a direct relationship with the employer. Most agencies take a 30-50% cut of what employers pay, way better for developers to skip the middleman
FrankLicea · 3 years ago
Yeah, good point, of course direct freelancing is always on option. We believe that we provide enough info so that everyone can make a rational economic decision.

For example, the way customers pay is : 1) Customers pay for the developer's salary "en mano", which is specified by the developer, not us, 2) Customers pay for a standard benefits package and taxes (Health insurance, education, equipment etc.) and 3) Customers pay our 15% management fee (charged to the customer, not the developer)

That setup, of course, may not work for everyone, but we do have great companies, companies whose names we would recognize, that feel more comfortable using a US business entity that they can sign contracts with to move specialized equipment, like locked down macbooks, installing special software on work equipment, or specialized local network equipment, etc.. These companies have physical security requirements that makes it tough for them to directly hire freelancers. Thus we bring those kinds of opportunities to our teammates that would be otherwise localized only certain US cities.

lobocinza · 3 years ago
Being in a similar context I must concur. My experiences are anecdotal but let's say that is better being taken advantage of by a US or EU company than to be 'well treated' by a local company.
bberenberg · 3 years ago
Seems cool. How much coaching do you have for US companies to better understand the team's local culture issues?

For example, I worked with teams in Brazil in the past and while they were smart, kind, etc they were slow in every sense of the word. They didn't have the US culture of respond quickly, unblock people, get shit done, etc. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, in fact working slower may be a benefit, but the US company needs to understand this as they establish the relationship.

Your pricing makes sense, but I would like to understand some kind of ballpark numbers based on role title. Can you share that?

wefarrell · 3 years ago
Brazilians tend to take two hour lunches without work interruptions. Outside of that time, the ones I have worked with have been fast and responsive. Had I not known that I too probably would have thought they were slow and unresponsive. I figured that out by actually going down there and working with them for a week.

As far as the "unlbock people, get shit done, etc..." I think that's the case with a lot of outsourced work in general and I don't think it has anything to do with Brazilian culture. Outsourced labor are used to being treated like cogs in a machine so they are less likely to take the initiative or speak up when they see something that doesn't make sense.

CodeBeater · 3 years ago
I wholeheartedly second this. I have an unique lens on this issue as I'm in a unique spot. Despite being Brazilian myself, for most of my career I worked and managed US based developers, and just very very recently shifted to working directly with Brazilians. I saw no major difference in responsiveness and "get shit done" (aka initiative) between those two cohorts.

The only thing that took me by surprise is that Brazilians DO NOT take well to getting busy outside of working hours. If you text someone during their lunch break, expect to hear a complaint along with your response.

Deleted Comment

jacsamira · 3 years ago
We work very closely with our devs and US partners. We have intermediaries to help with these cultural blockers. We believe it's never a technical bar that are misses, but a cultural one. We've designed our entire support system around this to help both our US companies and our LATAM devs. And our support system aren't 20 year old CS reps with no knowledge of anything, our support system are seasoned Engineering Managers with former experience working on US teams and local to our LATAM offices.
jacsamira · 3 years ago
Pricing-wise, I'd say our all-in fees on a per dev basis are comparable to a developer's salary here in the US, but our fees are inclusive of benefits, tech, offices, etc... and the US salary is not.
scantron4 · 3 years ago
Its frustrating that over and over you say "comparable to" rather than a number.
runako · 3 years ago
Thanks for this. Could you expand on this a bit, given "developer salary" in e.g. the Bay Area/NYC means wildly different things from (say) Houston or Pittsburgh?

Were you indexing against Bay salaries or US median/average?

neolander · 3 years ago
This looks cool! I've been bullish on Latin America since remote became more popular. It's natural that people in the US would want to hire someone in more similar timezone and culture than people on the other side of the world.

There are great people everywhere, but in my view, it's been much harder to source good people from Latam than it is from Eastern Europe or South Asia.

FrankLicea · 3 years ago
Would love to hear more about your experience finding people in Latam vs Eastern Europe or South Asia.

In my experience the real risk with remote teams isn't really technical, it's possible to find great people everywhere. The real risk is human: communication, courage, culture, yes even timezones. And you mentioned that Latam overlaps more in culture!

sebleon · 3 years ago
It's a matter of time before smart folks in South Asia and Easter Europe move to Latin America to get higher salaries as they get into more US-friendly timezones.

That being said there's a lot of amazing developers in India that are open to working US-work hours for max collaboration

lloydarmbrust · 3 years ago
That's because the rails didn't really exist for hiring the kind of talent modern startups needed until recently. We've had about 10 developers in LATAM for 3-4 years and it's been a game changer for my companies.
wefarrell · 3 years ago
I am 100% your target market as I've built several teams in Latin America mostly by finding developers directly and paying them as C2C. Sometimes when I need talent immediately I'll use Toptal.

Is it possible to use your logistics without your sourcing? Frankly I think I'm better at finding the best combination of skillset and personalities for the project I want to use than you or any other staffing service. However a lot of the developers I find are hesitant to jump through the hoops to start their own company and receive international payments.

jacsamira · 3 years ago
Thanks for the note! We have one team we do this with. Email me and we can discuss offline j@austinsoftware.com
swatcoder · 3 years ago
If Astro is providing ongoing “local fulfillment” to make “teammates” feel like first class workers on an international stage, what happens to my team in XYZ when Astro makes a radical business decision (closing offices in that city, pivoting to court a next funding round, etc) as VC-funded startups often need to do?

Aren’t I making my business extraordinarily vulnerable to an unpredictable early-stage startup? How is that better than hiring/contracting through a mature overseas staffing agency in Mumbai, Kviv, or Buenos Aires? I mean, there are thousands of the latter, many with great history and references, and I don’t see what you’re adding besides risk and branding.

FrankLicea · 3 years ago
Fair question!

Regarding VC influence, we actually bootstrapped the company in 2018, and we've had to build a profitable self sustaining business from the get-go. So we don't have the "court the next VC round" problem and given that we've built a sustainable and growing business, we're don't want pivot away from that either, but I see where you are coming from.

And yes, there are plenty of international staffing agencies to choose from, but keep in mind that their reputation in the US is only part of the equation. Among international developers, these staffing agencies may have a different reputation. We believe that by using us, companies can provide their teammates with the kinds of experiences that attract a different pool of professionals otherwise unreachable through overseas staffing agencies.