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Posted by u/newsoul 3 years ago
Ask HN: Serious mathematics books that can replace a good teacher?
Mathematics is best learned under the guidance of a mentor. But not everyone has access to mentors all the time. That's where books come in. Good books. Books that can be substitute for a mentor or sometimes even better.

Which books (preferably not pop-sci) fall into this category?

motohagiography · 3 years ago
Been mulling viability of hiring professors and TAs to give 10 day intensive math and physics lecture seminars backed by tutorials in beach settings. Sort of like taking the lectures of theoreticalminimum.com but on the road, where you can join a session with a small group of ~10 students in places like Barbados, BVI, Costa Rica, mostly outdoors. If the economics can work for for yoga, we can probably make them work for an amateur/programmer interest in math. No certifications, maybe just walk through some coursera and khan material as prep.

Want to teach geeky tourists calculus? If we made math tourism a thing, teachers in host countries could skill up pretty fast as well.

dghlsakjg · 3 years ago
I would much rather do this sort of thing in a conference room in a generic hotel. No distractions.

If I’m going to travel all the way to a stunning vacation destination, I’m probably going to want to drink a beer on the beach instead of trying to focus on a class.

motohagiography · 3 years ago
Languages and yoga vacations are a huge thing and they typically do them outside conference rooms. (5-7 day probably better) I'd thought about using them, but being totally indoors is a waste of being somewhere. So long as you have shade and a blackboard, you have everything you need. There's no exam, maybe just a final problem set you get on the way in and work your way through.

Idea is ~2-3h interactive lecture session in morning by interesting prof, ideally with no electronics, an optional recommended and personalized TA tutorial in the afternoon to catch anyone up, some fun activities like watching sunset on a sailboat and then using celestial navigation to find your way back, some partnerships with locals on regular stuff like surf lessons, musical performances, etc. Priced at a small premium to whatever all inclusives are.

It's not for everyone, but the people it's for, it's really for. It's good for solo travellers, can qualify as business job training, or employee rewards/incentive/teambuilding. A way for poorly paid TAs to make some money and get a paid trip. Any product manager working in the ML space would need to do it. Developing local teaching talent could become a significant industry as well...

There goes my day, anyway.

Steuard · 3 years ago
Speaking as a physics professor, you can listen to me talk about awesome physics all you want, and maybe feel like you're getting something out of it. But if you actually want to learn math or physics at any level beyond "I've heard those words before and they sounded cool", you absolutely must be doing it: solving problems as practice, struggling with how to apply subtle concepts to new situations, and just absorbing the details for a while.

Are you genuinely envisioning this math/physics beach vacation as "mostly homework"? Because if it's not going to be a completely surface-level experience, it's going to be "mostly homework". :)

motohagiography · 3 years ago
Was thinking 15h of lectures, ~20h optional TA tutorials over 5 day period. Undergrad level stuff, as it's not for academics, but interested amateurs and we go home after a week with something to work on, maybe come back for another session once a year.

I'd ask, would you pay $5k to hang out in a yurt on Anegada for a week and learn an undergrad intro to category theory?

This: https://anegadabeachclub.com/

Plus this:

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-s097-applied-category-theory-...

Equals...awesome?

Other appealing ones to me would be from a selection of:

https://ocw.mit.edu/search/?l=Undergraduate&q=geometry

https://ocw.mit.edu/search/?l=Undergraduate&q=proofs

https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-781-theory-of-numbers-spring-...

Enginerrrd · 3 years ago
>Are you genuinely envisioning this math/physics beach vacation as "mostly homework"?

That's what I was envisioning. Homework with an onsite PhD for when I get stuck or find an interesting tangent to go on.

At 32, this is literally how I prefer to spend my vacations now anyway. It's just hard to find time when I can focus and don't have to watch the kids.

t4_ · 3 years ago
There's definitely precedent - small math conferences are often held in interesting locations, and everyone gets a travel grant to attend. Just need a couple meeting rooms for the sessions during the day. The more niche the field the smaller the conference - not talking about big resorts here.

Machine Learning Summer School (MLSS) used to have some nice locations, don't know what it's like these days.

You could go with a name brand, Brian Greene type. Like a "MasterClass Live" type thing.

jamal-kumar · 3 years ago
Yeah this idea is pretty killer and I'd love to work on something like that. I have the past decade of experience mostly being in such zones of my own volition and it's just been such an amazing time.

I could completely picture even hiring locals who speak good English in these places to do the job being a thing to get around having to wrestle with stuff like visa requirements. Costa Rica for example has a law where if the job can be done by someone in Costa Rica, you need to hire them - But the country also has an enormously well educated talent pool (They abolished their military in the 40's to put it in on education), so there's no shortage of that at all.

El_Alcalde · 3 years ago
I’m a programmer, almost 10 years out of college now. I’ve been thinking I should re familiarize myself with stats, discrete math, that kind of thing. So I love your idea.
f0e4c2f7 · 3 years ago
I've never heard of teaching other things with yoga. I really love your idea. I could see it extending to teaching things like programming.

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sva_ · 3 years ago
You might work yourself through the exercises in "baby Rudin" to learn analysis, and ask questions on Stackexchange, but it'll probably often be very frustrating.

I think there are so many great books on linear algebra, that it is difficult to single one out. I think LA is also picked up much easier by most people, especially with a programming background.

It isn't really about the book imho, it's about being disciplined and do some practice exercises every day, like you're training a muscle.

Edit: and I recommend you never consult solutions, except to verify yours. "Illusion of competence" is a big thing you might accidentally step into in mathematics. My experience is that looking up solutions gives you a short strong eureka feeling, but you learn almost nothing from it. You have to go and arrive there yourself.

moomin · 3 years ago
Came here to say Rudin. His presentation is “odd” in that he introduces powerful concepts and whacks large numbers of problems on the head with them, whereas the usual pedagogical approach is to teach techniques that correspond to these concepts but never explain the concept.

I also really liked Herstein on algebra but I believe it’s out of print now.

MikeBVaughn · 3 years ago
"Topics in Algebra" is fantastic! It also is in print, if you don't mind paying roughly $240 for a print-on-demand paperback. It's an obscene price, but it is available!
tzs · 3 years ago
His "Topics in Algebra", "Abstract Algebra", or both?
mikevm · 3 years ago
I couldn't disagree more. I studied Analysis in the Uni, and even in that environment Rudin is pretty bad. For a total newcomer that book will leave you completely helpless. Also, solutions are a must have, without them you are almsot totally lost. In their absence, it is OK to ask on StackExchange or #math on EFnet.

First let's start with a few books to prep you for college-level maths:

* https://www.amazon.com/How-Study-as-Mathematics-Major-ebook/...

* https://www.amazon.com/How-Read-Proofs-Introduction-Mathemat... ; or

* https://www.amazon.com/Numbers-Proofs-Modular-Mathematics-Al... ; or

* https://www.amazon.com/How-Prove-Structured-Daniel-Velleman-... (I believe you can find solutions to the 2nd edition online)

For Single-Variable Analysis

* https://www.amazon.com/Think-About-Analysis-Lara-Alcock/dp/0...

* https://www.amazon.com/How-Why-One-Variable-Calculus/dp/1119...

* https://www.amazon.com/Mathematical-Analysis-Straightforward... (contains solutions to exercises)

* https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Analysis-Undergraduate-... (there are solutions online for the 2nd edition)

* https://www.amazon.com/Numbers-Functions-Steps-into-Analysis... (this book is a brilliant exercise-guided approach that helps you build up your knowledge step by step + solutions are provided).

Koshkin · 3 years ago
Agree, Rudin is excellent as a second course on real analysis, but as a first one it is absolutely terrible.
gituliar · 3 years ago
Absolutely agree.

Exercises are the key for learning. Like with riding a bicycle -- you learn by trying not reading or watching. Composing an exercise section is hard, so thoughtful books usually have one.

Also, I'd pick just one book for a subject and stick to it, pick it carefully to fit your style and language.

d4rkp4ttern · 3 years ago
Besides practicing the given exercises (which is a must of course) I find it helpful to try to prove the Lemmas and theorems myself, or at least struggle with them for a while, so that (a) you understand the proof better and (b) the struggle plus reading helps concepts stick far better. In other words try to “own” the concepts as if you had developed them.
fn-mote · 3 years ago
I disagree with all of these recommendations about studying analysis.

tl;dr: Study a less careful subject where you can more easily develop a useful intuition. Abstract algebra and linear algebra both fit in that category.

(What follows is a caricature.) I tell people that analysis was born in the 19th century when Weierstrauss killed intutition as a tool for understanding calculus. Analysis might teach you what is "really true" but unless you are going to be some kind of professional I would HIGHLY recommend developing an intuition and understanding of things based on what should be true. It's a terrible thing to learn that what "should be" true is not, and for a long time that doesn't help you make progress.

lupire · 3 years ago
This is because analysis is built upon the fantasy axiom of "real" numbers (of which, according to the measure theory of real analysis, 100% are impossible to even have names, even in principle, let alone compute with), instead of the solid foundations of algebra.
newsoul · 3 years ago
Can you recommend some books?
macintux · 3 years ago
Related discussions:

* Susan Rigetti’s “So You Want to Study Mathematics…”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30591177

* Terry Tao’s “Masterclass on mathematical thinking”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30107687

* Alan U. Kennington’s “How to learn mathematics: The asterisk method”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28953781

digianarchist · 3 years ago
Terry Tao's course isn't very good. It's a 10,000 foot view of mathematical problem solving presented as entertainment.
jpfr · 3 years ago
The best book for me was "Vector Calculus, Linear Algebra, and Differential Forms" by Hubbard and Hubbard.

It is the only book (I know of) that brings you from absolute basics to an integrated development of the subjects from its title. And that integrated developments actually leads to a good didactic method.

The search function will show you many comments on HN recommending it.

selimthegrim · 3 years ago
I hear they have an interesting take on the implicit function theorem.
wrycoder · 3 years ago
Buy from matrixeditions.com for $98.
laichzeit0 · 3 years ago
Supposing you have at least high school mathematics under the belt:

1. Book of Proof by Hammack [1]

2. Tom Apostol Calculus Vol 1 (stop at Linear Algebra)

3. Linear Algebra by Insel, Spence & Friedberg

4. Understanding Analysis by Stephen Abbott

5. Tom Apostol Calculus Vol 2

These are books with excellent exposition, and solution manuals are available when needed. You are absolutely required to do all the exercises. To learn mathematics is to do mathematics.

Two other excellent books are Spivak - Calculus, the problems in this book are very good, but much more difficult than Apostol. For more advanced analysis there's Walter Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis (baby Rudin), which on its own is too difficult as a first exposure to analysis, but there's a cool professor that recorded an entire semester of baby Rudin lecture videos [2]. This is as close as it gets without being enrolled in a university.

[1] https://www.people.vcu.edu/~rhammack/BookOfProof/

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab41LEw9oiI&list=PLun8-Z_lTk... (the first video is a bit blurry, it gets better)

hatmatrix · 3 years ago
Let me ask and answer some questions here that doesn't answer your question directly.

What makes a good book and why there are tons of them on the same subjects?

The best book for you is the one that speaks to your technical preparation and perspective. A few hits the sweet spot for a broad audience - perhaps because they are good at drawing analogies with common experiences - but even some obscure books can be good if it aligns with what your background.

How can a mentor help and can you do without one?

A mentor can help lay out the roadmap to build from simple topics to more difficult ones. Maybe more critically, provide rapid feedback on your understanding. They can also explain things in more than one way. Some textbooks do lay out the roadmap reasonably well, provided that it starts from concepts that you are already familiar with (again, you need to find the right book for you). Problem sets in textbooks are meant to provide feedback on your understanding, but it often fails to provide smaller hints if you can't solve the problem outright. You could get a set of solutions for the problems and that could partially help. Grabbing multiple textbook on the same subject can also help understand the most commonly covered (and by implication most essential) elements on the subject, and also give you multiple explanations of the same concept (though not always).

Takeaway message?

You could potentially try to pick up multiple books on the same subject and try to learn this way. Follow the one that speaks to your background most closely, but the others are also likely to help.

mindcrime · 3 years ago
You could potentially try to pick up multiple books on the same subject and try to learn this way. Follow the one that speaks to your background most closely, but the others are also likely to help.

FWIW, one of my favorite maths Youtubers, the "Math Sorcerer"[1], highly encourages this approach. Don't fixate on one particular book, but buy many books on a given topic, and allow yourself to experience different presentations of the material. And as he often points out, if you're willing to accept used books, and older editions (which is often OK if you're not buying a book for a specific class), then you can quite often get copies really cheap from Alibris, bookfinder, etc.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheMathSorcerer

fluctor · 3 years ago
I have a stack of statistics books that I will flip through if I need explanation or illustration of a new concept. Usually one will help me out better than the others, but the combination of the different explanations usually improves my understanding.

I suppose this is really a parallelization of the "third textbook" model (i.e., if the third textbook you try when learning something new seems "much better" than the first two, it might because you actually did learn some things from the first two).

dontbenebby · 3 years ago
I haven't had many good math teachers, the one that I did was some poor frazzled adjunct who had to run over to CMU after he was done teaching my class at Pitt. (I'm an alumni.)

The textbook isn't the barrier, it's the end of chapter activities.

If I decided to learn, say, geometry, something that wasn't really taught much in my middle school, I'd probably do Khan academy or try to find a set of finished problem sets.

(When you remove the academic dishonesty angle, the real issue with math courses is it's difficult to craft a math question, so then you need to keep the answer and steps leading to it secret lest folks memorize them for an A.

That issue disappears completely if you adopt a more realistic model like "can you figure out which algorithm to use on Wikipedia, search out if it's already used in a common language like Python, then import your data in a simple format like a .csv and use the trustworthy code you found.

- Greg.

shanusmagnus · 3 years ago
I think this is a huge part of it. Realistic hacky workaround is to get one of those "1000 calculus problems solved" books, and work through the examples -- there's a zillion books for math topic X online, you can read through the relevant parts of a few. But your progress / insight will be in proportion to the problems you actively engage with.

I've often thought that a really pedestrian, but possibly world-shaking, application of AI would be generating math problems (and solutions) appropriate to someone's state of knowledge. Such a thing would make problem-solving practically as fun as a game, at least for many people. Imagine the consequences of a generation of kids obsessive solving of interesting multi-area math / engineering problems the way recent kids played Minecraft or whatever.

(Q: Is there anything vaguely like this in the world now?)

dontbenebby · 3 years ago
If you know a good resource on learning calculus on your own, I'd add it to my todo list. Every algorithm I reverse engineer or develop has been very... I think linear is the phrasing? No curves?

>I've often thought that a really pedestrian, but possibly world-shaking, application of AI would be generating math problems (and solutions)

Maybe read up on plagarism detectors? I can't recall the title but there was one some people used in grad school to spot code re-use that was engineered much differently from Turnitin.

(Play around with the latter, and notice how the "plagarism" score jumps when you tell it to ignore what you cited. I had way too many stories told to me of professors who'd start the academic misconduct proces because they forgot to do that, paired with witnessing some egregious academic misconduct that I'll simply never be able to get away with.)

- Greg.

jamal-kumar · 3 years ago
I really like Arthur Benjamin's work on mental mathematics. I'm not savant-level, doing division in the thousands or huge floating points in my head yet but I sure am a lot sharper than I was coming out of high school from studying his work, and I guarantee you will just have fun with expanding your capability to think about numbers. [1]

I got a copy of this book from the 1920s which is really cool because it teaches you math lessons you have to actually go out and physically do stuff with like pegs and strings in a field, from the perspective of the history of mathematics where people were limited to such devices in order to do stuff like trigonometry. Very very different approach, probably not for everyone, but for me I just think it's pretty cool. It definitely was written in the 1920s though so you better get used to that particular writing style if you plan on digesting it like a course. It's designed that way, though, and it's got great reviews. Just keep in mind maybe some of the history is subject to have changed over the years. [2]

Ultimately I've self-taught myself a lot more than I ever learned in school for sure but a wide variety of sources is probably more what you're after in terms of getting a grip on what's interesting enough to pursue further for your own means and ends. I think exploring what fascinates you the most and then just going and finding things from that point is a pretty good start as long as you've got elementary understandings up to a point where the fascination actually happens.

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/83585.Secrets_of_Mental_...

[2] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/66355.Mathematics_for_th...