But I've never been more unhappy and lost.
I used to joke that I would be dead by the time I was 40 though stopped because The Wife hated hearing it but I do feel like I have no plan past this point. Being in pandemic lock down during this time hasn't helped. I told my therapist that I feel like I've hit my mid-life crisis, though not your typical one as I'm not going out and buying a muscle car to cruise high schools. I know I'm depressed and have been for the majority of my life. Been in therapy for a while and tried various pills (didn't help), TMS (somewhat helped), and thinking about trying Ketamine.
I feel like I've hit my zenith already and it's just a slow decline from here on out. I’ve been dreading this day because it’s a sad reminder of that.
My spidey sense went up when you mentioned what "you told your therapist", full stop. I was at least expecting "what my therapist responded" or "what my therapist told me that didn't work". That really (spidey sense, no evidence really) implies that your therapist is having low impact.
I've had half a dozen therapists in my life. What I realized is there's a huge difference between most therapists and good ones. With a typical therapist, not much happens, you phone it in and they don't notice or call you on it. A good therapist somehow has a way of listening and then catching you properly off guard at least once or twice a session. They can stare into your soul and see through your bullshit, even when you don't notice the bullshit you're saying. If you don't feel that incisiveness, perhaps it's time to start shopping for a new therapist.
Therapy really is a 100x profession.
We need meaning in live. And for a long time religion gave that. But we threw that out. We now try to get "profesional therapy help". But it hardly has any scientific backing, and no one but religion has been able (even though it fails often) been offer te give any deeper answer to the question to "whats the meaning of it all".
The best solutions people like Robbins or J. Peterson offer are: just keep running so you don't think about it.
While I'm surely projecting on to OP, I think it is very common for very career or goal-focused folks to have good but perhaps not overwhelming success, then hit their mid-40s and think "Umm, what do I do now?" This can be especially common for folks that perhaps sacrificed some of their personal relationships in pursuit of their goals.
I was very lucky in that I had a fantastic therapist who really helped me understand the roots of my depression. Even then, though, after a while insight can only go so far. It's very clear to me that I've neglected nurturing my friendships and relationships, and I think there are likely others out there in a similar predicament, especially on a place like HN. I've actually started to search for a life coach that can really assist with the tactical side of nurturing friendships. That was a big missing piece from my therapy, which was otherwise great.
On one hand it's kind of embarrassing to feel like I need to pay someone to say "Yes, it's been a while, you should call Jane", and "Did you mail your Christmas cards?", and "Did you send a thank you note to Bob?", and "Why don't you invite the Jones over for dinner?", but I've come to see it like a personal trainer. Most people know the basics of working out, but they need to pay someone to actually get them to exercise. On the friendship topic, for some folks this sort of "social knowledge" comes naturally - I've come to easily accept it's not natural for me and I need some assistance.
As far as I've seen from studies of happiness, basically it all comes down to "love", it all its different forms. Modern society makes it much more difficult to build a true sense of community and friendships. I think we all just need to spend the effort to find it without some of the "default" structures that used to exist in the past.
This is pretty much what Nietzsche was getting at in his often misunderstood quote about 'God is dead', which is actually part of a larger 'Parable of the Madman' - see here if you've never read it, it's pretty insightful IMO: http://www.historyguide.org/europe/madman.html
Do you have any religious affinity, @0414throwaway? What's your story there?
The meaning of life is to simply be happy, but we cannot be happy when others are so unhappy, therefore we must live our lives for others' happiness. Every act of compassionate service to those around us causes an upwelling of happiness within our hearts. Only by living in a service-oriented society where we look after each other compassionately can we hope to find peace and happiness.
This world teaches us that selfish greed with a callous, willful ignorance of the suffering of others, is the goal of life, but that will always -- I mean always -- lead to a miserable, empty life, especially in this world full of woe.
The journey of religion is to go within one's self and seek God's Will for our lives, to ask in humility to become an agent of others' happiness. Then you will be guided to the path that will take you there. Ask every day and every night and be thankful for what you have such that you become a kind, generous person.
And remember that that selfish, ignorant Peterson guy perverted the teachings of religion for his own selfish enrichment and power, and that he has no peace (not without benzos that is). You don't want that fate. We must cultivate our compassion and sense of worldwide community. It is not only essential for our species' survival (via global warming and the brutal fascists all over the Earth), but for our own personal happiness and peace.
"The Way goes in." --Rumi
In fact, I feel like I'm having the opposite of the "HN is turning into Reddit" illusion, where I feel that over the last year or two the quality of discourse on HN has improved (!): more and more, well-reasoned life advice floats to the top of comment threads. The thread about marriage and divorce had similarly good insights yesterday.
Either that, or I've just matured and I can appreciate it all more :)
All the therapists I've come across have been excellent at what they do. Yet, therapy is a 2 way process, and if anything, demands more of the patient than it does of the therapist. So if things are not working out definitely try someone else.
I feel like my IFS trained therapist is actually a professional doing skilled work helping me explore and understand my personality instead of just being a rent-a-friend like my previous therapists.
[0]: https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/04/05/yanss-229-britt-fran...
With that said, I think it also helps to diversify your portfolio of meaning. Sounds like you identify "summit" and "zenith" as the latest happenings in your career, but depending on the season of your life, there will always be different ups and downs.
Found this article useful: https://every.to/superorganizers/against-ikigai
edit - I missed it in OP - but perhaps the same feedback, try something else? good luck OP.
I recommend you start with a professional that works with `Cognitive Therapy` (from what I've heard it's one of the more recent therapies and its practices are based on evidences -- that's not the case for all therapies out there).
I really think it’s simpler than that: find the closest therapist, do an eval session, and see if it fits. If not, try again with next closest. Personal referrals are good too.
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They spend half of their life working for survival, preparing and planning for their (!) future.
Some people die in the process and never live to see that future, but some people reach that point and become aware of the finite time that just elapsed.
Having physical needs met is trivial in our society. Everything beyond is self imposed suffering by comparing oneself to others.
But for what purpose? Just to have more than someone else? Just to be better than someone else?
Nobody truly cares. Nobody cares about how fancy the technology is that someone built to make people click more ads online - even if that someone thinks he is doing god's work.
We came to this earth naked and we will leave naked. Just like my parents did. Any material possessions and people will be left behind. Most of us will be forgotten 2 generations ahead or end up as UTF-8 characters on wikipedia.
I can at least walk joyfully in the present and not suffer my imagination about the future. I can also make a conscious choice to not indulge in activities that destroy the planet for others. I don't think the older generations see it the way I do.
-Anonymous; Datalinks, SMAC
OP's piece and the SMAC quote really remind me of this art at the Met:
The Angel of Death and the Sculptor from the Milmore Memorial
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/10909
If you get a chance to see it in person, the faces, man, the faces. They are perfect for that piece.
Sometimes we have dependants that cannot ensure their own wellbeing (e.g. children). Sometimes we have good reasons to believe that we will not be able to work in the future (e.g. health issues).
Ensuring that you and your loved ones will have a decent quality of life regardless of your ability to work in the future can be a strong motivator to push your own boundaries today.
Your friend wished he had focused on his career while the people who focused on their careers wished to have lived more experiences.
Married people wished they were single to enjoy the freedom and live a simpler life. While single people wished they met a SO to be less lonely.
People with stable high paying jobs like many developers, daydream about financial independence and quitting their jobs. While most other people dream of just finding a stable high paying job.
People from 1st world countries complain a lot about their own countries while most people in the rest of the world would literally die crossing the border to get there.
Young people wish they were rich. Rich people wish they were young.
And the list goes on and on. This seems to be something very human... Why do we think so much of the things we lack/didn't do but seem to forget what we have/have done?
Now, it is time to focus on people other than yourself. Most other advice on here is awful; it amounts to different directions to run on the hedonic treadmill.
Instead, you have to give back now. What good is there to be done, that only you could do? What will be worse off if you don't lend a hand? This can range from finding better ways to support and mentor your children, to donating time to tutor students in programming, to building a well in Africa. Think hard about what you really care about, and then work hard to bring that into being.
You start looking for ways to improve life for everyone else, and focusing on what kind of impact you want to have on the world. What’s something that has caused you or someone you care about a lot of pain? Could you help prevent someone else from going through that, or make it easier somehow? Maybe you can’t achieve something grand like world peace, but you can use your skills to improve education in war torn areas to provide new options, etc.
Start to think of the world as an extension of yourself. After you’ve honed yourself, hone the world.
Everything you've done up to this point has only been a prelude to whatever you choose to do next. If you choose to see those years as your zenith and stop doing anything, that's on you, it's not because you've supposedly reached some mythical temporal horizon. You've accrued experiences, skills, wisdom, perspective, understanding, relationships, and resources. If you can't see a way to turn those into meaningful next pursuits, then (again) that's on you. Don't make excuses for yourself.
Our culture unfortunately worships youth. We seem to think that life after 40 is downhill, but this just isn't true. From 40 to 70 or even 80 is a PRIME period of life. You have the things you need to do world-changing work, the confidence that comes from hard-won experience, and the tangible life experience to appreciate the meaningfulness and beauty of every single moment.
So-called "zeniths" are whatever you decide they are. If you reached your absolute best in one skillset, pick up a new one. Reinvent yourself and kick off a whole new career. Serve the people around you. Try to make the world better somehow for your having been here. There's no end of things you could do. Don't waste any more time with this angsty self-pity. Life is too fleeting and too wonderful to be so self-absorbed.
There's just no question to me—life really doesn't even begin to be amazing until all the noise quiets down sometime in the 30s–40s. That stage is important, we NEED to burn hot through that period and it's important, but it's by absolutely no means whatsoever some kind of "peak"—that idea is so much bullshit.
If there is such a thing as a "peak", I feel like it's probably more accurately something like the 50s, with a long tail through the 60s and beyond. Those decades make up (imo) the window where you can bring all the things you've lived to bear and live the culmination of all your insights—powerful stuff.
And why do you think you have hit your zenith? Because you will not be able to redo the success that you have had and climb another ladder? But who have said that you should?
Beware, NO wonder pill or wonder drug will suddenly make your life easier, because (I suppose!) the issue lies with the purpose of life, not with some other biological reason. What is the purpose then? Well, there were a lot of smart people trying to think about this topic, you can start by studying them.
What the meds do is make it easier to employ those techniques.
So while there is no wonder pill that will solve your issues, in certain cases if used properly they will definitely help.
I say this so that OP isn't discouraged from taking drugs because of comments of this variety that say true happiness comes from within - while it does, there are certainly things (like therapy and medication) that can at least put you on the right path. Like everything else, there can be a lot of trial and error to find the right ones.
The OP's entire self identity is wrapped up in their career - which explains, also, their great success. It's a common ailment in high pressure, high money industries, and especially common in tech. And now, the inevitable existential crisis when that is over - what now? They spent 20-30 years doing nothing but focusing on their job, and tying their self-worth to external validation.
I think what a therapist would say is to focus on yourself rather than extrinsic rewards. You need to learn to be happy with yourself and not rely on validation of others or society to do that for you. Finding a hobby that gives you a lot of personal satisfaction is one approach.
FWIW I've long believed that many people should progress into a mentoring role at some point in their life. I've had that role several times in several different niches, and I love it, and it's extremely fulfilling. You could easily spend 20 years helping to raise and influence future generations.
If you aren't finding a suitable mentoring opportunity at your current role, I'd recommend looking at volunteer organizations. It can take a while to find a good fit, so don't give up if the first one doesn't work out for whatever reason. But, in general, I've found volunteer organizations to be full of passionate, youthful (if not young) people who are really energizing to be around. I ended up volunteering a lot with search and rescue because it fit well with my other interests, but there are myriad volunteer organizations looking for good people from all kinds of backgrounds.
The alternative is having lots of problems and being in an objectively bad situation. If you're just feeling lost, it means you have solved most of your problems - congrats! I find it never really gets much easier, or much harder.
EDIT: Ketamine might be totally fine... I just have negative feelings about it.
Uhh, I wouldn't recommend any of those substances that casually, especially if someone's not mentally at a good state. ESPECIALLY ecstasy - it can easily be neurotoxic if you don't know what you're doing, and leave you with permanent brain damage or death.
Also quick addendum - I'm not at all saying that these substances can't be amazing and helpful in the right situation... That last part is key. If you are well aware of the various risks (hyperthermia leading to death, serotonin syndrome due to interactions with SSRIs/MAOIs, "Suicide Tuesdays") etc then you may be better read and aware, but if these terms are foreign then please don't try such "hard" substances (MDMA is a stimulant after all).
Oh, and all this is not accounting for the risk of getting car/fentanyl cut in your tablet.
It sounds like you're on a good path though, Stay strong bro.
I'm curious: why not?
Nice to hear you were able to get over it -or at least take the steps to eventually do. Inspiring honestly, keep at it.
I think therapeutic ketamine is a different beast.
This is all speculation.
Try going to social settings like downtown and not think too much about how "These are not my type of people" or "I don't want to be out partying all the time". You have to go out and approach people to meet new friends. It's uncomfortable and awkward. You'll get rejected and need to brush it off. I've even considered going out solo and just walking around and enjoying myself.