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dundarious · 4 years ago
A notable excerpt that I often see in quotation:

(11) General Interference with Organizations and Production

(a) Organizations and Conferences

(1) Insist on doing everything through "channels." Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.

(2) Make "speeches." Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your "points" by long anecdotes and accounts of personal experiences. Never hesitate to make a few appropriate "patriotic" comments.

(3) When possible, refer all matters to committees, for "further study and consideration." Attempt to make the committees as large as possible — never less than five.

(4) Bring up irrelevant issues as frequently as possible.

(5) Haggle over precise wordings of communications, minutes, resolutions.

(6) Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision.

(7) Advocate "caution." Be "reasonable" and urge your fellow-conferees to be "reasonable" and avoid haste which might result in embarrassments or difficulties later on.

(8) Be worried about the propriety of any decision — raise the question of whether such action as is contemplated lies within the jurisdiction of the group or whether it might conflict with the policy of some higher echelon.

AnthonyMouse · 4 years ago
This document makes plain that America's largest corporations and government have been thoroughly infiltrated by enemy saboteurs.

What are we going to do about it?

dundarious · 4 years ago
If you're referring to corporations like Google, where employees (until recently at least) were able to form groups and informal committees and have (sometimes) interminable debates, I think you're missing the important point that Google is not a democratic institution -- it has a strict hierarchy decided from the top, so it's pretty resistant to these tactics. It's the powerless, free-association, relatively democratic groups that are antagonistic to the hierarchy that are vulnerable to these tactics, and that are neutralized by them. I agree that representative democracies are definitely easy prey to these tactics though.

I think this manual is most appropriately understood as an early reference for the operations of the FBI in COINTELPRO, etc. State employed agents-provocateur and saboteurs were some of the first to literally use these exact reference manuals domestically, and their targets were the various social and labor movements of the day.

jazzyjackson · 4 years ago
nah, CIA’s greatest trick is making people look over their shoulders, sabotage themselves through paranoia.

All the things in the quote happen naturally, through people’s general incompetence. To put it in a field manual is very tongue in cheek, reads to me as irony. Corporations and political parties run themselves as poorly as if they were infiltrated by sabotagers, but they do it to themselves.

specialist · 4 years ago
You joke.

But I've been ruminating on how to start a political and economic movement committed to dismantling the bureaucratic state by empowering individuals to be ever more autonomous.

Adjacent notions are participatory democracy (a la the Iroquois), banning usury, UBI, worker directed social enterprises, left-libertarian, and healing the world. More to be added as my whimsy and imagination permit.

anamexis · 4 years ago
Let's form a committee to decide on a plan.

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mro_name · 4 years ago
> infiltrated by enemy saboteurs.

alas, many saboteurs may consider themselves friends.

dmix · 4 years ago
It'd be too easy to blame enemy saboteurs boogie-men it was because originally written by the CIA.

99% of this is home gown. And infiltrating agent's job would, be to accelerate these natters. Assuming your group matters enough which allike.

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afarrell · 4 years ago
Drop the illusion that you are living in a spy novel. Realize the far more boring yet terrifying truth that people are doing their best and muddling through. Learn examples of clear communication and practice them to help clarify reality.
justinc8687 · 4 years ago
Am I the only one who thought this sounded exactly like local government?
mpyne · 4 years ago
Nope. I've had this exact page printed out an posted on my office cube at Navy military HR headquarters by 2018, and independently a separate Navy office had also been introducing this into innovation briefs they give.

But complaining about this has not helped us fix things quite yet either :-/

Natsu · 4 years ago
That's probably where they got these ideas from...
peteradio · 4 years ago
Well what if all that we can do is run interference on entropy. By executing perfect uselessness at a higher order the local councilman fights against the gnawing maw of the HOA.
34679 · 4 years ago
Others are pointing out the similarities with corporate America, but I felt like I was reading the congressional playbook.
notreallyserio · 4 years ago
> (5) Haggle over precise wordings of communications, minutes, resolutions.

> (6) Refer back to matters decided upon at the last meeting and attempt to re-open the question of the advisability of that decision.

Hey, this sounds like the sort of thing that goes on in everyday discussions on the Internet. And likely for the same ultimate purpose.

mananaysiempre · 4 years ago
This resonates surprisingly well with the “Fuck nuance” paper in sociology[1], even if I can’t exactly pin down why.

[1]: https://kieranhealy.org/files/papers/fuck-nuance.pdf

tonypace · 4 years ago
You could readily add, "We need a more nuanced discussion of the situation," as another sabotage tactic.
xwolfi · 4 years ago
My God, it feels like work
BeFlatXIII · 4 years ago
Whoever wrote this travelled in time to observe one of my fraternity's meetings before writing the manual. Points 2, 4, are 5 particularly poignant.
dmix · 4 years ago
> (1) Insist on doing everything through "channels." Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions.

Channels, aka processes in the corporate world.

unbanned · 4 years ago
This just seems like normal human behaviour...

Dead Comment

egberts1 · 4 years ago
It is what the US corporations should be looking out for when dealing with foreign nationals.
dang · 4 years ago
Past threads:

Simple Sabotage Field Manual - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26293804 - Feb 2021 (1 comment)

CIA's Declassified 1941 Simple Sabotage Field Manual - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23316292 - May 2020 (1 comment)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22322041 - Feb 2020 (89 comments)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15109771 - Aug 2017 (32 comments)

The CIA’s 1944 Simple Sabotage Field Manual (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12253276 - Aug 2016 (64 comments)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10493881 - Nov 2015 (68 comments)

How to make sure nothing gets done at work - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10393485 - Oct 2015 (3 comments)

Simple Sabotage Field Manual (1944) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4831363 - Nov 2012 (67 comments)

From CIA: Timeless Tips for 'Simple Sabotage' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4243649 - July 2012 (3 comments)

WW2 "Simple Sabotage Field Manual" declassified [pdf] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=905750 - Oct 2009 (6 comments)

OSS (pre-CIA) Simple Sabotage Field Manual - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=833443 - Sept 2009 (29 comments)

epr · 4 years ago
Chatting with my gf, we came up with a new section (mostly her):

=== General Inquiries ===

- Answer a question other than the one being asked. Feign misunderstanding.

- Give incomplete answers. Do anything you can to almost but not completely answer the inquiry .

- Delay answering as long as possible.

- Answer with a question.

- Request more information than required to answer an inquiry.

- Attempt redirection to other people or resources.

- Involve as many people as possible

- Rebuke the inquirer when they follow up on a previous unanswered inquiry within an arbitrary time window (days, not hours).

- When asked multiple questions, answer only only of them, ignoring all others. Wait to be prompted to answer each question individually.

- When asked multiple questions, answer the least important or time sensitive question first.

- Ignore all information provided besides the single question being answered.

- Prefer slower or more onerous communication methods 1. snail mail 2. email 3. text messaging 4. audio call 5. video call 6. in-person meeting

- Mix multiple communication methods

- If contacted using a lower ranking method, upgrade.

saltyfamiliar · 4 years ago
Yikes. I know people that behave very much like this naturally.
vidarh · 4 years ago
In particular, it took me a long time to a realise that for a lot of people communications is parsed by treating a series of requests or pieces of information as a FIFO. If you're lucky, it's fairly deep, but for some people it can only hold 1 or 2 entries at the time.

But when it's an e-mail or other interaction that they understand as "conversational", these people tend to not start acting on the output until the end.

So ask for 3 things, and chances are only the last one will still be in the queue by the time they've read your whole message. The rest will have just popped out of their mind and no longer exist in their world until they're prompted to re-read your message.

For people who act like that, seemingly the only way around it short of drip-feeding them questions one at a time that I've found is to present them with a document attachment and only one request: "Please follow the procedure in the attached document." And make them sign off. And provide a checklist if they're particularly difficult.

You basically need to make it clear that the list is not conversation. You can find people who are pathologically unable to process a list of instructions in an e-mail who are at the same time completely OCD about processing lists of instructions in a document, because they context-switch completely.

Of course in this context of "sabotage" this can be exploited to: Mercilessly attach all information in a bunch of separate documents, and add checklists and signoffs to everything. Especially to unimportant stuff.

midasuni · 4 years ago
That’s the point
ripvanwinkle · 4 years ago
That honestly reads like the playbook that many mid level managers at some of the largest companies operate out of
it_does_follow · 4 years ago
So much so that I can't help but wonder if this is a bit of an inside joke.

Having at one time worked for the Federal Government I know me and my fellow employees created surprisingly similar documents (though nothing as formal) chronically the absurdity of our daily life.

This type of "sabotage" reminds of the Onion's FBI Uncovers Al-Qaeda Plot To Just Sit Back And Enjoy Collapse Of United States[0]. For most large organizations these techniques are already widely practiced.

0. https://www.theonion.com/fbi-uncovers-al-qaeda-plot-to-just-...

jazzyjackson · 4 years ago
I’m of the same mind, it reads as hilarious straight faced irony, of the ways beuacracies sabotage themselves
csydas · 4 years ago
While I think the article is submitted with that kind of irony, in fact that the CIA* just studied what stymied or frustrated any common hierarchy/organization and formalized it into a process.

I resonate with it because I can name persons who, intentionally or not, do these exact actions within our org; I can even name a few I know do it intentionally as they said as such. Their goal isn't to get fired or to cause "real" trouble, but instead to cause frustration without getting in trouble.

There are similar guides, or were anyways, on how to effectively troll/create chaos online; it's not that the authors of the articles are geniuses that created this stuff in a vacuum, they just had a need for such a specific outcome and turns out humans have been doing this ever since we started making hierarchies.

* (or any other intelligence organization across the globe really)

FWIW, the counter to this though is to just ignore such "saboteurs" as much as you can. Most of the time their ability to frustrate relies on consistently being in places where they can frustrate or by participating with persons who are drawn into such distractions.

If you cannot avoid working with them, the same tactics that are disruptive in this manual (documentation, etc), can be used against the saboteur also. Establish documentation procedures that even if only you are using it, you can define time sinks and inefficiencies.

Bend the rules a little and continue projects without the problematic person, finding a replacement that does help, and when you report on the project, document the saboteur not as a problem, but instead that your chosen replacement was an improvement on them.

These workplace saboteurs thrive on creating confusion, chaos, and disruption, and working in channels that aren't easily observable, and most importantly, by exploiting our tendencies towards good faith interpretations in all things (which is what we're taught is correct and polite).

Businesses live by hard numbers and profit.

It's a sometimes tense experience, but discipline and resistance to getting drawn into the saboteurs chaos can and eventually will get the desired results. If the business truly doesn't respond or the saboteur has such sway/pull that their lack of output/efficiency doesn't prompt some action from the business, then truly the business is not one you want to be in.

Quite a few workplace saboteurs have been removed from my workplace doing this (either by threat of firing that resulted in resignation or outright firing). The end result of a few weeks of just practicing brevity in meetings, taking the time to make a chain of documentation for interactions with such persons, and avoiding getting wrapped up into "games" helped a ton. Follow-up emails from conversations the saboteur wants to keep "just in chat" or "just on a quick call" are extremely useful, just a quick high-level summary and suggestion for next steps and a request to update the thread showed a reluctance of these persons to participate (add in little messages like "hey I pinged you in our chat also and didn't get the response either" to just cover your tracks)

yodelshady · 4 years ago
In fairness, that's a part of the point - it's a sustainable sabotage manual, for people who want to see retirement, which necessitates things that are hard to identify as malintent. Yeah, you could blow up the plant once, but your next action should probably be a plane out the country, and even with a ready supply of saboteurs, the vulnerability may well be patched.

Kind of like the Coventry problem (actually, identical to the Coventry problem).

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qaq · 4 years ago
100%

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SquibblesRedux · 4 years ago
This one appears more complete: http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/library/SimpleSabotageFiel...

This reads like "The Anarchist's Guide to Bringing Down FAANG." (MAANG?)

jareklupinski · 4 years ago
> (3) Using a very rapid stroke will wear out a file before its time. So will dragging a file in slow strokes under heavy pressure. Exert pressure on the backward stroke as well as the forward stroke.

i'm learning more about proper technique than sabotage from this

rgblambda · 4 years ago
Being shown what NOT to do is often as or even more useful than being shown the correct usage.
JKCalhoun · 4 years ago
It is both hilarious and sad: like something from the film Brazil but also like normal bureaucracy in Corporate America of today.
debbiedowner · 4 years ago
It's MAMAA now. G->A a while ago and Netflix was superceded by Microsoft.
black_puppydog · 4 years ago
MANGA!!!
motohagiography · 4 years ago
Maybe the post is a "Parable of Lightening / Kolmolgorov Complicty" trap, but I would like to say what I think this is being used as source material for, and I won't directly because there isn't an easy way to make a comment on it without being antagonistic, but it's important to recognize that there exists a manual of these organized tactics, produced by an organization that employed Herbert Marcuse, whose work is taught in every humanities undergrad in the western world, where their graduates largely go on to work in organizations appendant to the public sector.
jacobolus · 4 years ago
The Research and Analysis Branch of the OSS employed more than a thousand social scientists (including Marcuse) as information analysts, people who came out of academia for a while to aid the war effort vs. the Nazis. Many later went back to academia.

Implying without further evidence that therefore academic social scientists are secret saboteurs, part of a spy agency conspiracy, is defamatory nonsense. Whatever anyone thinks about Marcuse per se, this kind of cheap anti-intellectualism is deplorable.

motohagiography · 4 years ago
This comment is the least bizarre and unhinged accusation on the thread so I will respond to it.

There is nothing anti-intellectual about pointing out the tactics used within organizations today, learned in the universities, resemble this sabotage manual, especially since the tactics I am referring to are nihilistic and totalitarian, and come right out of what Arendt (as it turns out, a contemporary of members said school mentioned downthread) described as the necessary conditions for a totalitarian movement. There is zero controvsery that academia and its appendant institutions, and now big tech, and even finance has been compromised by a totalitarian movement whose members are trained that power is the highest good, that there is no truth, no God, no consequences, and other downstream effluent of what appears to be a strain of Heideggerian Marxism.

One hopes you apply the same standard of intellectualism to your fellow travelers whose best responses reduce to hysterical canards that are so absurd as to be beneath a denial. I encourgage you all to please, do better.

indigo945 · 4 years ago
It's not anti-intellectualism, it's rampant, straight-faced, rotten anti-semitism. Marcuse was Jewish, and the idea here is that (((they))), who already run the secret deep state, have taken over the universities, erstwhile organizations of pure, rational, white science (as evidenced by logical colonial era head measurements), and turned them into vile spaces intent on destroying the white race.

Nazi dogwhistle bullshit.

cdiamand · 4 years ago
Interesting, didn't know of that connection between OSS and Marcuse. I can see why one would err.. tiptoe around this.
narrator · 4 years ago
D) Spend as much time as possible alleging and arguing about Code of Conduct violations committed by the most productive members of the organization. Hire permanent staff to disrupt meetings and other work with these allegations. Accuse those who refuse to enthusiastically support these accusations.
ohdannyboy · 4 years ago
This reminds me of the South Park where the kids had to become skilled at baseball in order to lose the game and go home sooner. The instructions are basically to be an incompetent manger at middle levels, inefficient bureaucrat high levels and a Karen at every committee. But instead of just being that archetype, you're doing it carefully and methodically as a sabotuer.

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