A point a lot of people seem to miss is that there is a huge difference between making a vaccination mandatory, taking full responsibility for any side effects, and forcing people to get vaccinated by depriving them of their basic rights if they don't, but not taking any responsibility for side effects.
unwilling to get vaccinated is at least from a legal perspective not a "basic right". Austria had compulsory vaccination before (Smallpox). Measles vaccination is mandatory in Germany. The law is that during a pandemic the country is able to impose mandatory vaccinations.
I think even from a practical perspective it is shaky - forced medical procedures are distasteful but they are already morally on the table for things like insanity and similar things where decision making is impaired. So the raw power to do it is probably there and the ethical line is always subject to negotiation.
But how often are emergency powers of this nature rolled back? If governments put the monitoring systems in place to enforce a vaccine mandate it is never going to go away. It'll be War On Terror all over again, the theatre for getting on a plane is still ridiculous 20 years later. The vaccine mandate tracking and enforcement seems a lot more invasive than that.
It's not as clear cut as you say. The German constitutional court has not given its last word on the topic, even though they said in a preliminary decision that sufficient protection against Measles outweighs the right of unvaccinated children to go to school.
Nobody's actually forcing one to get vaccinated against measles in Germany. It's only mandatory for kids which go to daycare, kindergarten or school and their caregivers and teachers. OTOH, going to school is mandatory, so for kids it is pretty much mandatory by extension.
We have free universal healthcare in Austria. And the state carries responsibility for problems as long as a vaccine has been officially approved. It was possible to get COVID vaccine before approval (off label it's called) but you assume responsibility.
Well, people still have the ability to refuse at great costs to themselves and ultimately the state itself. I think the low level of protection and associated risks cannot establish enough room for a vaccination mandate. And that mandate is also again something different than a pass. I am vaccinated but I won't use a green pass. That shit won't ever go away again and we would see this every winter when the flu hits a bit harder.
For Austria they are completely new... And AFAIK there's no European country which requires all adults to get any vaccine, it's mostly kids and specific professions.
Who knows what's happening? Everything depends on the enforcement, and there's no details on that yet except that it will be a "Verwaltungsstrafe" not to get vaccinated.
In a country with a sensible healthcare system there will likely be no difference. In the US, say, there may well be. For example, if there are health consequences due to taking the vaccine, who pays?
Austria has it especially hard since they earn a lot of money from outside tourism during the winter ski season, which is the prime season for higher covid numbers and hospitalization overload. Its a desperate measure as they seem to loose at least half of the winter season this year again.
Forcing their people to undergo a medical procedure to accommodate tourists and allow the private tourist industry to profit sounds even more dystopian. If they're worried about hospital capacity, they should build more hospitals or restrict tourism.
Here in Italy you receive forced vaccinations up until the age of 16. Some more are strongly encouraged after, see tethanus.
I can't understand why everyone is okay with vaccinating against polio after seeing its devastating and life altering effects on an unvaccinated adult, still refuse to protect themselves against a disease that killed millions in two years.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) :
Austria is the first country in Europe to introduce mandatory Corona vaccination for all. The announcement was made by Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg following the government's meeting with state governors at Achensee in Tyrol. The mandatory vaccination will come into force on February 1. Due to the sharp rise in the number of infections and the overload of hospitals, a lockdown will be imposed across the country for 20 days starting Monday. After that, recovered and vaccinated people will be exempt from the lockdown.
Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg regretted that not enough people could be convinced of the usefulness of vaccination. He said the government had waited too long for people to voluntarily get vaccinated. In view of the many dead, sick and overburdened hospitals, there was now no other way out than compulsory vaccination. Unfortunately, many people had been deterred from vaccination by false news from radical opponents of vaccination. The Corona virus remains. The vaccination is until now the only means to be able to live halfway normal despite the virus.
Austria is suffering from a massive fourth wave of infection, which could not be broken with the measures taken so far.
IMHO this is much better than all these "vaccination ID card" that many other countries have been implementing (including mine), which basically
A) effectively forces you to vaccinate anyway (unless you want to live like a monk)
B) means I have to show what is effectively an ID card everywhere I go (and I really mean everywhere), and the poor employees have to waste time checking it
Regarding A, you can also get a test every few days and use that.
Regarding B, it depends on the country, in France nobody besides locations that are age restricted ( bars, sex clubs, etc.) have the right to ask for your ID, and it was explicitly clarified that this doesn't change with the Covid pass.
Regarding A, getting the test every few days is even more problematic, privacy wise and convenience-wise. Plus it's an expense. Not a much better alternative than living like a monk.
Regarding B, yes it is France. The pass itself is asked for in ALL restaurants and a shitton of other establishments, e.g. (large) supermarkets and dept stores , libraries, public transportation, etc. <https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/pass-sanitaire#...>
Gibraltar surge in covid cases and is cancelling lots of events, but has 100% vaccination rate. No stopping restrictions and cases even with 100% vaccination rate.
Where do you get the information from that they are cancelling lots of events? As far as I can tell they are only giving out guidelines how you should behave if you want to have a party but no rules that prevent any event[0]. Also they only cancelled official events meaning events organized by the government: "Given the exponential rise in the number of cases, the Government, for example, intends to cancel a number of its own functions including official Christmas parties, official receptions and similar gatherings." from [1]
As an Austrian I'd like to note: We've also previously had a vaccination mandate for smallpox. There's a precedent here, at least.
Whether you're for or against a vaccination mandate I leave up to debate. But either we get everyone vaccinated or everyone needs to actually follow proper COVID rules. The second option hasn't worked out great so far, as you might be able to tell.
This is simply an anti-science viewpoint that isn't supported by the facts at all. Previously infected are better protected than fully vaccinated. Unvaccinated kids are less at risk that fully vaccinated adults. Even vaccinated people can spread the virus.
With all of the previous reporting on Austria's "lockdown of the unvaccinated", it was usually quietly left out that it was a lockdown of the unvaccinated AND never infected. (https://www.austria.info/en/service-and-facts/coronavirus-in...). Does anyone know if that's the case here as well?
This is still scary, but what's more scary to me is other western countries who willfully ignore immunity from recovery taking this as inspiration.
Readit News
see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccination_policy#Compulsory_...
But how often are emergency powers of this nature rolled back? If governments put the monitoring systems in place to enforce a vaccine mandate it is never going to go away. It'll be War On Terror all over again, the theatre for getting on a plane is still ridiculous 20 years later. The vaccine mandate tracking and enforcement seems a lot more invasive than that.
Nobody's actually forcing one to get vaccinated against measles in Germany. It's only mandatory for kids which go to daycare, kindergarten or school and their caregivers and teachers. OTOH, going to school is mandatory, so for kids it is pretty much mandatory by extension.
Also mandatory vaccines are not new either
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20211029-why-mandatory-va...
This would be a fine, but that's not saying much.
Maybe you missed that, but the US Government does take responsibility for side effects.
VAERS = Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System [1]
VICP = National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program [2] -> this is for injuries you suffer from any vaccine
CICP = Countermeasures Injury Compensation Program -> this is for things such as the Covid vaccine
[1] https://vaers.hhs.gov/
[2] https://injurycompensation.hrsa.gov/
I can't understand why everyone is okay with vaccinating against polio after seeing its devastating and life altering effects on an unvaccinated adult, still refuse to protect themselves against a disease that killed millions in two years.
Deleted Comment
Austria is the first country in Europe to introduce mandatory Corona vaccination for all. The announcement was made by Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg following the government's meeting with state governors at Achensee in Tyrol. The mandatory vaccination will come into force on February 1. Due to the sharp rise in the number of infections and the overload of hospitals, a lockdown will be imposed across the country for 20 days starting Monday. After that, recovered and vaccinated people will be exempt from the lockdown.
Chancellor Alexander Schallenberg regretted that not enough people could be convinced of the usefulness of vaccination. He said the government had waited too long for people to voluntarily get vaccinated. In view of the many dead, sick and overburdened hospitals, there was now no other way out than compulsory vaccination. Unfortunately, many people had been deterred from vaccination by false news from radical opponents of vaccination. The Corona virus remains. The vaccination is until now the only means to be able to live halfway normal despite the virus.
Austria is suffering from a massive fourth wave of infection, which could not be broken with the measures taken so far.
A) effectively forces you to vaccinate anyway (unless you want to live like a monk)
B) means I have to show what is effectively an ID card everywhere I go (and I really mean everywhere), and the poor employees have to waste time checking it
Regarding B, it depends on the country, in France nobody besides locations that are age restricted ( bars, sex clubs, etc.) have the right to ask for your ID, and it was explicitly clarified that this doesn't change with the Covid pass.
Regarding B, yes it is France. The pass itself is asked for in ALL restaurants and a shitton of other establishments, e.g. (large) supermarkets and dept stores , libraries, public transportation, etc. <https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-coronavirus/pass-sanitaire#...>
We are entering a 10-20 day lockdown countrywide from Monday though.
Meanwhile in Vienna airport you still have small smoking rooms full of passengers beside the gates.
[0] https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/press-releases/public-health-gu...
[1] https://www.gibraltar.gov.gi/press-releases/rise-in-active-c...
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-m...
That's is 98 deaths since the beginning of the pandemic.
Dead Comment
Whether you're for or against a vaccination mandate I leave up to debate. But either we get everyone vaccinated or everyone needs to actually follow proper COVID rules. The second option hasn't worked out great so far, as you might be able to tell.
This is still scary, but what's more scary to me is other western countries who willfully ignore immunity from recovery taking this as inspiration.