t’s true that some popular picture books do seem to have a suburban setting: Victoria Kann’s Pinkalicious series (2006-), the Berenstain Bears series (1962-) by the Berenstain family, and Norman Bridwell’s Clifford the Big Red Dog (1963-) come to mind. But these books also come to mind when I consider books I’d rather burn than read – not because they take place in the suburbs but because they’re so poorly written and illustrated. My only claim here is that the best children’s books forgo suburbia.
Just thinking about my kids' favorites of late and the Ladybug Girl series is set in exurbia and Mac B Kid Spy is set in suburban California when he's not flying off to England and elsewhere in the service of the Queen of England.
He also counts the Curious George books as being not suburban, which might be true of the original series, but there's a reboot by different authors that has a suburban feel. George drives around in a car, and goes to places like a pancake breakfast and a chocolate factory that don't seem to be in Brooklyn. These books aren't great, but my son likes them, as well as most of the other books that this article has committed to the flames.
The Margaret and H. A. Rey books are frequently not urban as well. There was one where George borrows a pump from a nearby farm to try to clean up the mess he made with ink. There is no consistent geography in the books.
This is a pretty sweeping generalization. The suburb I grew up in was and still is plenty walkable (though it is admittedly even more bikeable/driveable) and has plenty of places for kids to have adventures. Of course, I've definitely been to many suburbs that are completely unwalkable by design, but not every suburb is like that.
(My sense is that more recently-built suburbs tend to be more heavily designed around a presumption of car ownership, but that's just based on my own experience.)
> The suburb I grew up in was and still is plenty walkable
I think on HN a lot of the urbanites think of suburbia as an endless sea of cookie-cutter houses on nondescript, seemingly identical streets. Nothing but houses for as far as you can see.
That certainly exists in some places, I'm sure. But some of us grew up in places like Portland, Oregon, which is essentially one big suburban city (sure, there is an urban core, but it's tiny). Lots of single family houses, but lots of retail, industrial, and office space intermixed. Very walkable in most areas.
I think a lot of the break down of suburban discussion happens because of this. There's a pretty wide range of perception based on different life experience.
Portland isn't a big city but it is a city. An urb, not a suburb. Portland actually has suburbs of its own. It has so many suburbs that they're ranked by someone who does that kind of thing (not that I vouch for the rankings):
This just doesn't strike me as true at all. Most of my children's books have very non-descript settings that begin in non-connected single family houses. But regardless of that framing, so many of my kids' books dive into the realm of the protagonist's imagination.
This honestly just sounds like another indirect shot taken at suburban life. I get it, internet content writers disproportionately live in the big cities, but to quote the Dude, this is just like, your opinion, man.
Yeah. I'm not convinced settings for kids books really tell us more about urban planning than they tell us about the the problem with not enough political situations being solved by encounters with handsome princes these days. And I'm pretty sure that well established story tropes predate suburbanism and republicanism is more of a factor in the popularity of certain types of fantastical settings than magic kingdoms full of trolls being more walkable than the cul-de-sacs kids often grow up in.
It doesn't help that the author acknowledges that there are in fact numerous kids' books set in suburbs, he just doesn't like them very much. :D
The children's books actually show hansome princes very rarely. Those are featured in traditional stories, m but most children's books in bookstore are decisively not that.
What you call well established story tropes is not actual content of actual children's books.
Most of my childhood books were rural based adventures. The books my kid has are mostly rural or have no setting at all.
I agree that stories involving houses tend to portray single family homes. I can't think of any that actually portray that house in a suburban setting (the premise of the article). I'm sure they are out there, but none come to mind for me.
Then the question is really, so what if the settings are not suburban? I didn't really see an answer to that in the article, so I guess they were just trying to point out that there may be fewer topics for childhood adventures set in suburban areas.
My favorite children's book growing up (the embarrassingly named Captain Underpants) was definitively suburban.
More generally, I guess I'd question what it means to portray a house as suburban. The author seems to be assuming that anywhere with cool nature stuff in walking distance is rural, and that's not true; my definitively suburban house growing up was within easy walking distance of a pretty well-forested park on one side and a creek on the other.
Looking at the bookshelf at preschool books, and only including ones with children, I see two :Pirates next door" books, both starting in "Dull-on-sea, a gloomy seaside town", and some Alfie books (where Mum takes him to various locations where he has magical adventures - diving into a swimming pool and being abducted by pirates, been driven to school but it's actually and alien school, etc)
I don't get this hate at suburbs either, unless it's by 30-somethings that love their city lives but now want kids and are trying to convince everyone that the city is the best place. If you think that, that's fine, plenty want space and open air.
There does seem to be an issue with American suburbs though. Every suburb in the UK I can think of has pavements down the side of every road, has a primary school within walking distance, a secondary school in biking distance, a bus stop within half a mile. Indeed there are specific limits like "distance to supermarket", "distance to postbox", etc which come into the planning process.
We also have a National Planning Policy Framework, which states things like
give priority to pedestrian and cycle movements, and have access to high quality public transport facilities
and
create safe and secure layouts which minimise conflicts between traffic and cyclists or pedestrians, avoiding street clutter and where appropriate establishing home zones
New developments have to provide appropriate public open space in them, the larger the development, the more space, but as a rule of thumb a development of 400 houses will have a large multi use game area (basket ball, 5-a-side soccer, etc), playground, and an acre of two of informal green space, far more than in a city or town centre.
There's nothing wrong with suburbs, just how they are implemented.
Also, if you change that to "children's shows" instead of "children's books", most of them are set in something resembling a suburb: Peppa Pig, Paw Patrol, Bubble Guppies, etc. Sesame Street is a notable exception.
It's always bothered me that the local government of Adventure Bay chose to outsource pretty much all municipal services to a ten year old boy and his back of trained dogs.
Agreed. The article uses a very cliche American suburb stereotype as if it is representative of suburbs, but ignores the fact that suburb life has more to offer than soccer mom stuff.
Look at Calvin and Hobbes for a good example of a great deal of memorable stuff happening in a clearly suburban setting. A lot of primary/secondary school geared books, especially those geared towards girls, are set in suburban neighborhoods and schools.
Outside of American culture, you can see a lot of suburban themed stories. For example, many school-themed mangas happen in suburbs.
The Brazilian comic Monica's gang is another good example of stories happening primarily with kids hanging around a suburban neighborhood.
If reading the tea leaves about urban planning is the game, then it's also cherry picking.
How come kids are totally disinterested in cars? Oh wait, they're not disinterested in cars. There's a popular series of movies called Cars, and kids' toys include endless variations of cars like remote controlled cars and collections of miniature cars. When playing, kids will happily make vroom vroom noises and simulate car jumps and stunts and crashes, but I have never seen children's play involving the scenario of walking to a restaurant instead of driving there.
I feel the same way. As a city kid, I always felt left out because almost everything in US culture is based on the big suburban 'American Dream' home or, less often, rural life. I remember only being able to relate with Sesame Street because, gasp, people lived in apartments and hung out on city blocks with other kids just like I did! Kids books were a mixed bag, but definitely had more city representation than TV or movies.
On a more practical and aesthetic level, drawing cobblestone streets, cozy neighborhood stores, hand carved sandstone facade apartment buildings, etc is a lot more glamourous than drawing tract suburban housing, so I can see the appeal of it aesthetically. Also from what I've read about some of these authors, they were city people as well, so they just drew what they knew. The migration of the middle class to the suburbs didn't happen until many of these authors were well retired, so if kids are reading the more classic books, they'll see a bit more city life than usual and almost exclusively NYC where so many budding creatives had access to NYC's incredible publishing industry.
Lastly, kids can't drive. So if you want a kid having an adventure where he meets various storekeeps, neighbors out running errands, friends, pet stores, schools, etc then a walkable city makes the most sense. Walkable areas are just more communal and neighborly than suburban life as well. Its more realistic if a kid goes on an adventure in a city than in the suburbs were the only practical way around is being driven around. Bikes, less so, when the nearest store is 5+ miles away and there's no bike lanes. I also imagine parents are more comfortable with books not encouraging little kids to ride bikes in the street. As a parent, my recollection is that a lot of the books exist in a weird nebulous middle ground unless they outright take place in NYC or London or Paris for narrative reasons. Kids can walk through a urban downtown area with stores and neighbors but also end up in big suburban houses on big suburban streets in the same book and without taking a bus or a cab between either. So its probably hard to really divide this into city vs suburban if we want to be fair about it. Authors will do whatever fits their narrative. The walkable city is appealing but so is the big home, so why not have both?
> Its more realistic if a kid goes on an adventure in a city than in the suburbs were the only practical way around is being driven around.
As a kids who grew up in a few different suburbs in 2 different countries, I'd challenge that assertion. We had tons of adventures, visited a lot of cool places, and did a lot of exploring (on our own), all within a few miles of our homes. We'd ride out bikes to the liquor store / arcade / cemetery / 7-11 / park / community center / museum etc. When younger, we'd have to get off and push out bikes back up the hill the last few blocks sometimes (I lived on a very steep hillside).
Nothing about living in the 'burbs precludes adventure...
Why do so few events that shape your life or are worthy of mention take place in the suburbs, a place where people mostly sleep/rest?
This reminds me of "liquid networks" from Steven Johnson's book "Where Good Ideas Come From". Here's a talk where he addresses it briefly, timestamped at the moment he starts talking about "liquid network"[0]
Things worth telling mostly happen in cities, or the internet.
I grew up in suburbs, I went to school in suburbs. I met my wife in the suburbs, I had my first kiss in the suburbs. I definitely had some formative events that occurred on the mid-90s Internet, and would not be the person I am today without it.
But I for damn sure also wouldn't be the person I am today if I hadn't rode my bike to my friends' houses to trade floppy disks or watch Schwarzenegger films, or sneaked out to the mall to meet folks, or hung out at the neighborhood strip-mall comic shop and picked up various CCGs and RPGs.
> Why do so few events that shape your life or are worthy of mention take place in the suburbs, a place where people mostly sleep/rest?
Your idea of a suburb and mine are apparently quite different. I live my entire life here. Buying food, going to work, going out to eat, going to concerts, meeting friends, etc. Why would I only eat & sleep here? Hell, if anything, it's the downtown core that gets quiet at night as all the businesses shut down and along with them about half the restaurants.
Let me put on my cognitive neuroscience hat. It's because the market for children's books is parents. And parents want a sentimental cognitive effect when reading to their kids (the article mentions 'romanticization' which in cognitive terms is sentimental feelings). I don't know many parents who have sentimental feelings for their upbringings in the suburbs, mainly because by the time they learned what the concept of the 'suburb' is, they were probably entering high school, which is to say, they were entering miniature delayed adulthood, while having to navigate a completely artificial political sphere (high school). That being said I'm sure its a fine story world and captain underpants has certainly done a great job with it.
So the article addresses its own question and the answer is children’s stories require walking because it’s children and the suburbs aren’t generally walkable (or interestingly walkable) environments.
Readit News
t’s true that some popular picture books do seem to have a suburban setting: Victoria Kann’s Pinkalicious series (2006-), the Berenstain Bears series (1962-) by the Berenstain family, and Norman Bridwell’s Clifford the Big Red Dog (1963-) come to mind. But these books also come to mind when I consider books I’d rather burn than read – not because they take place in the suburbs but because they’re so poorly written and illustrated. My only claim here is that the best children’s books forgo suburbia.
Just thinking about my kids' favorites of late and the Ladybug Girl series is set in exurbia and Mac B Kid Spy is set in suburban California when he's not flying off to England and elsewhere in the service of the Queen of England.
(My sense is that more recently-built suburbs tend to be more heavily designed around a presumption of car ownership, but that's just based on my own experience.)
I think on HN a lot of the urbanites think of suburbia as an endless sea of cookie-cutter houses on nondescript, seemingly identical streets. Nothing but houses for as far as you can see.
That certainly exists in some places, I'm sure. But some of us grew up in places like Portland, Oregon, which is essentially one big suburban city (sure, there is an urban core, but it's tiny). Lots of single family houses, but lots of retail, industrial, and office space intermixed. Very walkable in most areas.
I think a lot of the break down of suburban discussion happens because of this. There's a pretty wide range of perception based on different life experience.
https://www.niche.com/places-to-live/search/best-suburbs-for...
What I don't get is why people with this view are as adamant as CrossFit junkies in proselytizing their worldview. Some of us like the suburbs.
This honestly just sounds like another indirect shot taken at suburban life. I get it, internet content writers disproportionately live in the big cities, but to quote the Dude, this is just like, your opinion, man.
It doesn't help that the author acknowledges that there are in fact numerous kids' books set in suburbs, he just doesn't like them very much. :D
What you call well established story tropes is not actual content of actual children's books.
I agree that stories involving houses tend to portray single family homes. I can't think of any that actually portray that house in a suburban setting (the premise of the article). I'm sure they are out there, but none come to mind for me.
Then the question is really, so what if the settings are not suburban? I didn't really see an answer to that in the article, so I guess they were just trying to point out that there may be fewer topics for childhood adventures set in suburban areas.
More generally, I guess I'd question what it means to portray a house as suburban. The author seems to be assuming that anywhere with cool nature stuff in walking distance is rural, and that's not true; my definitively suburban house growing up was within easy walking distance of a pretty well-forested park on one side and a creek on the other.
I don't get this hate at suburbs either, unless it's by 30-somethings that love their city lives but now want kids and are trying to convince everyone that the city is the best place. If you think that, that's fine, plenty want space and open air.
There does seem to be an issue with American suburbs though. Every suburb in the UK I can think of has pavements down the side of every road, has a primary school within walking distance, a secondary school in biking distance, a bus stop within half a mile. Indeed there are specific limits like "distance to supermarket", "distance to postbox", etc which come into the planning process.
We also have a National Planning Policy Framework, which states things like
give priority to pedestrian and cycle movements, and have access to high quality public transport facilities
and
create safe and secure layouts which minimise conflicts between traffic and cyclists or pedestrians, avoiding street clutter and where appropriate establishing home zones
New developments have to provide appropriate public open space in them, the larger the development, the more space, but as a rule of thumb a development of 400 houses will have a large multi use game area (basket ball, 5-a-side soccer, etc), playground, and an acre of two of informal green space, far more than in a city or town centre.
There's nothing wrong with suburbs, just how they are implemented.
Look at Calvin and Hobbes for a good example of a great deal of memorable stuff happening in a clearly suburban setting. A lot of primary/secondary school geared books, especially those geared towards girls, are set in suburban neighborhoods and schools.
Outside of American culture, you can see a lot of suburban themed stories. For example, many school-themed mangas happen in suburbs.
The Brazilian comic Monica's gang is another good example of stories happening primarily with kids hanging around a suburban neighborhood.
How come kids are totally disinterested in cars? Oh wait, they're not disinterested in cars. There's a popular series of movies called Cars, and kids' toys include endless variations of cars like remote controlled cars and collections of miniature cars. When playing, kids will happily make vroom vroom noises and simulate car jumps and stunts and crashes, but I have never seen children's play involving the scenario of walking to a restaurant instead of driving there.
On a more practical and aesthetic level, drawing cobblestone streets, cozy neighborhood stores, hand carved sandstone facade apartment buildings, etc is a lot more glamourous than drawing tract suburban housing, so I can see the appeal of it aesthetically. Also from what I've read about some of these authors, they were city people as well, so they just drew what they knew. The migration of the middle class to the suburbs didn't happen until many of these authors were well retired, so if kids are reading the more classic books, they'll see a bit more city life than usual and almost exclusively NYC where so many budding creatives had access to NYC's incredible publishing industry.
Lastly, kids can't drive. So if you want a kid having an adventure where he meets various storekeeps, neighbors out running errands, friends, pet stores, schools, etc then a walkable city makes the most sense. Walkable areas are just more communal and neighborly than suburban life as well. Its more realistic if a kid goes on an adventure in a city than in the suburbs were the only practical way around is being driven around. Bikes, less so, when the nearest store is 5+ miles away and there's no bike lanes. I also imagine parents are more comfortable with books not encouraging little kids to ride bikes in the street. As a parent, my recollection is that a lot of the books exist in a weird nebulous middle ground unless they outright take place in NYC or London or Paris for narrative reasons. Kids can walk through a urban downtown area with stores and neighbors but also end up in big suburban houses on big suburban streets in the same book and without taking a bus or a cab between either. So its probably hard to really divide this into city vs suburban if we want to be fair about it. Authors will do whatever fits their narrative. The walkable city is appealing but so is the big home, so why not have both?
As a kids who grew up in a few different suburbs in 2 different countries, I'd challenge that assertion. We had tons of adventures, visited a lot of cool places, and did a lot of exploring (on our own), all within a few miles of our homes. We'd ride out bikes to the liquor store / arcade / cemetery / 7-11 / park / community center / museum etc. When younger, we'd have to get off and push out bikes back up the hill the last few blocks sometimes (I lived on a very steep hillside).
Nothing about living in the 'burbs precludes adventure...
This reminds me of "liquid networks" from Steven Johnson's book "Where Good Ideas Come From". Here's a talk where he addresses it briefly, timestamped at the moment he starts talking about "liquid network"[0]
Things worth telling mostly happen in cities, or the internet.
- [0]: https://youtu.be/0af00UcTO-c?t=538
But I for damn sure also wouldn't be the person I am today if I hadn't rode my bike to my friends' houses to trade floppy disks or watch Schwarzenegger films, or sneaked out to the mall to meet folks, or hung out at the neighborhood strip-mall comic shop and picked up various CCGs and RPGs.
Your idea of a suburb and mine are apparently quite different. I live my entire life here. Buying food, going to work, going out to eat, going to concerts, meeting friends, etc. Why would I only eat & sleep here? Hell, if anything, it's the downtown core that gets quiet at night as all the businesses shut down and along with them about half the restaurants.
1) That childrens stories aren't set in the suburbs
2) That suburbs aren't generally walkable
3) That suburbs aren't interesting
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079688/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_65
That was 41 years ago. Over the Edge, Sixteen Candles, Ferris Bueller were more common than ET.