> As Daniel Boffey notes for the Guardian, using a metal detector for anything other than scientific research is outlawed in France.
Oh wow, there must be a big story behind this law. How could something so mundane as a metal detector be banned? The article says he "stole these from sites", is that implying he went to active dig sites or public attractions?
There is so much to unpack here. Are ground penetrating radars also banned?
> How could something so mundane as a metal detector be banned?
Obviously it's not...
The actual law says:
"Nul ne peut utiliser du matériel permettant la détection d'objets métalliques, à l'effet de recherches de monuments et d'objets pouvant intéresser la préhistoire, l'histoire, l'art ou l'archéologie, sans avoir, au préalable, obtenu une autorisation administrative délivrée en fonction de la qualification du demandeur ainsi que de la nature et des modalités de la recherche." [Code du patrimoine Article L542-1]
"No one can use material allowing detection of metal objects to look for monuments and objects which can interest prehistory, history, art or archeology, without having, beforehand, obtained an administrative authorization delivered depending the qualifications of the applicant and the nature and modalities of the search."
So basically you cannot use a metal detector to do illegal archeological search. This law is weird though, since it actually condemn the intent and not the act. I'm no lawyer but I'm guessing it's pretty hard to condemn anyone with this law since anyone thoughtful enough can hide his intent (or at least prevent producing any proof of such intent).
I would rather historically interesting objects that don't belong to anyone be unearthed and return to humanity, be they owned by an individual or a museum.
Otherwise they continue degrading under the surface, and what good is that?
It really doesn't matter if anyone bothers to look for it. If it's on public land, it belongs to the state. You're also not allowed to chop down a tree or dig a hole.
Banned to use for searching artifacts - this is a common ban across EU countries. It's the same in Slovakia. You can buy a metal detector, but it's illegal to use it for this purpose.
Wait, he went around different sites all around two countries digging this stuff up, and officials were surprised he didn’t turn it over to the state?
Nobody could be bothered to retrieve these artifacts in the first place. I don’t see how the state has (or should have) any more inherent right to them than this guy.
The least they could do is pay him for the objects. Apparently they’re worth 700k!
The UK has similar laws, requiring people who find things defined under the Treasure Act 1996 (except in Scotland) as treasure to report their find to a coroner within 14 days. See:
The bottom line isn't "finders keepers", but rewards are fair and often handsome. The rules try to strike a balance between public interest/education, common good, and providing an incentive against individual greed.
This makes a lot of sense. These artefacts usually disappear in a museum's basement and nobody actually gives a shit, but officials act as if they have great value. If the museums actually have to shill out some money, it becomes quite clear which artefacts actually do have value and which don't.
No. There are two issues: the artifacts are not just treasure - scientifically their context (in the ground and in time) is what matters, the context the treasure hunter removed them from. I.e., he prevented scientists from ever being able do the digs themselves. The other issue is that, AFAIK, scientists often prefer to leave parts of sites intact for future research, presumably hoping for better technology in the future.
Removing the treasures from their context removes a lot of the scientific value of the finds. A coin tells us that the much more if you know where it was buried.
Mit to mention that the fact that European states are so authoritarian and immoral about it incentivized theft and deception. I wouldn’t have even bothered reporting anything if I were him, and this case seems to prove the point why. They’ve likely also note through their draconian policies lost the information on where the finds were made and all associated historical knowledge, e.g., the coins of a certain type would indicate the location of possible troop movement that was not clear before.
“This is a clear message to those who, for the benefit and selfish pleasure of a few, rob us of our common heritage and erase entire swaths of our history.”
There should be a better process to legally report the items or exchange them for market value so this wouldn't happen in the first place?
How is it destructive if before the treasure hunter there was no treasure and now there is one? Things underground degrade with time so finding them helps to preserve them.
It does not have to be destructive, and a swarm of amateurs could achieve much more than those lazy ass ivory tower archaeologists if a good framework of rules existed.
Yes, because if you remove treasures from their context we you often destroy an important archeological site. Many European countries do not want looters to destroy their heritages and windows into history.
Interesting. There seems to be a major cultural difference on this.
On the one hand, the argument is that individuals collecting artifacts destroys the scientific utility of the excavation site. On the other hand, someone doing the work to find coins seems better than nobody doing that work and having them lay in the ground.
I wonder if there are more instances of this trade-off between potential good and immediate good.
Prior to some big court cases and changes to repatriation law in the 80s and 90s, the mafia was heavily involved with looting archaeological heritage in places like Italy. Criminals would dig them up and move them through Swiss freeports using false provenance records and auction them off to museums and private collectors in other countries. This caused irreparable damage to our understanding of these objects history and context.
It’s not often discussed, but much of what you can see of Greco-Roman artifacts in the permanent collections of American museums, for example, was likely to have been looted.
> “This is a clear message to those who, for the benefit and selfish pleasure of a few, rob us of our common heritage and erase entire swaths of our history.”
Speaking of robbing heritage and history, this guy is a complete amateur, compared to the history robbing that the European nations engaged in. Many archeological treasures were stripped from India, Africa, and the Middle East and sent to European museums. Furthermore, those collections are still at the museums and for the most part have not been returned to the countries from which they were taken.
Readit News
Oh wow, there must be a big story behind this law. How could something so mundane as a metal detector be banned? The article says he "stole these from sites", is that implying he went to active dig sites or public attractions?
There is so much to unpack here. Are ground penetrating radars also banned?
Obviously it's not...
The actual law says: "Nul ne peut utiliser du matériel permettant la détection d'objets métalliques, à l'effet de recherches de monuments et d'objets pouvant intéresser la préhistoire, l'histoire, l'art ou l'archéologie, sans avoir, au préalable, obtenu une autorisation administrative délivrée en fonction de la qualification du demandeur ainsi que de la nature et des modalités de la recherche." [Code du patrimoine Article L542-1]
"No one can use material allowing detection of metal objects to look for monuments and objects which can interest prehistory, history, art or archeology, without having, beforehand, obtained an administrative authorization delivered depending the qualifications of the applicant and the nature and modalities of the search."
So basically you cannot use a metal detector to do illegal archeological search. This law is weird though, since it actually condemn the intent and not the act. I'm no lawyer but I'm guessing it's pretty hard to condemn anyone with this law since anyone thoughtful enough can hide his intent (or at least prevent producing any proof of such intent).
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/article_lc/LEGIARTI0000...
Its not unreasonable for the rules to be something more than the playground "Finders, Keepers". Grow up.
Further, Poland has one of the highest rates of metal detector usage.
Nobody could be bothered to retrieve these artifacts in the first place. I don’t see how the state has (or should have) any more inherent right to them than this guy.
The least they could do is pay him for the objects. Apparently they’re worth 700k!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Act_1996
Finders have to offer the treasure for sale to a museum/similar at a price determined by an independent panel.
The UK also has broader, older rules governing "treasure trove", with slight regional variations. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_trove
The bottom line isn't "finders keepers", but rewards are fair and often handsome. The rules try to strike a balance between public interest/education, common good, and providing an incentive against individual greed.
There should be a better process to legally report the items or exchange them for market value so this wouldn't happen in the first place?
And this is so heinous an action that metal detectors are banned?
On the one hand, the argument is that individuals collecting artifacts destroys the scientific utility of the excavation site. On the other hand, someone doing the work to find coins seems better than nobody doing that work and having them lay in the ground.
I wonder if there are more instances of this trade-off between potential good and immediate good.
Aint gonna work!
https://www.npr.org/2011/05/16/136252401/chasing-aphrodite-a...
It’s not often discussed, but much of what you can see of Greco-Roman artifacts in the permanent collections of American museums, for example, was likely to have been looted.
Speaking of robbing heritage and history, this guy is a complete amateur, compared to the history robbing that the European nations engaged in. Many archeological treasures were stripped from India, Africa, and the Middle East and sent to European museums. Furthermore, those collections are still at the museums and for the most part have not been returned to the countries from which they were taken.