Inspiration https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25096877
Polls are not supportedUpdate: List of "symptoms of major depressive disorder" https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/sy...
Readit NewsReadit NewsUpdate: List of "symptoms of major depressive disorder" https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/sy...
So is that depression? I have no idea, but I hate the feeling and I pray that once this pandemic is over, the symptoms will fade.
Yep, but the cause in your case is unknown. For example, it could be work burnout causing it. It could be not going outside that is causing it. It could be not socializing that is causing it. It could be your diet. It could be ...
If you can identify the cause you can find a solution. Unfortunately, the best most people have is a shotgun approach where they try a combination of solutions attempting to address every possible cause.
When in a depressed state it makes you want to lay down, to do less. It's exhausting and depending on how bad the depression is sleeping seems better. For the majority, doing the exact opposite of how you feel works to get out of that state, which isn't easy for many, so it helps to take it slow. Sometimes just walking around in a circle in your house for 15-20 minutes can sometimes be enough. This can be done without getting dressed or even thinking about it. It can be done while cooking food or going to the bathroom. It's only 15 minutes and for many that is enough exercise to start feeling not drained again.
For many today depression can be caused by doing too much instant gratification type activities in your free time, which can cause that feeling drained feeling. I find having a hobby can help a lot, because then you're not bored. I find getting a hobby can be hard. It can come from a need, like being aggravated with something and wanting to improve it, but it also comes as a side effect from socializing with people. People talking about what they've been up to, what they're passionate about, or even what they hate, can all plant seeds of inspiration that can eventually lead to a hobby. So for some the solution to this kind of depression is socializing.
And it goes on. This is why talking to a professional (preferably someone who specializes in CBT, but it's not required) can help. It typically only takes a few months of therapy to get out of most kinds of depression.
I would push back on the notion that there has to be a cause for depression. Maybe there is, but it can lead to the dangerous conclusion that it’s somehow one’s fault, when it’s actually a maladaptive behavioral state; a disease.
Fully agree with your advice to talk to a professional.
Another tack is to approach the activity as an experiment or exploration. Not I must do this, or even if I do this it will help, but: I wonder if it will help, or even I bet it won't, let's see who's right!
I personally got to the point where I was practically fantasizing about dying and still wasn’t sure if that’s real depression. I think we ease into it and forget what being happy was like, such that the depression practically becomes normal. It’s awful
It's really amazing how easy this is to understand, if you've been through it.
Do a depression test.[1] And remember that there is nothing wrong with being depressed. It's just like having the common cold, it's a temporary illness that can pass.
Seriously, just do the test and if you need meds take them. It can save you a huge amount of pointless lost effort. There is nothing wrong with being depressed.
[1]: https://psychcentral.com/quizzes/depression-quiz/
One thing interesting about society and its effect on individuals mental state, is it the absolute rating of a society's sanity (however we could rate that) or rather the delta between present and past, along with the perceived prospect of its future delta? You are perhaps touching on this as you are writing going "down" the hill. We might still be at the top of the Mountain, but that's hardly relevant.
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1) A good first step is to see your GP, if you have one, and if you don't look up some reviews and find a decent one. If you're at the point where you lack the motivation to even do that, ask a friend or loved one to do it for you. If you don't have a resource like that around you, just click this link & put in your own zip code: https://www.healthgrades.com/usearch?what=General%20Medical%...
You see a GP first because they should run something like a complete metabolic panel along with tests for things like vitamin D levels. It's entirely possible to get mis-diagnosed with (psychological) depression when there is a more concrete metabolic cause.
Other readers, please please don't downvote this next part for language, use of caps, etc., this is seriously important
2) About it never going away. Oh hell that's the feeling all right. But here's the thing about a depressed brain telling you things: IT IS A FUCKING LIAR. Your mind tells you that, so you feel worse, and it feels even harder to over come, and the spiral continues. You CAN feel better. It might honestly be the hardest thing you ever do, but you have to claw back up inch by inch. Shit, inches can be hard at times. Go for millimeters when you need to. When you get pushed back down at times, IT'S TEMPORARY. Just keep taking that tiny step in front of you. One. Tiny. Step. Motivation is hard. Doing things you liked before is hard. Focus on doing small things. Focus on finding 5 minutes, or one minute, of distraction from your headspace at a time. A good simple technique is to overload your physical senses: 1) Light a candle/spray some scent 2) Put on some background noise-- music, anything 3) Fill a glass (real glass to conduct the cold) to the top with ice, and ANYTHING carbonated. If you don't do soda, go for seltzer or something. Wrap your hands around the cold glass. Keep it near your lips & take sips. You've got all 5 senses covered: Smell, sound, touching the cold, hearing the fizz of the bubbles, the taste as you sip & sensation of the carbonation. You're brain does have a bandwidth limit, and hitting all 5 senses saturates a lot of it. An ice-cold shower is also good. These things aren't silver bullets, aren't a cure: You're looking to get incremental periods of time where you don't feel like crap. Over time, they can build, and get easier. Look for other small 5 minute distractions that take you out of your head, whatever works. Getting out of this is a game of inches.
Finally: NONE of #2 replaces treatment. It's a single coping mechanism that can work to take the slightest edge off things. Therapy, medication if needed, those should be on your list for consideration. Maybe check out the DBSA: https://www.dbsalliance.org/support/ Groups are everywhere, and if that's not your thing or none are actually near you, they do daily online meetings. Talk or not, or just take it in. Sometimes knowing it's not just you can help, but you'll also hear how other people cope with this. A good inventory of coping mechanisms to take the edge off is very important.
IT WON'T LAST FOREVER. YOU CAN FEEL BETTER.
To most anyone thoughts that pop up in our head come out of a black hole, an unknown. What's actually happening is we're seeing something in the present moment (thinking memories in the present moment too) and that thing we're seeing causes an emotional response, often an unconscious one. The unconscious mind then looks for neighboring memories by emotional lookup and brings those familiar memories up into conscious thought, which is how ideas pop up in our head.
This is a pretty profound insight, because for example, it means when one is in a depressed state, if it is strong enough, all they can remember is memories of being in a similar emotional state causing a memory compartmentalization. This forgetting of positive memories makes depression seem like it's forever. One helpful thing is a photo of a good memory, or a letter to ones self, or another form of nostalgia, which can then pull the person out of the depressed episode. For some people it's enough to end the depression then and there in its tracks.
Likewise, from this understanding, it can be easy to see the challenge therapists face regarding depression and other memory compartmentalization related psychological disorders, because their patient forgets instructions that could help them when they need it most.
This also shows how manipulation works. How, emotional language can determine how a person thinks, programming them. One fun experiment is to watch a bit of Fox and look at the emotions instead of what they're directly saying. You'll start to see things like they're telling people to not trust others, for example, or like how they were saying anything regarding Biden is boring, so you shouldn't watch it, and so on. Manipulation is controversial to talk about, but so is depression, so fuck it. Let's have some fun. ^_^
The correct way to say this is "I didn't feel".
It might be irrelevant, but if I were in your shoes I would have liked to be shown the correct way to say it. Not trying to be pedantic.
Edit: unless you meant "I haven't felt", which has of course a different meaning.
One thing I can say, at least for me, is that exercise has helped.
Universities and Colleges right now are pretending to be accommodating, but the stress on students is outright dangerous right now.
Oh, and the cherry on top? My university is going to have a football game on campus the same day as many of us are taking on-campus finals. Brilliant.
So, I'm both depressed and pissed off. Running on fumes of rage? Motivated by the existential dread of my impending student loans for a semester of education worse that I could have gotten off of YouTube? I don't know man. I just want to not feel like death and have time (and the ability) to breathe.
Do reach out to any reliable support you feel you can get to. A lot of university counsellors are apparently not that great, but if you've got a network to help you, use it. Dealing with the pressure of university work plus external stuff can put anyone into a really bad place (speaking from personal experience and the experience of a number of other people I knew from ugrad and grad school).
The thing is, I think I won't achieve those goals, and that makes me anxious, not medically anxious, but there's this constant felling of dread.
So, I wouldn't say I'm depressed, but I have this constant dread that accompanies me everyday.
Medication, meditation, therapy and exercise are great tools for improving quality of life. Not feeling constant dread is wonderful. 10/10 would recommend taking steps to alleviate.
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trust me young person, I've been on disability for depression for the last ten years! it's all been a purgatorius bad dream. align your goals with the work you love and tell yourself it's ok if you don't meet your goals.
I've reached many of my goals. for instance; flying an airplane. but i never was a fighter pilot like i wanted to be.
we are all a set of experiences. unique in this regard. that's the beauty of it all. so don't be less in by the prestige [see my recent posts on prestige ;]
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I cut mainstream social media from my life and reduced screen time. I am more optimistic. I am able to fight against the profitable pessimism.
I am reducing the urge to hoard more material belongings. I learnt that on HN. I was able to let go off fancy toys and electronics that I didn't use anymore but kept because I bought them and grown attached to them. If I don't use it, it's better someone else can. I don't want to keep them on eBay for months.
4x faster than before? I don't care to look more unless I need it.
I re-evaluate my room and budget every month in order to cut down what isn't needed. If I don't do that, I will keep using past as a justification for piling up more til I suffocate between Amazon boxes.
I bought a dustbin for my neighborhood because people were throwing wrappers outside and placed it with a note. So far, some people are using it and that makes me happy. Reciprocity is a powerful tool and I am optimistic someone will think about what I did and do the same in future.
I write more using a paper notebook. goals, priorities, learnings, etc. Software note taking tools suck because they limit your freedom on what you can do. At the end of my todos, I make origami pets from them as a reminder of what I able to accomplish.
Don't be afraid of being messy. Here's my notes from a few days ago: https://ibb.co/yPGb4Z8
They aren't coherent but just enough to remind me.
I am currently going through psychology of money (although it doesn't seem that interesting yet) but I can take up a few recommendations if you have any :)
I have been using audible as my primary way to read (listen?) and supplement it with kindle. Reading is too much friction at first but once I get past the first chapter, I am eager to pick up the written book.
I really hate that it took this but I've had my feelings/depression talked down so much by people who don't understand depression, don't believe it's a real thing, etc.
I've had so many conversations with friends this year that go like this; "I've lost my entire personality, I can't motivate myself to get out of bed.. whats wrong with me, is this depression?"
Yes, yes it is. Maybe it's temporary, maybe it's acute or chronic, but that is depression. You never know how long it will last, what it will take from you or how quickly you can overcome it.
Be kind to people.
edit: Reading this again I can't shake that some of you are just so far removed from actually understanding your own feelings and emotions that you can't even recognize that you're depressed. It's absolutely fascinating. "What are depressive symptoms?"
I'll say that one positive of this struggle throughout my life is that I've learned which emotions and feelings I can trust or let guide me. I often don't get it right and focus on the negative but I'm very glad I'm cognizant and it's a bright burning fire of "Yeah I'm depressed this week oh boy let's work on this, I need to make some changes."
For example, I am quite aware that I have some feeling X. I am just not sure whether other people use the word "depression" to refer to X, or something else. Maybe "depression" actually refers to 10 times X, how am I supposed to know?
Sometimes people use the same words to describe different things (or different degrees of the same thing), sometimes people use different words to describe the same thing. I don't have a direct access to your feelings, so how am I supposed to tell whether my feelings are the same?
I wonder what could be good ways to "calibrate" one's words against each other
So thereafter two people who say "depression" mean the same thing and X strength
E.g. I have no idea what depressive symptoms are.
For example here are two things drastically different and the medical industry considers both to be depression:
1) Being overly pessimistic and skeptical to the point of believing nothing is worth trying and nothing can be done. "Nothing I try will ever help me. My depression will last forever." This can come in the form of rationalizing why nothing will work when they have a problem, so they get suck. (An example of learned helplessness.)
2) Catching a chronic cold that may or may not cause irritable bowel syndrome that has the side effect of inflammation in the stomach which then in turn minimizes or outright removes the ability to feel positive emotions. Some may experience other side effects beyond inflammation, like long term cold symptoms where they want to lay in bed all day, not socialize, or do much. They feel sloth-like in an identical way to one feels when they have a cold, minus the sinus pressure and coughing.
This can be caused by anger, despair, loss of a loved one, brain chemical imbalance, alcoholism, drug addiction, etc.
Severe symptoms would including thinking about harming yourself or others.
And coincidentally the best advice for dealing with it is I got from HN comment that really gave me a huge insight into why i was feeling the way I was feeling and a simple fix to remedy it somewhat.
Burnout is caused when you repeatedly make large amounts of sacrifice and or effort into high-risk problems that fail. It's the result of a negative prediction error in the nucleus accumbens. You effectively condition your brain to associate work with failure.
Subconsciously, then eventually, consciously, you wonder if it's worth it. The best way to prevent burnout is to follow up a serious failure with doing small things that you know are going to work. As a biologist, I frequently put in 50-70 and sometimes 100 hour workweeks. The very nature of experimental science (lots of unknowns) means that failure happens. The nature of the culture means that grad students are "groomed" by sticking them on low-probability of success, high reward fishing expeditions (gotta get those nature, science papers) I used to burn out for months after accumulating many many hours of work on high-risk projects. I saw other grad students get it really bad, and burn out for years.
During my first postdoc, I dated a neuroscientist and reprogrammed my work habits. On the heels of the failure of a project where I have spent weeks building up for, I will quickly force myself to do routine molecular biology, or general lab tasks, or a repeat of an experiment that I have gotten to work in the past. These all have an immediate reward. Now I don't burn out anymore, and find it easier to re-attempt very difficult things, with a clearer mindset.
For coders, I would posit that most burnout comes on the heels of failure that is not in the hands of the coder (management decisions, market realities, etc). My suggested remedy would be to reassociate work with success by doing routine things such as debugging or code testing that will restore the act of working with the little "pops" of endorphins.
That is not to say that having a healthy life schedule makes burnout less likely (I think it does; and one should have a healthy lifestyle for its own sake) but I don't think it addresses the main issue.
link to original comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5630618
Every day, my daydreams would be about whether or not today was the day I'd decide to kill myself to end my misery. The hardest part was finding a way to kill myself without hurting those I did care about: my family. Any way I gamed a suicide: it would result in somebody in my family blaming them-self, or someone else, over it. And I didn't want to die like that.
I don't really remember when it started. I know my first serious suicidal thought freaked me out (to the point where I cried myself to sleep that night). But I also know that it didn't take very long until I accepted the constant haunting of suicide as my everyday normal. The period lasted for years.
I must emphasize how _NORMAL_ depression feels when you have it. You wake up with it, you got to sleep with it, and then tomorrow morning you wake up with it again. You learn to live with it. You forget what life was like before you had depression.
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I don't have any advice for people in depression. All I can say is that I somehow climbed out of it and absolutely don't have it anymore. If I knew how it happened, then I'd tell you. But as far as I can tell, it was just dumb luck.
I do have advice for people who are worried about someone with depression however. You cannot convince them that their feelings of depression are "non-normal". Depression is just with you, its something you carry in that period, just how you live your life. The concept that you could even possibly shed the feelings is boggling.
If you want to talk about depression, with someone who has depression, then you cannot treat it as if it were "special" or "exotic". Depression is just every-day life for someone with depression. Telling someone that they can "get rid of depression" would be like saying... you don't have to poop anymore. It just doesn't "make sense" on any level when you have depression. I mean, yeah, life would be better if I didn't have to poop all the time, but I expect that I'll have to poop tomorrow.
Yes. Though that is not always the case, people can experience depression in different ways, but many people don't realize they're depressed until a chance conversation with a doctor raises an alarm bell.