So, here's some information I've been seeing about masks.
1. After breathing in a mask for a while, the outside is now "potentially contaminated" with COVID19. Treat the outside of a mask as if it were infected.
Do NOT touch the mask while using it. Do NOT rub your eyes, etc. etc. Do NOT put on the mask backwards. It is recommended to color-code the inside and outside to make it easier to see.
2. There are a ton of discussions about how to disinfect a cloth mask. Kitchen equipment is commonly recommended. Boiling the mask, letting it sit in the oven for some time, etc. etc. You only need to raise the temperature to ~212F or so (boiling) to disinfect. (maybe lower, but boiling is easy because the bubbling water serves as a temperature gauge).
There may be easier chemical treatments, such as bleach when you're washing the cloth mask. But boiling is obviously safe.
----------
Note that "N95" masks are only 95% effective against viruses (even if you did everything correctly). Homemade masks will probably only reach 70% or maybe as low as 50%. You aren't invulnerable, you just have a layer of protection on.
I think this "home made mask" idea is very good. We need to leave the N95 masks for professionals, because the USA has a mask shortage (and N95 masks are disposable. One-time use).
> The most directly relevant data is on SARS and measles, where natural differences in doses were associated with factors of 3 and 14 in death rates, and in smallpox, where in the 1700s low “variolation” doses given on purpose cut death rates by a factor of 10 to 30.
If you can cut the dose by 70%, it gives your immune system more time to ramp up ahead of the virus, which often translates into a more controlled infection with lower level symptoms, if any.
Perhaps my advice is specific to repurposed T-shirt masks then. But this study boiled the masks before testing and use.
The study was designed for poorer countries without as much infrastructure. Which is why the materials are so simple and the methods crude. But those attributes are very useful for the DIY community.
Here is an awesome technical video on using different methods to clean and reuse masks. Deals with Ozone, Alcohol, UV other disinfectants https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UdtKssU7po
"Note that "N95" masks are only 95% effective against viruses (even if you did everything correctly)."
There are masks that offer greater protection than N95. Among them are N99, N100, and various others. There's a good article that discusses some of the differences here: [1]
"N95 masks are disposable. One-time use"
Some types of N95 masks are disposable, others are reusable. Also, even the disposable kind could be (and have been) reused. This is, for example, widely done in hospitals where there's a short supply of masks, on the theory that some protection (even if imperfect) is better than no protection.
If there is a good seal, N95 will do better than 95% in almost all cases. The 95% is for the maximum penetrating particle size, i.e. the worst case size particle. This is typically about 0.3um. Particles that are larger or smaller than this will be filtered above 95%. If you want to nerd out on filtration theory, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEPA is a good place to start.
> Helps remind you not to touch your face [and precludes direct touch to mouth and nose--where mucus membranes are vulnerable].
I like these instructional videos about how to put masks on and take them off, because they emphasize that you should be washing your hands when you put the masks on and take them off.
EDIT- I think I wasn’t clear— mask is critical protection, and the risk of infection from wearing one incorrectly is far lower than not having one at all. I was just responding to the final paragraph that the mask doesn’t do much good if transferred from mask to mouth during removal— very true, but it also reduces the quantity of the virus ingested.
Hmm, I'm not sure about this one. Going to the pharmacy today, I noticed some people wearing masks, and just in the short time I saw them, many were adjusting/fiddling with their masks.
There is a definitely a learning period when you wear a new type of garment eg. suits or turtle necks, when you adjust a lot. Then you learn over time, and stop adjusting so much.
If you are concerned you will infect yourself by touching your face too much, just wear a mask at home for a few days, and get over the adjustment phase in a safe environment.
Mask will stop viruses getting through. Definitely adjusting mask is less hazardous than not wearing one and touching your face. Its interesting for me to just now notice how everyone constantly touches thier face all the time in some way or another.
In this attempt by the US government to stop this pandemic I found their suggestion not to wear mask the most disgenuine of all, especially knowing that countries with high mask wear awareness see this virus much more under control. In the same paragraph they already express they really need those masks for themselves so they don’t want you to hoard. Another argument was they only help when you sick. So all medical personel is sick? What a BS! Even more when they know you may be asymptomatic for up to 9 days.
The only thing I can think of equal to this would be if during HIV outbreak they were to tell you not to use condoms at all because study shows they don’t protect exact 100% times, and you can cut your member with your nail while you putting the rubber on, making it more prone to infections than when you’re actually wearing one.
Government really messed up on this one. Once the dust settles it will probably go into history books how our government suggestion not to buy/wear mask caused USA to be #1 in statistics.
When all is said and done a serious re-evaluation of the WHO’s mission and actions during this pandemic needs to take place. When the world needed them most, they failed spectacularly.
In mid January they said that China had no evidence of human to human transmission despite Taiwan telling them otherwise, probably due to political reasons. They refused to declare a pandemic weeks after it was clear it was one, and even now they still insist on ignoring the data we have around masks.
The WHO is, unfortunately, not a reliable source. They've repeatedly lied throughout the course of this pandemic. This is probably a well-intentioned one to preserve the global supply of masks, unlike previous lies which served only to make China look good, but the bottom line is that you shouldn't trust what they have to say.
CDC has said the same. Now people defend them saying they lied because they didn't want the public to hoard them but mask supply chains have been effected since probably January. I went to multiple Home Depots (upstate NY) end of February and they all told me they've been out of stock for more than a month. We couldn't hoard them even if we wanted to. Why even lie? It's pretty damn infuriating. Sk, HK, and Taiwan all have it under control because people there have been a lot more careful. They don't leave the house without a mask. Meanwhile in NYC, people were all casual about it up until maybe last week. Partly because of the delay in government response.
I myself have quoted the WHO and asked my friends not to wear them unless they're sick. Shouldnt have :(
Even in HN, until last week there were many articles linking to studies which said that surgical masks were not proven to reduce your chances of getting the virus.
That's another lie. Go to HD or Walmart and ask them how long they've been out of stock for. There was never a rush in the US. Healthcare workers should have their own supply from hospitals.
Great website, I just have one suggestion. Before the message to wear a mask have in big red letters: "DO NOT GO OUT IN PUBLIC UNLESS IT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY! No mask is more effective than simply not being around other people. BUT, if you absolutely must go out..."
Most of us on HN are well off and have the opportunity to WFH. Things aren't the same for the rest of the general public. All of those essential workers risking their necks for us should have access to masks.
Here is what the rest of the general public is also doing:
“I also see people congregating on the beach that are completely ignoring what we’re doing,“ he said, “and I will remind these folks: You are being very very selfish because you are putting all of us, including our health care providers, at risk.”
To echo this, wearing a surgical mask consistently will maybe decrease your odds of getting Covid-19 by a factor of 3. That isn't the same as being immune so don't take unnecessary risks.
Yet, all we need to stop this is a couple 3x reductions in spread. Staying home is one path. Wearing masks another. We must not take risks, but we should all do what we can.
Please find a word that means "an ordinary piece of fabric that you can build yourself and wear if you're not sick".
At least in France, "Wear a mask" would be understood as "wear an FFP2, surgical-level" mask. The kind of masks:
* that we are in very short supply of at the moment (for various and sad reasons)
* that we have to save for doctors
* that everybody would try to buy on black markets if you asked them to use
* that we unfortunately told people not to try and buy (precisely because we need to save them for doctors because they are in short supply, etc...)
So if a campaign started today saying "wear a mask", with the intention of saying "cover your mouth with a piece of fabric that you made yourself if you're not sick", I suspect it would be counter-productive.
My Argentinian wife tells me it's similar in Spanish - a mask would mean an N95 mask or similar. And a surgical mask would not be included if I understand correctly (they are not as good as N95 masks, they're mostly just a piece of fabric).
Just, please please please make sure they're home-made masks. If you have any professionally-created surgical masks, you should donate them to healthcare workers, who need them much more than you.
I live in Manhattan, and I still see people walking around outside with "real" masks.
Many of us already own and use 'real' masks, before the covid situation started. People absolutely have the right and the duty to protect themselves and those around them to the best of their abilities (without detrementally impacting others). While those hoarding, reselling at markup, and wasting supplies deserve any and all shame leveled at them, the quality of their PPE is in no way an indicator of such. Many are likely healthcare workers themselves.
> "Note: Please do not buy surgical or N95 masks because we need to keep those available for the doctors, nurses and first responders so they can stay healthy and care for the ill."
Kinda dumb point, since a healthcare worker is the one who gave me my single surgical mask in the first place. They don't want you to "donate" back a single used mask that your doctor gave you in the first place.
Is there a site listing donation sites? I have a box of N95 masks from biking during wildfire season last year, and would like to get them to where they can be of use.
I feel like there's a good business here. Like T-shirts, I can see masks becoming another form of self-expression e.g. branded masks, funny slogans, etc.
I know over at coquetryclothing.com they used to decline to make masks due to possible liability reasons. Now they are making custom ones with all manner of fabrics.
Maybe after things have settled down. Right now, the right thing to do is to hand those out free to everyone, to normalize the safe behaviour. You can make your buck later.
Funky bicycle masks with colors or logos were often 30-80€ in 2016, and despite not being even FFP1. There is an opportunity, but there is also a feeling that health apparel should be bland and ugly if they are serious. It’s like wearing a suit at a programmer interview: Often a hint that one aspires more to the commercial side than the technical side, despite both being competent.
that's an interesting idea! I've seen personalized welding masks. You'd have to make sure it doesn't interfere with the functioning of the mask. Just producing them in different colors would be a start.
Interesting how the public opinion on this turned around as the virus spread. I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during flu season like people do in Asia.
While I agree, it wasn’t just general public opinion. In NYC at least, it was widely stated in the media by government officials and doctors that masks were unnecessary if you’re healthy, and actually could be bad because people were 1) removing surgical/n95 masks from supply, 2) wearing a cloth mask improperly sanitized can make you sick with other things.
I like how Jeremy’s site has directly addressed those original concerns.
> In NYC at least, it was widely stated in the media by government officials and doctors that masks were unnecessary if you’re healthy, and actually could be bad
The WHO and CDC have been pushing that line as well. Studies linked to in the above article suggest that even home made masks provide some protection to healthy individuals. But even if they didn't, getting everyone to wear them would be extremely valuable for stopping the spread coming from people who don't know they have the disease. Also, "Don't come in hear unless you have something covering your face" is an easy rule for establishments to enforce, whereas "If you have Coronavirus you need to cover your face" is impossible to enforce.
Yet I've seen almost no leadership at any level in the U.S. pushing this (and this seems to be true in much of the West). Lockdowns buy us time, and we seem to be wasting that.
does it have to be n95 to prevent spread? my understanding was the n95 rating protects you from infected people where a plain old surgical mask protects others from you. In other words, the n95 mask has what it needs to prevent you inhaling the virus where a regular mask has what it needs to prevent a sneeze or cough from escaping to the people around you.
> I wonder if this will lead to people in the west wearing surgical masks during flu season like people do in Asia.
Normalizing masks will also help fight facial recognition. IIRC, the Chinese systems have trouble with people who are wearing a surgical mask and sunglasses. No attention-grabbing dazzle makeup required.
Readit News
1. After breathing in a mask for a while, the outside is now "potentially contaminated" with COVID19. Treat the outside of a mask as if it were infected.
Do NOT touch the mask while using it. Do NOT rub your eyes, etc. etc. Do NOT put on the mask backwards. It is recommended to color-code the inside and outside to make it easier to see.
2. There are a ton of discussions about how to disinfect a cloth mask. Kitchen equipment is commonly recommended. Boiling the mask, letting it sit in the oven for some time, etc. etc. You only need to raise the temperature to ~212F or so (boiling) to disinfect. (maybe lower, but boiling is easy because the bubbling water serves as a temperature gauge).
There may be easier chemical treatments, such as bleach when you're washing the cloth mask. But boiling is obviously safe.
----------
Note that "N95" masks are only 95% effective against viruses (even if you did everything correctly). Homemade masks will probably only reach 70% or maybe as low as 50%. You aren't invulnerable, you just have a layer of protection on.
I think this "home made mask" idea is very good. We need to leave the N95 masks for professionals, because the USA has a mask shortage (and N95 masks are disposable. One-time use).
Home-made masks can be reused through washing.
This protection is more than the numbers may seem. See this essay on the benefits of contracting a disease in a smaller dose:
http://www.overcomingbias.com/2020/03/variolation-may-cut-co...
> The most directly relevant data is on SARS and measles, where natural differences in doses were associated with factors of 3 and 14 in death rates, and in smallpox, where in the 1700s low “variolation” doses given on purpose cut death rates by a factor of 10 to 30.
If you can cut the dose by 70%, it gives your immune system more time to ramp up ahead of the virus, which often translates into a more controlled infection with lower level symptoms, if any.
Instead disinfect them with dry heat in an oven or rice cooker. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22680799
Perhaps my advice is specific to repurposed T-shirt masks then. But this study boiled the masks before testing and use.
The study was designed for poorer countries without as much infrastructure. Which is why the materials are so simple and the methods crude. But those attributes are very useful for the DIY community.
There are masks that offer greater protection than N95. Among them are N99, N100, and various others. There's a good article that discusses some of the differences here: [1]
"N95 masks are disposable. One-time use"
Some types of N95 masks are disposable, others are reusable. Also, even the disposable kind could be (and have been) reused. This is, for example, widely done in hospitals where there's a short supply of masks, on the theory that some protection (even if imperfect) is better than no protection.
[1] - https://fastlifehacks.com/n95-vs-ffp/
- Stops infected people [including asymptomatic] from expelling infectious particles.
- Helps remind you not to touch your face [and precludes direct touch to mouth and nose--where mucus membranes are vulnerable].
- Much better chance of a low inoculum [a smaller initial viral load results in less severe symptoms].
[1] https://youtu.be/i6Gy9nPAQE0?t=1988
I like these instructional videos about how to put masks on and take them off, because they emphasize that you should be washing your hands when you put the masks on and take them off.
How to Put on a Surgical Mask: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWnTCZWYOBw
N95 3M mask: How to Wear & Remove: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoxpvDVo_NI
The mask won't do as much good if you just end up transferring the virus to your face after taking it off.
NNTaleb: Asymmetry: error FROM NOT wearing masks is vastly costlier than the error FROM wearing masks.
https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1244976894686179328?s=21
EDIT- I think I wasn’t clear— mask is critical protection, and the risk of infection from wearing one incorrectly is far lower than not having one at all. I was just responding to the final paragraph that the mask doesn’t do much good if transferred from mask to mouth during removal— very true, but it also reduces the quantity of the virus ingested.
Hmm, I'm not sure about this one. Going to the pharmacy today, I noticed some people wearing masks, and just in the short time I saw them, many were adjusting/fiddling with their masks.
If you are concerned you will infect yourself by touching your face too much, just wear a mask at home for a few days, and get over the adjustment phase in a safe environment.
In this attempt by the US government to stop this pandemic I found their suggestion not to wear mask the most disgenuine of all, especially knowing that countries with high mask wear awareness see this virus much more under control. In the same paragraph they already express they really need those masks for themselves so they don’t want you to hoard. Another argument was they only help when you sick. So all medical personel is sick? What a BS! Even more when they know you may be asymptomatic for up to 9 days.
The only thing I can think of equal to this would be if during HIV outbreak they were to tell you not to use condoms at all because study shows they don’t protect exact 100% times, and you can cut your member with your nail while you putting the rubber on, making it more prone to infections than when you’re actually wearing one.
Government really messed up on this one. Once the dust settles it will probably go into history books how our government suggestion not to buy/wear mask caused USA to be #1 in statistics.
> If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.
The World Health Organization still recommends that you wear masks only if you're taking care of someone with COVID-19. Why is it so?
Like if the evidence is so clear, why aren't they advising the general public about this? (PS. non-native english speaker, ignore poor english)
[1]https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2...
In mid January they said that China had no evidence of human to human transmission despite Taiwan telling them otherwise, probably due to political reasons. They refused to declare a pandemic weeks after it was clear it was one, and even now they still insist on ignoring the data we have around masks.
Even in HN, until last week there were many articles linking to studies which said that surgical masks were not proven to reduce your chances of getting the virus.
from: https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/30/maryland-shelter-in...
People are still going out and doing things around and with other people. And they shouldn't be, even with a mask.
At least in France, "Wear a mask" would be understood as "wear an FFP2, surgical-level" mask. The kind of masks:
* that we are in very short supply of at the moment (for various and sad reasons)
* that we have to save for doctors
* that everybody would try to buy on black markets if you asked them to use
* that we unfortunately told people not to try and buy (precisely because we need to save them for doctors because they are in short supply, etc...)
So if a campaign started today saying "wear a mask", with the intention of saying "cover your mouth with a piece of fabric that you made yourself if you're not sick", I suspect it would be counter-productive.
We need another word.
My Argentinian wife tells me it's similar in Spanish - a mask would mean an N95 mask or similar. And a surgical mask would not be included if I understand correctly (they are not as good as N95 masks, they're mostly just a piece of fabric).
I live in Manhattan, and I still see people walking around outside with "real" masks.
Some people bought their masks long before the mask shortage, and hospitals don't accept donations of used masks.
> "Note: Please do not buy surgical or N95 masks because we need to keep those available for the doctors, nurses and first responders so they can stay healthy and care for the ill."
I know over at coquetryclothing.com they used to decline to make masks due to possible liability reasons. Now they are making custom ones with all manner of fabrics.
The WHO and CDC have been pushing that line as well. Studies linked to in the above article suggest that even home made masks provide some protection to healthy individuals. But even if they didn't, getting everyone to wear them would be extremely valuable for stopping the spread coming from people who don't know they have the disease. Also, "Don't come in hear unless you have something covering your face" is an easy rule for establishments to enforce, whereas "If you have Coronavirus you need to cover your face" is impossible to enforce.
Yet I've seen almost no leadership at any level in the U.S. pushing this (and this seems to be true in much of the West). Lockdowns buy us time, and we seem to be wasting that.
Normalizing masks will also help fight facial recognition. IIRC, the Chinese systems have trouble with people who are wearing a surgical mask and sunglasses. No attention-grabbing dazzle makeup required.
It sucks that we even need to think about wearing masks to escape facial recognition.