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dwohnitmok · 6 years ago
There's a somewhat closer Chinese saying from Mencius, although it is not at all a curse and is advocating non-ironically for an "interesting" life.

生于忧患,而死于安乐也

In troubles and worry is there life. In peace and satisfaction is there death.

Yes by that sentence alone there's some ambiguity; it could be by living in troubles and worry [you shall] die in peace and satisfaction, but the preceding sentence in the work makes me lean away from that interpretation: 出则无敌国外患者,国恒亡 (if from without there are no opposing nations to worry about, then a country inevitably dies).

EDIT:

The whole preceding passage from the Mencius is an interesting paean to struggle.

故天将降大任于斯人也,必先苦其心志,劳其筋骨,饿其体肤,空乏其身,行拂乱其所为,所以动心忍性,曾益其所不能。

人恒过,然后能改。困于心,衡于虑,而后作;征于色,发于声,而后喻。

A rough translation:

Thus when Heaven is about to place such an important mission on the shoulders of these people, it first must hardship their hearts, tire their sinews and bones, famish their skin and flesh, impoverish their bodies, and foil their actions. Through this Heaven can move their hearts and impart patience upon their personalities, thereby improving their weaknesses.

Humans shall always make mistakes, but afterwards they can improve. They shall be hindered in their hearts and confounded in their thoughts. Afterwards shall they spring to action. They shall wear this pain on their face and express it with their speech. Afterwards shall they understand [or perhaps be understood].

schoen · 6 years ago
This reminds me slightly of the passage in Cicero of which the "lorem ipsum" text is a mangled version.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum#Source_text

(but I'm not sure that the philosophical position advocated is that similar)

rdiddly · 6 years ago
Here's an unexpected gem, from John Francis Davis: “The Chinese: A General Description of the Empire of China and Its Inhabitants” (1836):

The Chinese have lived so much in peace, that they have acquired by habit and education a more than common horror of political disorder. “Better be a dog in peace than a man in anarchy,” is a common maxim. “It is a general rule,” they say, “that the worst of men are fondest of change and commotion, hoping that they may thereby benefit themselves; but by adherence to a steady, quiet system, affairs proceed without confusion, and bad men have nothing to gain.”

Kind of says something about our beloved "disruption."

EDIT: Awww, boo hoo!

scarmig · 6 years ago
People overstate the stagnation of the Qing dynasty.

That said, the cultural inertia and resistance to adapt to changing global patterns made China's 150 years after 1836, shall we say, full of change and commotion. To paraphrase Pericles, just because you do not take an interest in disruption doesn't mean disruption won't take an interest in you.

monocasa · 6 years ago
>“It is a general rule,” they say, “that the worst of men are fondest of change and commotion, hoping that they may thereby benefit themselves; but by adherence to a steady, quiet system, affairs proceed without confusion, and bad men have nothing to gain.”

Chaos is a ladder.

bhouston · 6 years ago
The Shock Doctine by Naomi Klein sort of talks about that.
mikhailfranco · 6 years ago
"Never let a good crisis go to waste"
frogpelt · 6 years ago
And Gandhi did not say "Be the change you want to see in the world."

Instead, he apparently said:

“We but mirror the world. All the tendencies present in the outer world are to be found in the world of our body. If we could change ourselves, the tendencies in the world would also change. As a man changes his own nature, so does the attitude of the world change towards him. This is the divine mystery supreme. A wonderful thing it is and the source of our happiness. We need not wait to see what others do.” – Mahatma Gandhi

But did he say it in English? I don't know.

jackbravo · 6 years ago
So sounds like "Be the change you want to see in the world." is a nice summary of the whole phrase, right? :-)
syrrim · 6 years ago
It's a funny tendency that these fake quotes always manage to capture the essence of what they are misquoting.
frogpelt · 6 years ago
Pretty much.
trianglem · 6 years ago
Gandhi did speak English is my contribution to this thread.
schoen · 6 years ago
He was even admitted to practice law in the United Kingdom (and did successfully practice for two decades in South Africa while it was part of the British Empire).
new2628 · 6 years ago
He did and he wrote some nice things in it for western consumption and he also wrote a lot in Gujarati, some of it less nice.
smartbit · 6 years ago
May You Live in Interesting Times is the name of the 2019 edition of La Biennale Arte in Venice [0]:

‘The 58th International Art Exhibition, titled May You Live In Interesting Times, takes place from 11th May to 24th November 2019. The title is a phrase of English invention that has long been mistakenly cited as an ancient Chinese curse that invokes periods of uncertainty, crisis and turmoil; "interesting times", exactly as the ones we live in today.’

Not withstanding the discussion what the origin of this years phrase is, I can highly recommend La Biennale Arte di Venice as a bi-yearly reflection on the zeitgeist. Besides the main exhibition, the 78 participating countries are represented with an exhibition by their finest artists, eg in 2011 the US pavilion featured a military tank turned upside down with a treadmill on top [1]

Venice can be reached from Paris by sleeper train [2] and from many other european destinations by train & air.

[0] https://www.labiennale.org/en/art/2019

[1] https://youtu.be/-0Dmptetj1s

[2] https://www.seat61.com/thello-train-from-paris-to-italy.htm

bkyan · 6 years ago
So, it's kind of like the fortune cookie thing, where people actually living in China have no clue what Americans are talking about?
rectangletangle · 6 years ago
Kind of curious what the counterpart to this would be. What things are typically ascribed to Americans, that Americans are often unaware of?

American Sauce in the Netherlands comes to mind.

bhaak · 6 years ago
When I was a kid, I was terribly confused about how a country could fly to the moon when it was depicted as quite rural in "The Waltons".
9nGQluzmnq3M · 6 years ago
An "Americana" pizza in Finland is ham, pineapple and blue cheese: https://www.kotipizza.fi/dist/pdf/KP_menu_A4_laaja_EN.pdf
fooblat · 6 years ago
Filet Americain or "American Filet" is a popular dish in the Netherlands and Belgium that I'm pretty sure not many in the USA have heard of.
AlEinstein · 6 years ago
Most people here in Australia have never heard of the Australian Shepherd breed of dogs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Shepherd

aidenn0 · 6 years ago
If it's this[1] you're referring to, it's called "thousand island dressing" in the US, except at McDonalds where it's called "Special Sauce." Also, sandwhiches that traditionally call for Russian dressing, such as a Reuben now typically use it as well (it's more sweet and less spicy than Russian dressing).

1: https://imgur.com/Fh8pSjk

lordnacho · 6 years ago
In Denmark when they want to make fun of American self-importance, they call it "guds eget land" or "God's own country". I've never heard the expression in English.
irrational · 6 years ago
Probably nearly everything portrayed in American movies and TV shows. Um, no, there is not choreographed singing and dancing in the cafeteria of American high schools.
jhbadger · 6 years ago
the "American Favorite" Toast Hawaii (an open faced ham and pineapple sandwich) in Germany.
Ididntdothis · 6 years ago
Germany has a pastry called “Amerikaner “. At least in the Stuttgart area.
bkyan · 6 years ago
Oh, interesting! As an American, I had to google that one.
kochikame · 6 years ago
In Japan, corndogs are called "American dogs"
smhenderson · 6 years ago
I was a bit surprised to see Americano as a coffee choice. Turns out it’s basically the plain coffee Americans make in regular coffee makers every morning.

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SenHeng · 6 years ago
There's a particular blend of coffee here in Japan called the American, which seems to be the default thing several of my friends get when ordering coffee. Not being a coffee person, I'm not sure how it's different. All cofee tastes revoltingly bitter to me.
mintplant · 6 years ago
Is it the same as an Americano? That term comes from Italians' observations of how WWII-era U.S. soldiers took their coffee: they watered down the strong Italian espresso to approximate the weaker coffee they were used to sipping over long periods back home.
atombender · 6 years ago
Americano [1], sometimes called American, is a style of coffee all over the world, though.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffè_Americano

fractallyte · 6 years ago
I read a long time ago that this quote was originally (and surprisingly) coined by the science fiction writer Eric Frank Russell. It certainly fits his humorous style, and the type of stories he used to write.

Unfortunately, I can't remember the source of this claim. However, this article does quote Arthur C Clarke's reference to the 'curse': As the old Chinese curse has it: “May you live in interesting times,” and the twentieth century is probably the most “interesting” period mankind has ever known.

Clarke and Russell were (as far as I recall) friends at university in the 1930s, which certainly fits the time period attributed to the quote.

So, I go with Eric Frank Russell, a writer who definitely had the finesse to create something so enigmatic and seemingly-authentic.

mrbonner · 6 years ago
During the 2008 subprime mortgage crash, JP Morgan CEO Jamie Dimon wrote an email to the world-wide staff about the acquisition of Bear, I remember he put "May you live in interesting times" in the email but I couldn't find any relevant explanation of the meaning of the quote. I asked a few Chinese/Vietnamese friends and they didn't seem to know the origin of it, either.

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Sir_Cmpwn · 6 years ago
There's also a book based on this quote by the legendary Terry Pratchett:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interesting_Times