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Posted by u/aosaigh 6 years ago
Ask HN: Is “new” Reddit completely unusable for anyone else?
I notice that when browsing Reddit day-to-day I am constantly getting either "Sorry, we couldn't load posts for this page" on a subreddit page or "Cannot load comments" on a thread page. This isn't just happening occasionally, it's been happening daily over the course of weeks.

There's been a lot of hate for the "new" Reddit design but outside of the actual usability of the site, there seems to be some huge problems from a technical perspective.

I've tried multiple browsers, internet connections,VPN enabled/disabled and it's always the same. I now just use https://old.reddit.com, but I'd be interested to hear if other people have the same experience?

It boggles my mind that a redesign could be implemented so poorly on such a popular site.

Retroity · 6 years ago
It is the worst redesign I've ever seen on a major website like this for a number of reasons. It's needlessly heavy on resources, it's slow, it's difficult to navigate, it's filled to the brim with ads, it's uninspired and takes away all of the charm of the old design in favor of making Reddit look like a more generic social media, it doesn't work with the wayback machine, and that's just scratching the surface.

It's such a awful design. I've explicitly opted out of the new design on my account, and I use old.reddit.com whenever I'm not signed in.

tzs · 6 years ago
It's also needlessly redundant. It has two completely different viewers for comments.

When you click the comments link on a story from the story list, it opens the comments in some kind of overlay on top of the story list. There is a "close" link near the top that dismisses the overlay to get back to the stories. The story list is still loaded in the browser, just not visible because the comments are in front of it.

Well, not visible to you. The story list is still visible to the browser's "search on page" feature, often making such searches useless. Also, scrolling in the overlay is way off on some browsers.

If you hit refresh, you get the more useful comment view. It's just the comments, without the story list lurking behind, and with unmolested scrolling.

They should just scrap this redesign, except for the fancier post editor. Port that to the old reddit and call it done.

MH15 · 6 years ago
My 2018 Macbook Pro i5 can't handle it. I get the "this site is draining your battery" warning far to often. I can't watch Netflix and browse Reddit at the same time anymore
winternett · 6 years ago
if you think that's terrible, check out the mobile browser version... It's full of pop ups that remind you to download their app, and none of the v.reddit or giphycat links work :/
Sendotsh · 6 years ago
I’ve noticed that about the giphy and v.reddit links. It’s so ridiculous. Their OWN image and video embeds don’t work on their own site on a stock standard iPhone with safari.

This redesign has been years in the making and a solid half of the basic features used every day don’t work.

It’s probably the single worst redesign I’ve ever seen a major site do.

chii · 6 years ago
This is why I use old.reddit.com, or the compact version ( https://reddit.com/.compact )
tamrix · 6 years ago
Not to mention half the time you load a page it fails to retrieve any data.
baggy_trough · 6 years ago
It's just awful, I agree. The sad thing is that original Reddit was highly usable, even if it looked a bit dated.
jonnismash · 6 years ago
That's a huge part of reddits charm for me.
jedmeyers · 6 years ago
Why aren’t you using old.reddit when you are signed in?
regecks · 6 years ago
You can, but the problem with using old.reddit.com is that clicking on reddit.com links (e.g. from reddit comments) will take you back to the new design. With the opt-out, you get the old design no matter what.
Retroity · 6 years ago
I opted out of the redesign on my account. That way, I use the old design on my account, even if I'm not using old.reddit.
ahodges22 · 6 years ago
You can actually set it in your account settings to default to the old design without needing to go to old.reddit.com
edgarvaldes · 6 years ago
I just append '.compact" to the URL.

Unrelated, but I also use m.facebook.com and the non JS version of gmail.

Xelbair · 6 years ago
Oh god, JS version of gmail is unusable on firefox.

Takes minutes(!) to load(multiple powerful machines - i7 3770k, i5 6th gen and i7 7700, tested on fresh OS installs of both Win10 and Ubuntu) - it fakes loaded status usually by displaying your last viewed page - which is very annoying as it has no loading bar nor a throbber.

It is horrible when you are waiting for 2FA code in email, or when resetting a password.

hlandau · 6 years ago
The new design is godawful and unusable, especially without JavaScript. Switching to old.reddit.com is a breath of fresh air. The juxtaposition seems like an ideal case study in how bad modern web design is. I swear it's almost like web designers are trying to make things worse.
robin_reala · 6 years ago
It’s not the designers’ fault, it’s developers seeing everything as a technology problem rather than a user needs problem (and I’m speaking as a developer). The best solution for any given problem is usually the simplest, at least until you find that you specifically need extra complexity to solve a user need. Unfortunately modern client-side development is fixed in a mindset of developer efficiency above all, which doesn’t naturally lead to simple solutions.
imustbeevil · 6 years ago
Even as a tech problem, the new UI puts less information on the screen and makes it harder to interact with. It's worse by every observable metric, and I can't imagine they have successful A/B testing, because every other site on the internet that does a redesign (Facebook, Twitter, Youtube) commits to it, and Reddit has allowed users to stay on old reddit for like a year now.

The weirdest thing is that successful alternative reddit UIs exist, so all they would have to do is incorporate the features people are using alternative UIs for. They did virtually the opposite of that. This is exactly what Digg did, and the solution for Digg wasn't "allow people to use old Digg", it was "Everyone left and went to reddit".

amelius · 6 years ago
> It’s not the designers’ fault, it’s developers seeing everything as a technology problem rather than a user needs problem

Yes, but in a big company developers don't define the product, (product) designers do.

zzzcpan · 6 years ago
I don't think it has anything to do with developer efficiency. My impression is that client-side development is seen by developers as sort of an unimportant throwaway specialization. Nobody cares about it or bothers to learn any of it even to be able to produce something of quality. First thing people stumble upon is the thing they decide to learn, which almost always means popular javascript framework of the month or whatever. Progressive enhancement, UX, accessibility are all unreachable expert level things to them. I guess my point is there are simply almost no skilled client-side developers available for hire for large organizations to be able to do well on this.
basch · 6 years ago
responsive sites and mobile apps have led to the mobilification of desktop sites. there is absolutely a branding/marketing/design trend pushing shiny over usability. ive noticed it in banks in the last 5 years, where they have replaced dense powerful beautiful text based interfaces with giant versions of their mobile apps. huge buttons, minimal screen density.

https://m.signalvnoise.com/why-i-love-ugly-messy-interfaces-...

i liked the old reddit BECAUSE it was a simple list of links that all behaved exactly as a link should when i click it, and didnt attempt to put visual flair over usability.

ishjoh · 6 years ago
Setting aside modern FE development practices, are you trying to say that the redesign of the reddit UI and it's poor usability is due developers choice of tools instead of what designers created?
vcavallo · 6 years ago
does “simplest” here mean simplest for the user to use, or simplest for the dev to build? these are sometimes completely opposed to one another.

an example: filtering a large table of data on multiple fields in an otherwise fully-server-rendered project. doing it server-side is likely mostly sql queries using existing stack and re-rendering the page after some “submit” click.

doing it client side means the data can react immediately to selections and never require a full page refresh (which might be costly, depending on the rest of the page). the dev downside is that this might require an enormous amount of new stack and complexity.

Xelbair · 6 years ago
I would rather say that it is a management problem.

Focus shifted from building userbase and sustaining business to milking ad revenue.

kgwxd · 6 years ago
If you have an account, you can set your preferences to use the "old" design by default so you don't have to manually use old.reddit.com. Uncheck "Use the redesign as my default experience". If that option goes away, I'm done with reddit.
kranner · 6 years ago
I’m sure an extension like Reddit Enhancement Suite will add the option if reddit stops supporting old.reddit.com.
Avamander · 6 years ago
It truly is an "experience", just like when people describe food as an "experience".
tootie · 6 years ago
I've been exclusively using https://i.reddit.com for years.
winternett · 6 years ago
I've been using http://www.redditp.com for years, it's great for when you don't need to read the comments. If on mobile, you can simply swipe left or right :)
50656E6973 · 6 years ago
>I swear it's almost like web designers are trying to make things worse.

They are, because the business wants you to download the app.

hombre_fatal · 6 years ago
This kind of clueless, smug cynicism is one of the worst parts of internet comments. It's why basically every comment section on Reddit is a vapid circlejerk.
faissaloo · 6 years ago
Why would they expect me to download an app on my laptop?
Infernal · 6 years ago
Then why provide old.reddit.com?
Data_Junkie · 6 years ago
The amount that the readability of the original Reddit design led to the popularity of Reddit seems to have been completely lost. There were aggregators before Reddit, and they lost out because of dumb design, and now Reddit seeks to follow in their footsteps. Absurd and foolish. No adults in the room.
conanbatt · 6 years ago
Thanks for the old.reddit.com mention. That made my life just plain better.
senectus1 · 6 years ago
yeah, I use a chrome extension that auto adds old. to the front of every reddit URL.

Deleted Comment

pjc50 · 6 years ago
Yes, but I eventually realised what it's optimised for: image posts. For some insane reason they're competing with Instagram and Reddit's co-evolved site Imgur, on which people read comments much less often.

They also really, really want you to use the mobile app, which presumably means it does something privacy-violating.

CamelCaseName · 6 years ago
I think the push to mobile is to increase lock in and engagement, not to gather sensitive data. From my in person discussion with some of the admins, they seemed to genuinely care about privacy.

With regard to the layout, the head of the redesign really emphasized that user choice was important, and that they will never deprecate old.reddit (in fact, they still have .compact from their very early days!). In a way, it makes sense. "Hardcore" users will use RES / old.reddit, while casuals will be pushed to new.reddit, which may be a better fit for them.

My takeaway from talking to them was that, even if I don't believe in their product vision (I hate the app and redesign passionately), I do believe in their team to do the right thing. I hope my trust is well placed.

everdrive · 6 years ago
I think website admins and operators live in a bit of a different world. They may earnestly care about privacy, but I'd bet they're defining privacy differently than users who are concerned about privacy. Further, engagement & lock-in is often bad for users, whether or not privacy is violated.
Crinus · 6 years ago
> casuals will be pushed to new.reddit, which may be a better fit for them.

Why would new.reddit be a better fit for "casuals" when it is worse is pretty much every way?

Accujack · 6 years ago
>For some insane reason they're competing with Instagram and

Reddit's management is driving the site as a business, which means doing things for the purpose of maximizing revenue according to the perception of what's "successful". Facebook is evil but successful at it, Instagram is (was) successful.

The path they see to making money is to try to become the next XXXX, where XXXX is the "successful" social media site of the month.

Reddit was originally driven by user need and the desire for functionality, and innovation and working with the user community helped it grow. Not so anymore.

Ultimately, someone/something has to pay for the resources such a site uses, and finding a working profit model that can keep businesses like Reddit functioning is not easy.

Reddit is a zombie at this point - there's no solid alternative to it, despite what some people seem to think, so there's nowhere for people to go. Once there's another option, Reddit is going to rather quickly become a ghost town.

acoard · 6 years ago
>Once there's another option, Reddit is going to rather quickly become a ghost town.

One can hope, but if Reddit really is taking their lessons from FB then they'll buy up the nascent competition and strangle the market.

flamtap · 6 years ago
In defence of the mobile app, the experience is far, far better. I really like a lot of things about it. It has a lot of polish that makes browsing quite slick.

I do, however, notice that it does tailor the content to you in a way it didn’t before. The “hot” queue used to be the same for everyone viewing the same page. I like to read AskReddit posts, and on my front page I get many AskReddit posts that have very very little activity.

WalterSear · 6 years ago
Image sites are easier to monetize because ad images don't stick out.
everdrive · 6 years ago
>They also really, really want you to use the mobile app, which presumably means it does something privacy-violating.

This is great life advice, and true of almost any app.

notadev · 6 years ago
>It boggles my mind that a redesign could be implemented so poorly on such a popular site.

The irony of this statement is that Reddit _really_ became popular when Digg, who was the top link sharing site at the time, rolled out a new clunky ad-friendly redesign that caused a mass exodus of users to Reddit.

nexuist · 6 years ago
...which makes me wonder if this could ever happen again today, given that all of our data is being pushed into tighter and tighter silos with less integration than ever before (I'll admit Reddit has been better in this regard with its API and abundance of 3rd party clients). It seems like a lot of social networks rely on the network effect more than their actual features, and in the worst case they can just e.g. implement features from other platforms gaining traction (Facebook is infamous for this, stealing circles from G+ and stories from Snapchat).

Reddit usurped Digg because it was technically superior. Could another technically superior website overtake Reddit?

president · 6 years ago
I don't think it could happen today. Reddit has too much critical mass and the community is too diverse. Back then Digg was a smaller and more close-knit community of mostly techies that mostly agreed on the same things. There was a movement a few years ago where some Redditors tried to create a Reddit alternative called Voat, which ultimately failed.
Crinus · 6 years ago
A difference is that Digg didn't keep the old design around. With Reddit you can simply use old.reddit and forget about the redesign while being in the same communities you were already (no need to wait for the entire community to move). Considering that Reddit already has two mobile interfaces (i.reddit.com - which i personally prefer due to it being very fast - and m.reddit.com) and two desktop interfaces, i doubt they'll drop old.reddit at any point.

It is a form of backwards compatibility on a UX level.

taurath · 6 years ago
The thing about the network effect is sometimes the network decides to leave. MySpace flowed all into Facebook just as digg flowed into Reddit. The companies have been spending lots and lots of money to build a moat but as they make money they do the things that makes other platforms seem more attractive.
wazoox · 6 years ago
The new design is slow as mollasses. It's ugly. It doesn't provide direct access to both the shared link and comments. Managing text formatting is slow and painful. The only positive point is the Ctrl+enter shortcut to post comments. I always use old.reddit.com.
hrunt · 6 years ago
This is the first HN comment I have seen that actually describes what about the new design makes it unusable. Most that I have seen are "The new design is unusable! Everyone agrees with me! I use old.reddit.com and do not use the new design!" A few comments point out that nothing loads without errors, but that's not a design problem -- that's an implementation problem.

With that said, I am throwing my hat into the "I disagree" camp. I do not find the new design unusable. It is not slow for me (American cable ISP, Firefox browser, uBlock Origin enabled, JavaScript enabled). My experience is just as fast as the old design. I have direct access to both the shared link and comments (the title now goes to the comments and the shared link is the orange link to the right of the title). I admit I did have to retrain my brain to the new design's conversation-focused design vs. remote-link-focused design, but that took all of a week. I do not have any slowness managing text formatting, but then, I do not comment a lot and I do not write long comments. I appreciate that the new design, on most subreddits, appears cleaner and the information, for me, is more clearly laid out. To me, the site appears "prettier." With the ad-blocker on, some of the sidebar ads get blocked. I do not know how that impacts my experience.

I have also not experienced any of the page loading errors that people have described. Not once, unless it was a known outage causing the Internet to collectively scream.

I am mostly a reader on reddit. I visit my subreddits twice a day, during what are probably peak usage times in North America.

wazoox · 6 years ago
I just checked, opened https://old.reddit.com/r/france : less than 2 seconds, the page is fully loaded.

Tried https://www.reddit.com/r/france/: more than 4 seconds before the page is loaded.

Loading : https://old.reddit.com/r/france/comments/ccs5tx/emmanuel_mac...

is about 2 seconds. Loading: https://www.reddit.com/r/france/comments/ccs5tx/emmanuel_mac...

about 6 seconds.

The new reddit looks therefore 2 to 3 times slower.

non-entity · 6 years ago
I am not a fan of their redesign, but I don't use reddit in a browser enough anymore to complain, in fairness. I can, however describe how painfully unusable the app they harass you to install is.
CriticalCathed · 6 years ago
I moderate one of the "default" subreddits so I have a rarer perspective than most. I can see the traffic of a subreddit that most users see daily.

There are almost 3 times more people using the redesign and the official reddit app together than the old site. However, engagement (number of page views per unique IP) is half or less of the old desktop or third party app.

So the new styles (cards, content focused) have more unique users overall, but those users engage less with the content.

There may be other reasons for this -- but to me it makes sense. The redesigns are harder to use and make reddit less addictive. You simply see a smaller volume of content and can't interact with it as well. But hey, it's a modern looking website I guess.

bonniemuffin · 6 years ago
This finding seems confounded by biased populations: "engagement (number of page views per unique IP) is half or less of the old desktop or third party app".

I would expect that only the most engaged users would be using old desktop or third party app, since those are much harder to find and require much more effort (such as digging through settings, or investigating other app options). The less engaged, casual users would be using the default options (new web or default mobile app) because they're much easier to find.

Therefore I propose the causation goes the opposite direction of what you're suggesting: it's not that old web/3rd party app cause users to be more engaged, but rather that being highly engaged causes users to use old web/3rd party app.

bob_theslob646 · 6 years ago
>There are almost 3 times more people using the redesign and the official reddit app together than the old site. However, engagement (number of page views per unique IP) is half or less of the old desktop or third party app

I am confused at what you mean by engagement.

Is that three times more users by unique ip?

Overall, are their more unique users or less?

hardmaru · 6 years ago
I can't stand the new reddit. I always browse the site with https://old.reddit.com/

Just replace www with old.

superkuh · 6 years ago
old.reddit.com is okay, but it now requires the temp whitelisting of 2 or sometimes 3 javascript domains. Not just reddit.com like was required in the past. Given that, it's just easier to use the ceddit.com javascript interface to pull from the API and get the actual old reddit experience.

But even worse than the redesign is the new corporate culture of censorship. I left after they banned r/gundeals. They're boiling the frog over there. Nowadays I mostly use RSS feeds and if I want to talk about something I post on the notabug forums (federated+p2p capable).

mayniac · 6 years ago
I hadn't seen notabug before. Visited the site and this was the current top post (censored by me):

"Should I complain about a nXXXXr cashier braying like a donkey?"

That's not a great first impression...

As a side note, anyone know how to do multiple asterisks on HN? Backslash doesn't seem to work as an escape character.

jimhefferon · 6 years ago
Me too, but you must know that they will turn it off at some point.
myhf · 6 years ago
Why? thesixtyone.com never turned off their "old" subdomain
fernandotakai · 6 years ago
i wonder if someone will replicate the old reddit using reddit's api. i mean, there are full featured mobile clients, i wonder if the api licensing would allow it.
plorkyeran · 6 years ago
i.reddit.com is dramatically older and is still there.

There's no need to ever turn it off. New users will overwhelmingly use the new design (if they don't think it's fine, how would they ever become engaged enough to even find out that there's a different option?) and eventually it's just something that makes some long-time power users happy and everyone else doesn't care about.

imglorp · 6 years ago
Anyone know if they have public metrics on www vs old visitor traffic?
joelthelion · 6 years ago
I think I'll just stop regularly browsing reddit at that point. Hopefully tildes will have grown enough by then.
joelthelion · 6 years ago
Note that there are browser extensions that automate this, for both old and compact on mobile.
cylinder714 · 6 years ago
If you're on a mobile device, try appending ".compact" to the URL to get the old mobile version. For example, "https://www.reddit.com/r/cooking/.compact"
zokier · 6 years ago
cylinder714 · 6 years ago
Even better!
HNLurker2 · 6 years ago
We can make a bookmarklet that does that.

    javascript:window.location =".compact"